Data Acquisition in Sx/Mx

Motodave15 wrote:

Ok so I have a Information Technology background and am wondering how I could stop dealing with the regular corporate people and transition my I.t. Skills...

Ok so I have a Information Technology background and am wondering how I could stop dealing with the regular corporate people and transition my I.t. Skills into Racing industry (racing is my passion period). (Not limited to motocross either, I’d work for a nascar/Indycar/rally/f1 team in like .01 of a second)

Do any of the teams run Data Acquisition (Telemetry or otherwise) when practicing and need to use a cloud to hold the data and or getting that configured or live time data transmission of such things? If anybody has any insight into this it would be appreciated… side note, I’m going to start helping a off-road race team and I’m hoping to find a way to bring I.t data into the fold to learn more/progress.

Motodave15 wrote:

Ahh interesting ok, yeah you answered my question completely.

sandtrack315 wrote:

Check out Ducati, they have hired some data scientists. You’ll have to know machine learning, though. https://analyticsindiamag.com/ducati-goes-big-data-machine-learning-improve-motogp-bikes-testing-process/ I have thought about going this way, but I...

Check out Ducati, they have hired some data scientists. You’ll have to know machine learning, though.

https://analyticsindiamag.com/ducati-goes-big-data-machine-learning-imp…

I have thought about going this way, but I think the way to get paid less than working at a university is working on a race team…

ML512 wrote:

By example, when LITPro first became a big deal, they had a staff member or two go to the races and help track the data, store...

By example, when LITPro first became a big deal, they had a staff member or two go to the races and help track the data, store it, do reports, and display it for the teams. When it came down to the teams paying for their services, only KTM really kept their guys around...and that only lasted another year or two.

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

ML512 wrote:

By example, when LITPro first became a big deal, they had a staff member or two go to the races and help track the data, store...

By example, when LITPro first became a big deal, they had a staff member or two go to the races and help track the data, store it, do reports, and display it for the teams. When it came down to the teams paying for their services, only KTM really kept their guys around...and that only lasted another year or two.

mxtech1 wrote:

I would argue that KTM figured out how to use their own GPS sensor, tied directly to the factory ECU, and then combined it with ECU...

I would argue that KTM figured out how to use their own GPS sensor, tied directly to the factory ECU, and then combined it with ECU CAN data, which would provide for superior data collection system than what the LITPro guys could offer with only time-series based GPS data.

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

TheGetFresh wrote:

LitPro’s limitations centralize around the disconnect between the rider and bike. Knowing lap times, Gs, jump height, etc. is all really cool. I have one and...

LitPro’s limitations centralize around the disconnect between the rider and bike. Knowing lap times, Gs, jump height, etc. is all really cool. I have one and like playing with it. Beyond that it leaves you wanting for something that links to bike telemetry to let you really analyze technique and bike behavior. Knowing throttle position, gear, engine rpm, wheel speed, etc would add a ton of value, similar to what mxtech mentioned with the KTM ecu. This would even create additional product lines if they provided sensors. I bought the product originally because I thought this is the direction the company was going in, but that hasn’t been the case.

KurtJ99 wrote:

One of the challenges in collecting data is deciding what to do with it. In road racing there are less dimensions to analyze with a flat...

One of the challenges in collecting data is deciding what to do with it. In road racing there are less dimensions to analyze with a flat surface and traction conditions that are bounded. MX/SX tracks have changing track conditions both on different areas of the track and over time. Do you want to steer or track with the rear wheel? Can you infer the optimum tire pressure by understanding g forces, lean, and power transmitted? Or does your data tell you the obvious and 12 psi is about the same as 12.5? Tough to say but you can’t find out if it’s a differentiator unless you invest in the tech long term.

sandtrack315 wrote:

Check out Ducati, they have hired some data scientists. You’ll have to know machine learning, though. https://analyticsindiamag.com/ducati-goes-big-data-machine-learning-improve-motogp-bikes-testing-process/ I have thought about going this way, but I...

Check out Ducati, they have hired some data scientists. You’ll have to know machine learning, though.

https://analyticsindiamag.com/ducati-goes-big-data-machine-learning-imp…

I have thought about going this way, but I think the way to get paid less than working at a university is working on a race team…

Bruce372 wrote:

If you can do machine learning, get into biotech. You might help create the next Amgen or Genentech

Motodave15 wrote:

Ok so I have a Information Technology background and am wondering how I could stop dealing with the regular corporate people and transition my I.t. Skills...

Ok so I have a Information Technology background and am wondering how I could stop dealing with the regular corporate people and transition my I.t. Skills into Racing industry (racing is my passion period). (Not limited to motocross either, I’d work for a nascar/Indycar/rally/f1 team in like .01 of a second)

Do any of the teams run Data Acquisition (Telemetry or otherwise) when practicing and need to use a cloud to hold the data and or getting that configured or live time data transmission of such things? If anybody has any insight into this it would be appreciated… side note, I’m going to start helping a off-road race team and I’m hoping to find a way to bring I.t data into the fold to learn more/progress.

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

forensic wrote:

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains...

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains mostly stationary to the bike and the road surface is smooth and uniform. In those cases you can make good sense of logged data with just some on-board video to help with context. Motocross is difficult because of the rider-active nature, large movements of the rider's c.g. and large variances in forces on the handlebars and footpegs. To make sense of logged data you need to have lots of video and lots of measurements of the track surface, and then special software to combine the three data sources (logged data, track measurements, and external video).

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

forensic wrote:

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains...

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains mostly stationary to the bike and the road surface is smooth and uniform. In those cases you can make good sense of logged data with just some on-board video to help with context. Motocross is difficult because of the rider-active nature, large movements of the rider's c.g. and large variances in forces on the handlebars and footpegs. To make sense of logged data you need to have lots of video and lots of measurements of the track surface, and then special software to combine the three data sources (logged data, track measurements, and external video).

Richy wrote:

I'll be honest I work with ECU's, dashes, data loggers and the remainder of the electronics side, albeit mostly wiring and assembly nowadays and almost exclusively...

I'll be honest I work with ECU's, dashes, data loggers and the remainder of the electronics side, albeit mostly wiring and assembly nowadays and almost exclusively racecars.

I don't really understand why normal people want to see more tech in Motocross. As in not the teams hunting titles.

There are tonnes of high tech, mega money, mm motorsports and rarely does it lead to better racing and more fun for the majority of people involved.

I appreciate electric start as much as the next guy, sometimes, but the (relative) simplicity of a motocross bike is one of the things that makes them so cool in my humble opinion.

mxtech1 wrote:

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how...

In my opinion, Factory, and even satellite level teams, are years behind the curve in terms of what can be done with data acquisition and how interpretation of said data can be used to drive engineering decisions. Part of the reason why, is very few of the crew members, managers, and mechanics have exposure outside of the motocross industry as to what can actually be done with data analytics and how powerful it is. When you have an industry that tends to promote and hire from within the “bro” pool, you tend to hold onto tried and tried methods fro developing race bikes. If you take a sample of most major OEMs (auto, off-highway, power products, etc) every other industry is using data to drive business and in this day in age Big Data is just as important as hard iron, but I’m preaching to the choir if you come from an IT background.

I work as a test engineer and on a daily basis, deal with collecting, analyzing, and interpreting data. In our industry, it’s frowned upon to “engineer from the gut” meaning you better have data to support your decision. This mentality doesn’t exist in moto. It’s all by feel and rider to crew interpretation of what’s happening on the track. I truly feel the lack of data to drive decisions is why historically certain riders and teams are constantly chasing their tails throughout the season, looking for the magic combination of parts and setup. The bikes and riders are so competitive today, that we are getting to the point where splitting hairs on % setup improvement will be done with data and engineering, not what a rider “thinks” they feel. Not saying the rider element will ever be eliminated, but data can and should play a much bigger role.

I remember a story on pulp where KYB had collected some on-track suspension data. They brought over Honda CRF engineers, who were good engineers, but had NO IDEA how to interpret the on-track and what it meant. From the story, they spent a significant amount of time working with the rider and the KYB tech to gain a grip on what the data actually meant. Once they understood how to interpret the suspension data, they started making massive gains in performance. Proof that data enables hidden performance, as this example was Tomac’s final year on the Geico Honda 250 team where he absolutely murdered everyone on that bikes.

I see soo much potential for data acquisition in MX/SX. 32-bit ECUs, with input/output channels and CAN terminals, like the AiM Taipan, is a massive step-function in the right direction to simplify a data logging system. For the life of me, I can’t understand why the major Factory teams don’t employ some sort of a data analysis/mechanical engineer that is viewing every bit of data when the bikes come off the track. This would be a major advantage over time. When you transition from making decisions because of data, instead of off the cuff, you start getting millions and millions of data points, then you start modeling AI and ML models that can can trained to simulate the outcome of a change before a part is even swapped or a tuning adjust is made. Think about hours many hours of physical testing that would save. F1 has laid the groundwork for what’s possible, even if SX/MX would follow that model to even a fraction of a percentage, it would start to revolutionize how the teams are managed.

If you ever want to talk offline about starting some sort of 3rd party data service company, specifically targeted at MX/SX, hit me up. I could talk about this topic for days!!

forensic wrote:

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains...

I'm a mechanical engineer currently working on a personal project just like this. I've done a lot of testing on street bikes where the rider remains mostly stationary to the bike and the road surface is smooth and uniform. In those cases you can make good sense of logged data with just some on-board video to help with context. Motocross is difficult because of the rider-active nature, large movements of the rider's c.g. and large variances in forces on the handlebars and footpegs. To make sense of logged data you need to have lots of video and lots of measurements of the track surface, and then special software to combine the three data sources (logged data, track measurements, and external video).

ktmdan wrote:

I suppose you could put load cells in the bars, pegs, and a few in the seat. Combine that with some [url=https://www.swri.org/industry/biomechanics-human-performance/markerless-motion-capture-laboratory]markerless motion capture[/url] and you...

I suppose you could put load cells in the bars, pegs, and a few in the seat. Combine that with some markerless motion capture and you could come up with some useful data.

The problem is this would be overly complicated and extremely expensive. And at the end of the day does it really matter??? It's just dirt bikes after all...

backinthesaddleagain wrote:

I always thought it would be interesting to see an overlay of throttle position and rpm as a bike skims over the whoops. Assuming a 125...

I always thought it would be interesting to see an overlay of throttle position and rpm as a bike skims over the whoops. Assuming a 125 or 250F is WFO would like to see how revs move up and down as bike blitzes the whoops.

backinthesaddleagain wrote:

I always thought it would be interesting to see an overlay of throttle position and rpm as a bike skims over the whoops. Assuming a 125...

I always thought it would be interesting to see an overlay of throttle position and rpm as a bike skims over the whoops. Assuming a 125 or 250F is WFO would like to see how revs move up and down as bike blitzes the whoops.

kibby wrote:

[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/21/529723/s1200_Screenshot_158.jpg[/img]