Works Chassis Lab Update (a positive one)

LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
9/5/2021 9:43am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2021 9:46am
I didn't justify shit pal, I did get a jab in on guys who think some mount is going to make them faster though....here's a speed tip, the throttle is on the right, twist it farther.

The fact that you think maybe THOUSANDS of people are in the same situation as you shows that you don't have a grasp on reality. Being that you are from Utah I supposed I should cut you some slack in that department though.....

It does suck what happened, I'd be pissed if I was out my money too but to think it's 100% ML and not anyone else who was involved in the business is pretty ignorant in my opinion.

Why you taking this Scot guys word as gospel? To date it doesn't seem he's followed through either....


*I'm out, I don't have a dog in this fight*
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9/5/2021 9:46am
ML512 wrote:
You’re completely right sir. I caused my own pain here with my lack of communication and inability to complete the job at hand. I bit off...
You’re completely right sir. I caused my own pain here with my lack of communication and inability to complete the job at hand.

I bit off more than I could chew with the team and trying to help run a business. At the end of it all my reputation has been damaged to an extent that scares me as a person who truly only wants to do good for the industry and Moto community. I tried my best to start a team to give riders a chance to further their career and now it all ends due to a combination of being personally screwed out of nearly $75,000 and sponsors who I’m still waiting to pay some bills. At the end of the day and I’m proud I was able to help Coty launch his careee as he’s truly the nicest kid and an amazing hard worker. I believe I’ve got him a ride lined up for next year and his wrench Tony has some amazing opportunities on the table.

I’ll walk away from the team with debt that’ll take me years to pay off but a life full of lessons. At the same time, I burnt the candle at both ends for far too long and wasn’t able to accurately complete my other job at hand. All I want to do is make right by anyone who has been wronged. The best I can do at this point is do what I can to give someone their money back, give them my true apologies and hope that it all works out for everyone in the end.

At the end of the day, I probably should’ve just “stayed in my lane” a bit more and not tried to take on so much. I do everything with the best of intentions but in the end the outcome is not always as such. Probably one of the most important lessons I can take away from this, no matter how much you want to do the right thing and you believe you are…you can still screw up.
Keep your head up. Take care of the people who need to be made whole and ignore the pitchfork mob. I have survived a failed business myself and like you will be saddled with the debt for years. You’re a good man and you swing for the fences. You struck out, that can happen. Nobody ever won a baseball game by bunting in the first at bat. I know you will rebuild. I look forward to seeing what you do next. 👍
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ML512
Posts
16993
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/5/2021 9:47am
I'm sure some of these guys appreciate what you're saying, and are glad you decided to speak up in this thread. The problem is even this...
I'm sure some of these guys appreciate what you're saying, and are glad you decided to speak up in this thread.
The problem is even this post is full of excuses and justifications. I don't care if you have one cent to your name, you literally refused to even respond to people.
Those sponsors you say owe you money, I bet if they sent a text or email asking how to pay you you would have responded right away.
There is no excuse for lack of communication over an extended period of time, the pattern is obvious.
This post from you is just an elaboration of every other post you've thrown up after being called out.
I'm glad at least ONE guy got his money back. Let's see how the rest of it goes.
You want to do good for the industry? FIX your mistakes and leave the excuses out. It will take time.
Good job with Coty, I hope he goes far. I will give you recognition for helping him.
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt like needed to be said. But again, I understand how it can be taken as excuses or looking for a pitty party. As such, I won’t be responding to this topic directly further because I don’t want to just keep the ball rolling on explaining myself and being taken as looking for sympathy or excuses. I’ll just be reaching out to past customers to see if orders have been received and if not how they can be rectified. My email was of course posted in here so I can be contacted that way as well. Thank you to anyone who reaches out as I’d love to right any wrong situation for you, hopefully I am just able to connect with the right people without them having to go through any extra effort to get what they deserve.
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9/5/2021 9:54am
ML512 wrote:
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt...
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt like needed to be said. But again, I understand how it can be taken as excuses or looking for a pitty party. As such, I won’t be responding to this topic directly further because I don’t want to just keep the ball rolling on explaining myself and being taken as looking for sympathy or excuses. I’ll just be reaching out to past customers to see if orders have been received and if not how they can be rectified. My email was of course posted in here so I can be contacted that way as well. Thank you to anyone who reaches out as I’d love to right any wrong situation for you, hopefully I am just able to connect with the right people without them having to go through any extra effort to get what they deserve.
Probably the best thing you can do right now. It does matter you posted yourself, just back it up man and make it right.
While I would never buy anything from any company associated with you, I also think people need grace at times and you aren't an exception.
Communicate and don't make a promise you aren't absolutely sure you can keep. That's all man.
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The Shop

Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
USA
9/5/2021 9:55am
LungButter wrote:
I didn't justify shit pal, I did get a jab in on guys who think some mount is going to make them faster though....here's a speed...
I didn't justify shit pal, I did get a jab in on guys who think some mount is going to make them faster though....here's a speed tip, the throttle is on the right, twist it farther.

The fact that you think maybe THOUSANDS of people are in the same situation as you shows that you don't have a grasp on reality. Being that you are from Utah I supposed I should cut you some slack in that department though.....

It does suck what happened, I'd be pissed if I was out my money too but to think it's 100% ML and not anyone else who was involved in the business is pretty ignorant in my opinion.

Why you taking this Scot guys word as gospel? To date it doesn't seem he's followed through either....


*I'm out, I don't have a dog in this fight*
“Did y’all ever stop to think… “

“I didn’t justify shit, pal.”

Well that was quite the cliffhanger 🙄

I say hundreds or thousands because he ripped off more than just WCL customers.

And p.s. mounts may not make you faster. Neither do grips, footpegs, levers or seat foam. You know what they do? Add comfort. So much for grasping reality. Are straws called reality where you’re from?

——————————————————————-

Any guys, final update.

Send your messages to ML with proof of purchase to get your refund.

Concerning WCL, I’d email Scot with what you are looking to purchase and get an ETA from him prior to ordering to ensure you’ll be satisfactory with his delivery window. His still digging through his orders aligning everything so just be clear on timelines with him before proceeding.

Thank you everyone who reached to me directly and help cleared WCL and Scots name.
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Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
USA
9/5/2021 9:59am
I'm sure some of these guys appreciate what you're saying, and are glad you decided to speak up in this thread. The problem is even this...
I'm sure some of these guys appreciate what you're saying, and are glad you decided to speak up in this thread.
The problem is even this post is full of excuses and justifications. I don't care if you have one cent to your name, you literally refused to even respond to people.
Those sponsors you say owe you money, I bet if they sent a text or email asking how to pay you you would have responded right away.
There is no excuse for lack of communication over an extended period of time, the pattern is obvious.
This post from you is just an elaboration of every other post you've thrown up after being called out.
I'm glad at least ONE guy got his money back. Let's see how the rest of it goes.
You want to do good for the industry? FIX your mistakes and leave the excuses out. It will take time.
Good job with Coty, I hope he goes far. I will give you recognition for helping him.
ML512 wrote:
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt...
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt like needed to be said. But again, I understand how it can be taken as excuses or looking for a pitty party. As such, I won’t be responding to this topic directly further because I don’t want to just keep the ball rolling on explaining myself and being taken as looking for sympathy or excuses. I’ll just be reaching out to past customers to see if orders have been received and if not how they can be rectified. My email was of course posted in here so I can be contacted that way as well. Thank you to anyone who reaches out as I’d love to right any wrong situation for you, hopefully I am just able to connect with the right people without them having to go through any extra effort to get what they deserve.
Look man, I think what you did is fucked up on many levels and I’m glad you’re stepping up to do the right thing even if it had to escalate to this to make it happen.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we want the old ML back. You have a long road ahead of you.

I’m not sure at what expense, but thank you for finally stepping up 👍 make it happen, captain
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nytsmaC
Posts
5946
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off, CA
9/5/2021 10:34am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2021 10:36am
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
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mb60
Posts
5655
Joined
3/7/2010
Location
GRAPEVINE, TX, USA
9/5/2021 11:03am
Funny that ML 512 is now responding back on vital after is reported that he was coming back to take over. Sad that the one guy who spoke out the loudest is getting his money back. Not sure how this can be made right but he could have filed bankruptcy and silenced all of the people needing refunds. Hate to see this go down in our industry and hope it works out for all involved.
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Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
USA
9/5/2021 11:04am
nytsmaC wrote:
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it...
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
I’m going to respectfully disagree with you on this being a simple fuck up, but you’re spot on with the rest.

I don’t like how it happened but ML appears to be getting refunds out and will be back on Vital soon. Regardless of how bad he hurt credibility going forward, I’ll just repeat my same opinion that he makes this right with everyone involved and goes back to his genuine self on here delivering us AMAZING content.

I’d still like to use WCLs mounts, and I’ve wanted to since I decided what I’d like on my bike. Scot didn’t put anything in terms of him still sending me top mounts on MY dime, and he still offered a full set when lowers are available. And I still offered to PayPal him something once I sell my FCP mounts for him hanging in there through all this.

Pitchforks are lowered and people are moving forward with a right path which is all most of us ever wanted.
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PNWRider
Posts
474
Joined
1/31/2021
Location
Stanwood, WA, USA
9/5/2021 11:11am
ML512 wrote:
I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and I don’t want to create any sort of a he said/she said and drag on...
I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and I don’t want to create any sort of a he said/she said and drag on a shitty situation.

I didn’t steal any money to run a race team, I’m no longer involved in the company of my own choice and if anyone is not being provided a refund, please email me and I will pay you for your order. I don’t want any sort of Varner-esque reputation. If you’re not being provided your product, I will pay for your order. Whatever it takes to make the situation right for those that have been wronged. I understand some will be skeptical of my posting or reason, but let me make it right by those who haven’t been made whole for their orders.

MichaelLindsay512@gmail.com
Bullshit.
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xrmark
Posts
1123
Joined
9/9/2019
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
9/5/2021 11:20am
ML512 wrote:
I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and I don’t want to create any sort of a he said/she said and drag on...
I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and I don’t want to create any sort of a he said/she said and drag on a shitty situation.

I didn’t steal any money to run a race team, I’m no longer involved in the company of my own choice and if anyone is not being provided a refund, please email me and I will pay you for your order. I don’t want any sort of Varner-esque reputation. If you’re not being provided your product, I will pay for your order. Whatever it takes to make the situation right for those that have been wronged. I understand some will be skeptical of my posting or reason, but let me make it right by those who haven’t been made whole for their orders.

MichaelLindsay512@gmail.com
How you going to pay for people’s orders when you can’t pay your riders let alone give a refund?? Lol you’re in way over your head in all your business practices.
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nytsmaC
Posts
5946
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off, CA
9/5/2021 11:55am
Yeti831 wrote:
I’m going to respectfully disagree with you on this being a simple fuck up, but you’re spot on with the rest. I don’t like how it...
I’m going to respectfully disagree with you on this being a simple fuck up, but you’re spot on with the rest.

I don’t like how it happened but ML appears to be getting refunds out and will be back on Vital soon. Regardless of how bad he hurt credibility going forward, I’ll just repeat my same opinion that he makes this right with everyone involved and goes back to his genuine self on here delivering us AMAZING content.

I’d still like to use WCLs mounts, and I’ve wanted to since I decided what I’d like on my bike. Scot didn’t put anything in terms of him still sending me top mounts on MY dime, and he still offered a full set when lowers are available. And I still offered to PayPal him something once I sell my FCP mounts for him hanging in there through all this.

Pitchforks are lowered and people are moving forward with a right path which is all most of us ever wanted.
I don’t think it was just a simple fuck up, I think it was a giant shit storm.

I don’t know any more than anyone else here, but if I were to guess, I bet Michael was getting strung along with money owed to him, and he was tapped out. Promises of “the check is in the mail” had him pushing off customers, hoping to be able to refund them when the money came in, without having to take a major personal loss. He let it go on way too long and here we are now. It should have been handled differently, not at the customers’ expense. Again, just my guess.
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9/5/2021 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2021 12:38pm
ML512 wrote:
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt...
I understand your perspective sir and I don’t mean any of it as excuses, I’m just sharing my thoughts and I have said what I felt like needed to be said. But again, I understand how it can be taken as excuses or looking for a pitty party. As such, I won’t be responding to this topic directly further because I don’t want to just keep the ball rolling on explaining myself and being taken as looking for sympathy or excuses. I’ll just be reaching out to past customers to see if orders have been received and if not how they can be rectified. My email was of course posted in here so I can be contacted that way as well. Thank you to anyone who reaches out as I’d love to right any wrong situation for you, hopefully I am just able to connect with the right people without them having to go through any extra effort to get what they deserve.
Probably the best thing you can do right now. It does matter you posted yourself, just back it up man and make it right. While I...
Probably the best thing you can do right now. It does matter you posted yourself, just back it up man and make it right.
While I would never buy anything from any company associated with you, I also think people need grace at times and you aren't an exception.
Communicate and don't make a promise you aren't absolutely sure you can keep. That's all man.
I think you have the right take on this. Some of the first lessons I've learned in business were:

1. Under-promise and over-deliver.
2. Good news fast, bad news faster.

Communication with your customers is paramount. ML512 looks fairly young and, unfortunately, I think he may be learning these lessons publicly. Hopefully, he can help to make all of these disgruntled customers whole and rebuild from here.
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sumdood
Posts
8970
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/5/2021 12:19pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2021 1:00pm
If money owed from the race team wasn’t coming in the race team should have suffered not WCL. They two should never have intermingled. Oh well hindsight’s 20/20. I don’t know if that’s what happened but it seems that way. Too many balls in the air. Lesson learned. Hopefully when it’s all handled and everyone’s satisfied with product or refunds, people don’t dogpile on after the fact for too long. There’s obviously going to be guys taking shots for awhile, but hopefully it tapers off sooner than later.
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dancolvin633
Posts
685
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6/28/2016
Location
Plumas Lake, CA, USA
9/5/2021 1:07pm
I got my engine mounts in the mail yesterday just as Scot promised.

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TeamGreen
Posts
37257
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
9/5/2021 2:14pm
Late to the party and full of info, huh? I would agree with you, almost, BUT ML hung himself out to dry with empty promises and...
Late to the party and full of info, huh?
I would agree with you, almost, BUT ML hung himself out to dry with empty promises and straight up ghosting people. That's a HUGE part of why this is so bad.
It's laughable, huh? Good for you.
ML512 wrote:
You’re completely right sir. I caused my own pain here with my lack of communication and inability to complete the job at hand. I bit off...
You’re completely right sir. I caused my own pain here with my lack of communication and inability to complete the job at hand.

I bit off more than I could chew with the team and trying to help run a business. At the end of it all my reputation has been damaged to an extent that scares me as a person who truly only wants to do good for the industry and Moto community. I tried my best to start a team to give riders a chance to further their career and now it all ends due to a combination of being personally screwed out of nearly $75,000 and sponsors who I’m still waiting to pay some bills. At the end of the day and I’m proud I was able to help Coty launch his careee as he’s truly the nicest kid and an amazing hard worker. I believe I’ve got him a ride lined up for next year and his wrench Tony has some amazing opportunities on the table.

I’ll walk away from the team with debt that’ll take me years to pay off but a life full of lessons. At the same time, I burnt the candle at both ends for far too long and wasn’t able to accurately complete my other job at hand. All I want to do is make right by anyone who has been wronged. The best I can do at this point is do what I can to give someone their money back, give them my true apologies and hope that it all works out for everyone in the end.

At the end of the day, I probably should’ve just “stayed in my lane” a bit more and not tried to take on so much. I do everything with the best of intentions but in the end the outcome is not always as such. Probably one of the most important lessons I can take away from this, no matter how much you want to do the right thing and you believe you are…you can still screw up.
Well...that's kinda funny! I intentionally didn't talk to you, yesterday, because you were VERY busy trying to make the most out of the day...for your riders...& I didn't want to talk to you about this crap on race day. I just dropped in to say,"Hi!" and then back out in to the sun...& dust...and seeing & visiting people that it seems I haven't hung out with in...well...it feels like years.

Anyhoo...

I just posted something along the lines of what you've said here...over in the Team FXR Chap Honda thread; but, from my own perspective and by talking to everyone -except you- about this and it sounds to me like you've got a big hole to fill.

That sucks; but, it's just another bump in the road.

I'm bummed for ya and I'm fully aware of the balls you dropped. All the while..."shit happens". Fix this shit and move on.

Also, some of the moto-stuff I use due to your positive influence & input with certain brands and products? Well, uh...no. I'm making some changes...since they can't seem to honor their agreements with you...and others. One of those brands has simply decided to not pay people -or- pay them 1/2 of what they're CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to pay...etc. I personally know a rider that only got paid 1/2 of his contract. Yup. One half.

Some are gonna compare that to what you've put them thru at WCL; but, in contrast...you're trying. You're...at the very least...and I'll use the term..."eventually" getting shit sorted out for your customers.
I know you.
I know you'll get it done.
So be it.

I wish these other "brands" would do the same; however, in the case of one of them...I know that requires time, money and LAWYERS...to go get the money they owe.

Oh, and, we're talking about a WHOLE LOT MORE than $300-$400 motor mounts!
Grinning
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tobz
Posts
3891
Joined
3/5/2007
Location
Adelaide, AU
9/5/2021 2:22pm
nytsmaC wrote:
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it...
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out.

Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this shit all you want.
Funnelling customers money from WCL to fund a poorly ran race team to the point where their were no funds left at WCL is the epitome of ML.
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TeamGreen
Posts
37257
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
9/5/2021 2:28pm
nytsmaC wrote:
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it...
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
tobz wrote:
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out. Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this...
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out.

Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this shit all you want.
Funnelling customers money from WCL to fund a poorly ran race team to the point where their were no funds left at WCL is the epitome of ML.
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team?

That's what you're running with?

Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL?

What do you "know"?
1
12
9/5/2021 2:50pm
nytsmaC wrote:
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it...
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
tobz wrote:
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out. Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this...
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out.

Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this shit all you want.
Funnelling customers money from WCL to fund a poorly ran race team to the point where their were no funds left at WCL is the epitome of ML.
TeamGreen wrote:
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team? That's what you're running with? Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL? What...
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team?

That's what you're running with?

Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL?

What do you "know"?
We know what ML himself posted here.
All you've said may be true. Maybe it isn't.
What we know isn't conjecture, it's PUBLIC promises and failure to follow through. Excuse after excuse.
ML came in here and posted, which took balls. Hopefully he starts righting the wrongs.
Honestly, Manny, you posting what you have been is making it worse for ML. Now he has someone else making excuses for him.
Yeah you've said a few times he screwed up, but again part of the industry cool guy club is coming in and doing this.
ML screwed people over, PERIOD. I don't care where the money went or what it was used for.
9
tobz
Posts
3891
Joined
3/5/2007
Location
Adelaide, AU
9/5/2021 2:53pm
nytsmaC wrote:
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it...
People need to put the pitchforks down for a little and give Michael (and Scot) the chance to resolve these issues. It’s a shame that it had to come to a boiling point like this, sometimes you don’t realize how grave of a situation you’ve put yourself in until it’s too late. Let’s not make assumptions on the inner business dealings between ML and Scot, we’ve heard a little from one side but there are always two sides to every story. That’s between them, and frankly is none of our business if they don’t want to make it all public.

I think that neither of these guys had any intention of screwing anybody over, and shit went sideways. Make this right by everyone and this doesn’t have to define you, learn from these mistakes and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Meanwhile, anyone waiting for products or refunds need to get paid back immediately, as this is your problem, not theirs. Get the money together by any means necessary to make it happen, if the well is dry it’s already past the time to start selling personal valuables. Make everyone square, and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

Fucking up doesn’t make them dirt bags, I’m sure they had the best of intentions with this business and it turned into a nightmare with poor judgement and bad decisions. Give them a chance to redeem themselves here.

And Mike/Scot, the main lesson you should take from this is the importance of being honest and transparent with your customers. Don’t make promises that you can’t keep, and never allow the lines of communication to fall apart with business matters. You need a dedicated business email to keep track of orders, keep it organized and stay on top of it. You should have hired someone to do this for you if you were stretched too thin, or stopped accepting orders if unable to fill them in a timely manner. I’m sure you know this by now anyways and the damage is done.

These guys may be knuckleheads but I don’t think they are bad people.
tobz wrote:
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out. Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this...
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out.

Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this shit all you want.
Funnelling customers money from WCL to fund a poorly ran race team to the point where their were no funds left at WCL is the epitome of ML.
TeamGreen wrote:
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team? That's what you're running with? Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL? What...
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team?

That's what you're running with?

Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL?

What do you "know"?
Did you read the fucking threads? If you spent the time reading instead of writing long winded extravagant posts trying to publicly gargle ML (No one gives a shit that you stopped to say Hi in the Sun and Dust), you’d be able to put two and two together.

ML literally posts that he ran the team into debt while Scot writes that there’s no money left for refunds at WCL with ML wouldn’t respond to any of his communications (or anyone else’s for that matter).
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1
yak651
Posts
8819
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
9/5/2021 3:05pm
Since we’re getting some closure here, can we find out who moved all the other WCL threads to the dumbgeon?
2
nytsmaC
Posts
5946
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off, CA
9/5/2021 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2021 3:14pm
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the right thing, accepting full responsibility without throwing anyone under the bus. There’s a line between attempting to explain yourself and making excuses. Give him a chance to do the right thing is all I’m saying. It’s not necessary to stone him to death. Guys like Varner hide out and duck it, Mike is trying to eat it and make things right. He at least deserves some credit for that.
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9
9/5/2021 3:31pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the...
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the right thing, accepting full responsibility without throwing anyone under the bus. There’s a line between attempting to explain yourself and making excuses. Give him a chance to do the right thing is all I’m saying. It’s not necessary to stone him to death. Guys like Varner hide out and duck it, Mike is trying to eat it and make things right. He at least deserves some credit for that.
Man read ML's recent posts. Yeah he said he messed up but he also used A LOT of excuses. He absolutely threw people under the bus, he just didn't use their names or specific companies.
2
4
Natester551v
Posts
996
Joined
1/11/2015
Location
St. George, UT, USA
9/5/2021 3:31pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the...
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the right thing, accepting full responsibility without throwing anyone under the bus. There’s a line between attempting to explain yourself and making excuses. Give him a chance to do the right thing is all I’m saying. It’s not necessary to stone him to death. Guys like Varner hide out and duck it, Mike is trying to eat it and make things right. He at least deserves some credit for that.
Well said...bummed that people lost their $300, but makes me kind of sick to see how vicious folks can be. Hope the best for ML, and hope everyone gets their orders sorted.
1
8
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
USA
9/5/2021 3:33pm
I got my engine mounts in the mail yesterday just as Scot promised. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/09/05/508758/s1200_2933EC38_6490_431C_85F8_450B02FD4958.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/09/05/508759/s1200_7ADA00FF_CEF4_4219_B4C8_848C37E660CA.jpg[/img]
I got my engine mounts in the mail yesterday just as Scot promised.

Scot said mine are going out Tuesday but I just saw he said he’s shipping soft tops with stiff lowers until he has soft lowers.

I’m still waiting to hear back after my last message but I may just offer those to a member on here for like $10 shipping.

I told him I got my refund and he’s still insisting on sending me parts but I really just want to tops so I think I’ll send those out to anyone missing an order. He’s being a stand up dude through all this.
1
1
9/5/2021 3:46pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the...
Some want to just keep piling on, bloodlust mob mentality style. I see a young man who is owning his mistakes and trying to do the right thing, accepting full responsibility without throwing anyone under the bus. There’s a line between attempting to explain yourself and making excuses. Give him a chance to do the right thing is all I’m saying. It’s not necessary to stone him to death. Guys like Varner hide out and duck it, Mike is trying to eat it and make things right. He at least deserves some credit for that.
Well said...bummed that people lost their $300, but makes me kind of sick to see how vicious folks can be. Hope the best for ML, and...
Well said...bummed that people lost their $300, but makes me kind of sick to see how vicious folks can be. Hope the best for ML, and hope everyone gets their orders sorted.
Vicious? Pay attention to all the threads. Go look in the Dumbgeon. In my opinion ML is getting off pretty easy on this nonsense.
It's not "just" the $300. It's the blatant lies and BS excuses. In a hotel with COVID but then in a Weege video.
ML has come in here and made a couple posts, and hopefully he backs it up this time. BUT....he still made a lot of excuses and gave us so many reasons why he did what he did.
You have Manny on his nuts with all those looooooooong posts, which is hurting more than helping I think. We all already know Manny knows everyone and loves to drop those names in 99% of his posts, so the industry-bro defense is tired.
14
2
xrmark
Posts
1123
Joined
9/9/2019
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
9/5/2021 4:22pm
Vicious? Pay attention to all the threads. Go look in the Dumbgeon. In my opinion ML is getting off pretty easy on this nonsense. It's not...
Vicious? Pay attention to all the threads. Go look in the Dumbgeon. In my opinion ML is getting off pretty easy on this nonsense.
It's not "just" the $300. It's the blatant lies and BS excuses. In a hotel with COVID but then in a Weege video.
ML has come in here and made a couple posts, and hopefully he backs it up this time. BUT....he still made a lot of excuses and gave us so many reasons why he did what he did.
You have Manny on his nuts with all those looooooooong posts, which is hurting more than helping I think. We all already know Manny knows everyone and loves to drop those names in 99% of his posts, so the industry-bro defense is tired.
Manny latches onto anyone who’s in the “industry” nuts. That’s cool he knows people on the inside. A lot of us have worked in and know plenty of people in the industry. Defending anyone who takes people’s money and lies to them just shows us he’ll nut hug anyone.
16
APLMAN99
Posts
12671
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
9/5/2021 4:22pm
tobz wrote:
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out. Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this...
People are only now getting their money back or parts they paid for BECAUSE the pitchforks came out.

Sweet talk, justify, or try to excuse this shit all you want.
Funnelling customers money from WCL to fund a poorly ran race team to the point where their were no funds left at WCL is the epitome of ML.
TeamGreen wrote:
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team? That's what you're running with? Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL? What...
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team?

That's what you're running with?

Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL?

What do you "know"?
tobz wrote:
Did you read the fucking threads? If you spent the time reading instead of writing long winded extravagant posts trying to publicly gargle ML (No one...
Did you read the fucking threads? If you spent the time reading instead of writing long winded extravagant posts trying to publicly gargle ML (No one gives a shit that you stopped to say Hi in the Sun and Dust), you’d be able to put two and two together.

ML literally posts that he ran the team into debt while Scot writes that there’s no money left for refunds at WCL with ML wouldn’t respond to any of his communications (or anyone else’s for that matter).
Unfortunately, the ‘putting 2 and 2 together has turned into treating those suppositions as facts. There hasn’t been any concrete evidence of ML diverting funds from WCL to the race team, even though someone may claim to have been told that. The cash that you may think that ML ‘stole’ could have been paid to metal vendors, etc.
3
8
TeamGreen
Posts
37257
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
9/5/2021 5:03pm
TeamGreen wrote:
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team? That's what you're running with? Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL? What...
So, the money for the motor mounts went to the race team?

That's what you're running with?

Or...did ML drop the ball on managing WCL?

What do you "know"?
tobz wrote:
Did you read the fucking threads? If you spent the time reading instead of writing long winded extravagant posts trying to publicly gargle ML (No one...
Did you read the fucking threads? If you spent the time reading instead of writing long winded extravagant posts trying to publicly gargle ML (No one gives a shit that you stopped to say Hi in the Sun and Dust), you’d be able to put two and two together.

ML literally posts that he ran the team into debt while Scot writes that there’s no money left for refunds at WCL with ML wouldn’t respond to any of his communications (or anyone else’s for that matter).
APLMAN99 wrote:
Unfortunately, the ‘putting 2 and 2 together has turned into treating those suppositions as facts. There hasn’t been any concrete evidence of ML diverting funds from...
Unfortunately, the ‘putting 2 and 2 together has turned into treating those suppositions as facts. There hasn’t been any concrete evidence of ML diverting funds from WCL to the race team, even though someone may claim to have been told that. The cash that you may think that ML ‘stole’ could have been paid to metal vendors, etc.
Tread lightly. You don’t want to be a “nut-hugger”!
Grinning
It’s kinda hilarious for me. Hadn’t been around the vast majority of this industry for well over a year. Go to one event. Do a bit of digging and find it’s pretty easy to find out what’s going on…

Put it all down in here “as I was told”…

And all the usual suspects ain’t having it…because…well…”they know better” & all that. You know, the virtue signaling regulars that really seem to have a problem with EVERYTHING…?

But, aside from all that, you nailed it. In the end…
Welcome to The Web (pun inclusive).

Signed,

The Nut Hugger that never seems to learn to not say anything.
Cool
2
15
xrmark
Posts
1123
Joined
9/9/2019
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
9/5/2021 5:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Tread lightly. You don’t want to be a “nut-hugger”! :lol: It’s kinda hilarious for me. Hadn’t been around the vast majority of this industry for well...
Tread lightly. You don’t want to be a “nut-hugger”!
Grinning
It’s kinda hilarious for me. Hadn’t been around the vast majority of this industry for well over a year. Go to one event. Do a bit of digging and find it’s pretty easy to find out what’s going on…

Put it all down in here “as I was told”…

And all the usual suspects ain’t having it…because…well…”they know better” & all that. You know, the virtue signaling regulars that really seem to have a problem with EVERYTHING…?

But, aside from all that, you nailed it. In the end…
Welcome to The Web (pun inclusive).

Signed,

The Nut Hugger that never seems to learn to not say anything.
Cool
Actually, if you did a bit of digging, you’d find out that team is in shambles and no surprise it didn’t last. The original team bouncing should’ve been the eye opener. Nut hugging the team owner at a race tells you nothing. Of course you’re going to hear nothing but good from him.
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