Fork and shock coatings

jonahc_42
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Parker, CO US
Edited Date/Time 10/22/2021 3:43pm
Hey guys I’m looking at getting my forks rebuilt and then maybe get them dlc coated. Two questions, first is getting them coated worth it? Second which company’s are best for the coatings?
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soggy
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UT US
10/20/2021 8:24pm
Kashima is king but gotta send your shit to japan for the real deal. If you got money to burn it might be worth it, or just want some garage porn to look at but for performance reasons I don’t think so.
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1
mxb2
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Bowie, MD US
10/20/2021 8:32pm
soggy wrote:
Kashima is king but gotta send your shit to japan for the real deal. If you got money to burn it might be worth it, or...
Kashima is king but gotta send your shit to japan for the real deal. If you got money to burn it might be worth it, or just want some garage porn to look at but for performance reasons I don’t think so.
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends. I suggest do it when you wont be riding for awhile.
1
B Lenny
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10/20/2021 8:52pm
mxb2 wrote:
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends...
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends. I suggest do it when you wont be riding for awhile.
Pic?...Cool
3
Chippy
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Santa Cruz, CA US
10/20/2021 8:54pm
Yeah after having learned about true kashima coating not being done within the US I don't see it worth it to do the fork uppers on my bike. It looks bitchin though.
I believe MX tech sends their stuff out to Japan for kashima coating so you may be better off just going through them and getting that National Shock.

The Shop

mxb2
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10/20/2021 9:01pm
mxb2 wrote:
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends...
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends. I suggest do it when you wont be riding for awhile.
B Lenny wrote:
Pic?...Cool

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JMX82
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10/20/2021 10:08pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2021 10:14pm
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new oem seals and bushings. The difference in friction is huge

44
Juck
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Fantasy
10/20/2021 11:23pm
JMX82 wrote:
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new...
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new oem seals and bushings. The difference in friction is huge

Wow, that's a much bigger difference than I would've thought
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10/21/2021 2:03am
JMX82 wrote:
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new...
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new oem seals and bushings. The difference in friction is huge

Kawi run thin cheap DLC on their showas.
JMX82
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10/21/2021 2:34am
Kawi run thin cheap DLC on their showas.
I don't know anything about Kawi forks. DLC coated fork is from my friends bike and stock one is from local young talents bike who has been struggling with his suspension setup this season
murph783
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10/21/2021 3:19am
JMX82 wrote:
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new...
On the left is stock Yamaha fork tube without coating and on the right is stock Yamaha fork tube with DLC coating. Both have brand new oem seals and bushings. The difference in friction is huge

Okay that’s super impressive
luke11
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10/21/2021 4:35am
Here’s a question someone smarter than me may be able to answer, why can’t/isn’t anyone doing kashima coating outside of Japan? Gap in the market.

Also I think for performance it’s not value for money but let’s be honest we all get our stuff coated because it looks the dogs bollocks!
1
philG
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10/21/2021 1:46pm
JMX82 wrote:
I don't know anything about Kawi forks. DLC coated fork is from my friends bike and stock one is from local young talents bike who has...
I don't know anything about Kawi forks. DLC coated fork is from my friends bike and stock one is from local young talents bike who has been struggling with his suspension setup this season
He isnt struggling with his suspension because the legs arent DLC coated.

As with all the top line stuff, everything is about getting the parts to be as close to perfect as possible, and that means tighter tolerances on the parts, That is how you get the repeatability in the build, and from that the repeatability of the performance.

We have run DLC coated parts in the past in engines, and lets you push parts a little bit more, with a lower chance of failure. Rockers, pivots, gudgeon pins, and superfinishing of gears and selectors, all makes things better.

Just adding the coating isnt enough, you need to go all in with everything.


7
10/21/2021 2:50pm
JMX82 wrote:
I don't know anything about Kawi forks. DLC coated fork is from my friends bike and stock one is from local young talents bike who has...
I don't know anything about Kawi forks. DLC coated fork is from my friends bike and stock one is from local young talents bike who has been struggling with his suspension setup this season
philG wrote:
He isnt struggling with his suspension because the legs arent DLC coated. As with all the top line stuff, everything is about getting the parts to...
He isnt struggling with his suspension because the legs arent DLC coated.

As with all the top line stuff, everything is about getting the parts to be as close to perfect as possible, and that means tighter tolerances on the parts, That is how you get the repeatability in the build, and from that the repeatability of the performance.

We have run DLC coated parts in the past in engines, and lets you push parts a little bit more, with a lower chance of failure. Rockers, pivots, gudgeon pins, and superfinishing of gears and selectors, all makes things better.

Just adding the coating isnt enough, you need to go all in with everything.


So if you’re going all in on suspension with valving, coatings, spring seats, machined caps and fork bases, etc. wouldn’t you be better off just buying a set of kit suspension?

If I understand your point, I think I agree with it. Coatings alone are expensive and don’t do much on their own, so you need to spend a lot on other suspension components. At that point buy kit suspension. Why even both coating the stock stuff?
JMX82
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10/21/2021 8:30pm
philG wrote:
He isnt struggling with his suspension because the legs arent DLC coated. As with all the top line stuff, everything is about getting the parts to...
He isnt struggling with his suspension because the legs arent DLC coated.

As with all the top line stuff, everything is about getting the parts to be as close to perfect as possible, and that means tighter tolerances on the parts, That is how you get the repeatability in the build, and from that the repeatability of the performance.

We have run DLC coated parts in the past in engines, and lets you push parts a little bit more, with a lower chance of failure. Rockers, pivots, gudgeon pins, and superfinishing of gears and selectors, all makes things better.

Just adding the coating isnt enough, you need to go all in with everything.


I don't think that is the case with low hour bike and lightweight rider. But everyone is free to make their own conclusions
nskerb
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Kelso, WA US
10/21/2021 8:44pm
Frame or bust.

In all reality I think the difference between DLC and Kashima is an arbitrarily small %.


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dancolvin633
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10/21/2021 8:58pm
Not a lot of people know this, but the Showa Kawasaki upper tubes have a technology inside the tube called Dimplush. It’s actually better then Kashima. when you send a set of newer upper tubes out for Kashima you actually make them worse. Anyhow, the stock Kawi upper tubes with the stock DLC lowers you have a pretty good set up. Aluminart Anodizing in SoCal does a Bitchen Kashima ano on the outside of the tube that esthetically looks awesome and you have the good benefits of the stock Showa Kawi tubes and lowers to boot.
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c0ncEpT
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10/22/2021 7:38am Edited Date/Time 11/3/2021 8:12pm
I had the lower legs on my AER48 DLC coated by Industrial Hard Carbon in Denver NC. They do DLC for most of the race teams .

Turned out amazing and the price was decent.
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Premix
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10/22/2021 9:28am
Not a lot of people know this, but the Showa Kawasaki upper tubes have a technology inside the tube called Dimplush. It’s actually better then Kashima...
Not a lot of people know this, but the Showa Kawasaki upper tubes have a technology inside the tube called Dimplush. It’s actually better then Kashima. when you send a set of newer upper tubes out for Kashima you actually make them worse. Anyhow, the stock Kawi upper tubes with the stock DLC lowers you have a pretty good set up. Aluminart Anodizing in SoCal does a Bitchen Kashima ano on the outside of the tube that esthetically looks awesome and you have the good benefits of the stock Showa Kawi tubes and lowers to boot.
Jerry’s done a couple sets on my bikes. He masks the insides. Always comes out nice.



9
philG
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10/22/2021 10:10am
So if you’re going all in on suspension with valving, coatings, spring seats, machined caps and fork bases, etc. wouldn’t you be better off just buying...
So if you’re going all in on suspension with valving, coatings, spring seats, machined caps and fork bases, etc. wouldn’t you be better off just buying a set of kit suspension?

If I understand your point, I think I agree with it. Coatings alone are expensive and don’t do much on their own, so you need to spend a lot on other suspension components. At that point buy kit suspension. Why even both coating the stock stuff?
Yes.

Because you are getting the full deal.

I have a set of full factory Marzocchi's Supermoto Forks from 2012, that money couldnt buy back then, and they have been on 5 bikes, becasue whatever you do to the newer forks, you cant get them to be as good as these, simply because the mass produced bits just dont work as well.

At the time these were made, you could buy the whole stock bike for the same price.

What tends to happen, is folk spend a shit ton of money on getting DLC coatings done, and get their forks rebuilt, and then think they are better becasue they must be. .

I doubt there is anyone who could tell if a bike has DLC coated legs or not , just by riding it.

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xrclark433
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10/22/2021 10:33am
I raced mountain bikes for long time and when I got back into moto I was so confused why Kashmia coating was on the upper. Is it just for looks or what??
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Timo
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10/22/2021 10:46am
xrclark433 wrote:
I raced mountain bikes for long time and when I got back into moto I was so confused why Kashmia coating was on the upper. Is...
I raced mountain bikes for long time and when I got back into moto I was so confused why Kashmia coating was on the upper. Is it just for looks or what??
It's an anodizing process, the uppers are aluminum. You can't do it to the lowers because they are chrome plated steel. Anodizing, titanium nitride, and DLC are done to make the surfaces harder, lessening the friction. The uppers have the inner bushing on the top of the sliders dragging on them. The lowers have the outer bushing and seals dragging on them.
jonahc_42
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10/22/2021 11:10am
Not a lot of people know this, but the Showa Kawasaki upper tubes have a technology inside the tube called Dimplush. It’s actually better then Kashima...
Not a lot of people know this, but the Showa Kawasaki upper tubes have a technology inside the tube called Dimplush. It’s actually better then Kashima. when you send a set of newer upper tubes out for Kashima you actually make them worse. Anyhow, the stock Kawi upper tubes with the stock DLC lowers you have a pretty good set up. Aluminart Anodizing in SoCal does a Bitchen Kashima ano on the outside of the tube that esthetically looks awesome and you have the good benefits of the stock Showa Kawi tubes and lowers to boot.
Premix wrote:
Jerry’s done a couple sets on my bikes. He masks the insides. Always comes out nice. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/22/515496/s1200_04D5AD59_E78C_4324_B2DD_479F139C2D71.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/22/515501/s1200_EDBF0DB1_44DC_4660_BC98_BF21FB676D67.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/22/515498/s1200_8F5651C8_25E1_46E1_B3FB_AD8722B83BFA.jpg[/img]
Jerry’s done a couple sets on my bikes. He masks the insides. Always comes out nice.



That kawi is clean! More pictures?
Premix
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10/22/2021 11:12am
jonahc_42 wrote:
That kawi is clean! More pictures?
In my bike checks
xrclark433
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10/22/2021 1:39pm
Timo wrote:
It's an anodizing process, the uppers are aluminum. You can't do it to the lowers because they are chrome plated steel. Anodizing, titanium nitride, and DLC...
It's an anodizing process, the uppers are aluminum. You can't do it to the lowers because they are chrome plated steel. Anodizing, titanium nitride, and DLC are done to make the surfaces harder, lessening the friction. The uppers have the inner bushing on the top of the sliders dragging on them. The lowers have the outer bushing and seals dragging on them.
I understand what it is. I had all my mtb suspension kashima coated. So the inside of the upper is coated as well? On a bicycle you coat the stanchions for Less friction and better feel. Am I stupid or just not seeing the reason to kashima coat the outside of your fork tube. Is it just for looks? Genuinely don’t understand
philG
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10/22/2021 1:46pm
xrclark433 wrote:
I understand what it is. I had all my mtb suspension kashima coated. So the inside of the upper is coated as well? On a bicycle...
I understand what it is. I had all my mtb suspension kashima coated. So the inside of the upper is coated as well? On a bicycle you coat the stanchions for Less friction and better feel. Am I stupid or just not seeing the reason to kashima coat the outside of your fork tube. Is it just for looks? Genuinely don’t understand
All for looks.

Personally all the modern fad for Ceratcoating everything is lost on me for the average guy.

Some people use the excuse that it helps to protect stuff, but honestly, these days , tracks that destroy bikes are few and far between compared to how it used to be.

2
xrclark433
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10/22/2021 1:48pm
philG wrote:
All for looks. Personally all the modern fad for Ceratcoating everything is lost on me for the average guy. Some people use the excuse that it...
All for looks.

Personally all the modern fad for Ceratcoating everything is lost on me for the average guy.

Some people use the excuse that it helps to protect stuff, but honestly, these days , tracks that destroy bikes are few and far between compared to how it used to be.

That’s what I thought. Kashima isn’t cheap by any means at all. Seems pretty stupid to pay a ton of money to coat the OUTSIDE of your fork. That stuff is easy as hell to chip off or scratch
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B Lenny
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Inglewood, CA US
10/22/2021 1:50pm
mxb2 wrote:
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends...
X2 got mine dlc and kashima,factory connection sent my top fork tubes for kashima..turnaround time wasnt bad. But now. Who knows. Looks badazz on both ends. I suggest do it when you wont be riding for awhile.
B Lenny wrote:
Pic?...Cool
mxb2 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/20/515293/s1200_IMG_20170809_172238854.jpg[/img]

Nice...Cool
philG
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10/22/2021 2:16pm
xrclark433 wrote:
That’s what I thought. Kashima isn’t cheap by any means at all. Seems pretty stupid to pay a ton of money to coat the OUTSIDE of...
That’s what I thought. Kashima isn’t cheap by any means at all. Seems pretty stupid to pay a ton of money to coat the OUTSIDE of your fork. That stuff is easy as hell to chip off or scratch
I spent 15 years in Pro Motorsport, and we paid a lot of attention to coatings and finishes, Superfinishing of gears and Balanit C coating ( its a proprietry DLC process) is pretty standard, you can see the HP on the dyno ( well you could in the beginning, now it just gets done), and lots of attention is paid to stuff like coastdown, which it the measurement of the reemoval of friction.. On WRC cars we would run to 100 KMh and then just push the clutch in and see how long it went till it stopped. We doubled the distance it would go, just be changing brake piston coating and seal material.

We even went as far as making our own shocks on the Rally car , but that was a disaster becasue the engineering team went mental and designed something that was impossible to make to the tolerances that would give you the ability to build 4 dampers out of the same bits , and get them even remotely close to the same spec.

It was all Hard anodised , properly coated, and made by proper people, but it was a clutserfuck, we needed to alter the spec for one rally to stiffen them up , and as the system, was more holes than shims, and you couldnt make the holes smaller, so they had to remake a ton of parts.. cost £28000, and we could have done the same on the Ohlins they were trying to be better than for £12.

Honestly, Cycling, and MTB stuff, at the top level is pretty high tech even by F1 standards, and even the tiniest bit can help.


3
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
10/22/2021 2:27pm
xrclark433 wrote:
That’s what I thought. Kashima isn’t cheap by any means at all. Seems pretty stupid to pay a ton of money to coat the OUTSIDE of...
That’s what I thought. Kashima isn’t cheap by any means at all. Seems pretty stupid to pay a ton of money to coat the OUTSIDE of your fork. That stuff is easy as hell to chip off or scratch
Lol. People pay to coat the inside of their uppers, and it doesn't cost any more to coat the outside at the same time. Possibly less because less prep.
1
Sandusky26
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10/22/2021 3:43pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
I had the lower legs on my AER48 DLC coated by Industrial Hard Carbon in Denver NC. They do DLC for most of the race teams...
I had the lower legs on my AER48 DLC coated by Industrial Hard Carbon in Denver NC. They do DLC for most of the race teams .

Turned out amazing and the price was decent.
Finding this out makes me want to coat mine.

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