Shell rotella equivalent

Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 4/23/2022 7:30pm
4/23/2022 7:30pm
wrc777 wrote:
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys...
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys too.

I guess if I was going to run 1-2 hours and then do a full engine rebuild I might use the cheapest oil I could find.
Good point. Probably better to use oil with a higher marketing content for your race machine.
2
wrc777
Profile picture for user wrc777
Posts
3204
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN, USA
Fantasy
124th
wrc777 4/23/2022 9:12pm
4/23/2022 9:12pm
wrc777 wrote:
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys...
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys too.

I guess if I was going to run 1-2 hours and then do a full engine rebuild I might use the cheapest oil I could find.
Broseph wrote:
Good point. Probably better to use oil with a higher marketing content for your race machine.
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on a Honda with Honda oil so maybe there was a reason those guys sponsored by Honda would not use the Honda oil.

Years ago it was considered very good for diesels but at some point one of the reformulations made it not the great oil it had been at least in diesel trucks.
1
1
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 4/23/2022 9:25pm
4/23/2022 9:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2022 9:32pm
wrc777 wrote:
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on...
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on a Honda with Honda oil so maybe there was a reason those guys sponsored by Honda would not use the Honda oil.

Years ago it was considered very good for diesels but at some point one of the reformulations made it not the great oil it had been at least in diesel trucks.
Did you try the 5w40 or 15w40?

What about the latest formulation is not as good for diesels?
jock
Profile picture for user jock
Posts
1667
Joined
9/25/2006
Location
Postmans Ridge, QLD, AU
Fantasy
175th
jock 4/23/2022 11:44pm
4/23/2022 11:44pm
chuck356 wrote:
Never understood this fascination over oils designed for low RPM use (diesels) in motorcycles that turn 12,000 RPM, I have to wonder about foaming issues at...
Never understood this fascination over oils designed for low RPM use (diesels) in motorcycles that turn 12,000 RPM, I have to wonder about foaming issues at higher revs. I just buy motorcycle oil for my motorcycles and never had an issue.
What speed do diesel truck turbos spin at. Woohoo
8

The Shop

See All »
Sandusky26
Profile picture for user Sandusky26
Posts
3434
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC, USA
Sandusky26 4/24/2022 12:04am
4/24/2022 12:04am
wrc777 wrote:
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys...
Well if it works in a tractor it might be good for a Suzuki. They have a similar weight profile. Maybe it works well in Harleys too.

I guess if I was going to run 1-2 hours and then do a full engine rebuild I might use the cheapest oil I could find.
Broseph wrote:
Good point. Probably better to use oil with a higher marketing content for your race machine.
wrc777 wrote:
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on...
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on a Honda with Honda oil so maybe there was a reason those guys sponsored by Honda would not use the Honda oil.

Years ago it was considered very good for diesels but at some point one of the reformulations made it not the great oil it had been at least in diesel trucks.
Your camshaft seized in your head on a low hour Honda using Honda oil. I hate it for you, but it’s pretty ironic.
1
2
wrc777
Profile picture for user wrc777
Posts
3204
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN, USA
Fantasy
124th
wrc777 4/24/2022 5:00am
4/24/2022 5:00am
wrc777 wrote:
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on...
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on a Honda with Honda oil so maybe there was a reason those guys sponsored by Honda would not use the Honda oil.

Years ago it was considered very good for diesels but at some point one of the reformulations made it not the great oil it had been at least in diesel trucks.
Broseph wrote:
Did you try the 5w40 or 15w40?

What about the latest formulation is not as good for diesels?
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just from looking at and smelling them when changing oil.

The diesel oils really started to change in 2006 due to diesel particulate filters and some additives like zddp (important for flat tappet high performance engines) being significantly reduced. New additives have been developed since then, but they were specifically developed for roller cam engines because that is what all automotive has gone to. Do they work well in flat tappet engines? I doubt anyone checked. The epa only cares about emissions not engine life.
wrc777
Profile picture for user wrc777
Posts
3204
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN, USA
Fantasy
124th
wrc777 4/24/2022 5:12am
4/24/2022 5:12am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2022 5:15am
Sandusky26 wrote:
Your camshaft seized in your head on a low hour Honda using Honda oil. I hate it for you, but it’s pretty ironic.
The irony is certainly not lost on me. I had good luck with their gear oil in two strokes so I bought the best 10w-30 Honda sells thinking they would have speced that for a reason.

I think that engine had an assembly issue with too tight cam cap bolts or an issue with feeding oil at extreme lean angles but maybe it was the oil.
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 4/24/2022 6:50am
4/24/2022 6:50am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2022 8:29am
wrc777 wrote:
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just...
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just from looking at and smelling them when changing oil.

The diesel oils really started to change in 2006 due to diesel particulate filters and some additives like zddp (important for flat tappet high performance engines) being significantly reduced. New additives have been developed since then, but they were specifically developed for roller cam engines because that is what all automotive has gone to. Do they work well in flat tappet engines? I doubt anyone checked. The epa only cares about emissions not engine life.
ZDDP has not been reduced in Rotella. It’s still around 1200ppm zinc and phosphorus. And CK-4 has better oxidation and shear stability than the the older spec. I’m still trying to figure out what’s not to like about the new stuff.
2
1
Sandusky26
Profile picture for user Sandusky26
Posts
3434
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC, USA
Sandusky26 4/24/2022 2:32pm
4/24/2022 2:32pm
Sandusky26 wrote:
Your camshaft seized in your head on a low hour Honda using Honda oil. I hate it for you, but it’s pretty ironic.
wrc777 wrote:
The irony is certainly not lost on me. I had good luck with their gear oil in two strokes so I bought the best 10w-30 Honda...
The irony is certainly not lost on me. I had good luck with their gear oil in two strokes so I bought the best 10w-30 Honda sells thinking they would have speced that for a reason.

I think that engine had an assembly issue with too tight cam cap bolts or an issue with feeding oil at extreme lean angles but maybe it was the oil.
I doubt it was the oil, most likely just shitty luck. All oil is good nowadays.
6
MX558
Profile picture for user MX558
Posts
1980
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
MX558 4/24/2022 3:20pm
4/24/2022 3:20pm
Ok after reading all this I'm even more confused . So which Rotalla should I use in my 450 and 350 ?
wrc777
Profile picture for user wrc777
Posts
3204
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN, USA
Fantasy
124th
wrc777 4/24/2022 3:32pm
4/24/2022 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2022 3:33pm
Noack volatility on diesel oils is pretty high. 14% for rotella vs 5% for motorex for instance. I can’t find the zddp for motorex but I did find quite a few oils with 1500+ and moly in them too.

Does it matter? I don’t know. I am not a chemist. I just trust when they say this is for motorcycles and this is for Diesel engines.
2
dmac1
Profile picture for user dmac1
Posts
162
Joined
3/30/2011
Location
USA
dmac1 4/24/2022 4:49pm
4/24/2022 4:49pm
Any reason besides price you guys run T4 vs T6? I've always ran the latter in my Cummins and dirt bikes. No clutch issues (15w40 lately).

Availability? Yeah, not so good here in Colorado. I bought some on Amazon for my truck months ago and figured I'd hafta switch my bikes, but I kept watching Walmart and eventually found some there too. Not since tho, but I've not really been looking.
Sandusky26
Profile picture for user Sandusky26
Posts
3434
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC, USA
Sandusky26 4/24/2022 5:55pm
4/24/2022 5:55pm
wrc777 wrote:
Noack volatility on diesel oils is pretty high. 14% for rotella vs 5% for motorex for instance. I can’t find the zddp for motorex but I...
Noack volatility on diesel oils is pretty high. 14% for rotella vs 5% for motorex for instance. I can’t find the zddp for motorex but I did find quite a few oils with 1500+ and moly in them too.

Does it matter? I don’t know. I am not a chemist. I just trust when they say this is for motorcycles and this is for Diesel engines.
If it didn’t meet the oil specs in my manual, I wouldn’t use it.
Timo
Profile picture for user Timo
Posts
1447
Joined
1/9/2021
Location
Wichita, KS, USA
Timo 4/24/2022 7:42pm
4/24/2022 7:42pm
wrc777 wrote:
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on...
I have used rotella. I didn’t like the clutch or shifter feel with it. On the other hand I did have an oil related failure on a Honda with Honda oil so maybe there was a reason those guys sponsored by Honda would not use the Honda oil.

Years ago it was considered very good for diesels but at some point one of the reformulations made it not the great oil it had been at least in diesel trucks.
Broseph wrote:
Did you try the 5w40 or 15w40?

What about the latest formulation is not as good for diesels?
wrc777 wrote:
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just...
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just from looking at and smelling them when changing oil.

The diesel oils really started to change in 2006 due to diesel particulate filters and some additives like zddp (important for flat tappet high performance engines) being significantly reduced. New additives have been developed since then, but they were specifically developed for roller cam engines because that is what all automotive has gone to. Do they work well in flat tappet engines? I doubt anyone checked. The epa only cares about emissions not engine life.
You're basing your oil analysis on color and smell, seems scientific enough for YouTube! You should start a show and call yourself an expert...
1
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 4/29/2022 8:43am
4/29/2022 8:43am
chuck356 wrote:
Never understood this fascination over oils designed for low RPM use (diesels) in motorcycles that turn 12,000 RPM, I have to wonder about foaming issues at...
Never understood this fascination over oils designed for low RPM use (diesels) in motorcycles that turn 12,000 RPM, I have to wonder about foaming issues at higher revs. I just buy motorcycle oil for my motorcycles and never had an issue.
Well it’s your lucky day. Rotella is now a motorcycle oil:



6
LungButter
Profile picture for user LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
LungButter 4/29/2022 9:23am
4/29/2022 9:23am
Rotella has scored more National points with Privateers than all other oils combined.
7
1
Braaaphole
Profile picture for user Braaaphole
Posts
803
Joined
8/21/2016
Location
Spring, TX, USA
Braaaphole 4/29/2022 6:38pm
4/29/2022 6:38pm
murph783 wrote:
This stuff [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/03/01/536011/s1200_547F653C_A7E1_44A8_A833_BE8A3449CB5E.jpg[/img]
This stuff

This is what I've been running in my diesel since I can't find the Rotella.
Leeham
Profile picture for user Leeham
Posts
1159
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
Rochester, WA, USA
Leeham 4/30/2022 1:38pm
4/30/2022 1:38pm
Last year my oil drain bolt came out on my YZ250F. Rode from anywhere 2-5 minutes low/no oil. I was using Rotella at the time as well. I looked at the head and cams. They looked just fine. Actually amazed at the wear tbh. 50 hours and the bike still runs like a dream. Piston wear was great too
3

Pit Row

See All »
Roudy33
Profile picture for user Roudy33
Posts
36
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
Augusta, GA, USA
Roudy33 5/3/2022 6:34am
5/3/2022 6:34am
Home Depot by me has Rotella T4 and T6 in stock, which ever you prefer
MotoMan12345
Profile picture for user MotoMan12345
Posts
1701
Joined
12/22/2014
Location
Alpine, UT, USA
MotoMan12345 5/3/2022 6:36am
5/3/2022 6:36am
I just stocked up on some rotella. Walmart by me was fully loaded!
Dusty212x
Profile picture for user Dusty212x
Posts
58
Joined
4/11/2019
Location
USA
Dusty212x 5/3/2022 7:08am
5/3/2022 7:08am
adamw21 wrote:
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied So it seems...
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied


So it seems as if rotella is next to impossible to find. Heard some diesel buddies talk about them not being able to get it so I figured I better go buy some for oil changes this summer and sure enough shelves empty of t4 t6 and etc and no stores seem to have it instock. So what else are people using that’s equivalent to rotella but in the same price range ? I was buying a gallon of t4 for 15$ otd.
I feel dumb for asking but why are people using diesel oil for bikes?
1
3
Crash81
Profile picture for user Crash81
Posts
24
Joined
10/29/2021
Location
Dexter, MI, USA
Crash81 5/3/2022 7:24am
5/3/2022 7:24am
wrc777 wrote:
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just...
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just from looking at and smelling them when changing oil.

The diesel oils really started to change in 2006 due to diesel particulate filters and some additives like zddp (important for flat tappet high performance engines) being significantly reduced. New additives have been developed since then, but they were specifically developed for roller cam engines because that is what all automotive has gone to. Do they work well in flat tappet engines? I doubt anyone checked. The epa only cares about emissions not engine life.
EPA cares about longevity. They have regulations in place for engines/vehicles to meet emissions specs for the entire "useful life" of the vehicle/engine. They also test for this by pulling stuff in from the field. Manufacturers know this so they design stuff to meet those regulations for the right amount of life.
Crash81
Profile picture for user Crash81
Posts
24
Joined
10/29/2021
Location
Dexter, MI, USA
Crash81 5/3/2022 7:28am
5/3/2022 7:28am
adamw21 wrote:
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied So it seems...
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied


So it seems as if rotella is next to impossible to find. Heard some diesel buddies talk about them not being able to get it so I figured I better go buy some for oil changes this summer and sure enough shelves empty of t4 t6 and etc and no stores seem to have it instock. So what else are people using that’s equivalent to rotella but in the same price range ? I was buying a gallon of t4 for 15$ otd.
Dusty212x wrote:
I feel dumb for asking but why are people using diesel oil for bikes?
It has nothing to do with the type of vehicle it's in. It's about the environment the oil is in. I would argue that it's far more appropriate to use synthetic atf in a dirt bike than anything else. Dirt bikes are sharing oil for the engine components AND the transmission components. I think ATF is a better fluid because it's now being installed in passenger cars for the life of the vehicle
3
wrc777
Profile picture for user wrc777
Posts
3204
Joined
5/21/2020
Location
Greenwood, IN, USA
Fantasy
124th
wrc777 5/3/2022 7:41am
5/3/2022 7:41am
wrc777 wrote:
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just...
I have used both. The 5w-40 was better than the 15w-40. To me they break down a lot faster than group IV/V oils. That is just from looking at and smelling them when changing oil.

The diesel oils really started to change in 2006 due to diesel particulate filters and some additives like zddp (important for flat tappet high performance engines) being significantly reduced. New additives have been developed since then, but they were specifically developed for roller cam engines because that is what all automotive has gone to. Do they work well in flat tappet engines? I doubt anyone checked. The epa only cares about emissions not engine life.
Crash81 wrote:
EPA cares about longevity. They have regulations in place for engines/vehicles to meet emissions specs for the entire "useful life" of the vehicle/engine. They also test...
EPA cares about longevity. They have regulations in place for engines/vehicles to meet emissions specs for the entire "useful life" of the vehicle/engine. They also test for this by pulling stuff in from the field. Manufacturers know this so they design stuff to meet those regulations for the right amount of life.
Yeah the epa “lifetime” is much shorter than what customers expect. It is 80k miles on a passenger car. After that all repairs to keep it emissions compliant are on the customer. Hd diesels have a different time but it is not that long. Again epa does not care if your engine needs to be rebuilt at 120k miles because the oil that was specified protected the exhaust catalyst but not the rings and liner. Diesel engine manufacturers had to spend more money on coatings and design to protect the engine internals from what emissions regulations required.

From what I am reading the oil may still be ok based on current Diesel engine design. Do you think Shell worked with motorcycle manufacturers to test rotella in bikes?
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 5/3/2022 8:10am
5/3/2022 8:10am
adamw21 wrote:
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied So it seems...
NOT LOOKING FOR A OIL DEBATE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT I have ran this stuff for years and have been satisfied


So it seems as if rotella is next to impossible to find. Heard some diesel buddies talk about them not being able to get it so I figured I better go buy some for oil changes this summer and sure enough shelves empty of t4 t6 and etc and no stores seem to have it instock. So what else are people using that’s equivalent to rotella but in the same price range ? I was buying a gallon of t4 for 15$ otd.
Dusty212x wrote:
I feel dumb for asking but why are people using diesel oil for bikes?
Look 7 posts above yours. There’s a picture of a motorcycle in the marketing material. Therefore it’s a motorcycle oil.
5
LungButter
Profile picture for user LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
LungButter 5/3/2022 8:11am
5/3/2022 8:11am
Dusty212x wrote:
I feel dumb for asking but why are people using diesel oil for bikes?
More important question, why aren't you?
3
1
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1203
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA, USA
Broseph 5/3/2022 8:50am
5/3/2022 8:50am
Crash81 wrote:
It has nothing to do with the type of vehicle it's in. It's about the environment the oil is in. I would argue that it's far...
It has nothing to do with the type of vehicle it's in. It's about the environment the oil is in. I would argue that it's far more appropriate to use synthetic atf in a dirt bike than anything else. Dirt bikes are sharing oil for the engine components AND the transmission components. I think ATF is a better fluid because it's now being installed in passenger cars for the life of the vehicle
ATF is great for gearboxes. And the reason it can be a lifetime fill is because gearboxes run super clean with basically no source of outside contaminates.

I’m skeptical about ATF in an engine. ATF uses a completely different additive package (no ZDDP, high sulfur) to combat wear. Also missing the additives needed to survive in the presence of combustion by-products (things that make engine oil acidic over time).
OrangeJuice158 5/3/2022 8:50am
5/3/2022 8:50am
Broseph wrote:
Look 7 posts above yours. There’s a picture of a motorcycle in the marketing material. Therefore it’s a motorcycle oil.
I mean it’s the all time points leader in the oil manufactures cup I heard
1
Dusty212x
Profile picture for user Dusty212x
Posts
58
Joined
4/11/2019
Location
USA
Dusty212x 5/4/2022 9:39am
5/4/2022 9:39am
Dusty212x wrote:
I feel dumb for asking but why are people using diesel oil for bikes?
LungButter wrote:
More important question, why aren't you?
I use what my bike is recommended for. and it voids the warranty if I don't use it. #Yamalube
1
MotoTribology 5/4/2022 9:45am
5/4/2022 9:45am
Dusty212x wrote:
I use what my bike is recommended for. and it voids the warranty if I don't use it. #Yamalube
Manufacturer warranties are not contingent on brand of oil used as long as the oil used meets the minimum specifications of manufacturer's recommended/required product.
1

Post a reply to: Shell rotella equivalent