LIV Golf vs PGA....Feld vs World SX

mx 219
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Could we see Feld implement a ban on riders wanting to race World SX similar to what the PGA is doing to golfers that are choosing to join LIV golf? I don't know much about what is going on with LIV and the PGA, but just outside looking in it seems similar to SX vs World SX. You have one series (SX) that has been the series to race SX and now there is a new series starting (World SX) that has some interesting claims regarding payouts.
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HD1200
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6/13/2022 6:27am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 10:30am
I'm not completely sure what's going on either with the golf world in respect to LIV and PGA, however I do find it ridiculous to ban the athlete for participating. IMO they are sub contractors technically and should be able to play or ride where they please.
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GrapeApe
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6/13/2022 6:51am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 7:00am
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue.

That being said the World SX model has a lot of similarities to LIV. Primarily, it all comes to an end when/if the middle east oil money goes away.
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mx 219
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6/13/2022 7:06am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 7:08am
GrapeApe wrote:
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue. That being said the World SX...
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue.

That being said the World SX model has a lot of similarities to LIV. Primarily, it all comes to an end when/if the middle east oil money goes away.
they aren't directly competing with Feld yet. Don't think if they can't get some momentum that they wouldn't compete against them.
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GrapeApe
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6/13/2022 7:42am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 8:59am
GrapeApe wrote:
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue. That being said the World SX...
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue.

That being said the World SX model has a lot of similarities to LIV. Primarily, it all comes to an end when/if the middle east oil money goes away.
mx 219 wrote:
they aren't directly competing with Feld yet. Don't think if they can't get some momentum that they wouldn't compete against them.
A big difference is the golfers are members of the PGA Tour, and therefore subject to Tour regulations. The Tour has authority to suspend golfers by agreement with its organized membership.

Feld would have potential liability if it tries to restrict competition without such a collectively bargained agreement. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was actually Feld that brought this to the table with the riders to stabilize and secure their championship?
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The Shop

tuttle425
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6/13/2022 10:20am
GrapeApe wrote:
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue. That being said the World SX...
World SX is not competing head-to-head with Feld. It would be MX Sports/DMG/AMA Pro Racing that would have the issue.

That being said the World SX model has a lot of similarities to LIV. Primarily, it all comes to an end when/if the middle east oil money goes away.
mx 219 wrote:
they aren't directly competing with Feld yet. Don't think if they can't get some momentum that they wouldn't compete against them.
GrapeApe wrote:
A big difference is the golfers are members of the PGA Tour, and therefore subject to Tour regulations. The Tour has authority to suspend golfers by...
A big difference is the golfers are members of the PGA Tour, and therefore subject to Tour regulations. The Tour has authority to suspend golfers by agreement with its organized membership.

Feld would have potential liability if it tries to restrict competition without such a collectively bargained agreement. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was actually Feld that brought this to the table with the riders to stabilize and secure their championship?
Collective bargaining occurs between employers and employees. Feld does not employ the riders. Hell, the riders arent even employees of the team. How they get around the IRS on that one is beyond me.
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6/13/2022 10:24am
I’m not sure comparing golf to sx is really that good for anyone , the money in golf is massive

The big difference between wsx and the feld/ama series at the moment is manufacturer backing

The big money for riders does not come from the promoter , it comes from the manufacturer bonus schemes , and none of them is doing anything for the wsx at This stage

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GrapeApe
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6/13/2022 11:45am
mx 219 wrote:
they aren't directly competing with Feld yet. Don't think if they can't get some momentum that they wouldn't compete against them.
GrapeApe wrote:
A big difference is the golfers are members of the PGA Tour, and therefore subject to Tour regulations. The Tour has authority to suspend golfers by...
A big difference is the golfers are members of the PGA Tour, and therefore subject to Tour regulations. The Tour has authority to suspend golfers by agreement with its organized membership.

Feld would have potential liability if it tries to restrict competition without such a collectively bargained agreement. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was actually Feld that brought this to the table with the riders to stabilize and secure their championship?
tuttle425 wrote:
Collective bargaining occurs between employers and employees. Feld does not employ the riders. Hell, the riders arent even employees of the team. How they get around...
Collective bargaining occurs between employers and employees. Feld does not employ the riders. Hell, the riders arent even employees of the team. How they get around the IRS on that one is beyond me.
Motocross is an individual sport, the "teams" are merely sponsors of the individual athletes. In other individual sports, the collective bargaining takes place between the series organizer/promoter and an organized collection of the athletes (PGA, ATP, PBR, etc.).

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6/13/2022 11:58am
LIV hired a bunch of tour has beens and nobody’s. But PGA is lame for barring PGA players from playing LIV. Let them make the money. LIV will never be the PGA tour though. They can’t get into some of these staple courses.
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NV825
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6/13/2022 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 12:55pm
Unless the AMA gets involved for some weird and wild reason, I don't see any grounds for Feld or MX Sports to hold riders from competing in World SX.

It will be really interesting to see how this all plays out for LIV vs. PGA Tour though, because they have a pretty defined charter and rules that come with carrying a Tour card. Especially because it's a membership tour vs. a group with almost unlimited budget from Saudi Arabia.
HD1200
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6/13/2022 2:12pm
LIV hired a bunch of tour has beens and nobody’s. But PGA is lame for barring PGA players from playing LIV. Let them make the money...
LIV hired a bunch of tour has beens and nobody’s. But PGA is lame for barring PGA players from playing LIV. Let them make the money. LIV will never be the PGA tour though. They can’t get into some of these staple courses.
So you're saying Bryson Dechambeau (sp?), Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler are nobody's and/has beens? Yeah ok.
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6/13/2022 2:42pm
HD1200 wrote:
So you're saying Bryson Dechambeau (sp?), Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler are nobody's and/has beens? Yeah ok.
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the biggest Fowler fan out there, went to the same HS with him and he’s the pride of murrieta. Doesn’t change the fact he, DJ, and Dechambeau know they won’t win on the PGA anytime soon and can go make more at LIV. Just because Bryson hits the ball far doesn’t make him a Sunday top guy. Is the quality of golf the same? No. I’m not hating on anyone in LIV, but it’s a bunch of has beens and nobody’s. They’re simply not the cream of the crop. Much like the world SX.
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LungButter
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6/13/2022 2:50pm
tuttle425 wrote:
Collective bargaining occurs between employers and employees. Feld does not employ the riders. Hell, the riders arent even employees of the team. How they get around...
Collective bargaining occurs between employers and employees. Feld does not employ the riders. Hell, the riders arent even employees of the team. How they get around the IRS on that one is beyond me.
Get around the IRS?

Being a "private contractor" is very common practice, there are about 100 people at my company who are.

They still pay taxes, they just do it themselves instead of their employer doing it for them out of each check.
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early
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6/13/2022 3:06pm
The question is will riders want to do 17 rounds of the Feld series then turn around and do another dozen races flying all over the world. I would suspect alot of riders would find that a bigger pain in the ass than just doing the nationals and sleeping in their own bed 5 nights a week all summer.
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gs317
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6/13/2022 3:30pm
mx 219 wrote:
Could we see Feld implement a ban on riders wanting to race World SX similar to what the PGA is doing to golfers that are choosing...
Could we see Feld implement a ban on riders wanting to race World SX similar to what the PGA is doing to golfers that are choosing to join LIV golf? I don't know much about what is going on with LIV and the PGA, but just outside looking in it seems similar to SX vs World SX. You have one series (SX) that has been the series to race SX and now there is a new series starting (World SX) that has some interesting claims regarding payouts.
The ban on LIV players has to do with the people involved in the LIV series, primarily the Saudi Prince that had Kashoggi murdered is the backer of the series. Its more a political thing than a series competition thing if I'm not mistaken.
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Motodave15
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6/13/2022 4:34pm
Meh i hope LIV.. beats out pga in the long run for the PGA being such pussys.

I don't believe this comparison is warranted
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Wil Denis
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6/14/2022 10:35am
I was very interested watching some of the new LIV, for that much money pumped into golf, I didn’t see very much signage or sponsorship. Who’s footing all the money if there is bugger all marketing/sponsorship?
As soon as you left the green or fairways, the course maintenance and shrubbery etc looked like a cheap local course.
I’m not against the LIV series, this was just my what I first noticed. I thought with the money thrown into it I was almost expecting it to be full prestigious high roller type event.
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6/14/2022 11:00am
the PGA has way more sponsors and media partners to worry about. when players leave to play in another series, it hurts their bottom line. but suspending them will only hurt things even more, though players will feel it too having to sit out a few matches.

with MX/SX/WSX I think it would do more harm then good, because fans like seeing riders come across from other series.

whats more important is to schedule these events so that they are not conflicting with each other
731chopper
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6/14/2022 11:33am
LungButter wrote:
Get around the IRS? Being a "private contractor" is very common practice, there are about 100 people at my company who are. They still pay taxes...
Get around the IRS?

Being a "private contractor" is very common practice, there are about 100 people at my company who are.

They still pay taxes, they just do it themselves instead of their employer doing it for them out of each check.
I laughed at that as well. Tuttle is clearly not an accountant.
Motobeau179
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6/14/2022 7:44pm
HD1200 wrote:
So you're saying Bryson Dechambeau (sp?), Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler are nobody's and/has beens? Yeah ok.
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the...
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the biggest Fowler fan out there, went to the same HS with him and he’s the pride of murrieta. Doesn’t change the fact he, DJ, and Dechambeau know they won’t win on the PGA anytime soon and can go make more at LIV. Just because Bryson hits the ball far doesn’t make him a Sunday top guy. Is the quality of golf the same? No. I’m not hating on anyone in LIV, but it’s a bunch of has beens and nobody’s. They’re simply not the cream of the crop. Much like the world SX.
DJ won the 2020 masters, and the FedEx Cup. Tomac won the 2020 sx championship, guess he is washed up as well.
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NewOldSchool
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6/14/2022 10:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2022 10:08pm
HD1200 wrote:
So you're saying Bryson Dechambeau (sp?), Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler are nobody's and/has beens? Yeah ok.
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the...
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the biggest Fowler fan out there, went to the same HS with him and he’s the pride of murrieta. Doesn’t change the fact he, DJ, and Dechambeau know they won’t win on the PGA anytime soon and can go make more at LIV. Just because Bryson hits the ball far doesn’t make him a Sunday top guy. Is the quality of golf the same? No. I’m not hating on anyone in LIV, but it’s a bunch of has beens and nobody’s. They’re simply not the cream of the crop. Much like the world SX.
DJ just won the Masters in 2020, you know biggest Major of the year. Phil just won the PGA Championship and Louis Oosthuizen finished top 3 in 3 of the last 6 majors. Doesn’t seem like they’re all has been.
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SwingHard
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6/15/2022 8:31am
HD1200 wrote:
So you're saying Bryson Dechambeau (sp?), Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler are nobody's and/has beens? Yeah ok.
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the...
Minus dechambeau who isn’t a has been?? When’s the last time DJ or Fowler came close to winning a major let alone a tournament. I’m the biggest Fowler fan out there, went to the same HS with him and he’s the pride of murrieta. Doesn’t change the fact he, DJ, and Dechambeau know they won’t win on the PGA anytime soon and can go make more at LIV. Just because Bryson hits the ball far doesn’t make him a Sunday top guy. Is the quality of golf the same? No. I’m not hating on anyone in LIV, but it’s a bunch of has beens and nobody’s. They’re simply not the cream of the crop. Much like the world SX.
Has beens? DJ very recently Won the Masters,Phil very recently Won the PGA Championship! Since this is a Motocross site I'd be interested in hearing your take on Dungey currently?
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6/15/2022 1:52pm
Dustin Johnson is literally still a top 20 ranked player in the world... lol has been.
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zlowery
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6/16/2022 4:12am
Im glad someone made this post. Ive been following this and really saw the comparison early on. Now that the LIV league has started, we will really see what happens.

Mixed feelings. Love the PGA and their product. My DVR records every round and a watch alot of it. The viewing experience is top notch… Shot trackers, camera work, course insight, interviews, commentary, okay ad/commercial levels, awesome tradition, top notch players. Some of the finishes as of late have been spectacular.

The golf field is so deep. Look at the money list published for most tournaments. People who you will never hear of make hundreds of thousands in prize money at a time.

So why the player gripe against the PGA? There are alot of policys and obligations that us as fans will never know. Off the top of my head: Obligation to practice rounds, making a tournament a 5-6 day deal. Obligation to press and interviews. PGA owns all images and video, players pay a great deal to use them. Above all, if you dont make the cut, you lost a great deal of money getting there and playing… The top stars can actually show up and lose money. PGA doesnt pay appearance fees. Phil mickleson, tiger, brooks, dustin, or anyone can lose money if they dont make the cut. If you think about it, every nfl, nba, mlb, nhl player has made money losing. Golfers not the case.

Enter LIV. Obviously they are making right on all the issues current tour players have. Field of 48. Appearance fees, signing bonuses. WATCH AFTER THIS WEEKS OPEN. Many more players will jump ship. Top players.

PGA banning them? Im indifferent. Cant blame them for protecting their product. The record books are based on 100+ years of PGA golf. But the PGA will fix some issues with this bit of competition.

I think the saudi group are opportunists. They picked a sport to hijack (no pun intended) that they could get the players have enough issues with to jump ship - and own a sport.

Motocross/supercross. In my opinion there has never been a “professional” sport that has seen as much popularity and legitimacy without the players/riders being compensated accordingly. Yea, i dont care what the top guys make, good for them. But 80 positions on a gate outdoors and 40 positions on the gate indoors with as many people leaving in the hole financially is a great opportunity for competition. Im curious to see how this all plays out.
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7/1/2022 6:49am
with KR joining WSX, things are getting interesting.

I don't think Feld really cares as much about WSX as DC should care. The majority of riders and teams see indoors as the pinnacle of our sport simply because of the money attached to it. Let's be honest, riders would much prefer a 20m moto in an air conditioned building to 30+2 x 2 in 98 degree heat on brutal tracks.

So if WSX actually takes, off, more and more riders will opt to run SX and WSX....leaving DC in the cold.

The PGA has a lot of pull to threaten players with suspensions and basically throwing them out of the league. That can have huge ramifications on the players, the sponsors, etc.

DC doesn't have that pull. he has to do the opposite honestly and HOPE that all the top guys ride his series year over year. I'm not sure what he can do to shore up things for his series, honestly. I mean, the only thing he could try to figure out is how to drastically increase the purse money, but I'm not sure if that's even possible.

we'll know if this WSX is really going to be sustainable when they have their first full season in '23, and if it does, it is going to be bad news for the outdoors.
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7/1/2022 7:18am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2022 1:59pm
Well if some of the best riders go and do WSX and not the nationals then more of the " poor privateers" who so many of you whine about will have a chance to make the gate at the nationals Cool
early
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7/1/2022 7:18am
with KR joining WSX, things are getting interesting. I don't think Feld really cares as much about WSX as DC should care. The majority of riders...
with KR joining WSX, things are getting interesting.

I don't think Feld really cares as much about WSX as DC should care. The majority of riders and teams see indoors as the pinnacle of our sport simply because of the money attached to it. Let's be honest, riders would much prefer a 20m moto in an air conditioned building to 30+2 x 2 in 98 degree heat on brutal tracks.

So if WSX actually takes, off, more and more riders will opt to run SX and WSX....leaving DC in the cold.

The PGA has a lot of pull to threaten players with suspensions and basically throwing them out of the league. That can have huge ramifications on the players, the sponsors, etc.

DC doesn't have that pull. he has to do the opposite honestly and HOPE that all the top guys ride his series year over year. I'm not sure what he can do to shore up things for his series, honestly. I mean, the only thing he could try to figure out is how to drastically increase the purse money, but I'm not sure if that's even possible.

we'll know if this WSX is really going to be sustainable when they have their first full season in '23, and if it does, it is going to be bad news for the outdoors.
It will be interesting to see what the money and team and travel logistics look like. This could be a bigger pain in the ass than doing the Nationals. We don't know what the race structure looks like either, it's predetermined teams and apparently wild cards, there won't be qualifying races and you need to fill enough program time to make the whole thing worth it. Do riders want to do a 12 race series of all triple crowns with 2 days of travel each way? If the money is good enough I guess.
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MelonFan123
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7/1/2022 7:21am
Rumblings of a possible Grand National Championship making a comeback. If true, it appears that Feld and MX Sports are trying to align as an answer to the World SX
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-MAVERICK-
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7/1/2022 7:29am
with KR joining WSX, things are getting interesting. I don't think Feld really cares as much about WSX as DC should care. The majority of riders...
with KR joining WSX, things are getting interesting.

I don't think Feld really cares as much about WSX as DC should care. The majority of riders and teams see indoors as the pinnacle of our sport simply because of the money attached to it. Let's be honest, riders would much prefer a 20m moto in an air conditioned building to 30+2 x 2 in 98 degree heat on brutal tracks.

So if WSX actually takes, off, more and more riders will opt to run SX and WSX....leaving DC in the cold.

The PGA has a lot of pull to threaten players with suspensions and basically throwing them out of the league. That can have huge ramifications on the players, the sponsors, etc.

DC doesn't have that pull. he has to do the opposite honestly and HOPE that all the top guys ride his series year over year. I'm not sure what he can do to shore up things for his series, honestly. I mean, the only thing he could try to figure out is how to drastically increase the purse money, but I'm not sure if that's even possible.

we'll know if this WSX is really going to be sustainable when they have their first full season in '23, and if it does, it is going to be bad news for the outdoors.
early wrote:
It will be interesting to see what the money and team and travel logistics look like. This could be a bigger pain in the ass than...
It will be interesting to see what the money and team and travel logistics look like. This could be a bigger pain in the ass than doing the Nationals. We don't know what the race structure looks like either, it's predetermined teams and apparently wild cards, there won't be qualifying races and you need to fill enough program time to make the whole thing worth it. Do riders want to do a 12 race series of all triple crowns with 2 days of travel each way? If the money is good enough I guess.
I don't know what the format is, but the whole event/evening is 4 hours long.
mx 219
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7/1/2022 7:54am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2022 7:55am
It's gonna get interesting globally for dirt bike racing over the next few months/years. How many can succeed? Not sure about all 4 (SX, WSX, MXGP, MX Nationals)
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