Jason Weigandt - Ways to slow down the 450s

Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 4/6/2022 10:56am
4/6/2022 10:56am
Sandusky26 wrote:
Make em all ride Suzuki's
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I havent given a down vote in a long long time, but you came close to it here bro..
Falcon wrote:
I just laughed. You have to admit, even as a Suzuki fan, that was a good dig.

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honda341
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honda341 4/6/2022 11:39am
4/6/2022 11:39am
So I go back to track design. Let the suspension take the hits. They wouldn’t be falling from 20-25’ onto flat but onto a landing that is steep and needs precise placement. Precision went out the window with McGrath. Then came who can go fastest and hardest. I don’t mind the racing now. I love it. I see no NEED to change. It is MX/SX. People get hurt.
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R66
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R66 4/6/2022 12:24pm
4/6/2022 12:24pm
Easiest way to regulate them fairly if you want to is with a regulated maximum diameter and minimum length of an exhaust tip. Chokes the power. Like a restrictor plate, but in the exhaust. I am not for this, but it would work.
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tireguy1000
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tireguy1000 4/6/2022 12:58pm
4/6/2022 12:58pm

Tracks breaking down, Lappers getting worse and worse, Tons of injuries, Lap times super short.
Simple fix - Do as all other motor-sports do. Limit the machine. Solves all problems.

The Shop

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HonDawg17 4/6/2022 12:59pm
4/6/2022 12:59pm
THE PROBLEM:
We need more track inside football stadiums. Baseball Stadiums don't have the "tight tracks, short lap times, and track breaking down too much" problems that some of the football stadiums have.

THE SOLUTION:
Most of the football stadiums have the option to retract 1 side of the stands to make a baseball field floor size. That would add about 35-40% more floor space to make a bigger track. Just look at the difference in the pics attached. You could add up to 3 more lanes of track or put the start straight there off to the side of the main track layout. Its the easiest solution to add about 15 seconds to lap times, while also decreasing track breakdown for the entire day.

That way you don't have to change anything with the bikes. You just have to sacrifice a little bit of crowd space. But if you've been to a supercross in the last 10 years or more, NO ONE is selling out stadiums unfortunately.

Dear FELD,
Take a hit on seating 5000 fans in a different part of the stadium for the sake of the sport.




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early
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early 4/6/2022 1:01pm
4/6/2022 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2022 1:05pm
^^^^Most stadiums aren't double duty football-baseball anymore.
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HonDawg17 4/6/2022 1:42pm
4/6/2022 1:42pm
early wrote:
^^^^Most stadiums aren't double duty football-baseball anymore.
I thought it was a requirement....but okay.

Then go to stadiums that do..
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Joey_Bridges
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Joey_Bridges 4/6/2022 2:03pm
4/6/2022 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2022 2:21pm
Even looking at the top photo of the stadium.
That entire bowled out section of stands could be covered, layered with dirt for either two up and down bowl turns, or one big arching fast banked turn.

Time to start thinking out of the box, and up off of the floor.
It's been done before.
Which goes back to the argument of, more dirt is needed.
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TropicPilot 4/6/2022 2:47pm
4/6/2022 2:47pm
R66 wrote:
Easiest way to regulate them fairly if you want to is with a regulated maximum diameter and minimum length of an exhaust tip. Chokes the power...
Easiest way to regulate them fairly if you want to is with a regulated maximum diameter and minimum length of an exhaust tip. Chokes the power. Like a restrictor plate, but in the exhaust. I am not for this, but it would work.

motomike137
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motomike137 4/6/2022 11:36pm
4/6/2022 11:36pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
THE PROBLEM: We need more track inside football stadiums. Baseball Stadiums don't have the "tight tracks, short lap times, and track breaking down too much" problems...
THE PROBLEM:
We need more track inside football stadiums. Baseball Stadiums don't have the "tight tracks, short lap times, and track breaking down too much" problems that some of the football stadiums have.

THE SOLUTION:
Most of the football stadiums have the option to retract 1 side of the stands to make a baseball field floor size. That would add about 35-40% more floor space to make a bigger track. Just look at the difference in the pics attached. You could add up to 3 more lanes of track or put the start straight there off to the side of the main track layout. Its the easiest solution to add about 15 seconds to lap times, while also decreasing track breakdown for the entire day.

That way you don't have to change anything with the bikes. You just have to sacrifice a little bit of crowd space. But if you've been to a supercross in the last 10 years or more, NO ONE is selling out stadiums unfortunately.

Dear FELD,
Take a hit on seating 5000 fans in a different part of the stadium for the sake of the sport.




Back in the good old days The Silverdome was wall to wall dirt and they went up into one corner the stadium for many years. Some of these current tracks are glorified arenacross layouts.
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HonDawg17 4/7/2022 10:29am
4/7/2022 10:29am
HonDawg17 wrote:
THE PROBLEM: We need more track inside football stadiums. Baseball Stadiums don't have the "tight tracks, short lap times, and track breaking down too much" problems...
THE PROBLEM:
We need more track inside football stadiums. Baseball Stadiums don't have the "tight tracks, short lap times, and track breaking down too much" problems that some of the football stadiums have.

THE SOLUTION:
Most of the football stadiums have the option to retract 1 side of the stands to make a baseball field floor size. That would add about 35-40% more floor space to make a bigger track. Just look at the difference in the pics attached. You could add up to 3 more lanes of track or put the start straight there off to the side of the main track layout. Its the easiest solution to add about 15 seconds to lap times, while also decreasing track breakdown for the entire day.

That way you don't have to change anything with the bikes. You just have to sacrifice a little bit of crowd space. But if you've been to a supercross in the last 10 years or more, NO ONE is selling out stadiums unfortunately.

Dear FELD,
Take a hit on seating 5000 fans in a different part of the stadium for the sake of the sport.




motomike137 wrote:
Back in the good old days The Silverdome was wall to wall dirt and they went up into one corner the stadium for many years. Some...
Back in the good old days The Silverdome was wall to wall dirt and they went up into one corner the stadium for many years. Some of these current tracks are glorified arenacross layouts.
It makes no sense in person once you're at the stadium and you see the track is 20-30ft away from the walls of the floor. There's so much wasted floor space and they do it for "safety" so a rider doesn't jump into the stands. But then they also don't let fans use the first 7-10 rows of seating in every stadium because they have their sponsor tarps up. They do that for "safety" as well, so if a rider does somehow launch his bike into the stands it won't injure a fan. I have yet to see a bike launch into the crowd in the history of the sport. They can get rid of the advertising tarps. All around they waste too much floor space and seating. But i'd rather they use the seating they've wasted to put a track on it. The solution is more track, NOT limiting the bikes or riders.
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Muttly
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Muttly 4/7/2022 2:10pm
4/7/2022 2:10pm
“Production” rule, oh wait…….
Muttly
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Muttly 4/7/2022 2:11pm
4/7/2022 2:11pm
Joey_Bridges wrote:
Even looking at the top photo of the stadium. That entire bowled out section of stands could be covered, layered with dirt for either two up...
Even looking at the top photo of the stadium.
That entire bowled out section of stands could be covered, layered with dirt for either two up and down bowl turns, or one big arching fast banked turn.

Time to start thinking out of the box, and up off of the floor.
It's been done before.
Which goes back to the argument of, more dirt is needed.
Sounds like the old LA Coliseum.
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enketchum
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enketchum 4/7/2022 3:56pm
4/7/2022 3:56pm
YEAAAHHHHHHHH
KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 4/7/2022 4:18pm
4/7/2022 4:18pm
If MEC ever gets going again, it would be a good place to try out some of these ideas. However, I'm sure the riders won't appreciate the one-race change to bikes/tires.
ga_pike
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ga_pike 4/7/2022 4:58pm
4/7/2022 4:58pm
Would be interesting to see the current 450's on a track like the old LA Colesium in the days of RJ and Bailey.

That said, I think 250s are plenty for indoors. Have the premier class be 250 (4T or 2T) and have the regional class limited modification 250 if we can't have 125 2Ts.
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 4/7/2022 4:58pm
4/7/2022 4:58pm
mxracer816 wrote:
Quit building the tracks to "spec" It's nothing for these guys to do the big rhythm sections the FIRST lap of practice. Make them learn to...
Quit building the tracks to "spec" It's nothing for these guys to do the big rhythm sections the FIRST lap of practice. Make them learn to time sections and it not just be habit
because they are the exact distance every week. Build something at every track that only the top 3 250 guys can do. Make the tracks difficult, to the point the riders don't like them. The sport is inherently dangerous, give the guys something that separates the best from the good!
Been saying that for some time. Every team has a clone SX track that is practiced to death all week long.

All we're watching now is "gymnastics".

Mix up the track so it is unique each week....something that cannot be practiced. Screw the rhythm sections.

I'd be fine with restricting the power, using ECO style tires....using pump gas to slow it all down.

Like Weege said, we will not notice the speed loss.
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early
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early 4/7/2022 6:14pm
4/7/2022 6:14pm
ga_pike wrote:
Would be interesting to see the current 450's on a track like the old LA Colesium in the days of RJ and Bailey. That said, I...
Would be interesting to see the current 450's on a track like the old LA Colesium in the days of RJ and Bailey.

That said, I think 250s are plenty for indoors. Have the premier class be 250 (4T or 2T) and have the regional class limited modification 250 if we can't have 125 2Ts.
40 second lap times, holeshot to win.
https://youtu.be/lSULEBAe3hs
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HonDawg17 4/8/2022 6:21am
4/8/2022 6:21am
ga_pike wrote:
Would be interesting to see the current 450's on a track like the old LA Colesium in the days of RJ and Bailey. That said, I...
Would be interesting to see the current 450's on a track like the old LA Colesium in the days of RJ and Bailey.

That said, I think 250s are plenty for indoors. Have the premier class be 250 (4T or 2T) and have the regional class limited modification 250 if we can't have 125 2Ts.
early wrote:
40 second lap times, holeshot to win.
https://youtu.be/lSULEBAe3hs
the track is 90% straight aways...terrible argument for short lap times.
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MXSki
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MXSki 4/8/2022 6:54am
4/8/2022 6:54am
Pretty much anything Weigandt writes, posts or says, I generally ignore it.
That's just me though.
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RaceFace58 4/8/2022 6:51pm
4/8/2022 6:51pm
honda341 wrote:
It is forward momentum and the sudden stop that breaks bones and gets people hurt. Take away the 10-15 feet run up from the turn into...
It is forward momentum and the sudden stop that breaks bones and gets people hurt. Take away the 10-15 feet run up from the turn into the rhythm section and make jumps steeper. Must be an old XC Pro but thanks for your input.
OldPro277 wrote:
No kidding -- Physics major ,Im assuming,lol ?? But steeper jumps will only exacerbate the problem. With todays 450's these guys don't need any "run-up" to...
No kidding -- Physics major ,Im assuming,lol ?? But steeper jumps will only exacerbate the problem. With todays 450's these guys don't need any "run-up" to launch those bikes into the stratosphere. However you are correct in your first statement -- its the sudden stop and excessive force that causes the most severe injuries -- "back in my day" as an Ex Moto pro (not XC smart ass,lol ) we may have jumped almost as far 70' + but usually no more than 6-8' off the ground and at higher speed. When we crashed doing that, the forward momentum had us rolling along the ground ---not a great position ,but far less damaging than a near vertical drop from 20-25' (or higher)

I'm not sure how to reduce the SX injury issues, but the instantaneous brute acceleration of the modern 4-strokes has certainly been a major factor. You only need top go back to the 2-stroke McGrath era and earlier seasons and take note of how many season ending or race-missing injuries that occurred then as opposed to recently. AND I hate to even suggest this, but overall the physical condition of todays racer is probably even higher than what we were . So what can be done ? Bringing back the 250 2-stroke would be the option--but that will never happen, Slowing the current bikes down is not going to be a very easy thing to try to implement , and track design is pretty limited by trying to balance stadium size, challenging enough design for the Pro's, and enough excitement for the "fans"


The SX tracks back then were not as high speed, didn’t have all these rhythm sections, they didn’t jump onto tabletops that are only about twice the bikes wheelbase. Never were they close to being in the air for 48% of a lap. They have consistently increased the speed of the tracks and made obstacles more spectacular. They won’t say this but they like the more spectacular crashes too. That’s what would slow the speeds down. The 250 guys are on the same second as the 450s so it’s not like they’re going 10 mph slower. The speed is what injures not the displacement.
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MXSki 4/8/2022 7:04pm
4/8/2022 7:04pm
honda341 wrote:
It is forward momentum and the sudden stop that breaks bones and gets people hurt. Take away the 10-15 feet run up from the turn into...
It is forward momentum and the sudden stop that breaks bones and gets people hurt. Take away the 10-15 feet run up from the turn into the rhythm section and make jumps steeper. Must be an old XC Pro but thanks for your input.
OldPro277 wrote:
No kidding -- Physics major ,Im assuming,lol ?? But steeper jumps will only exacerbate the problem. With todays 450's these guys don't need any "run-up" to...
No kidding -- Physics major ,Im assuming,lol ?? But steeper jumps will only exacerbate the problem. With todays 450's these guys don't need any "run-up" to launch those bikes into the stratosphere. However you are correct in your first statement -- its the sudden stop and excessive force that causes the most severe injuries -- "back in my day" as an Ex Moto pro (not XC smart ass,lol ) we may have jumped almost as far 70' + but usually no more than 6-8' off the ground and at higher speed. When we crashed doing that, the forward momentum had us rolling along the ground ---not a great position ,but far less damaging than a near vertical drop from 20-25' (or higher)

I'm not sure how to reduce the SX injury issues, but the instantaneous brute acceleration of the modern 4-strokes has certainly been a major factor. You only need top go back to the 2-stroke McGrath era and earlier seasons and take note of how many season ending or race-missing injuries that occurred then as opposed to recently. AND I hate to even suggest this, but overall the physical condition of todays racer is probably even higher than what we were . So what can be done ? Bringing back the 250 2-stroke would be the option--but that will never happen, Slowing the current bikes down is not going to be a very easy thing to try to implement , and track design is pretty limited by trying to balance stadium size, challenging enough design for the Pro's, and enough excitement for the "fans"


RaceFace58 wrote:
The SX tracks back then were not as high speed, didn’t have all these rhythm sections, they didn’t jump onto tabletops that are only about twice...
The SX tracks back then were not as high speed, didn’t have all these rhythm sections, they didn’t jump onto tabletops that are only about twice the bikes wheelbase. Never were they close to being in the air for 48% of a lap. They have consistently increased the speed of the tracks and made obstacles more spectacular. They won’t say this but they like the more spectacular crashes too. That’s what would slow the speeds down. The 250 guys are on the same second as the 450s so it’s not like they’re going 10 mph slower. The speed is what injures not the displacement.
Very interesting and valid points.
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Magoofan 4/9/2022 8:02am
4/9/2022 8:02am
MXSki wrote:
Pretty much anything Weigandt writes, posts or says, I generally ignore it.
That's just me though.
I cannot fathom what kind of person would have any reason to dislike Weege. Even worse...what kind of fan of this sport could have an issue with him.


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Tbteam
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Tbteam 4/9/2022 8:44am
4/9/2022 8:44am
MXSki wrote:
Pretty much anything Weigandt writes, posts or says, I generally ignore it.
That's just me though.
You're right about one thing... it's just you.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 8:49am
4/9/2022 8:49am
R66 wrote:
Easiest way to regulate them fairly if you want to is with a regulated maximum diameter and minimum length of an exhaust tip. Chokes the power...
Easiest way to regulate them fairly if you want to is with a regulated maximum diameter and minimum length of an exhaust tip. Chokes the power. Like a restrictor plate, but in the exhaust. I am not for this, but it would work.
What would you slow down, a second a lap? If that? There’s nothing you can do to the machines to slow them down considerably on the same tracks. Unless you say they need to use 4 inches of suspension travel or trials tires. Sad fact is restricting power might add to the danger since coming up short on jumps or dropping a wheel in the whoops would only be more common with less power.
MXSki
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MXSki 4/9/2022 9:40am
4/9/2022 9:40am
MXSki wrote:
Pretty much anything Weigandt writes, posts or says, I generally ignore it.
That's just me though.
Magoofan wrote:
I cannot fathom what kind of person would have any reason to dislike Weege. Even worse...what kind of fan of this sport could have an issue...
I cannot fathom what kind of person would have any reason to dislike Weege. Even worse...what kind of fan of this sport could have an issue with him.


LMAO. It’ll be ok
trace704
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trace704 4/9/2022 11:21am
4/9/2022 11:21am
As expensive as all these machines are now days is it crazy to think the manufacturers can't offer a direct replacement
cylinder that is 350cc. you can literally tune your bike for a 450cc or 350cc cylinder on your phone. stop promoting the bike as a 450 and call it a open class. 350 Supercross 450 outdoors
CPan
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CPan 4/9/2022 11:25am
4/9/2022 11:25am
Mcadoo out now too. Obviously these 250s are too dangerous too. We better get these guys riding pedal tricycles before it’s too late…….. if you didn’t catch the sarcasm, this thread it a joke.

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