The new performance fad - electric water pumps

MadsDausel 1/7/2022 2:02pm
1/7/2022 2:02pm
Richy wrote:
Does anyone know which pump they're using? (Star / BarX, not Honda). I fit DaviesCraig kits semi-regularly to race cars, they do a good few different...
Does anyone know which pump they're using? (Star / BarX, not Honda).

I fit DaviesCraig kits semi-regularly to race cars, they do a good few different sizes but I've never looked to see if they go this small, because for a car it would be pointless and when doing an additional auxiliary water pump I usually use a Bosch item supplied to OEM GM / VW.

Another cool thing, is you can set them to run on for a brief period after running to aid cool-down, probably not so beneficial for a bike but some troublesome car cylinder heads or turbos appreciate that. Also, they draw very low amperage from a 12v source so heat isn't really an issue, especially when exposed like on a bike.
the star and xpr look like a bosch from a mercedes or vw car :-)
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Gravel
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Gravel 1/7/2022 2:08pm
1/7/2022 2:08pm
Seems like the radiators could be smaller and lighter if the coolant pump was able to pump based on need, not just rpm. Plus simplifying the engine cases and piping.
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warpthonda1001 1/7/2022 2:10pm
1/7/2022 2:10pm
Richy wrote:
Does anyone know which pump they're using? (Star / BarX, not Honda). I fit DaviesCraig kits semi-regularly to race cars, they do a good few different...
Does anyone know which pump they're using? (Star / BarX, not Honda).

I fit DaviesCraig kits semi-regularly to race cars, they do a good few different sizes but I've never looked to see if they go this small, because for a car it would be pointless and when doing an additional auxiliary water pump I usually use a Bosch item supplied to OEM GM / VW.

Another cool thing, is you can set them to run on for a brief period after running to aid cool-down, probably not so beneficial for a bike but some troublesome car cylinder heads or turbos appreciate that. Also, they draw very low amperage from a 12v source so heat isn't really an issue, especially when exposed like on a bike.
I'd want the Honda one yes it makes power probably more than a polished transmission
Richy
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Richy 1/7/2022 2:21pm
1/7/2022 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 2:23pm
MadsDausel wrote:
the star and xpr look like a bosch from a mercedes or vw car :-)
May well be, I still use 'old' ones from VW 1.8T's and Vauxhall / Opel Omegas haha, I'll have to check out some modern cars, good call.

ML - Do you know what they're using as a controller? Stand alone digital controller under the seat with its own coolant temp sensor? A simple ignition live or ECU triggered one-speed on/off as these guys are flat out all the time? Just curious.

The DaviesCraig digital controller has electric waterpump and fan control built in, so something similar would be useful for Outdoor time / for Enduro guys.
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MyBobbym
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MyBobbym 1/7/2022 3:50pm
1/7/2022 3:50pm
The question I have is why didn't Manny invent this year's ago? Sheesh...
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BRX-WRX
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BRX-WRX 1/7/2022 4:40pm
1/7/2022 4:40pm
philG wrote:
If they want to reduce load, then run the bikes on total loss ignition.

Remove the flywheel and just have a trigger ring.
Back in 1972 Ironhorse CZ out of Fort Scott Ks. Derel Reager and John Hall removed the flywheel on the 125cz and put a battery in the airbox.for Joe Burke to race. He did prety good on it but then BJ's Suzuki & Can-Am picked him up with a Can-Am ride.
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mxav8r
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mxav8r 1/7/2022 4:45pm
1/7/2022 4:45pm
When I first saw this ad for a AiM sports ECU (btw I think this ECU REALLY needs to be looked at ML512) showing a water pump I was confused... What does an electric water pump have to do with motocross?!? Well.... now I know.

Screenshot from AiM Tiapan ECU product page:


ECU controlled electric water pump... pretty cool and looks to be the same brand/type as seen in the pits (Bosch).

AiM sports ECU link

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96motorhead
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96motorhead 1/7/2022 5:23pm
1/7/2022 5:23pm
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and recharge/swap the battery each race? I'm not even sure how long a battery would run one of these bikes for?
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Patrick Potato 1/7/2022 5:30pm
1/7/2022 5:30pm
philG wrote:
If they want to reduce load, then run the bikes on total loss ignition.

Remove the flywheel and just have a trigger ring.
I’ve run them on roadrace bikes and one drawback I see for Moto is the lack of flywheel weight which I think would negate the value in terms of tractability.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 1/7/2022 5:31pm
1/7/2022 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 5:35pm
Jardo wrote:
Its not really that big of a deal but they added these flat plastics over the rear master cylinder and then duplicated it on the other...
Its not really that big of a deal but they added these flat plastics over the rear master cylinder and then duplicated it on the other side of the bike as well. Like I said, not a huge deal but shows that they're trying to think outside the box and take care of their riders needs.
Good eye, I didn’t even realize they did it on both sides, just thought it was a guard for the master cylinder. More surface area for the boots to grip to… Genius!
downonmonday 1/7/2022 7:05pm
1/7/2022 7:05pm
I had one in my drag car. Every little bit helps!
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FHKRacingZ
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FHKRacingZ 1/7/2022 7:14pm
1/7/2022 7:14pm
96motorhead wrote:
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and...
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and recharge/swap the battery each race? I'm not even sure how long a battery would run one of these bikes for?
The stator produces enough energy.

It doesn’t add peak HP but it does add midrange.
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soggy
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soggy 1/7/2022 7:16pm
1/7/2022 7:16pm
96motorhead wrote:
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and...
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and recharge/swap the battery each race? I'm not even sure how long a battery would run one of these bikes for?
Yea they just remove the serpentine belt to take it out of play.
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FHKRacingZ
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FHKRacingZ 1/7/2022 7:25pm
1/7/2022 7:25pm
96motorhead wrote:
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and...
Do the factory teams not run an alternator or just disconnect it? I'm wondering if they just run the entire bike off of battery power and recharge/swap the battery each race? I'm not even sure how long a battery would run one of these bikes for?
It’s called a stator, welcome to dirt bikes...
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 1/7/2022 10:38pm
1/7/2022 10:38pm
mxav8r wrote:
When I first saw this ad for a AiM sports ECU (btw I think this ECU REALLY needs to be looked at ML512) showing a water...
When I first saw this ad for a AiM sports ECU (btw I think this ECU REALLY needs to be looked at ML512) showing a water pump I was confused... What does an electric water pump have to do with motocross?!? Well.... now I know.

Screenshot from AiM Tiapan ECU product page:


ECU controlled electric water pump... pretty cool and looks to be the same brand/type as seen in the pits (Bosch).

AiM sports ECU link

No one is talking about the capabilities and options Aim is unlocking with that 32-bit core ECU. That alone is a noteworthy step function improvement in ECU technology and brings data acquisition and CAN communication to the next level.
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Austin_Rankin 1/7/2022 10:42pm
1/7/2022 10:42pm
Polini 50cc bikes did a waterpump based off the countershaft , when the bike moved it pumped water when it didnt move it didnt pump water, was a wild design, kinda made me think about it seeing this post.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 1/7/2022 10:58pm
1/7/2022 10:58pm
In theory it sounds like it could help reduce some engine failures and keep peak horsepower levels. That being said, I want to see some dyno results. Someone leak them!
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Bnagazina 1/7/2022 11:13pm
1/7/2022 11:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 11:14pm
Jardo wrote:
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527229/s1200_7968C5B3_65E9_414F_9535_51067D42AE2F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527230/s1200_262B23D1_E14A_493B_9290_1019988DCF7E.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527231/s1200_C44152E0_FD5B_4931_8661_4D4E4E18E578.jpg[/img] *these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this:






*these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
Money wrote:
What have they done?
Jardo wrote:
Its not really that big of a deal but they added these flat plastics over the rear master cylinder and then duplicated it on the other...
Its not really that big of a deal but they added these flat plastics over the rear master cylinder and then duplicated it on the other side of the bike as well. Like I said, not a huge deal but shows that they're trying to think outside the box and take care of their riders needs.
I thought the big change was the hydro clutch on Hunters crf250r
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#434
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#434 1/9/2022 1:52pm
1/9/2022 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/9/2022 1:59pm
With the electric water pump they can, as mentioned, choose the direction of flow. What’s the benefit of changing the flow direction? Giving the cylinder head the cool water first?
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lostboy819 1/9/2022 2:16pm
1/9/2022 2:16pm
#434 wrote:
With the electric water pump they can, as mentioned, choose the direction of flow. What’s the benefit of changing the flow direction? Giving the cylinder head...
With the electric water pump they can, as mentioned, choose the direction of flow. What’s the benefit of changing the flow direction? Giving the cylinder head the cool water first?
Its for when they race south of the equator.
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#434
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#434 1/9/2022 2:30pm
1/9/2022 2:30pm
#434 wrote:
With the electric water pump they can, as mentioned, choose the direction of flow. What’s the benefit of changing the flow direction? Giving the cylinder head...
With the electric water pump they can, as mentioned, choose the direction of flow. What’s the benefit of changing the flow direction? Giving the cylinder head the cool water first?
lostboy819 wrote:
Its for when they race south of the equator.
Ah! Like in the Simpson episode where Bart‘s calling the Aussie folks!

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Skerby
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Skerby 1/9/2022 4:51pm
1/9/2022 4:51pm
Guys have been running total loss ignition for years on jet skis. Battery will crank for 30+2 easy.
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bite_the_curb 1/9/2022 8:01pm
1/9/2022 8:01pm
i beleive the prius and other hybrids use similar stuff...electric water pumps and whatnot.

pretty cool though, but how much of a drag is it on the engine? i could see if it was like an AC system or something but ..
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Brett_Clark
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Brett_Clark 1/9/2022 11:55pm
1/9/2022 11:55pm
For the ones that think there isn't any benefits to the electric water pump clearly don't understand these teams have proved they are a benefit to run. Star Yamaha has the baddest 250 on the gate and deleting that mechanical load made it better. Xpr is a well known engine company. They aren't throwing this on for show. The old school drag guys in here know all about eliminating engine loads. Rather it's running the alternator off the pinion, electric water pumps, electric over hydraulic steering, dry sump oil systems etc. It all makes a difference in the engines performance. This is technology that we will see standard on mx bikes in the years to come.
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Lasse
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Lasse 1/10/2022 2:17am
1/10/2022 2:17am
Brett_Clark wrote:
For the ones that think there isn't any benefits to the electric water pump clearly don't understand these teams have proved they are a benefit to...
For the ones that think there isn't any benefits to the electric water pump clearly don't understand these teams have proved they are a benefit to run. Star Yamaha has the baddest 250 on the gate and deleting that mechanical load made it better. Xpr is a well known engine company. They aren't throwing this on for show. The old school drag guys in here know all about eliminating engine loads. Rather it's running the alternator off the pinion, electric water pumps, electric over hydraulic steering, dry sump oil systems etc. It all makes a difference in the engines performance. This is technology that we will see standard on mx bikes in the years to come.
Whether it be mechanically driven or by electricity, the work has to come from somewhere, making it electrial will increase the resistance in the electric system, nothing is for free.
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Talisker
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Talisker 1/10/2022 2:33am
1/10/2022 2:33am
Cool to see on factory bikes. I hope this does not trickle down to production. There is already enough electrical stuff that can possibly go out.
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ns503
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ns503 1/10/2022 2:51am
1/10/2022 2:51am
Brett_Clark wrote:
For the ones that think there isn't any benefits to the electric water pump clearly don't understand these teams have proved they are a benefit to...
For the ones that think there isn't any benefits to the electric water pump clearly don't understand these teams have proved they are a benefit to run. Star Yamaha has the baddest 250 on the gate and deleting that mechanical load made it better. Xpr is a well known engine company. They aren't throwing this on for show. The old school drag guys in here know all about eliminating engine loads. Rather it's running the alternator off the pinion, electric water pumps, electric over hydraulic steering, dry sump oil systems etc. It all makes a difference in the engines performance. This is technology that we will see standard on mx bikes in the years to come.
Lasse wrote:
Whether it be mechanically driven or by electricity, the work has to come from somewhere, making it electrial will increase the resistance in the electric system...
Whether it be mechanically driven or by electricity, the work has to come from somewhere, making it electrial will increase the resistance in the electric system, nothing is for free.
What if the electric system is already making way more juice than would be needed to run a water pump?
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