Being fast

Bruce372
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3/23/2022 6:59am
So if one works hard enough, can they write better songs than Lennon and McCartney? What about better paintings than Picasso?

Natural talent is real IMO and thats why the world is beautiful, because so many talents at so many different skills.

Even athletic performance is genetic, like the muscle composition of fast or slow twitch fibers.... Mark Cavendish is the most prolific bike sprinter the world has ever seen, but he struggles even to complete many tour stages.
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Titan1
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3/23/2022 7:15am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 11:17am
Here is one example of why I think there is a "go fast gene" (or natural talent). I've ridden consistently since I was a kid...always had a bike, always ridden. I have a younger brother that purchased his first bike when he was 27 years old. I was 31 years old at the time.

He started racing our local offroad series....first year owning a bike he's winning Novice (C class) overalls...moves up to Amateur (Cool , first year amateur hes finishing top 5-10th overall Amateur (and beating me)...second year racing amateur he's winning Amateur overalls...moves to Expert (A) after owning a bike four years...and is finishing in the top 10 overall (of everyone, including pro's)...as a guy racing 30+ Expert (Vet A)...he's beating pro's, beating A riders that are 10+ years younger than him, and winning Expert overalls.

Meanwhile...I raced Amateur for ever...best I could ever do was 7th overall Amateur. At 35 years old, I did move up to Expert, just because I was beating all the other old guys in Amateur...but I"m not where near the front of the Expert class like my brother is (best I've ever done, was 23rd overall, and 13th overall expert)...even though I have countless more hours on a bike than he does. (again this is a local off road series, with an average race participation of around 250/275 riders...so the talent isn't as deep as a national series).

He just has "it" (well, more of “it” than I have)...whatever "it" is...and I don't...

Granted, even as an old guy (I'm 41 years old), I'm still trying to improve...I've taken riding schools, focused on my technique, and always trying to figure out how to ride efficiently. One weakness now is fitness...and I could probably get a better result if I could get in better shape (I don't know if I could go any faster...but I could ride faster, for longer which would improve my results), but I'm probably going as fast now, as I ever have. And I take great joy in beating guys half my age...but I don't know that there is anything I can do that would get me to the level of speed my brother has.
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Falcon
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3/23/2022 8:21am
I was fast enough to know what "it" is, and smart enough to know I shouldn't go there in my late twenties. You must train and be fit, must have thousands of hours of practice, and have at least a well-tuned bike which is a competitive platform to compete on. Then, the real part is mental. You have to hope that all your training, practice and bike prep can withstand the enormous leaps of faith that your mental part will require, to go truly fast.
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mxfuture
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3/23/2022 8:47am
Breece just hit the top 10

and was lapped twice if I remember correctly! He's a local to these parts. When you see him ride in person it makes you ask yourself how TF can anyone beat that guy!

Let alone lap him twice!

Aliens! They're f'ing aliens!

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The Shop

rockyuno
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3/23/2022 9:01am
RACECRAFT?
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TalinH112
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3/23/2022 9:03am
Being fast is all about the start and hitting your marks, it’s also about knowing when you’re in a must situation. 😂
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5
RaceFace58
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3/23/2022 9:05am
Kyle978 wrote:
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a...
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a dude on here that’s 300+ lbs and goes better than probably 95% of the people on this board - under there is a gifted athlete.

There’s the mental toughness, ability to process things coming at you quickly, ability to overcome fear or turn it off, etc. but at the end of the day, IMO some people don’t physically have what it takes to move a motorcycle around the way you need to go fast.

I’ve heard a theory that some people process sensory input at different levels which allows them to have a faster reaction time. To them, even at warp speeds their mind is able to make it slower to them as they do it. A lot of speed has to do with getting used to the feeling of it happening. As a beginner most scared themselves at slow speeds just as much as they do when they make it to expert at much higher speeds. It’s an interesting topic
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RaceFace58
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3/23/2022 9:13am
Bruce372 wrote:
So if one works hard enough, can they write better songs than Lennon and McCartney? What about better paintings than Picasso? Natural talent is real IMO...
So if one works hard enough, can they write better songs than Lennon and McCartney? What about better paintings than Picasso?

Natural talent is real IMO and thats why the world is beautiful, because so many talents at so many different skills.

Even athletic performance is genetic, like the muscle composition of fast or slow twitch fibers.... Mark Cavendish is the most prolific bike sprinter the world has ever seen, but he struggles even to complete many tour stages.
You’re talking about work being the only thing that allows one to be the best on the planet. There are hundreds of thousands of people that have worked themselves into being fast. They need the other factors you mentioned though. An interesting thought is that the best MXer may never have ridden a motorcycle. The best guitarist ever may never have picked up a guitar. Michael Jordan was cut from his 7th grade basketball team, he could have quit playing.
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1
flarider
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3/23/2022 9:22am
I call it, "IT"

Some people have IT or they don't.

James Stewart and Jett are examples of having "IT"

Some have a different IT, that they can apply to succeed in MX, RC is an example of not really having the MX "IT" but having the heart and will of "It"....different, but it worked for him.

Same goes for almost any other sport, there are some who just have that tiny bit more of it.

When ever I go to a supercross race especially, I always try to keep in mind and tell those not familiar, that those guys flopping around in qualifying for the night shows, those guys are the track God somewhere. At their local track, they're track king, here, they look like amateur children at times. That's how wide the talent spread is from your local track to AMA Pro Supercross.

Those front guys, the elite guys, they have it

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flarider
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3/23/2022 9:24am
TalinH112 wrote:
Being fast is all about the start and hitting your marks, it’s also about knowing when you’re in a must situation. 😂
and a good start
1
3/23/2022 9:31am
Titan1 wrote:
Here is one example of why I think there is a "go fast gene" (or natural talent). I've ridden consistently since I was a kid...always had...
Here is one example of why I think there is a "go fast gene" (or natural talent). I've ridden consistently since I was a kid...always had a bike, always ridden. I have a younger brother that purchased his first bike when he was 27 years old. I was 31 years old at the time.

He started racing our local offroad series....first year owning a bike he's winning Novice (C class) overalls...moves up to Amateur (Cool , first year amateur hes finishing top 5-10th overall Amateur (and beating me)...second year racing amateur he's winning Amateur overalls...moves to Expert (A) after owning a bike four years...and is finishing in the top 10 overall (of everyone, including pro's)...as a guy racing 30+ Expert (Vet A)...he's beating pro's, beating A riders that are 10+ years younger than him, and winning Expert overalls.

Meanwhile...I raced Amateur for ever...best I could ever do was 7th overall Amateur. At 35 years old, I did move up to Expert, just because I was beating all the other old guys in Amateur...but I"m not where near the front of the Expert class like my brother is (best I've ever done, was 23rd overall, and 13th overall expert)...even though I have countless more hours on a bike than he does. (again this is a local off road series, with an average race participation of around 250/275 riders...so the talent isn't as deep as a national series).

He just has "it" (well, more of “it” than I have)...whatever "it" is...and I don't...

Granted, even as an old guy (I'm 41 years old), I'm still trying to improve...I've taken riding schools, focused on my technique, and always trying to figure out how to ride efficiently. One weakness now is fitness...and I could probably get a better result if I could get in better shape (I don't know if I could go any faster...but I could ride faster, for longer which would improve my results), but I'm probably going as fast now, as I ever have. And I take great joy in beating guys half my age...but I don't know that there is anything I can do that would get me to the level of speed my brother has.
I have the same example...

My older brother is so good at sports, naturally talented in a lot of things.

So me being younger I always looked up to him and I had to work harder to even try to compete with him in anything and I think that all that made me stronger, more focused in life in general.... He didn´t have to try or put effort and that made him kind of lazy because he knew he was so good at everything.

So I always tell him that I wish I had his natural talent with my comittment it would be perfect...

For me I am pretty good at driving (raced go karts locally and national) and everywhere I went I was beating the local kids with better equipment and stuff, it wasn´t hard it came natural buuuut eventually I was bored because it didn´t represent a challenge so when I started riding i was like DAMN!!! this is hard this is a freaking challenge and here I am not very good at MX but loving it so BAD because it´s so damn hard, every lap at a MX track you have to be focused, you are risking your health every second.

So right now after so many years I can beat my brother at MX but because everything I do on the week is thinking on the weekend. (sleep well, eat well, exercise) and I trained harder and more than him.. But I´m pretty sure that if him starts taking it a little more seriously he would beat me again haha

So yeah I believe there are people with natural talent, and combine that with hard work, comittment and there you have the best of the best.

PS: the daughter of my brother started riding and look her form, we didn´t have to give her instructions, she didn´t fall , she wasn´t scared at all (first day!!!) she has it IMO
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Phantom 661
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3/23/2022 10:16am
I remember me and the next door neighbor kid....who is now my step brother, both got new YZ Yamaha 125's in 1977 to replace both our 74 MX 125's. One night after attending an SX race at the Coliseum he starts seriously talking about wanting to becoming a pro racer. I'd been riding with him for a few years out in the desert and Gorman and knew there wasn't a chance in hell for him. He could ride decent enough and could actually corner pretty good but he had a limit that he wouldn't or couldn't go past. Our parents soon signed us up at Indian Dunes and Racing World and neither of us had ever raced. I think it was here that both of us recognized how different this was to riding and racing on makeshift tracks in the desert. He did pretty good. I faired better than he did partly from more riding experience..... but mostly because I could push that smoker harder with less fear. I mean if you're not capable enough to test a bikes balance or suspension and say streach out a 4rth and 5th gear wheelie for some feel on a 125 then you simply cannot expect to advance from there. I too got a quick lesson in how others could ride above my limits. The whole point is that you either have it in you to potentially reach Pro level or you don't. This kind of talent cannot be purchased or borrowed. I know this sounds corny but Clint Eastwood was right. "A man's got to know his limitations". Or should I say "lack of limitations" for this sport? Lol.
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mxracer666
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3/23/2022 10:34am
Different people have different inherent skill, abilities, and mindsets. It's outside of Moto, but look at Alex Honnold. He was able to free solo El Capitan...
Different people have different inherent skill, abilities, and mindsets. It's outside of Moto, but look at Alex Honnold. He was able to free solo El Capitan. One reason that he is able to do it is that his amygdala (part of the brain that controls fear response) doesn't respond the same way most people's respond. No matter how good a climber he was, if his amygdala response was "normal", he wouldn't be able to do all of the things he does.

Same with dopamine. Some people require more stimulation to get a dopamine response. This means they have to push themselves closer to the edge of disaster to get it. If you don't need high stimulation to get a dopamine response, you're not going to push as far.

Then there is fine motor skill, reaction time, spacial perception, memory, short vs long twitch muscles, sensory response, VO2 Max, etc. All of these things are going to affect how well you perform at any task. The best riders have the best combination of all of these things. Practice and training will get you closer to your maximum. But it won't get you to the level of someone else who is at their maximum and has a better set of traits than you.

A rider who is incredibly smooth may have better spacial awareness, reaction time and fine motor control than a rider with less finesse. But the second rider may have better muscle fiber ratio, VO2max, and less fear response. The different traits will affect how they approach going fast.

This is the correct answer...Everyone has a different set of skills that are inherently built into them, thus everyone has a "ceiling" on how fast they can be. Practice, training, physical toughness, mental ability, opportunities, and support all play into the big picture to maximize YOUR ceiling. Some people just have a better package of skills and are able to do it with far less effort. I agree that the "fastest" motocrosser on the planet may be a random guy that you pass on the street - he just has never been exposed to the sport and likely has no interest! Moto On!
2
lwtracer
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3/23/2022 10:51am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 10:57am
Talent cannot be learned. Skills can be learned. You can be a skilled rider but not necessarily a talented rider. You can learn enough skills to be close to those with natural talent. This is why riding schools are important, to teach you skills to close that gap to those with natural talent.

Road Racing has taught me that you must focus on learning every aspect of the game if you're not a natural talent. Learn technique, learn how the motorcycle works, learn how your body works while riding a motorcycle. I've seen so many riders who just go ride and instead of learning, they blame every single thing besides themselves.

I started racing motocross about 9 months ago. It was rough, last place, just ROUGH. But as I apply that same strategy as I did with road racing, things are progressing much faster than I thought. I'm not a natural talent but i've learn that if you put in the effort, you can get "pro" level fast by learning. (I don't ever plan on getting to that near pro level with MX)

Delusion is a massive issue. I find those that are delusional about their "talent" often end up on the ground and hurt or quitting the sport because their ego can't handle it. Be honest with yourself, know that you suck and you will always suck. Because you suck, you must learn to get fast the smart way.

Quick story about delusion. In one of my first MX races last season, off the start I was right behind a rider. I stayed behind him the entire race. The next moto we were on the line and he was talking to his dad. "I would have podiumed if I didn't get such a bad start". No... no he wouldn't have. We got 18th and 19th place. Moto 2, I finished right behind him again and we both got top 10 starts and went backwards finishing around the same place as Moto 1.

Can anyone get near "pro" level fast? No, because some people simply lack the mentality it takes to get there.
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RCMXracing
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3/23/2022 11:14am
Kyle978 wrote:
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a...
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a dude on here that’s 300+ lbs and goes better than probably 95% of the people on this board - under there is a gifted athlete.

There’s the mental toughness, ability to process things coming at you quickly, ability to overcome fear or turn it off, etc. but at the end of the day, IMO some people don’t physically have what it takes to move a motorcycle around the way you need to go fast.

Have you seen James or Ricky hoop? 🤣
Not exceptional athletes.
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McG194
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3/23/2022 11:24am
Kyle978 wrote:
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a...
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a dude on here that’s 300+ lbs and goes better than probably 95% of the people on this board - under there is a gifted athlete.

There’s the mental toughness, ability to process things coming at you quickly, ability to overcome fear or turn it off, etc. but at the end of the day, IMO some people don’t physically have what it takes to move a motorcycle around the way you need to go fast.

RCMXracing wrote:
Have you seen James or Ricky hoop? 🤣
Not exceptional athletes.
AC calls himself a horrible athlete.

Being an athlete is nowhere near as important as coordination and something no one has said but vision is a big deal.

I remember reading an article years ago about Formula 1 racers and they as a rule of thumb had better than 20/20 vision.
1
Falcon
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3/23/2022 11:31am
lwtracer wrote:
Talent cannot be learned. Skills can be learned. You can be a skilled rider but not necessarily a talented rider. You can learn enough skills to...
Talent cannot be learned. Skills can be learned. You can be a skilled rider but not necessarily a talented rider. You can learn enough skills to be close to those with natural talent. This is why riding schools are important, to teach you skills to close that gap to those with natural talent.

Road Racing has taught me that you must focus on learning every aspect of the game if you're not a natural talent. Learn technique, learn how the motorcycle works, learn how your body works while riding a motorcycle. I've seen so many riders who just go ride and instead of learning, they blame every single thing besides themselves.

I started racing motocross about 9 months ago. It was rough, last place, just ROUGH. But as I apply that same strategy as I did with road racing, things are progressing much faster than I thought. I'm not a natural talent but i've learn that if you put in the effort, you can get "pro" level fast by learning. (I don't ever plan on getting to that near pro level with MX)

Delusion is a massive issue. I find those that are delusional about their "talent" often end up on the ground and hurt or quitting the sport because their ego can't handle it. Be honest with yourself, know that you suck and you will always suck. Because you suck, you must learn to get fast the smart way.

Quick story about delusion. In one of my first MX races last season, off the start I was right behind a rider. I stayed behind him the entire race. The next moto we were on the line and he was talking to his dad. "I would have podiumed if I didn't get such a bad start". No... no he wouldn't have. We got 18th and 19th place. Moto 2, I finished right behind him again and we both got top 10 starts and went backwards finishing around the same place as Moto 1.

Can anyone get near "pro" level fast? No, because some people simply lack the mentality it takes to get there.
Great assessment. There are "naturals" and "workers." Jeff Stanton was a worker. It sounds like you are, too, as am I.
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Kyle978
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3/23/2022 11:55am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 12:06pm
Kyle978 wrote:
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a...
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a dude on here that’s 300+ lbs and goes better than probably 95% of the people on this board - under there is a gifted athlete.

There’s the mental toughness, ability to process things coming at you quickly, ability to overcome fear or turn it off, etc. but at the end of the day, IMO some people don’t physically have what it takes to move a motorcycle around the way you need to go fast.

RCMXracing wrote:
Have you seen James or Ricky hoop? 🤣
Not exceptional athletes.
Uhhh...shooting a basketball isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking exceptional fast twitch muscles, above average vo2 max, lower than average heart rate or ability to operate at an extreme heart rate (while still able to make good decisions and think clearly), lactic acid threshold, strength-to-weight ratio (watts per kilo is the cyclist calculation).

The shit you're born with, not a learned skill like basketball.

Steph Curry has a god given talent - there's studies that suggest his brain can process the information sent from the nerves in his palm and fingers in a superhuman way, allowing him to set up to shoot quicker than anyone else with extreme accuracy. This is a talent moto guys probably don't have. I can guarantee Curry also has everything I listed above - fast twitch muscles, high vo2 max, high lactic acid threshold etc. If he didn't have that, his basketball talent would be worthless.
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lwtracer
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3/23/2022 11:57am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 11:58am
lwtracer wrote:
Talent cannot be learned. Skills can be learned. You can be a skilled rider but not necessarily a talented rider. You can learn enough skills to...
Talent cannot be learned. Skills can be learned. You can be a skilled rider but not necessarily a talented rider. You can learn enough skills to be close to those with natural talent. This is why riding schools are important, to teach you skills to close that gap to those with natural talent.

Road Racing has taught me that you must focus on learning every aspect of the game if you're not a natural talent. Learn technique, learn how the motorcycle works, learn how your body works while riding a motorcycle. I've seen so many riders who just go ride and instead of learning, they blame every single thing besides themselves.

I started racing motocross about 9 months ago. It was rough, last place, just ROUGH. But as I apply that same strategy as I did with road racing, things are progressing much faster than I thought. I'm not a natural talent but i've learn that if you put in the effort, you can get "pro" level fast by learning. (I don't ever plan on getting to that near pro level with MX)

Delusion is a massive issue. I find those that are delusional about their "talent" often end up on the ground and hurt or quitting the sport because their ego can't handle it. Be honest with yourself, know that you suck and you will always suck. Because you suck, you must learn to get fast the smart way.

Quick story about delusion. In one of my first MX races last season, off the start I was right behind a rider. I stayed behind him the entire race. The next moto we were on the line and he was talking to his dad. "I would have podiumed if I didn't get such a bad start". No... no he wouldn't have. We got 18th and 19th place. Moto 2, I finished right behind him again and we both got top 10 starts and went backwards finishing around the same place as Moto 1.

Can anyone get near "pro" level fast? No, because some people simply lack the mentality it takes to get there.
Falcon wrote:
Great assessment. There are "naturals" and "workers." Jeff Stanton was a worker. It sounds like you are, too, as am I.
Nearly everyone is a worker (or should be a worker).

Problem you run into is you have the guys who work to be in shape and figure that's all it takes so they can ride incorrectly longer. Then you have the guys who work on riding but not the physical aspect and regardless of how effortless they ride, they wear out. The nerdy side of understanding your motorcycle isn't fun for everyone, but if they would learn it would help their brain understand the riding aspect better.

Every rider, regardless of skill level should work on fitness, technique, and understanding the physics of the motorcycle. Be an all-around worker if you want to reach your goals. I just think it's comical when guys don't want to do the work but want to be the fast guy. They throw money at the bike instead of throwing knowledge at their brain.

1
Kyle978
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3/23/2022 12:03pm
McG194 wrote:
AC calls himself a horrible athlete. Being an athlete is nowhere near as important as coordination and something no one has said but vision is a...
AC calls himself a horrible athlete.

Being an athlete is nowhere near as important as coordination and something no one has said but vision is a big deal.

I remember reading an article years ago about Formula 1 racers and they as a rule of thumb had better than 20/20 vision.
Vision is kind of covered in what I was saying about guys processing things quickly.

JS7 has talked about the days he felt untouchable, the track came at him extremely slow and he felt like he had all the time in the world to make the adjustments needed to go his maximum speed.
1
lwtracer
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3/23/2022 12:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 12:16pm
McG194 wrote:
AC calls himself a horrible athlete. Being an athlete is nowhere near as important as coordination and something no one has said but vision is a...
AC calls himself a horrible athlete.

Being an athlete is nowhere near as important as coordination and something no one has said but vision is a big deal.

I remember reading an article years ago about Formula 1 racers and they as a rule of thumb had better than 20/20 vision.
Kyle978 wrote:
Vision is kind of covered in what I was saying about guys processing things quickly. JS7 has talked about the days he felt untouchable, the track...
Vision is kind of covered in what I was saying about guys processing things quickly.

JS7 has talked about the days he felt untouchable, the track came at him extremely slow and he felt like he had all the time in the world to make the adjustments needed to go his maximum speed.
Some of the vision aspect comes from experience tho, from normalizing a speed. His brain was so use to going that fast that his mind could process everything.

You can relate it to anything in any sports. When I played my first game of college ice hockey, the speed of the game felt crazy, my eyes/mind could barely keep up. Fast forward one year, the speed was normalized, almost felt slow. Looking around was way easier on my mind to take it all in.

When I first rode a 200hp superbike, coming into a braking zone at 180mph felt absolutely insane. I hopped back on my 90hp race bike and I could instantly brake later because my eyes were already getting use to the warp speed of the superbike.

It's all about normalizing the speed to your eyes. We all have experienced this as we progress as riders. Faster you get the slower your old "fast" use to feel.
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flarider
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3/23/2022 1:38pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
I’ve heard a theory that some people process sensory input at different levels which allows them to have a faster reaction time. To them, even at...
I’ve heard a theory that some people process sensory input at different levels which allows them to have a faster reaction time. To them, even at warp speeds their mind is able to make it slower to them as they do it. A lot of speed has to do with getting used to the feeling of it happening. As a beginner most scared themselves at slow speeds just as much as they do when they make it to expert at much higher speeds. It’s an interesting topic
I agree 100% with this.

Example I used is imagine going to Daytona Speedway and riding with Dale Jr, doing 200MPH for a few laps.

Then you take over the exact same car and go out, but you can't go the same speed, your brain can't process those speeds the way he can.

For the top guys, when they get in the zone, it's how it is for us on the local freeway, it feels natural to them because they can process it, some better than others.

Some say that Dale Sr could "See air" and many believed it, still do. That is part of having "it." You are not born with it.

Some people can process things faster, this is why people like Tom Brady are #1. He can process everything faster and output it to his arm faster than anyone else. You can't train for that. You can't buy that.

We all have some gift, for some it's racing. No matter what they are in or on, they are fast, like Pichon or Vale.
Brad460
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Fantasy
3/23/2022 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2022 1:56pm
I think what is far more frustrating then us average guys not being as fast as we wish, is a guy who is fast enough to make sx/mx mains (meaning they have tons of skill on a mx bike), but are just 2-3 second a lap too slow. They are sooo close to success they can see it, but will likely never get there.

Us avg racers are so far away from success on a bike we cant even comprehend ..
1
jones618
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Claremore, OK US
3/23/2022 2:05pm
Really great feedback from everyone. Really enjoyed this thread. I was laying in bed last night feeling sorry for myself cause I don't have any real motocross accomplishments. So I made this post about what I was thinking and thought I was gonna lit up, saying I'm being a bitch and just go for it. But surprisingly it's been alot of insightful responses and I'm glad everyone tagged into the thread 💪
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flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
3/23/2022 2:05pm
Brad460 wrote:
I think what is far more frustrating then us average guys not being as fast as we wish, is a guy who is fast enough to...
I think what is far more frustrating then us average guys not being as fast as we wish, is a guy who is fast enough to make sx/mx mains (meaning they have tons of skill on a mx bike), but are just 2-3 second a lap too slow. They are sooo close to success they can see it, but will likely never get there.

Us avg racers are so far away from success on a bike we cant even comprehend ..
I can think of a few racers I know personally with names you recognize that if they worked 100% like RC did, their lives would be very different.

I heard riders go "Oh man, I busted my ass today" and we both know it's no where near as hard or disciplined as RC or ET3

Too many riders think an hour of play riding with a few heaters tossed in is a workout. Seen it. Been disappointed by it.

That extra inch to greatness is too far of a reach for some.
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Titan1
Posts
9415
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
3/23/2022 2:11pm
Racing Hare and Hounds...I'm on the same course at the same time as the factory guys...I feel fast-sometimes-and feel like I rode good...even have a good finish in my class (Vet A)...and then I look at the results and the factory guys finished like an hour in front of me. AN HOUR! In a 3 hour race...It's insane!
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT US
3/23/2022 2:19pm
Brad460 wrote:
I think what is far more frustrating then us average guys not being as fast as we wish, is a guy who is fast enough to...
I think what is far more frustrating then us average guys not being as fast as we wish, is a guy who is fast enough to make sx/mx mains (meaning they have tons of skill on a mx bike), but are just 2-3 second a lap too slow. They are sooo close to success they can see it, but will likely never get there.

Us avg racers are so far away from success on a bike we cant even comprehend ..
That’s an interesting topic too. If you ever find old Bob Hannah quotes interviews clips etc. He would comment on how riders who aren’t winning would say “I know what works for me” and his response was the hell you do because what you’re doing isn’t working. I remember when he was coaching for Yamaha and Mike Craig said Hannah took him running and Craig said he couldn’t hang, that he just ground him up.
kijen
Posts
1219
Joined
10/1/2010
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
3/23/2022 2:27pm
Jody wrote an article a long time ago, better to slow cause you can always get better and ride into old age. The fastest riders can only get slower as they age, get frustrated and stop riding. Seems to hold true and see that a lot of former pros dont ride. Shows the old pros who still ride, just love riding a dirt bike.
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RCMXracing
Posts
891
Joined
8/10/2011
Location
N., TX US
3/23/2022 2:42pm
Kyle978 wrote:
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a...
There’s not a “fast” person out there that isn’t an exceptional athlete, even if they don’t eat right or work out off the bike. There’s a dude on here that’s 300+ lbs and goes better than probably 95% of the people on this board - under there is a gifted athlete.

There’s the mental toughness, ability to process things coming at you quickly, ability to overcome fear or turn it off, etc. but at the end of the day, IMO some people don’t physically have what it takes to move a motorcycle around the way you need to go fast.

RCMXracing wrote:
Have you seen James or Ricky hoop? 🤣
Not exceptional athletes.
Kyle978 wrote:
Uhhh...shooting a basketball isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking exceptional fast twitch muscles, above average vo2 max, lower than average heart rate or ability to...
Uhhh...shooting a basketball isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking exceptional fast twitch muscles, above average vo2 max, lower than average heart rate or ability to operate at an extreme heart rate (while still able to make good decisions and think clearly), lactic acid threshold, strength-to-weight ratio (watts per kilo is the cyclist calculation).

The shit you're born with, not a learned skill like basketball.

Steph Curry has a god given talent - there's studies that suggest his brain can process the information sent from the nerves in his palm and fingers in a superhuman way, allowing him to set up to shoot quicker than anyone else with extreme accuracy. This is a talent moto guys probably don't have. I can guarantee Curry also has everything I listed above - fast twitch muscles, high vo2 max, high lactic acid threshold etc. If he didn't have that, his basketball talent would be worthless.
I understand what you’re saying, (didn’t down vote btw). I’m not sold on the athletic side of things when it comes to moto however.

If they start young, a certain amount of fearlessness (adrenaline junkie types) will rise to the top. Certainly hand eye coordination is important, and decent balance and basic athletic skills. (Some people can’t walk and chew gum)

At the pro level, factory guys, there’s something special for sure. A lot of it has got to be the ability to turn the brain off, no fear of death. Survival instinct makes mere mortals out of most of us right? The rest I believe can be built, stamina etc.
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Kyle978
Posts
1708
Joined
10/7/2013
Location
Dirt, NM US
3/23/2022 2:54pm
RCMXracing wrote:
I understand what you’re saying, (didn’t down vote btw). I’m not sold on the athletic side of things when it comes to moto however. If they...
I understand what you’re saying, (didn’t down vote btw). I’m not sold on the athletic side of things when it comes to moto however.

If they start young, a certain amount of fearlessness (adrenaline junkie types) will rise to the top. Certainly hand eye coordination is important, and decent balance and basic athletic skills. (Some people can’t walk and chew gum)

At the pro level, factory guys, there’s something special for sure. A lot of it has got to be the ability to turn the brain off, no fear of death. Survival instinct makes mere mortals out of most of us right? The rest I believe can be built, stamina etc.
I think we're probably on the same page more than we realize. I guess the compromise would be that you can't just have the physical gift, or the mental gift and be a top level pro - you need both.

My statements come from witnessing and being involved with a large sample size of riders who have every opportunity to make it - good bikes, good parent support, proper coaching etc. - which really exposes any lack of talent or work ethic. I've seen parents hiring mental coaches and therapists to try to help unlock potential, but at the end of the day their body physically would not allow them to perform the way they needed to get to their highest potential.

Look at the J-Law example - you could say he just had an incredible talent, ability to process information quickly etc. so he is more mentally talented. What I saw, was a dude who did no off the bike training, that would ride rough ass Glen Helen literally until his bike ran out of gas. That dude was a supremely gifted athlete, combined with the mental edge it took.
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