Washougal...I’m just saying

burn1986
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burn1986 7/24/2021 11:05am
7/24/2021 11:05am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2021 11:07am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class. I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should...
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class.

I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should still give an idea of where he'd stack up against those guys.
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have too much pressure from Honda to change the rules and allow a larger 2-stroke In either one of the classes.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 7/24/2021 11:08am
7/24/2021 11:08am
burn1986 wrote:
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have...
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have too much pressure from Honda to change the rules and allow a larger 2-stroke In either one of the classes.
Why/How does Honda have so much pull?
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 7/24/2021 11:11am
7/24/2021 11:11am
1911 wrote:
Should be racing it it the 250 class! Still happy to see a 2 stroke out thereLaughing
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class. I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should...
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class.

I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should still give an idea of where he'd stack up against those guys.
CPR wrote:
Yep having to race a 250 2t in the 450 class, instead of against 250f’s is complete bullshit.
When 4 strokes were first ‘brought back’ by Yamaha, I was a firm supporter of the displacement disparity rules. I remember arguing with MXKing (OG on the old MX boards) about it because he was an equally adamant supporter of equal displacement classes.

I can honestly say that I now feel that those arguments were some of my most shortsighted and outright wrong that I’ve ever expressed on a moto topic, ever.

I know that I have apologized to him in the past, just want to do it again for the ‘new crop’ of moto posters……!
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 7/24/2021 11:20am
7/24/2021 11:20am
burn1986 wrote:
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have...
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have too much pressure from Honda to change the rules and allow a larger 2-stroke In either one of the classes.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Why/How does Honda have so much pull?
They probably don’t have as much now, but if I was told correctly (and equally as important, remember it correctly), the OEMs had a very large voice with the AMA. They had a manufacturer’s group that funded a large portion of AMA activities, it might have been the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC), but not sure if that’s the exact group or not.

So what I heard was that the MIC collected funds from its members based on units sold, and this made Honda the largest contributor overall and the threat of them pulling out of the MIC was a huge hammer that they wielded to influence the AMA in a lot of ways.

The per unit fees were based on all motorcycles sold, not just MX or off road and I believe that the only ones involved were the traditional “Big 4” that we had for so long.
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Harv379
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Harv379 7/24/2021 11:31am
7/24/2021 11:31am
I've raced there 2 times and rode my KLR 650 to the 2018 national from Utah. I was the guy who filmed Justin Hill fly off the track into the tree. Aside from perhaps the worst night of camping in my entire life from the partiers who stayed up all night yelling and being idiots, it's an amazing facility and area to explore.
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Harv379
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Harv379 7/24/2021 11:33am
7/24/2021 11:33am

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burn1986
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burn1986 7/24/2021 11:37am
7/24/2021 11:37am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2021 11:41am
burn1986 wrote:
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have...
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have too much pressure from Honda to change the rules and allow a larger 2-stroke In either one of the classes.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Why/How does Honda have so much pull?
APLMAN99 wrote:
They probably don’t have as much now, but if I was told correctly (and equally as important, remember it correctly), the OEMs had a very large...
They probably don’t have as much now, but if I was told correctly (and equally as important, remember it correctly), the OEMs had a very large voice with the AMA. They had a manufacturer’s group that funded a large portion of AMA activities, it might have been the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC), but not sure if that’s the exact group or not.

So what I heard was that the MIC collected funds from its members based on units sold, and this made Honda the largest contributor overall and the threat of them pulling out of the MIC was a huge hammer that they wielded to influence the AMA in a lot of ways.

The per unit fees were based on all motorcycles sold, not just MX or off road and I believe that the only ones involved were the traditional “Big 4” that we had for so long.
Good points and information.

From a fan’s perspective, the hope is that the Austrian’s can shift the influence away from the Big 4 and allow a less stodgy and rigid approach to the 2-stroke competing.
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ktmusa
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ktmusa 7/24/2021 11:38am
7/24/2021 11:38am
Harv379 wrote:
I've raced there 2 times and rode my KLR 650 to the 2018 national from Utah. I was the guy who filmed Justin Hill fly off...
I've raced there 2 times and rode my KLR 650 to the 2018 national from Utah. I was the guy who filmed Justin Hill fly off the track into the tree. Aside from perhaps the worst night of camping in my entire life from the partiers who stayed up all night yelling and being idiots, it's an amazing facility and area to explore.
If you think that was bad, you should try RedBud over the 4th of July weekend.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/24/2021 12:01pm
7/24/2021 12:01pm
Harv379 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/24/502864/s1200_IMG_0797.jpg[/img]

This is my plan for summer 2022: The US and Canadian Nat's.

Awaiting the new Gen III "Adventure".
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 7/24/2021 12:04pm
7/24/2021 12:04pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Bad news. Carson blew out his shoulder this week. He's still going to try and give it a go for the locals.
He qualified 21st overall.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/24/2021 12:06pm
7/24/2021 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2021 12:14pm
For the Record:

I've looked into the issue that was the OP's original concern...

I'm not hearing any bad-news from either the track nor MX Sports.

I'm jus' sayin'...
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 7/24/2021 12:11pm
7/24/2021 12:11pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Why/How does Honda have so much pull?
APLMAN99 wrote:
They probably don’t have as much now, but if I was told correctly (and equally as important, remember it correctly), the OEMs had a very large...
They probably don’t have as much now, but if I was told correctly (and equally as important, remember it correctly), the OEMs had a very large voice with the AMA. They had a manufacturer’s group that funded a large portion of AMA activities, it might have been the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC), but not sure if that’s the exact group or not.

So what I heard was that the MIC collected funds from its members based on units sold, and this made Honda the largest contributor overall and the threat of them pulling out of the MIC was a huge hammer that they wielded to influence the AMA in a lot of ways.

The per unit fees were based on all motorcycles sold, not just MX or off road and I believe that the only ones involved were the traditional “Big 4” that we had for so long.
burn1986 wrote:
Good points and information. From a fan’s perspective, the hope is that the Austrian’s can shift the influence away from the Big 4 and allow a...
Good points and information.

From a fan’s perspective, the hope is that the Austrian’s can shift the influence away from the Big 4 and allow a less stodgy and rigid approach to the 2-stroke competing.
Again, that’s just what I believe the story was, it could be completely wrong but either way the dynamic is probably very different than it was 30 years or so ago. When the AMA spun off Pro Racing it should have changed quite a bit of things, but maybe there is still a similar manufacturer’s group still doing something similar.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the AMA was pretty much stuck with making the OEMs happy because there was always the possibility of the FIM pulling their association with them and giving it to another sanctioning body. Not sure if that holds the same weight that it used to, but it sure seemed like a huge deal in the 70s, 80s, and into the 90s. If Honda, for example, had decided to leave the AMA and do mostly non-AMA Championship series, it could have threatened the AMA’s status as the “official” US sanctioning body. If Honda had done that and got at least one more of the “Big 4” to join them, it probably would have been a guaranteed loss of the AMA’s recognition by the FIM.
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bsharkey
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bsharkey 7/24/2021 12:17pm
7/24/2021 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2021 12:21pm
Tracktor wrote:
Not at moment. Ralph Huffman passed away which was a big blow to NW MX but hopefully Ryan & the rest can keep things going in...
Not at moment. Ralph Huffman passed away which was a big blow to NW MX but hopefully Ryan & the rest can keep things going in his stead.............
NorCal1975 wrote:
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of...
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of course moved in long after the track was built) was suing for some nonsense, not sure it went anywhere. But, it is Washington state, so fun, noise, etc. are tightly regulated - just like California.
motomike137 wrote:
That neighbor needs to go swimming with the fishies in the Columbia Wink
Pretty sure I heard that pos mel.gibson had a house close by too..pretty sad hearing about Ralph back in march. He was a guinely good dude. Super friendly..weve been going there since 1983
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Tracktor
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Tracktor 7/24/2021 2:07pm
7/24/2021 2:07pm
NorCal1975 wrote:
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of...
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of course moved in long after the track was built) was suing for some nonsense, not sure it went anywhere. But, it is Washington state, so fun, noise, etc. are tightly regulated - just like California.
motomike137 wrote:
That neighbor needs to go swimming with the fishies in the Columbia Wink
bsharkey wrote:
Pretty sure I heard that pos mel.gibson had a house close by too..pretty sad hearing about Ralph back in march. He was a guinely good dude...
Pretty sure I heard that pos mel.gibson had a house close by too..pretty sad hearing about Ralph back in march. He was a guinely good dude. Super friendly..weve been going there since 1983
The sound or whatever lawsuit had nothing to do with Mel Gibson. His house wasn’t anywhere near Washougal MX. It was an attorney from Beaverton I believe who didn’t realize who he was up against. Ralph wasn’t just some podunk hillbilly track owner…either way that’s ancient history…
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CPR
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CPR 7/25/2021 3:34am
7/25/2021 3:34am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Bad news. Carson blew out his shoulder this week. He's still going to try and give it a go for the locals.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
He qualified 21st overall.
Carson scored points with 18th in moto 1, awesome on a 2t 250.
But does anyone know what happened in moto 2? Saw him briefly on timing but disappeared and not in the results at all?
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 7/25/2021 5:16am
7/25/2021 5:16am
Mav. How’s the 2 stroke Times measure up with the 250 class?
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 7/25/2021 7:29am
7/25/2021 7:29am
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:
Mav. How’s the 2 stroke Times measure up with the 250 class?
He qualified 21st in the 450 class with a time of 2:18.706.

Obviously the track wasn't the same, but his time would have put him in 20th in the 250 class.

Not sure where his total time would've put him in the first 250 moto.
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visser62
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visser62 7/25/2021 7:45am
7/25/2021 7:45am
TeamGreen wrote:
For the Record: I've looked into the issue that was the OP's original concern... I'm not hearing any bad-news from either the track nor MX Sports...
For the Record:

I've looked into the issue that was the OP's original concern...

I'm not hearing any bad-news from either the track nor MX Sports.

I'm jus' sayin'...
Isn't this the same dude who was correct about RV going to the GPs, but then spread a bunch of other rumors later that never came true?

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profeshenal125 7/25/2021 8:47am
7/25/2021 8:47am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class. I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should...
Absolutely should be racing it in the 250 class.

I'll be checking his times against the 250 guys. He'll have different track conditions, but it should still give an idea of where he'd stack up against those guys.
burn1986 wrote:
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have...
Obviously the 450s are head and shoulders faster than 250 2-strokes, just like the 125 is painfully slower than the 250Fs. MXSports and the AMA have too much pressure from Honda to change the rules and allow a larger 2-stroke In either one of the classes.
A 125 with a stroker crank and 2mm ovr bore, gets the torque in the 250f ball park hp is still off tho. A track like Millville a 125 has a chance to qualify. Whoops and the down hills are a 125 advantage. I wonder how bad the ama tech inspection on a 2-st is. Checking for a cheater motor and mxo2 leaded fuel ?
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KiwiBermRailer 7/25/2021 9:01am
7/25/2021 9:01am
Rotaholic wrote:
I flew over in 2015 from New Zealand for a RND at Washougal, what an epic venue and trip.
This is my dream!!! But an issue at the moment having to book a spot in Cindys day care on return!!
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Suicidal_Tendencies 7/25/2021 9:10am
7/25/2021 9:10am
BevoDave wrote:
Remember the crowning of Ms. Washougal in the 70’s/80’s? They had to shut it down bc too many contestants figured out that more skin meant greater...
Remember the crowning of Ms. Washougal in the 70’s/80’s? They had to shut it down bc too many contestants figured out that more skin meant greater treasures. Ha ha. Great times.
In 89, the ladies were taking everything off, top and bottom. They were encouraged to do so by none other than Ronnie Lechien. There must have been some complaints because about 30 minutes later, Ronnie had to apologize to the crowd.
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skankhunt69
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skankhunt69 7/25/2021 12:25pm
7/25/2021 12:25pm
Party’s were weak this year.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/25/2021 1:43pm
7/25/2021 1:43pm
skankhunt69 wrote:
Party’s were weak this year.
You’re still dealing with the COVID madness
Chris_Buehler
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Chris_Buehler 7/25/2021 2:32pm
7/25/2021 2:32pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Bad news. Carson blew out his shoulder this week. He's still going to try and give it a go for the locals.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
He qualified 21st overall.
CPR wrote:
Carson scored points with 18th in moto 1, awesome on a 2t 250. But does anyone know what happened in moto 2? Saw him briefly on...
Carson scored points with 18th in moto 1, awesome on a 2t 250.
But does anyone know what happened in moto 2? Saw him briefly on timing but disappeared and not in the results at all?
He couldnt line up 2nd moto with his shoulder being so yoked. Where's all the 2-stroke fanboy's giving this kid props for finishing top 20 with a injured shoulder? Not one thread about him
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 7/25/2021 4:58pm
7/25/2021 4:58pm
BevoDave wrote:
Remember the crowning of Ms. Washougal in the 70’s/80’s? They had to shut it down bc too many contestants figured out that more skin meant greater...
Remember the crowning of Ms. Washougal in the 70’s/80’s? They had to shut it down bc too many contestants figured out that more skin meant greater treasures. Ha ha. Great times.
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
In 89, the ladies were taking everything off, top and bottom. They were encouraged to do so by none other than Ronnie Lechien. There must have...
In 89, the ladies were taking everything off, top and bottom. They were encouraged to do so by none other than Ronnie Lechien. There must have been some complaints because about 30 minutes later, Ronnie had to apologize to the crowd.
I’m pretty sure that I was there that year……

Didn’t Lechien have a terrible first moto (crashed?) and came out the second moto and spanked the shit out of everyone? Seem to remember that he was in the tower between motos really cranking up the crowd, too.
ACBailey89
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ACBailey89 7/25/2021 5:01pm
7/25/2021 5:01pm
NorCal1975 wrote:
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of...
I think they have been fighting neighbors complaining and encroaching development for a while, no? I remember reading a few years ago some neighbor (who of course moved in long after the track was built) was suing for some nonsense, not sure it went anywhere. But, it is Washington state, so fun, noise, etc. are tightly regulated - just like California.
Seemed like all the neighbors rented out there land for parking this year and it still wasn’t enough parking. Shougal was packed. Good to see it.
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