Stark Varg Reviews

whethefakawe wrote:

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at...

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at others who bring up PRACTICAL questions about new technologies based on personal knowledge, education and experience.

I make a living as a heavy equipment operator of VERY expensive machines, and my skepticism about new and immature technologies is based on self-preservation. More complicated than an e-dirtbike, but the principles are the same.

Ever hear that old warning "don't buy anything V1.0"?

Interesting and hilarious comments, and some high-level expert input so far. Some PRACTICAL questions that need to be answered before I will join the herd:

1) "Zero maintenance".
The Varg uses KYB suspension, just like Yamahas, Betas, and a few others. Did KYB invent a new type of magical suspension that doesn't need oil, fork seals, springs, O-rings, air valves etc? How about the chassis? Swingarm bearings machined from unicorn bone that doesn't need grease? Steering head bearings made from self-lubricating unobtanium ? How about the wheel bearings? Tyres don't wear or flatten? Spokes don't go loose? Rims don't bend from 3-story landings? Chains don't stretch? Sprockets don't wear? Guess them handlebars don't bend when you ragdoll over a big triple, eh? Grips made from soft Teflon? All that because the motor doesn't burn premix?
Just because you don't have to do top ends like on a 125cc 2T, doesn't mean it's "zero maintenance", ya dunce.

2) Range.
Probably the #1 concern, as with......Teslas, ePorsches, eBMWs etc. In cities (or on MX tracks) not an issue, an electricity source is probably close by. Baja? Haha.
This topic has been beaten to death and will continue to be, so I'm not wasting bandwidth on it.
"Storage" technology ie. BATTERIES lags far behind generating technology, ask any expert.

3) Cost.
Geez......I thought it might be $12K. From what people have posted, closer to 15K? Dirtbiking started a death spiral when 4T took over (ask anybody who's been in the industry for that long) because of the COST. Now it's jumping from 10K to 15K? Good luck wi' dat!
Ask DB, MXA, anybody you want.........the sport has been sustained for the last 20 years by the geezer riders who can afford to spend that much on toys. I have 14 dirtbikes from 1978-2020, I spend lotsa $$ on them........but I refuse to pay 15K for one. Wanna bet how many other geezers feel the same?
If ya haven't figured it out, the dirtbike industry is 100% dependent on bike sales (+aftermarket, gear, fuel, parts etc), having 100K more iphone babies WATCHING won't sustain it.

4) "Save the planet".
Sure.........visualize (auralize?) 500 or 800 generators at Glen Helen every Saturday, all day.........but at least the bikes are silent
Minerals and resources.........someone posted an explanation of volume of dirt moved to produce one ton of XYZ ore. My father and brother are/were engineers in the gold mining industry, and the numbers are RIDICULOUS. Literally 1000s of tons of rock dug out of the earth to produce ONE OUNCE of gold. The precious metals used to make these batteries, not much difference. Not to mention, there's not NEARLY as much of it as gold or silver or coal.....not enough to go around, considering there will be 10 BILLION EVs on the road by 2030 OK then.
Dead batteries, what happens to them? It's NASTY hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out with the vegetable peels and beer cans. DEAFENING silence on that topic, NOBODY wants to discuss it. Why?

5) Riding area conflicts.
MX tracks? No worries. They put peewees and 85s on the track with Tomac and da boyz at Glen Helen, I'm sure it will work itself out
New tracks? If you're in an area where tracks are shut down because of noise, the property value is such that 50 or 200 open acres to build a track, you're talking $$MILLIONS. It's similar to airports in that regard. Don't plan on it
Trails and MTB parks? Lots of conflicts between hikers and equestrians vs. eMTBers already. That will only escalate as dumbasses reckon "hey this thing is silent, I can ride anywhere". Result? BANNED.

6) Startup company.
ATK, Cannondale, Buell, Husaberg, Cooper, Yankee, Venti, Titan, Roehr...........and Alta. Look 'em up, 'nuff said.

7) Gen Z
The iphone fecesbook generation, look all around you. Their children will have one square eye in the middle of the forehead and flippers with a single pointy finger. Evolution, baby! Watching instead of partaking in anything physical.
Witness the comments about "can't wait for the 2T and 4T sound to be gone so I can talk on my phone" while WATCHING others ride, not riding themselves, ie. didn't buy a bike of any kind. Gimme sum LIKES bro..........

8) Electrical infrastructure and supply.
"Chargers at MX tracks"
Ya sure, stand by, we'll lay a 12-inch cable 130 miles to the new track in Death Valley that gets 96 visitors a year.
Glen Helen? Perris? More feasible, but don't forget, the Great Police State of Kaliforniya is having rolling blackouts like in Zimbabwe and Congo for lack of generating capacity and obsolete crumbling infrastructure. I'm sure installing chargers at MX tracks is a top priority, CALPOWER will be there next week with bulldozers and shit

9) SBD.
"Silent but deadly".
I sat at sidewalk cafes in a certain European city known for its wines and cheese last summer, watching idiots with obviously NO bike experience zip down sidewalks and through traffic at 30 mph, having a grand old time. I almost got taken out by one such dipshit, he almost hit me full-on but I jumped and he only hit my arm. I wanted to beat his small brain in, but couldn't catch him.
It's the new IN thing.....free communal e-scooters, they're all over almost every US city. (Most are f**ked up by vandals and bums, but hey, it's only tax money, right?) Friend of mine was killed on that ridiculously powerful one that came out about 2 years ago, he crashed without a helmet and smashed his noggin.
Remember ATVs? those 3-wheeler things that sucked kids' legs under the wheels? They were BANNED after a few deaths. Wait till some pimple farmer kills a geezer hiker on a trail in a city park, or runs over someone's 3-year old.............


Like with EVs and self-driving vehicles, there are many insurmountable obstacles. In cities and densely populated areas, they're an excellent idea and 100% practical. Outside cities or in rural areas? Useless. How about in Africa, or Russia?

As a silent backyard racer? Hundreds mate. As long as you don't have 30 of your pals over on Sundays and have races and drink beer and play Metallica loud, of course.

I'm hoping the noisy iphone hype will give way to practical reasonable attitudes at some point. EVs can't and won't replace ICE any time soon, no matter what the TV says. But I fear ebikes will split the already small dirtbike crowd into even more factions, easily isolated and stomped out by government and green nazis.

Luckily I won't be around, or interested, if/when all dirtbiking is 100% silent....ie, extinct.

whethefakawe wrote:

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at...

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at others who bring up PRACTICAL questions about new technologies based on personal knowledge, education and experience.

I make a living as a heavy equipment operator of VERY expensive machines, and my skepticism about new and immature technologies is based on self-preservation. More complicated than an e-dirtbike, but the principles are the same.

Ever hear that old warning "don't buy anything V1.0"?

Interesting and hilarious comments, and some high-level expert input so far. Some PRACTICAL questions that need to be answered before I will join the herd:

1) "Zero maintenance".
The Varg uses KYB suspension, just like Yamahas, Betas, and a few others. Did KYB invent a new type of magical suspension that doesn't need oil, fork seals, springs, O-rings, air valves etc? How about the chassis? Swingarm bearings machined from unicorn bone that doesn't need grease? Steering head bearings made from self-lubricating unobtanium ? How about the wheel bearings? Tyres don't wear or flatten? Spokes don't go loose? Rims don't bend from 3-story landings? Chains don't stretch? Sprockets don't wear? Guess them handlebars don't bend when you ragdoll over a big triple, eh? Grips made from soft Teflon? All that because the motor doesn't burn premix?
Just because you don't have to do top ends like on a 125cc 2T, doesn't mean it's "zero maintenance", ya dunce.

2) Range.
Probably the #1 concern, as with......Teslas, ePorsches, eBMWs etc. In cities (or on MX tracks) not an issue, an electricity source is probably close by. Baja? Haha.
This topic has been beaten to death and will continue to be, so I'm not wasting bandwidth on it.
"Storage" technology ie. BATTERIES lags far behind generating technology, ask any expert.

3) Cost.
Geez......I thought it might be $12K. From what people have posted, closer to 15K? Dirtbiking started a death spiral when 4T took over (ask anybody who's been in the industry for that long) because of the COST. Now it's jumping from 10K to 15K? Good luck wi' dat!
Ask DB, MXA, anybody you want.........the sport has been sustained for the last 20 years by the geezer riders who can afford to spend that much on toys. I have 14 dirtbikes from 1978-2020, I spend lotsa $$ on them........but I refuse to pay 15K for one. Wanna bet how many other geezers feel the same?
If ya haven't figured it out, the dirtbike industry is 100% dependent on bike sales (+aftermarket, gear, fuel, parts etc), having 100K more iphone babies WATCHING won't sustain it.

4) "Save the planet".
Sure.........visualize (auralize?) 500 or 800 generators at Glen Helen every Saturday, all day.........but at least the bikes are silent
Minerals and resources.........someone posted an explanation of volume of dirt moved to produce one ton of XYZ ore. My father and brother are/were engineers in the gold mining industry, and the numbers are RIDICULOUS. Literally 1000s of tons of rock dug out of the earth to produce ONE OUNCE of gold. The precious metals used to make these batteries, not much difference. Not to mention, there's not NEARLY as much of it as gold or silver or coal.....not enough to go around, considering there will be 10 BILLION EVs on the road by 2030 OK then.
Dead batteries, what happens to them? It's NASTY hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out with the vegetable peels and beer cans. DEAFENING silence on that topic, NOBODY wants to discuss it. Why?

5) Riding area conflicts.
MX tracks? No worries. They put peewees and 85s on the track with Tomac and da boyz at Glen Helen, I'm sure it will work itself out
New tracks? If you're in an area where tracks are shut down because of noise, the property value is such that 50 or 200 open acres to build a track, you're talking $$MILLIONS. It's similar to airports in that regard. Don't plan on it
Trails and MTB parks? Lots of conflicts between hikers and equestrians vs. eMTBers already. That will only escalate as dumbasses reckon "hey this thing is silent, I can ride anywhere". Result? BANNED.

6) Startup company.
ATK, Cannondale, Buell, Husaberg, Cooper, Yankee, Venti, Titan, Roehr...........and Alta. Look 'em up, 'nuff said.

7) Gen Z
The iphone fecesbook generation, look all around you. Their children will have one square eye in the middle of the forehead and flippers with a single pointy finger. Evolution, baby! Watching instead of partaking in anything physical.
Witness the comments about "can't wait for the 2T and 4T sound to be gone so I can talk on my phone" while WATCHING others ride, not riding themselves, ie. didn't buy a bike of any kind. Gimme sum LIKES bro..........

8) Electrical infrastructure and supply.
"Chargers at MX tracks"
Ya sure, stand by, we'll lay a 12-inch cable 130 miles to the new track in Death Valley that gets 96 visitors a year.
Glen Helen? Perris? More feasible, but don't forget, the Great Police State of Kaliforniya is having rolling blackouts like in Zimbabwe and Congo for lack of generating capacity and obsolete crumbling infrastructure. I'm sure installing chargers at MX tracks is a top priority, CALPOWER will be there next week with bulldozers and shit

9) SBD.
"Silent but deadly".
I sat at sidewalk cafes in a certain European city known for its wines and cheese last summer, watching idiots with obviously NO bike experience zip down sidewalks and through traffic at 30 mph, having a grand old time. I almost got taken out by one such dipshit, he almost hit me full-on but I jumped and he only hit my arm. I wanted to beat his small brain in, but couldn't catch him.
It's the new IN thing.....free communal e-scooters, they're all over almost every US city. (Most are f**ked up by vandals and bums, but hey, it's only tax money, right?) Friend of mine was killed on that ridiculously powerful one that came out about 2 years ago, he crashed without a helmet and smashed his noggin.
Remember ATVs? those 3-wheeler things that sucked kids' legs under the wheels? They were BANNED after a few deaths. Wait till some pimple farmer kills a geezer hiker on a trail in a city park, or runs over someone's 3-year old.............


Like with EVs and self-driving vehicles, there are many insurmountable obstacles. In cities and densely populated areas, they're an excellent idea and 100% practical. Outside cities or in rural areas? Useless. How about in Africa, or Russia?

As a silent backyard racer? Hundreds mate. As long as you don't have 30 of your pals over on Sundays and have races and drink beer and play Metallica loud, of course.

I'm hoping the noisy iphone hype will give way to practical reasonable attitudes at some point. EVs can't and won't replace ICE any time soon, no matter what the TV says. But I fear ebikes will split the already small dirtbike crowd into even more factions, easily isolated and stomped out by government and green nazis.

Luckily I won't be around, or interested, if/when all dirtbiking is 100% silent....ie, extinct.

flap wrote:

Copy Paste research-guy! haha. Oh btw, source check real quick, seems like a great place to find your skewed intel: "The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research...

Copy Paste research-guy! haha.
Oh btw, source check real quick, seems like a great place to find your skewed intel:

"The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is a conservative 501 non-profit American think tank focused on domestic policy and urban affairs"

"The Manhattan Institute is funded largely by major corporations and conservative foundations"

"(funding) Thirty-three percent came from Fortune 500 corporations, chiefly insurance companies and pharmaceutical and chemical manufacturers including $50,000-plus each from Aetna and State From Insurance and $15,000-plus each from Prudential, Exxon, RJR Nabisco, Philip Morris, Bristol-Myers and Pfizer"

etc.

Think and feel how you want, obviously, but you dont know anything and are not 1% smarter than anyone else in here nor at Kawi or Stark.

Funny how some MX folk can be so against efforts that may keep riding areas open. Or even if you dont care about that - new brands investing tons of money and bringing another choice in dirtbike to the market.

crt32 wrote:

It was something I shared, even provided the link. Wasn't trying to hide anything. Don't think I called it research either. Please tell me in my...

It was something I shared, even provided the link. Wasn't trying to hide anything. Don't think I called it research either.

Please tell me in my previous post where I claimed to know anything or claimed to be 1% smarter than anyone?

Keeping riding areas open has nothing to do with my complaint. I think I mentioned that EV has a place, but it does not to need to replace our whole sport, it can be its own class, series, whatever. But the whole issue is the push to go 100% electric. It's going to hurt you, me, and others. It's not about riding in the big picture of things. It's about having access to affordable energy and living in a safe, yet modern world.

But thank you for your permission to think and feel how I want; I will continue to do that. And you're allowed to think how you want. But you won't find me calling you names or questioning your intelligence. Again as mentioned, let's have discussions, and name-calling or trying to use childish comments is not how you accomplish anything.

Motofinne wrote:

6 seconds is absolutely mental if true. It's a bit too much for me to believe it without any true evidence.

whethefakawe wrote:

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at...

It's "deplorable" how everything nowadays gets politicised, especially here in the US. Noticeable how some people, who invariably reveal themselves as TV-edumacated trend followers, snipe at others who bring up PRACTICAL questions about new technologies based on personal knowledge, education and experience.

I make a living as a heavy equipment operator of VERY expensive machines, and my skepticism about new and immature technologies is based on self-preservation. More complicated than an e-dirtbike, but the principles are the same.

Ever hear that old warning "don't buy anything V1.0"?

Interesting and hilarious comments, and some high-level expert input so far. Some PRACTICAL questions that need to be answered before I will join the herd:

1) "Zero maintenance".
The Varg uses KYB suspension, just like Yamahas, Betas, and a few others. Did KYB invent a new type of magical suspension that doesn't need oil, fork seals, springs, O-rings, air valves etc? How about the chassis? Swingarm bearings machined from unicorn bone that doesn't need grease? Steering head bearings made from self-lubricating unobtanium ? How about the wheel bearings? Tyres don't wear or flatten? Spokes don't go loose? Rims don't bend from 3-story landings? Chains don't stretch? Sprockets don't wear? Guess them handlebars don't bend when you ragdoll over a big triple, eh? Grips made from soft Teflon? All that because the motor doesn't burn premix?
Just because you don't have to do top ends like on a 125cc 2T, doesn't mean it's "zero maintenance", ya dunce.

2) Range.
Probably the #1 concern, as with......Teslas, ePorsches, eBMWs etc. In cities (or on MX tracks) not an issue, an electricity source is probably close by. Baja? Haha.
This topic has been beaten to death and will continue to be, so I'm not wasting bandwidth on it.
"Storage" technology ie. BATTERIES lags far behind generating technology, ask any expert.

3) Cost.
Geez......I thought it might be $12K. From what people have posted, closer to 15K? Dirtbiking started a death spiral when 4T took over (ask anybody who's been in the industry for that long) because of the COST. Now it's jumping from 10K to 15K? Good luck wi' dat!
Ask DB, MXA, anybody you want.........the sport has been sustained for the last 20 years by the geezer riders who can afford to spend that much on toys. I have 14 dirtbikes from 1978-2020, I spend lotsa $$ on them........but I refuse to pay 15K for one. Wanna bet how many other geezers feel the same?
If ya haven't figured it out, the dirtbike industry is 100% dependent on bike sales (+aftermarket, gear, fuel, parts etc), having 100K more iphone babies WATCHING won't sustain it.

4) "Save the planet".
Sure.........visualize (auralize?) 500 or 800 generators at Glen Helen every Saturday, all day.........but at least the bikes are silent
Minerals and resources.........someone posted an explanation of volume of dirt moved to produce one ton of XYZ ore. My father and brother are/were engineers in the gold mining industry, and the numbers are RIDICULOUS. Literally 1000s of tons of rock dug out of the earth to produce ONE OUNCE of gold. The precious metals used to make these batteries, not much difference. Not to mention, there's not NEARLY as much of it as gold or silver or coal.....not enough to go around, considering there will be 10 BILLION EVs on the road by 2030 OK then.
Dead batteries, what happens to them? It's NASTY hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out with the vegetable peels and beer cans. DEAFENING silence on that topic, NOBODY wants to discuss it. Why?

5) Riding area conflicts.
MX tracks? No worries. They put peewees and 85s on the track with Tomac and da boyz at Glen Helen, I'm sure it will work itself out
New tracks? If you're in an area where tracks are shut down because of noise, the property value is such that 50 or 200 open acres to build a track, you're talking $$MILLIONS. It's similar to airports in that regard. Don't plan on it
Trails and MTB parks? Lots of conflicts between hikers and equestrians vs. eMTBers already. That will only escalate as dumbasses reckon "hey this thing is silent, I can ride anywhere". Result? BANNED.

6) Startup company.
ATK, Cannondale, Buell, Husaberg, Cooper, Yankee, Venti, Titan, Roehr...........and Alta. Look 'em up, 'nuff said.

7) Gen Z
The iphone fecesbook generation, look all around you. Their children will have one square eye in the middle of the forehead and flippers with a single pointy finger. Evolution, baby! Watching instead of partaking in anything physical.
Witness the comments about "can't wait for the 2T and 4T sound to be gone so I can talk on my phone" while WATCHING others ride, not riding themselves, ie. didn't buy a bike of any kind. Gimme sum LIKES bro..........

8) Electrical infrastructure and supply.
"Chargers at MX tracks"
Ya sure, stand by, we'll lay a 12-inch cable 130 miles to the new track in Death Valley that gets 96 visitors a year.
Glen Helen? Perris? More feasible, but don't forget, the Great Police State of Kaliforniya is having rolling blackouts like in Zimbabwe and Congo for lack of generating capacity and obsolete crumbling infrastructure. I'm sure installing chargers at MX tracks is a top priority, CALPOWER will be there next week with bulldozers and shit

9) SBD.
"Silent but deadly".
I sat at sidewalk cafes in a certain European city known for its wines and cheese last summer, watching idiots with obviously NO bike experience zip down sidewalks and through traffic at 30 mph, having a grand old time. I almost got taken out by one such dipshit, he almost hit me full-on but I jumped and he only hit my arm. I wanted to beat his small brain in, but couldn't catch him.
It's the new IN thing.....free communal e-scooters, they're all over almost every US city. (Most are f**ked up by vandals and bums, but hey, it's only tax money, right?) Friend of mine was killed on that ridiculously powerful one that came out about 2 years ago, he crashed without a helmet and smashed his noggin.
Remember ATVs? those 3-wheeler things that sucked kids' legs under the wheels? They were BANNED after a few deaths. Wait till some pimple farmer kills a geezer hiker on a trail in a city park, or runs over someone's 3-year old.............


Like with EVs and self-driving vehicles, there are many insurmountable obstacles. In cities and densely populated areas, they're an excellent idea and 100% practical. Outside cities or in rural areas? Useless. How about in Africa, or Russia?

As a silent backyard racer? Hundreds mate. As long as you don't have 30 of your pals over on Sundays and have races and drink beer and play Metallica loud, of course.

I'm hoping the noisy iphone hype will give way to practical reasonable attitudes at some point. EVs can't and won't replace ICE any time soon, no matter what the TV says. But I fear ebikes will split the already small dirtbike crowd into even more factions, easily isolated and stomped out by government and green nazis.

Luckily I won't be around, or interested, if/when all dirtbiking is 100% silent....ie, extinct.

Motofinne wrote:

6 seconds is absolutely mental if true. It's a bit too much for me to believe it without any true evidence.

Darrin Willis wrote:

I call bs on that as well. 6 seconds is the difference between last place in the vet master class I race and the winner. I...

I call bs on that as well. 6 seconds is the difference between last place in the vet master class I race and the winner. I do laptimes for myself constantly. Im about 2 seconds faster on my 350 with well tuned suspension then I am on my stock 150.

#434 wrote:

At first I thought „Yeah nah“, but in a few of the tests they mentioned that they had better laptimes than on the 450s. The most...

At first I thought „Yeah nah“, but in a few of the tests they mentioned that they had better laptimes than on the 450s. The most ‚negative‘ comment on laptimes I found was with German tester Busty Wolter, who said his best laptimes were the same on the Stark and the CRF, but he could do them more consistently on the Stark.
If you think about it, why wouldn’t the Stark be the faster bike? Weight, weight distribution, suspension, max. power, tires and brakes are the same, whereas the power is more controllable and no time is wasted shifting. The only uncertainties are the chassis flex and geometry and it seems like they nailed that.

#434 wrote:

At first I thought „Yeah nah“, but in a few of the tests they mentioned that they had better laptimes than on the 450s. The most...

At first I thought „Yeah nah“, but in a few of the tests they mentioned that they had better laptimes than on the 450s. The most ‚negative‘ comment on laptimes I found was with German tester Busty Wolter, who said his best laptimes were the same on the Stark and the CRF, but he could do them more consistently on the Stark.
If you think about it, why wouldn’t the Stark be the faster bike? Weight, weight distribution, suspension, max. power, tires and brakes are the same, whereas the power is more controllable and no time is wasted shifting. The only uncertainties are the chassis flex and geometry and it seems like they nailed that.

fs wrote:

Before the media event and at a different track a young guy broke the track record by 3 seconds on a Varg (lap time just under...

Before the media event and at a different track a young guy broke the track record by 3 seconds on a Varg (lap time just under 2 minutes). He normally rides 125 2T. It would be interesting to do a real analysis but my guess is that guys who are used 2T adapt to the Varg very quickly. They are good at carrying speed through corners but also have 450 power available -- therefore the faster time.

crt32 wrote:

A lithium EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds.(a) While there are dozens of variations, such a battery typically contains about 25 pounds of lithium, 30 pounds...

A lithium EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds.(a) While there are dozens of variations, such a battery typically contains about 25 pounds of lithium, 30 pounds of cobalt, 60 pounds of nickel, 110 pounds of graphite, 90 pounds of copper,(b) about 400 pounds of steel, aluminum, and various plastic components.(c)



Looking upstream at the ore grades, one can estimate the typical quantity of rock that must be extracted from the earth and processed to yield the pure minerals needed to fabricate that single battery:



• Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that entails some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.(d)



• Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.(e)



• Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.(f)



• Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.(g)



• Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.(h)



In total then, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the earth moved though—which is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining machinery energy use—one needs to estimate the overburden, or the materials first dug up to get to the ore. Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.(i)



This means that accessing about 90,000 pounds of ore requires digging and moving between 200,000 and over 1,500,000 pounds of earth—a rough average of more than 500,000 pounds per battery. The precise number will vary for different battery chemistry formulations, and because different regions have widely variable ore grades. It bears noting that this total material footprint does not include the large quantities of materials and chemicals used to process and refine all the various ores. Nor have we counted other materials used when compared with a conventional car, such as replacing steel with aluminum to offset the weight penalty of the battery, or the supply chain for rare earth elements used in electric motors (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium).(j) Also excluded from this tally: the related, but non-battery, electrical systems in an EV use some 300% more overall copper used compared with a conventional automobile.(k)

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/mines-minerals-and-green-energy-rea…

Falcon wrote:

Imagine an indoor, air-conditioned motocross track in cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas. (Or heated in cities like Buffalo or Duluth.) That's a real possibility now.

woody woodpecker wrote:

How do you guys think this will perform through a set of whoops? I imagine an electric bike would be faster through whoops but maybe I'm...

How do you guys think this will perform through a set of whoops? I imagine an electric bike would be faster through whoops but maybe I'm wrong. If it is it might do really well in supercross, I mean it's obviously going to destroy all other bikes off the start.

Falcon wrote:

Imagine an indoor, air-conditioned motocross track in cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas. (Or heated in cities like Buffalo or Duluth.) That's a real possibility now.

OrangeJuice158 wrote:

Back in the day they did 45 minute motos in Las Vegas and Phoenix, and were glad for it. And in the winter they would hand...

Back in the day they did 45 minute motos in Las Vegas and Phoenix, and were glad for it. And in the winter they would hand shovel the snow and then do 45 minute motos.

Falcon wrote:

Imagine an indoor, air-conditioned motocross track in cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas. (Or heated in cities like Buffalo or Duluth.) That's a real possibility now.

OrangeJuice158 wrote:

Back in the day they did 45 minute motos in Las Vegas and Phoenix, and were glad for it. And in the winter they would hand...

Back in the day they did 45 minute motos in Las Vegas and Phoenix, and were glad for it. And in the winter they would hand shovel the snow and then do 45 minute motos.

Falcon wrote:

They also got cancer from red M&Ms. Ah, the good old days!

Hcallz5 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vcHRgAbzMw&t=60s Just get a Surron for the fraction of the price. My neighbor has one and it's a blast, can ride it over to the gas...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vcHRgAbzMw&t=60s

Just get a Surron for the fraction of the price. My neighbor has one and it's a blast, can ride it over to the gas station lol.

#434 wrote:

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg? Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h...

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg?

Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h or 80 mph or 36 m/s top speed with a rear wheel circumference of about 2 m, the rear wheel needs to spin with ~1000 rpm. The electric motor has a max rpm of 14000. Assuming a standard 13:50 outside gearing means that the internal gearing has to be about 1:3.5, which would be possible with just one set of gears. This would also mean that the motor of the Varg spins backwards, which would counteract wheelies while acceleration and so on. The inertia of the electric motor is of course less than that of a crank, but still there.
A lot of MotoGP bikes have backwards spinning cranks, but has any manufacturers ever tried that on an MX bike?

Please check the math. I’m already five beers in..

#434 wrote:

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg? Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h...

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg?

Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h or 80 mph or 36 m/s top speed with a rear wheel circumference of about 2 m, the rear wheel needs to spin with ~1000 rpm. The electric motor has a max rpm of 14000. Assuming a standard 13:50 outside gearing means that the internal gearing has to be about 1:3.5, which would be possible with just one set of gears. This would also mean that the motor of the Varg spins backwards, which would counteract wheelies while acceleration and so on. The inertia of the electric motor is of course less than that of a crank, but still there.
A lot of MotoGP bikes have backwards spinning cranks, but has any manufacturers ever tried that on an MX bike?

Please check the math. I’m already five beers in..

RCMXracing wrote:

Great thread, props to the smart guys weighing in giving insight. For Alta owners or others with E moto experience, is the lack of a clutch...

Great thread, props to the smart guys weighing in giving insight.

For Alta owners or others with E moto experience, is the lack of a clutch a potential problem? The clutch is a way to meter power, always covering it, and also a safety item when things go south and whiskey throttle happens. Can’t imagine not having a clutch, transmission who cares.

#434 wrote:

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg? Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h...

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg?

Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h or 80 mph or 36 m/s top speed with a rear wheel circumference of about 2 m, the rear wheel needs to spin with ~1000 rpm. The electric motor has a max rpm of 14000. Assuming a standard 13:50 outside gearing means that the internal gearing has to be about 1:3.5, which would be possible with just one set of gears. This would also mean that the motor of the Varg spins backwards, which would counteract wheelies while acceleration and so on. The inertia of the electric motor is of course less than that of a crank, but still there.
A lot of MotoGP bikes have backwards spinning cranks, but has any manufacturers ever tried that on an MX bike?

Please check the math. I’m already five beers in..

Last2Stroke wrote:

Close... Screen grab from media reviews shows 51km/h at 5,125rpm [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/06/23/556481/s1200_Screen_2.jpg[/img] Website advertises maximum motor speed of 14,200rpm, so top speed of 141km/h or 87mpg. 19"...

Close...
Screen grab from media reviews shows 51km/h at 5,125rpm



Website advertises maximum motor speed of 14,200rpm, so top speed of 141km/h or 87mpg.

19" rear wheel has 2.168m circumference.

5125 * 2.168 * 60 / (51 * 1000) = 13.07 total reduction.

Photos of bike show 13 front sprocket and 49 tooth rear sprocket, so 3.77 final drive reduction.

13.07 / 3.77 = 3.47, so 1:3.47 internal gearing.

#434 wrote:

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg? Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h...

Were there any infos about the internals of the Varg?

Here some rough calculations for the internal gearing: If the Varg is geared for 130 km/h or 80 mph or 36 m/s top speed with a rear wheel circumference of about 2 m, the rear wheel needs to spin with ~1000 rpm. The electric motor has a max rpm of 14000. Assuming a standard 13:50 outside gearing means that the internal gearing has to be about 1:3.5, which would be possible with just one set of gears. This would also mean that the motor of the Varg spins backwards, which would counteract wheelies while acceleration and so on. The inertia of the electric motor is of course less than that of a crank, but still there.
A lot of MotoGP bikes have backwards spinning cranks, but has any manufacturers ever tried that on an MX bike?

Please check the math. I’m already five beers in..

Last2Stroke wrote:

Close... Screen grab from media reviews shows 51km/h at 5,125rpm [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/06/23/556481/s1200_Screen_2.jpg[/img] Website advertises maximum motor speed of 14,200rpm, so top speed of 141km/h or 87mpg. 19"...

Close...
Screen grab from media reviews shows 51km/h at 5,125rpm



Website advertises maximum motor speed of 14,200rpm, so top speed of 141km/h or 87mpg.

19" rear wheel has 2.168m circumference.

5125 * 2.168 * 60 / (51 * 1000) = 13.07 total reduction.

Photos of bike show 13 front sprocket and 49 tooth rear sprocket, so 3.77 final drive reduction.

13.07 / 3.77 = 3.47, so 1:3.47 internal gearing.