Is the sport getting too soft?

Richy
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10/26/2022 12:34pm
I don't get how people are ok with the Osborne/Savatgy pass, it was almost a great going-all-in move, but it was just a bit too far / went in a bit too hard to be ok imo, but it is what it is and I'm not gonna whine about ancient history. Osborne took his chance, got his championship and if they said it was fine then it was fine, and my opinion is wrong, but it's still my opinion.
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Tumic
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10/26/2022 12:39pm
Richy wrote:
I don't get how people are ok with the Osborne/Savatgy pass, it was almost a great going-all-in move, but it was just a bit too far...
I don't get how people are ok with the Osborne/Savatgy pass, it was almost a great going-all-in move, but it was just a bit too far / went in a bit too hard to be ok imo, but it is what it is and I'm not gonna whine about ancient history. Osborne took his chance, got his championship and if they said it was fine then it was fine, and my opinion is wrong, but it's still my opinion.
Yet he got fined for that takeout.

The wierd thing is why a pass should be okay in the last race and not all other races through the season..

It’s like people here think that they should throw away the rulebook and go by prison rules the last race just because ”it’s for the title”, i really don’t get it, and thankfully neither do the title contenders now days.
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blockhead17
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10/26/2022 2:31pm
Richy wrote:
I don't get how people are ok with the Osborne/Savatgy pass, it was almost a great going-all-in move, but it was just a bit too far...
I don't get how people are ok with the Osborne/Savatgy pass, it was almost a great going-all-in move, but it was just a bit too far / went in a bit too hard to be ok imo, but it is what it is and I'm not gonna whine about ancient history. Osborne took his chance, got his championship and if they said it was fine then it was fine, and my opinion is wrong, but it's still my opinion.
I hear what u are saying..
but go watch any 04-08 race, Chad Ricky and James were doing that to each other over an individual race win, they just didn’t want to come second.
Osborne’s pass on savatgy was brutal.. but it’s for a damn title..
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Richy
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10/26/2022 2:40pm
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting stuff, having a handful of guys who were THAT damn committed. True legends.

At the same time, I can't recall too much that was intentionally way beyond a respectable sporting effort or egregiously dirty... Thought that may be my crapped out memory, I've hit my head a LOT as I'm sure you can tell 😂
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The Shop

Roczoff
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10/26/2022 8:56pm
People speculate that Vince has big bonuses in his contract because prior MCR riders have said that's how the team likes to do it, lower salary with generous bonuses.

But, really, isn't it soft to not use any means necessary to win a title? Kill someone yourself or pay a hit man... you like the first, but hate the second?

There's figure-eight and demo derby for those who want smash-'em-up sports. SX is going to remain the Hockey of motorsports unless it adopts cleaner racing and broadens its appeal to a more civilized crowd.

Last week was hilarious, as all of NASCAR fandom, the same ones who constantly decry the demise of the Alpha male and the wussification of America were shocked, horrified, and outraged when the black guy acted like so many of their favorite drivers did back when men were men and flags in the infield were Confederate.
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olds cool
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10/26/2022 8:57pm
ML512 wrote:
What do you classify as a “shit ton of money”?
…and since it was an international race across the pond, was it a metric ton or a US ton? We need specifics here! Silly
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10/26/2022 10:48pm
Get outta here with your ‘uphill both ways in the snow’ bullshit. This sport still hard as fuck.
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1911
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10/26/2022 11:33pm
Sport? Don’t know. Some people on Vital, soft and getting softer.
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10/27/2022 2:13am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 2:22am
Yes. This sport is not for the feint of heart. Everybody always talks about Bradshaw, Matesevich, Cooper, Hannah, etc era with them being such badasses because they would do what it took to win. Someone above mentioned how dirty Osbourne was taking out Savatgy to win the title and a nice payday? F'n I would've done the same thing for the bonus check. Funny how it was so cool in the 80's to have guys clean eachother out, but now "omg did you see that?" He needs to be suspended for the year. Is their an actual truthful statement that Vince offered that 2k? Either way if the racing is so disturbing to you go buy some golf clubs or hit the local winery with your chick if you sackless guys have one. It's racing and sometimes it gets dirty. That's why I love it, just like the NFL. Everyone in those sports know the consequences and still go all in. The rest of the pu$$ys can can go play golf, softball, on line gaming or even come to vitalmx to cry about a sport they never competed in.
https://youtu.be/aKjLFCKjLsg
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10/27/2022 6:09am
i think western civilization is collapsing right in front of our eyes

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ccullins
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10/27/2022 7:17am
The difference between Vince and all the other guys who have ridden aggressively over the years is those guys are being aggressive, taking guys out or whatever while they are moving forward trying to pass guys. Vince is taking guys out while he’s getting passed and moving backwards.
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tomlopez
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Fantasy
10/27/2022 8:15am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 8:17am
To the people that respond to every Friese incident with the old line "rubbing is racing", let me ask you this: would you truthfully rather watch a full season of non-contenders like Friese cross-jumping and taking out riders who are battling for wins every weekend, or would you rather watch a season of two of the fastest dudes in the world pushing their bodies and bikes to the limits every week in an effort to gain the slightest advantage in order to earn every point possible, such as the moto season we just witnessed between Tomac and Sexton?

I get so tired of hearing people act like racing isn't fun or interesting unless there's a cleanout occurring every 2 minutes. If you truly don't get your kicks from watching straight-up racing decided by skill and fitness, then I believe moto is not the sport for you and WWE might be more up your alley.

I am not saying aggression isn't a vital part of the sport. But I don't have much respect for riders who have built a reputation off of committing borderline dangerous moves on riders who are almost always faster than them.
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early
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10/27/2022 8:27am
If I was the guy that spent $50 million on the WSX series and the main talking point of its first year isn't KR winning the championship but a shady $2K hit job on a team mate I might be a little pissed.
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lestat
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10/27/2022 8:48am
early wrote:
If I was the guy that spent $50 million on the WSX series and the main talking point of its first year isn't KR winning the...
If I was the guy that spent $50 million on the WSX series and the main talking point of its first year isn't KR winning the championship but a shady $2K hit job on a team mate I might be a little pissed.
A legit sport or a circus sideshow … which will they choose … 🍿
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Tumic
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10/29/2022 1:44pm
tomlopez wrote:
To the people that respond to every Friese incident with the old line "rubbing is racing", let me ask you this: would you truthfully rather watch...
To the people that respond to every Friese incident with the old line "rubbing is racing", let me ask you this: would you truthfully rather watch a full season of non-contenders like Friese cross-jumping and taking out riders who are battling for wins every weekend, or would you rather watch a season of two of the fastest dudes in the world pushing their bodies and bikes to the limits every week in an effort to gain the slightest advantage in order to earn every point possible, such as the moto season we just witnessed between Tomac and Sexton?

I get so tired of hearing people act like racing isn't fun or interesting unless there's a cleanout occurring every 2 minutes. If you truly don't get your kicks from watching straight-up racing decided by skill and fitness, then I believe moto is not the sport for you and WWE might be more up your alley.

I am not saying aggression isn't a vital part of the sport. But I don't have much respect for riders who have built a reputation off of committing borderline dangerous moves on riders who are almost always faster than them.
This.

When your skill and speed don’t cut it to win any more i have a hard time to see it as a strenght to clean a rider out to gain a position.

It’s called racing, and then i expect the riders to race, and if you lack the speed, go home and practice. Don’t turn racing in to something else.
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Gravel
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10/29/2022 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 10/29/2022 2:53pm
Yes. This sport is not for the feint of heart. Everybody always talks about Bradshaw, Matesevich, Cooper, Hannah, etc era with them being such badasses because...
Yes. This sport is not for the feint of heart. Everybody always talks about Bradshaw, Matesevich, Cooper, Hannah, etc era with them being such badasses because they would do what it took to win. Someone above mentioned how dirty Osbourne was taking out Savatgy to win the title and a nice payday? F'n I would've done the same thing for the bonus check. Funny how it was so cool in the 80's to have guys clean eachother out, but now "omg did you see that?" He needs to be suspended for the year. Is their an actual truthful statement that Vince offered that 2k? Either way if the racing is so disturbing to you go buy some golf clubs or hit the local winery with your chick if you sackless guys have one. It's racing and sometimes it gets dirty. That's why I love it, just like the NFL. Everyone in those sports know the consequences and still go all in. The rest of the pu$$ys can can go play golf, softball, on line gaming or even come to vitalmx to cry about a sport they never competed in.
https://youtu.be/aKjLFCKjLsg
Friese has never been in a race long battle like that, ever. Ever. Friese is more of the “desperate cross jump a guy who’s catching you before he gets by and pulls away” rider.

Tonya Harding is VFs style, not James or Ricky. Pay someone else to do your dirty work..
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brimx153
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10/29/2022 5:45pm
My problem with all of it is , I am fine with people who find what vince did as terrible . And I am fine with people who think all s goes last race of a championship. But I can't stand people who want Vince banned now
But the favourite rider was Bradshaw .
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10/30/2022 2:49am
Gravel wrote:
Friese has never been in a race long battle like that, ever. Ever. Friese is more of the “desperate cross jump a guy who’s catching you...
Friese has never been in a race long battle like that, ever. Ever. Friese is more of the “desperate cross jump a guy who’s catching you before he gets by and pulls away” rider.

Tonya Harding is VFs style, not James or Ricky. Pay someone else to do your dirty work..
He was going for the World Supercross Title. Their was a nice bonus for winning it and the races were basically heat races at a regular sx. He had his reasons. Also has the 2k pay off been confirmed?
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11/1/2022 12:27am
Richy wrote:
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting...
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting stuff, having a handful of guys who were THAT damn committed. True legends.

At the same time, I can't recall too much that was intentionally way beyond a respectable sporting effort or egregiously dirty... Thought that may be my crapped out memory, I've hit my head a LOT as I'm sure you can tell 😂
True. Reed made a career off of Bubba and Ricky not being able to line up every race and him being the 3rd fastest of the 3. In my eyes he was the 4th fastest after Windham, but he definetly benefitted from Bubba and RC being hurt for race wins and titles. He was not even close to their levels of speed.
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CPR
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11/1/2022 12:44am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2022 12:47am
Richy wrote:
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting...
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting stuff, having a handful of guys who were THAT damn committed. True legends.

At the same time, I can't recall too much that was intentionally way beyond a respectable sporting effort or egregiously dirty... Thought that may be my crapped out memory, I've hit my head a LOT as I'm sure you can tell 😂
True. Reed made a career off of Bubba and Ricky not being able to line up every race and him being the 3rd fastest of the...
True. Reed made a career off of Bubba and Ricky not being able to line up every race and him being the 3rd fastest of the 3. In my eyes he was the 4th fastest after Windham, but he definetly benefitted from Bubba and RC being hurt for race wins and titles. He was not even close to their levels of speed.
I’ll take the bait- well how do you explain the days where Reed beat them straight up?

Easy answer in my opinion, Stew and RC were faster more days than Reed was faster than them, however there were weeks, seasons, when he was right there and on the odd occasion he was better.
But saying Reed was not even close to their level is ridiculous.
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Richy
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11/1/2022 1:15am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2022 2:54am
Yeah that maybe a tad harsh, I get what you're saying NorCal and fair play on however you see it 👍

To me, yeah it's not an apples to apples comparison, but the RC/JS/CR times were kind of a this season Tomac and Sexton deal, with them out front with Roczen and Anderson having the pace on their good day but either having raceday struggles or just something being a little off. They didn't quite get it together but were still legit fast dudes when things lined up for them.
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ATKpilot99
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11/1/2022 10:17am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2022 11:21am
Richy wrote:
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting...
Same my man, I agree the mid 2000's were pretty gnarly and I can recall a lot of hard fought battles, it was impressive and exciting stuff, having a handful of guys who were THAT damn committed. True legends.

At the same time, I can't recall too much that was intentionally way beyond a respectable sporting effort or egregiously dirty... Thought that may be my crapped out memory, I've hit my head a LOT as I'm sure you can tell 😂
True. Reed made a career off of Bubba and Ricky not being able to line up every race and him being the 3rd fastest of the...
True. Reed made a career off of Bubba and Ricky not being able to line up every race and him being the 3rd fastest of the 3. In my eyes he was the 4th fastest after Windham, but he definetly benefitted from Bubba and RC being hurt for race wins and titles. He was not even close to their levels of speed.
CPR wrote:
I’ll take the bait- well how do you explain the days where Reed beat them straight up? Easy answer in my opinion, Stew and RC were...
I’ll take the bait- well how do you explain the days where Reed beat them straight up?

Easy answer in my opinion, Stew and RC were faster more days than Reed was faster than them, however there were weeks, seasons, when he was right there and on the odd occasion he was better.
But saying Reed was not even close to their level is ridiculous.
Outdoors he really wasn't
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Porch32
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11/1/2022 10:53am
brimx153 wrote:
My problem with all of it is , I am fine with people who find what vince did as terrible . And I am fine with...
My problem with all of it is , I am fine with people who find what vince did as terrible . And I am fine with people who think all s goes last race of a championship. But I can't stand people who want Vince banned now
But the favourite rider was Bradshaw .
Comparing Vince and his situation to Bradshaw is apples to oranges. If Vince was legitimately fast enough to be a REAL title contender, then so be it. But he's not. He's not a real title contender but he cleans people out like he is, and bottom line its a clean out for no reason. That's the issue with Vince in my head. The only way he can get what he is going for is if he cleans these dudes up and they DNF. You can't say that about any of these other dudes who have aggressive characteristics... at least they do it while they're racing forward.
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brimx153
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11/1/2022 3:25pm
brimx153 wrote:
My problem with all of it is , I am fine with people who find what vince did as terrible . And I am fine with...
My problem with all of it is , I am fine with people who find what vince did as terrible . And I am fine with people who think all s goes last race of a championship. But I can't stand people who want Vince banned now
But the favourite rider was Bradshaw .
Porch32 wrote:
Comparing Vince and his situation to Bradshaw is apples to oranges. If Vince was legitimately fast enough to be a REAL title contender, then so be...
Comparing Vince and his situation to Bradshaw is apples to oranges. If Vince was legitimately fast enough to be a REAL title contender, then so be it. But he's not. He's not a real title contender but he cleans people out like he is, and bottom line its a clean out for no reason. That's the issue with Vince in my head. The only way he can get what he is going for is if he cleans these dudes up and they DNF. You can't say that about any of these other dudes who have aggressive characteristics... at least they do it while they're racing forward.
He was leading the ' world SX championship' going into the last race . You can't say he is not a legitimate . Fine if it was ama Supercross . I agree . Bradshaw did some serious dirty stuff when he raced . So did a good few riders from that time. As I say If you think all s fair in love and war ,grand . But don't be like Vince needs to be banned , I love riders like Bradshaw, Hannah , barica .etc .
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Porch32
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11/2/2022 6:34am
brimx153 wrote:
He was leading the ' world SX championship' going into the last race . You can't say he is not a legitimate . Fine if it...
He was leading the ' world SX championship' going into the last race . You can't say he is not a legitimate . Fine if it was ama Supercross . I agree . Bradshaw did some serious dirty stuff when he raced . So did a good few riders from that time. As I say If you think all s fair in love and war ,grand . But don't be like Vince needs to be banned , I love riders like Bradshaw, Hannah , barica .etc .
Idk I disagree man. We can say he was "leading the world SX championship" but come on it's 2 races. Is Vince a legitimate fast pro with skill, yes he is I'm not denying that. But he's not a real title contender. Only real shot at a "title" he's had is in a 2 race series. I'd put money down saying in next year's 8 race championship or however many, he is nowhere near title contention coming into the last race.
I am not saying the AMA needs to ban him, but I do think something needs to be done. Also for the record, my problem isn't with the move itself. I loved the Osborne / Savatgy incident and anything similar within reason (no crossjumping etc.) when it's for the title. My problem is with the 2k offer to Harlan. Real title contenders don't do that shit.
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brimx153
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11/2/2022 3:38pm
brimx153 wrote:
He was leading the ' world SX championship' going into the last race . You can't say he is not a legitimate . Fine if it...
He was leading the ' world SX championship' going into the last race . You can't say he is not a legitimate . Fine if it was ama Supercross . I agree . Bradshaw did some serious dirty stuff when he raced . So did a good few riders from that time. As I say If you think all s fair in love and war ,grand . But don't be like Vince needs to be banned , I love riders like Bradshaw, Hannah , barica .etc .
Porch32 wrote:
Idk I disagree man. We can say he was "leading the world SX championship" but come on it's 2 races. Is Vince a legitimate fast pro...
Idk I disagree man. We can say he was "leading the world SX championship" but come on it's 2 races. Is Vince a legitimate fast pro with skill, yes he is I'm not denying that. But he's not a real title contender. Only real shot at a "title" he's had is in a 2 race series. I'd put money down saying in next year's 8 race championship or however many, he is nowhere near title contention coming into the last race.
I am not saying the AMA needs to ban him, but I do think something needs to be done. Also for the record, my problem isn't with the move itself. I loved the Osborne / Savatgy incident and anything similar within reason (no crossjumping etc.) when it's for the title. My problem is with the 2k offer to Harlan. Real title contenders don't do that shit.
I agree in the ama ,unless some riders go out in the 250 f class . He is not going to be near the championship . The bounty thing is really bad ,if they can prove it . Not saying his mechanic did nt say it . But it's such a weird thing to do . The chances of Harlan being anywhere near brayton to even take him out is soooo slim . And it s not even a long race to where u could say wait until you are getting lapped . Cause there where very little lapped riders . Weather Vince was serious or not ,it is kind of impossible to prove . If he offered JS17 , 2 k I think this would be more serious for him. He had the speed to actually run with brayton . Vince will just say it was a joke . It's not like they gave harlan the money up front.
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