14 Years since riding a 4 stroke - What am I missing?

dinger212
Profile picture for user dinger212
Posts
353
Joined
1/21/2022
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
dinger212
Okay okay, hear me out. My last ride on a 4 stroke mx bike (I bought an 03 450 exc a few years ago. Not counting this given it’s age) was in 2008 aboard a friend’s Honda CRF250. Since then, I’ve been in & out of the racing/riding scene - always on a YZ125 or YZ250.

So my question: with these obviously much improved 250 & 450 4 strokes - WHAT AM I MISSING? Dumbass question, I’m sure, but enlighten me.

I will always be a 2 stroke fan, but I’m honestly quite curious to see what they offer. Debating on selling my 03 450 exc….maybe upgrade to something within this decade? These are the things people in the Midwest ponder over when it’s 0 degrees & you’re looking out your window dreaming of spring..

Not that anyone cares, but haven’t posted much here in Vital. Long time viewer. Used to be Dinger on ronronmx years ago. Thanks for any advice
7
|
deanwhite51
Profile picture for user deanwhite51
Posts
2702
Joined
10/5/2017
Location
Sydney AU
deanwhite51 2/7/2022 6:43pm
2/7/2022 6:43pm
mate.. Im a 2 stroke fan. But the newer gen 4 strokes are just so much easier, faster and so much better to ride haha
2 strokes will always be fun and give you a tinging feeling in your knackers. But the new 250f and 450's are just easier and faster
10
1
jridout12
Profile picture for user jridout12
Posts
404
Joined
4/23/2018
Location
IA US
jridout12 2/7/2022 6:46pm
2/7/2022 6:46pm
In my opinion the four stroke is easier to ride. Smoother power curve and you don't have to shift as much. Some tracks you can use the same gear the whole track. I'd still rather ride my 125 over my 250f though. The 125's are just too much fun
3
FARANG
Profile picture for user FARANG
Posts
861
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
AL US
FARANG 2/7/2022 7:42pm
2/7/2022 7:42pm
I was a die hard 2 stroke guy until about 4 years ago. I rode a friend's 250F and liked it so much I finally made the switch. The EFI is so good now, the bikes are so smooth and easy to ride. Reliability is greatly improved as well and the motors just seem so light and free and easy to rev compared to the early bikes.

I still have a 125 but I ride the 250F much more now.

1
2
AJ565
Profile picture for user AJ565
Posts
2328
Joined
3/12/2012
Location
San Antonio, TX US
AJ565 2/7/2022 7:51pm
2/7/2022 7:51pm
Being a 2 stoke guy myself that recently got a 4 stroke and the last one I owned was a ‘05 KTM 250f they have come a long way. I did ride a few 450’s and was very uncomfortable on them and was still pretty uncomfortable on a 21 KTM 250f. I rode a 350 a few years ago and gelled with it instantly so when I decided to get a 4 stroke to learn how to ride it to prepare to make a run at Loretta’s next year when I turn 40 I went with a 22 350. Ride it just like a 2 stroke and it rewards you. It really likes the revs. Try and find someone that has one that will let you spin some laps.
1
1

The Shop

See All »
Bineano
Profile picture for user Bineano
Posts
413
Joined
10/2/2012
Location
Whitecourt CA
Bineano 2/7/2022 7:55pm
2/7/2022 7:55pm Edited Date/Time 2/7/2022 7:57pm
Oddly enough, the only racing 4-stroke I have ever owned is an ‘08 CRF450. Love that thing, but otherwise 2-strokes for me 👍

Spring 2021, I ordered a 22 CRF450WE, received it mid Sept…
The gap wasn’t as large as I thought it would be, other than the motor. The new one pulls HARD,but the bike overall, felt a little “twitchy” compared to my ‘08 (dropping the forks solved that).
But the engine, yeah….

I’ve hit the age where I really, REALLY like that start button!

Still have the ‘08, and will bounce between them more this Spring to compare
3
Bultaco
Profile picture for user Bultaco
Posts
1745
Joined
1/20/2014
Location
Planet, VT US
Bultaco 2/7/2022 7:58pm
2/7/2022 7:58pm
Electric start, a few pounds and no jetting.
2
Dirt.Squirt
Profile picture for user Dirt.Squirt
Posts
1433
Joined
1/5/2022
Location
The Low-Dez, OR US
Dirt.Squirt 2/7/2022 8:43pm
2/7/2022 8:43pm
Traction, mapping and the button
bh
Profile picture for user bh
Posts
949
Joined
12/25/2016
Location
Piedmont, SC US
bh 2/8/2022 5:14am
2/8/2022 5:14am
Very usable broad power and no jetting. I’m a two stroke guy (yz250), mostly because they are simpler and built heavier/stronger than the modern four strokes (in the case of the yz250s). But the second I get out of college and start making decent money I will be buying a 250f. I miss the 4 stroke power.

On the other side I don’t really miss the inertial feeling of a 450. I had a 19 kx450 and could never feel consistent cornering from track to track. Some days it was amazing and some days it was terrible.
moto_on
Profile picture for user moto_on
Posts
74
Joined
1/26/2022
Location
San Diego, CA US
moto_on 2/8/2022 5:27am
2/8/2022 5:27am
dinger212 wrote:
Okay okay, hear me out. My last ride on a 4 stroke mx bike (I bought an 03 450 exc a few years ago. Not counting...
Okay okay, hear me out. My last ride on a 4 stroke mx bike (I bought an 03 450 exc a few years ago. Not counting this given it’s age) was in 2008 aboard a friend’s Honda CRF250. Since then, I’ve been in & out of the racing/riding scene - always on a YZ125 or YZ250.

So my question: with these obviously much improved 250 & 450 4 strokes - WHAT AM I MISSING? Dumbass question, I’m sure, but enlighten me.

I will always be a 2 stroke fan, but I’m honestly quite curious to see what they offer. Debating on selling my 03 450 exc….maybe upgrade to something within this decade? These are the things people in the Midwest ponder over when it’s 0 degrees & you’re looking out your window dreaming of spring..

Not that anyone cares, but haven’t posted much here in Vital. Long time viewer. Used to be Dinger on ronronmx years ago. Thanks for any advice
Nothing. Don't conform bro!
2
1
GingerSnapRacing 2/8/2022 8:03am
2/8/2022 8:03am
So I’ve gone back and forth. Had an 08 KTM 450 honestly great bike a few odd bits but whatever. Then went 05 yz250, 18 250sx, 14 450sxf now 19 150sx. Honestly for me it came to I enjoy the fun and challenge so I stick to 2 strokes. I do not hate 4 strokes I can ride them they are dang good in a lot of ways. Especially now that the engine breaking is a bit lighter than it used to be on many of them.

Rode a 22 crf450 great bike made me almost buy a 450 but in the end I only have enough time to ride one bike and the 2 strokes give me more smiles per gallon than the 4strokes.

New 4 strokes though just fire up and ride no bog, most have easy map changes, but tires change oil and ride them no drama for the most part which is freggin great.
2
38special
Profile picture for user 38special
Posts
656
Joined
6/30/2010
Location
US
38special 2/8/2022 8:17am
2/8/2022 8:17am
The new 4 strokes are good.... really good.

I'm faster on a late-model 250F than a 250 2-stroke (in all but perfect traction or deep sand), but ride the 2 strokes anyway because I just enjoy the experience more.

They're easier to work on, and I love getting race gas on my hands when I'm swapping brass.
6
Yz229
Profile picture for user Yz229
Posts
448
Joined
8/22/2018
Location
San Diego, CA US
Yz229 2/8/2022 8:21am
2/8/2022 8:21am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2022 8:29am
I have a very well set up Tom Morgan YZ315 (YZ250) stroker with A-kit, YZ450 swingarm, etc and just bought my first ever four stroke, a low hour 2020 YZ450F. I was in the same situation as you and was really curious about a new 450.

Won't compare the chassis and handling just yet because the YZ450 is getting Stapes re-valve right now. It does have Twin Air Power Flow kit and Slater vented airbox so possibly a little more power then stock.

I would say my two stroke has just as much power as the 450. Not as much John Deere tractor grunt down low, but the two stroke snaps clean on the bottom which makes it easy to switch lines and clear jumps out of corners. I tried TP3, TP5 and Magic map on the YZ450. Was actually having some issues at first clearing jumps right out of corners on the YZ450. The TP5 map seemed to help with this but still was easier on the two stroke for me.

It is cool being able to change maps on the fly, E-start is very nice as well as EFI. I will say, I haven't touched the jetting on my two stroke in two years. I love the old Keihin PWK's. Very consistent especially if you run C12.

I'm still learning the 450 and how to ride it efficiently. But I will say a well setup YZ250 two stroke is hard to beat especially if you are used to the way the two stoke makes power and handles. Granted, mine is set up very well. I was expecting the YZ450 to be very easy to ride but all in all, I actually was less tired on the two stroke and had way more fun.
1
Falcon
Profile picture for user Falcon
Posts
12285
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA US
Falcon 2/8/2022 8:21am
2/8/2022 8:21am
Yo Dinger! Good to see a RonRoner.

I recently rode a 2018 450F and I hated it even more than I used to. The funny thing is, even with all the modern advances, they still flame out, lock up the rear wheel, and send me over the handlebars. They are still 20 pounds heavier than my YZ250, and they still don't corner under power very well.

I am absolutely salivating to ride an electric bike, and I hope they are not more "4-strokey" than the 4-strokes. You'll really hear me start to complain then! Grinning Woohoo Grinning
1
2
ThePipe
Profile picture for user ThePipe
Posts
1836
Joined
8/2/2006
Location
Hell WI pop 1, WI US
ThePipe 2/8/2022 8:03pm
2/8/2022 8:03pm
They are still Garbage
You’re not missing anything

2
5
FlaNard
Profile picture for user FlaNard
Posts
3620
Joined
10/13/2009
Location
Layton, UT US
FlaNard 2/8/2022 8:21pm
2/8/2022 8:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2022 8:25pm
I haven’t ridden anything super new that’s a four stroke but I can say that when all of my friends made the switch to 450’s they either all became faster than me or much closer in speed (I’m on a pretty old RM250.) Our tracks in Utah are mostly concrete on practice days and a 450 just helps you find traction anywhere. They seem to be about the perfect moto weapon and I’ve yet to meet anyone who is slower on one. Plus, I got to witness so much carnage when the beginners figured out they didn’t need to know how to corner to jump things wayyyyyyy over their heads. Thumpers keep the helicopters busy.
2
Talisker
Profile picture for user Talisker
Posts
886
Joined
10/25/2018
Location
Houston, TX US
Talisker 2/8/2022 10:28pm
2/8/2022 10:28pm
I actually dropped down to a Yz250f after years of 450’s. More traction and just plain old easier to ride for longer. I grew up on 2 strokes. Now when i get on them, I don’t even know how I was able to ride those things.
1
2
Vet57
Profile picture for user Vet57
Posts
2489
Joined
12/13/2010
Location
BRO Town, MA US
Vet57 2/9/2022 3:06am
2/9/2022 3:06am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2022 3:07am
Love my YZ250Fs but my new YZ250 is a Fkn thrill ride. After riding 4 strokes for 10 years I forgot how much fun the 2 is. That is all...
2
RealityCheck
Profile picture for user RealityCheck
Posts
203
Joined
7/1/2012
Location
Davidsonville, MD US
RealityCheck 2/10/2022 12:47pm
2/10/2022 12:47pm
Bultaco wrote:
Electric start, a few pounds and no jetting.
This. My 4 stroke progression was from a new CRF450 in 2007, to a 2011 CRF250, to a 2014 KX450, to a 2019 KX450. I feel like the '07 CRF was just as good as the '19 KX, except no flame outs on the fuel injected KX. Electric start is nice, but not really a game changer. The 2014 and 2019 KX feel very similar, although the 2019's spring forks are better than the 2014's air forks.
In the end though, my 2019 450 usually ends up staying at home in the garage because my old 250 2-strokes (1996 and 2000 CR250s) are much more fun to ride
2

Pit Row

See All »
Leeham
Profile picture for user Leeham
Posts
1158
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
Rochester, WA US
Leeham 2/10/2022 1:12pm
2/10/2022 1:12pm
Todays 250Fs and 450s are pretty much the pinnacle. I cant imagine bikes getting THAT much better. So easy to ride, every one has their own character, and pretty much all bikes are fairly reliable except for those outliers. Love my YZ250F, makes me feel like a hero.
1
chump6784
Profile picture for user chump6784
Posts
1772
Joined
5/9/2011
Location
AU
chump6784 2/10/2022 3:56pm
2/10/2022 3:56pm
Yz229 wrote:
I have a very well set up Tom Morgan YZ315 (YZ250) stroker with A-kit, YZ450 swingarm, etc and just bought my first ever four stroke, a...
I have a very well set up Tom Morgan YZ315 (YZ250) stroker with A-kit, YZ450 swingarm, etc and just bought my first ever four stroke, a low hour 2020 YZ450F. I was in the same situation as you and was really curious about a new 450.

Won't compare the chassis and handling just yet because the YZ450 is getting Stapes re-valve right now. It does have Twin Air Power Flow kit and Slater vented airbox so possibly a little more power then stock.

I would say my two stroke has just as much power as the 450. Not as much John Deere tractor grunt down low, but the two stroke snaps clean on the bottom which makes it easy to switch lines and clear jumps out of corners. I tried TP3, TP5 and Magic map on the YZ450. Was actually having some issues at first clearing jumps right out of corners on the YZ450. The TP5 map seemed to help with this but still was easier on the two stroke for me.

It is cool being able to change maps on the fly, E-start is very nice as well as EFI. I will say, I haven't touched the jetting on my two stroke in two years. I love the old Keihin PWK's. Very consistent especially if you run C12.

I'm still learning the 450 and how to ride it efficiently. But I will say a well setup YZ250 two stroke is hard to beat especially if you are used to the way the two stoke makes power and handles. Granted, mine is set up very well. I was expecting the YZ450 to be very easy to ride but all in all, I actually was less tired on the two stroke and had way more fun.
For what it's worth, I didn't like any of the tp maps. To me they took too much bottom and then added too much mid. There is a thread in the tech help forum with different maps. I made my own that slightly tames the hit at the initial crack of the throttle ave then goes back to stock power. I use it everywhere in all conditions.

To the op, I was lifelong 2 stroke guy. Rode 125's and 250's for years then one day jumped on a mates 21 crf 450 and instantly dropped 2 seconds from my lap times. They make so much power and you can put it to the ground much easier
1
stone881
Profile picture for user stone881
Posts
856
Joined
12/26/2014
Location
Fruita, CO US
stone881 2/10/2022 8:20pm
2/10/2022 8:20pm
Bultaco wrote:
Electric start, a few pounds and no jetting.
RealityCheck wrote:
This. My 4 stroke progression was from a new CRF450 in 2007, to a 2011 CRF250, to a 2014 KX450, to a 2019 KX450. I feel...
This. My 4 stroke progression was from a new CRF450 in 2007, to a 2011 CRF250, to a 2014 KX450, to a 2019 KX450. I feel like the '07 CRF was just as good as the '19 KX, except no flame outs on the fuel injected KX. Electric start is nice, but not really a game changer. The 2014 and 2019 KX feel very similar, although the 2019's spring forks are better than the 2014's air forks.
In the end though, my 2019 450 usually ends up staying at home in the garage because my old 250 2-strokes (1996 and 2000 CR250s) are much more fun to ride
That 2007 was one of the best modern 4s, loved mine.

Post a reply to: 14 Years since riding a 4 stroke - What am I missing?