Posts
2575
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
League City, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time
8/19/2022 3:43pm
Will there be any new or lessor know manufacturers make a splash in Motocross, off road etc.
I was at the KTM, Kawasaki dealer down the road from me a couple of weeks back. It’s a large dealer with large showroom, lots of SxS’s and ATV’s too.. As I was walking out I asked the sales guy what brand are these ATV’s. He said CFMoto ( I think that was the brand he said) and He said I more of them than anything on the floor. He said they are Chinese. I said are they that much cheaper, he said no not really, just that much better. At first glance they did look good Chinese or not. They doesn’t mean I would buy one but they were impressive at first glance.
When I left it made me think, will the Chinese make a splash in the two wheel off-road market. They have the technology. Same for others, US, Europeans and India too. I have a Mahindra tractor that’s made here in the US but the 50 HP Engine is all Mahindra and it’s rock solid. Mahindra sells a lot of good tractors here in the US. I would think India could gin up something quality.
What do you guys think, will see any new brands in the future or lessor known raise their heads. I’m not well informed, just curious.
Thanks Billy
I was at the KTM, Kawasaki dealer down the road from me a couple of weeks back. It’s a large dealer with large showroom, lots of SxS’s and ATV’s too.. As I was walking out I asked the sales guy what brand are these ATV’s. He said CFMoto ( I think that was the brand he said) and He said I more of them than anything on the floor. He said they are Chinese. I said are they that much cheaper, he said no not really, just that much better. At first glance they did look good Chinese or not. They doesn’t mean I would buy one but they were impressive at first glance.
When I left it made me think, will the Chinese make a splash in the two wheel off-road market. They have the technology. Same for others, US, Europeans and India too. I have a Mahindra tractor that’s made here in the US but the 50 HP Engine is all Mahindra and it’s rock solid. Mahindra sells a lot of good tractors here in the US. I would think India could gin up something quality.
What do you guys think, will see any new brands in the future or lessor known raise their heads. I’m not well informed, just curious.
Thanks Billy
They sale because they are cheap and attract casual customers. Or dad's who aren't sure they wanna commit on their kid who is only mildly into the sport. Or those who don't know better and like the price.
Chinese brands don't innovate they just copy as cheaply as possible. They are selling old tech bikes wrapped in what looks like a more modern package.
I don’t think they’ll make a huge impact to the main brands, but may attract people who just want to dip their toe in to see if motorcycles/atvs are their thing.
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They bought the rights to the 1000cc V Twins, at least intially - they've now got higher capacity V Twins in their line.
I think much the same with the 790 Parallel Twin engine.
And, I'm not 100% sure, CF Moto may actually make the 790 / 890 engine for KTM?
CF Moto are a relatively small Chinese manufacturer, by the Behemoth size of some other Chines brands, that many of us have never heard of.
Many manufacturers have deals with Chinese and Indian, and other country companies to make engines / other components through to entire bikes for them. And, of course, many have their own Facilities in countries other than those of the manufacturers origins. It's been going on for many years now, and is accelerating. Piaggio ( Aprilia and Vespa, just 2 two of the brands Piaggio own) , BMW, The KTM group, Triumph , Ducati, HD, and of course every Japanese manufacturer do this.
I travel to Thailand every now and then to work for one of those brands.
Cripes, the amount of companies in China making Twins based on the Kawasaki 650 (and they've gone bigger in capacity than that) engine , seems to be damned near Legion.........
Bajaj work with both KTM and Triumph. BMW with TVS. TVS - or at least their massive, Massive (Mahindra, I think, or at least ITs parent company) parent company - own BSA.
Then, you have the European brand Names that have been bought by Chinese ( Benelli, as just 1 example) and Indian companies ( Jawa, Norton, BSA ) .
Weren't the '78 / 70 / 80 CRs made, or at least PKD'd / CKD'd in the USA? - And the Goldwings of that era?
It's a diverse, intertwined World out there. It can make ones head spin.
The MT150 Yamaha, is just an absolute Hoot. So trick looking, with a 150 /155cc water cooled, EFi, Variable Valve timing ball of FUN engine. The perfect get around in style bike, that has no problem keeping up , well, easily waxing most City / Town traffic.
Each time I go over to Asia / India, I want to self export / import a bundle of different bikes, that just can't be got, in "The West''. I'm trying to work out a 'contra deal' with a manufacturer for one of their bikes (full sized) instead of $$$, the next time I go, but, it presents a few too many problems.
CFMOTO does have rights from KTM to build the 790 engine for their own bikes though. Funny enough, the CFMOTO built engines make less power. Guess it's that Chinese quality showing through.
Around here folks live the rural life and most of them they sell get used quite a bit, word on the street is that the CF Moto are good machines.
I'm eyeing up an SSR for my Boys next bike. I know quite a few folks that have SSR bikes in various sizes and really like them, they have full spare parts available so I'm gonna give it a shot.
Also....my Boys TTR 50 says "Made in China" right on it....it's the biggest piece of shit Yamaha I've ever owned, pretty sure they bought their bolts the same place Ikea does. It's seized once already and another time was blowing smoke like a 2 stroke so I've been lucky enough to do 2 top ends on less than a year of riding....Gotta love that Japanese quality right? Oh wait.....
My friend had a nsr150sp vs my tzm it was a let down. Everytime the tzm would just gap the poor nsr no matter who was riding it. It had more power than the nsr. In Malaysia the tzm became the most popular of the 150's they called it the highway star.
Rieju has a deal with Minarelli for 50cc 2T motors, so they seem ripe for a 50cc MX bike and why not a 65, an 85 and then a 125??
Hell, I want this just to rip around town...
As for SWM, their 500 Dual Sport makes more power than the KTM... It sure seems like they could step in to Enduro/MX if they wanted to.
In the mean time, they are cornering the market on all the resources that other manufacturing countries need to produce products and goods. All this results in is a race to the bottom in quality and eventually higher prices.
It will be a cold day in Hell before I buy any Chinese manufactured motorized vehicle.
Pit Row
Be interesting what Triumph ends up doing.
No, it's quite simple i'm not going to spend my money on it and based how few TMs i see around i'm guessing the majority of the mx market isnt.
What i would be interested in is a reliable and quality product that is simply way lower priced. I am willing to give in a lot on performance of the bike (not rideability), since i am not even close to using most of the bikes capabilities anyway.
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