Yamaha 450

shortshift5
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shortshift5
Edited Date/Time 5/2/2021 10:25am
Can we all acknowledge the bike is not on par for supercross? How many careers need to be sacrificed? Ferrandis is an elite talent and can’t do anything. Plessinger is finally able to be mediocre after 3 years, barcia looks like he’s riding a 85 compared to the heavy blue pig, and web of went from bust to champion. I can’t believe people still defend the Yamaha.
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deluxeman
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deluxeman 2/13/2021 8:41pm
2/13/2021 8:41pm
You will get a lot of BluCru hate on this one. But your more right than wrong.
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Racer142
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Racer142 2/13/2021 9:18pm
2/13/2021 9:18pm
Barcia is similar to last year maybe a little better. That could easily be team more than bike. Last year he had multiple great rides from the back of the pack because of terrible starts (not the yamaha fault) and his starts seem to be getting better this year. Plessinger is exactly where he should be considering injuries. Ferrandis is the only unknown and he had an injury prior to the start of the season and is trying to race back into shape. Stewart and plessinger but seem to be doing fine. You really can't compare the yz James rode to the current one.

Bottom line is it up to spec of the other bikes? Probably not but I don't think it's because of the bike so much as the team and riders. Kawasaki had RV and then ET. Honda has KR. KTM had RD MM and CW. Husqvarna has ZO and JA. It hasn't left much room at the top for the past decade.
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Caffeine & Gasoline 2/13/2021 9:21pm
2/13/2021 9:21pm
I can’t believe anyone would defend against this statement. It’s just too bull headed to get spun around on a tight track. Take some cc’s out and it works great apparently. I’m a blu cru guy but I wouldn’t say it’s a good Supercross 450. I feel like the bike is made for the masses consistently scoring high in shootouts the last few years. Easy to get on for new riders.
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Moto520
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Moto520 2/13/2021 9:45pm
2/13/2021 9:45pm
Easy to ride fast and safe at the local tracks that we all ride at. Not so good for supercross which we don’t ride
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fpandjic
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fpandjic 2/14/2021 12:30am
2/14/2021 12:30am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 12:38am
And yet in MXGP, the bike is challenging for race wins
Leeham
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Leeham 2/14/2021 1:04am
2/14/2021 1:04am
shortshift5 wrote:
Can we all acknowledge the bike is not on par for supercross? How many careers need to be sacrificed? Ferrandis is an elite talent and can’t...
Can we all acknowledge the bike is not on par for supercross? How many careers need to be sacrificed? Ferrandis is an elite talent and can’t do anything. Plessinger is finally able to be mediocre after 3 years, barcia looks like he’s riding a 85 compared to the heavy blue pig, and web of went from bust to champion. I can’t believe people still defend the Yamaha.
I forgot you were supposed to be the 4th rider on the Star 450 team but you said the bike was unrideable and left.
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fullysicmate
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fullysicmate 2/14/2021 1:27am
2/14/2021 1:27am
I thought it was matter of pick your colour until I got a yz450. Fuck that, they need a major change before I go back, I’m way quicker on a ktm, I used to hate ktm, for fuck sake yami, just copy them so I can go back....
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DrinkMoreWater 2/14/2021 1:45am
2/14/2021 1:45am
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike.

The only one that made it work is JS7 but that's JS7, he even hated the bike.
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NoGasNoFiga793 2/14/2021 2:14am
2/14/2021 2:14am
I really don't like yami's.
Good bike for amateurs but not for pros.
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cloud41
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cloud41 2/14/2021 5:49am
2/14/2021 5:49am
Maybe we will get lucky for the 2022 and they reverse the engine tilt, air box, and gas tank design.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 2/14/2021 5:54am
2/14/2021 5:54am
Just as many Yamaha 450s in the top 10 in points as there are KTMs
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 2/14/2021 5:57am
2/14/2021 5:57am
Mookie is better on the Yamaha than the Honda...

BUT, this is vital. And it’s not an Austrian bike so there will be hate no matter what.
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Flatliner
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Flatliner 2/14/2021 5:57am
2/14/2021 5:57am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike. The only one that made it work is JS7 but...
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike.

The only one that made it work is JS7 but that's JS7, he even hated the bike.
I’m not sure why you’re acting like the star bike is anything like the bike Stewart raced, even Webb’s factory bike is pretty different.
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Thisusernameisavailable 2/14/2021 6:06am
2/14/2021 6:06am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike. The only one that made it work is JS7 but...
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike.

The only one that made it work is JS7 but that's JS7, he even hated the bike.
There are people on this forum who truly believe that bike development since 2016 (Referring to Roczen winning on the RMZ) has been huge...

On that basis, You can't even begin to compare a ten year old bike to what is currently being ridden.
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Thisusernameisavailable 2/14/2021 6:10am
2/14/2021 6:10am
shortshift5 wrote:
Can we all acknowledge the bike is not on par for supercross? How many careers need to be sacrificed? Ferrandis is an elite talent and can’t...
Can we all acknowledge the bike is not on par for supercross? How many careers need to be sacrificed? Ferrandis is an elite talent and can’t do anything. Plessinger is finally able to be mediocre after 3 years, barcia looks like he’s riding a 85 compared to the heavy blue pig, and web of went from bust to champion. I can’t believe people still defend the Yamaha.
Where did Aaron finish last night?

If Ferrandis is the "Elite talent" as you speak of, why didn't he stick his YZF in the top 10 also? At least we can say that MAYBE that is all the bike is capable of. Not forgetting the fact he's shown already this year it can do better than that anyway.
Its not about the bike.
Nonsense OP... Next..
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Flatliner
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Flatliner 2/14/2021 6:12am
2/14/2021 6:12am
Who on star is actually ready to win, on any bike? Ferrandis is in his first season, plessinger and Stewart are where they would be with any brand.

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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 2/14/2021 6:14am
2/14/2021 6:14am
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this stage of their career. Barcia went from struggling and being off the pace to being a serious contender for wins at every race.

I agree the US factory Yamaha team has never been run perfectly and maybe the TLD team is a better fit, but the difference is too large to strike it up to the vibe. It’s the bike.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 2/14/2021 6:31am
2/14/2021 6:31am
sandtrack315 wrote:
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this...
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this stage of their career. Barcia went from struggling and being off the pace to being a serious contender for wins at every race.

I agree the US factory Yamaha team has never been run perfectly and maybe the TLD team is a better fit, but the difference is too large to strike it up to the vibe. It’s the bike.
Go look at Bam’s results last year up to Daytona. They’re the same. But hey, don’t let facts get you all fucked up
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Dirty Points 2/14/2021 6:45am
2/14/2021 6:45am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 7:13am
sandtrack315 wrote:
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this...
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this stage of their career. Barcia went from struggling and being off the pace to being a serious contender for wins at every race.

I agree the US factory Yamaha team has never been run perfectly and maybe the TLD team is a better fit, but the difference is too large to strike it up to the vibe. It’s the bike.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Go look at Bam’s results last year up to Daytona. They’re the same. But hey, don’t let facts get you all fucked up
Barcia through 7 rounds:

2021: 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win
2020: 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win

He's now fallen pretty far behind where he was at this point last season, but we'll see.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 2/14/2021 6:52am
2/14/2021 6:52am
sandtrack315 wrote:
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this...
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this stage of their career. Barcia went from struggling and being off the pace to being a serious contender for wins at every race.

I agree the US factory Yamaha team has never been run perfectly and maybe the TLD team is a better fit, but the difference is too large to strike it up to the vibe. It’s the bike.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Go look at Bam’s results last year up to Daytona. They’re the same. But hey, don’t let facts get you all fucked up
Dirty Points wrote:
Barcia through 7 rounds: [b]2021:[/b] 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win [b]2020:[/b] 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win He's now...
Barcia through 7 rounds:

2021: 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win
2020: 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win

He's now fallen pretty far behind where he was at this point last season, but we'll see.
Man I hate facts...thanks for the numbers
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 6:53am
2/14/2021 6:53am
Kind of silly compare the seasons. To many variables. If he didn’t tangle with friese and lose a shifter in Indy he would be well ahead. But if you want to compare seasons let’s wait til the end cause he finished salt lake 8, 8, 9, 21, 9, 9, 20. Not exactly killing it
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Dirty Points 2/14/2021 6:58am
2/14/2021 6:58am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 7:12am
soggy wrote:
Kind of silly compare the seasons. To many variables. If he didn’t tangle with friese and lose a shifter in Indy he would be well ahead...
Kind of silly compare the seasons. To many variables. If he didn’t tangle with friese and lose a shifter in Indy he would be well ahead. But if you want to compare seasons let’s wait til the end cause he finished salt lake 8, 8, 9, 21, 9, 9, 20. Not exactly killing it
That's kind of the point.

He has a history of winning pace and of being strong out of the gate each season, but risky decisions (like the Friese incident), injury, and fatigue/focus tend to drag him down in the points as the season progresses.

If a difference comes in the second half of the season, that will be new. But we haven't seen any results better than expected from him yet.

For the record, even had he finished on the podium last week (he was running third when he went down), he would be not be "well ahead" -- his point total for this hypothetical mulligan of a second of third would still behind his 2020 to-date. As it sits, he has quite a ways to catch up.

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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 2/14/2021 7:06am
2/14/2021 7:06am
soggy wrote:
Kind of silly compare the seasons. To many variables. If he didn’t tangle with friese and lose a shifter in Indy he would be well ahead...
Kind of silly compare the seasons. To many variables. If he didn’t tangle with friese and lose a shifter in Indy he would be well ahead. But if you want to compare seasons let’s wait til the end cause he finished salt lake 8, 8, 9, 21, 9, 9, 20. Not exactly killing it
Is that not the point being made here? Comparing Barcia on a Yamaha to him on a KTM?
Zycki11
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Zycki11 2/14/2021 7:06am
2/14/2021 7:06am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike. The only one that made it work is JS7 but...
Barcia got worse on it, so did Webb, Webb looked like a passenger on that bike.

The only one that made it work is JS7 but that's JS7, he even hated the bike.
Bzzzz wrong. Barcia went from JGR Suzuki getting 12th place finishes to actually winning on that “blue pig” it’s quite funny to read vital and listen to people discuss how the bike is bad. If you look at Mookies bike. It looks planted, handles and turns well.

Vital members suffer from the same rhetoric people do with politics. Read something somewhere, hear it for the second time and it must be true! Then it becomes fact!

Facts: Factory Yamaha ran by McCarty was poorly ran and did not see things with an open mind. Ferrandis had posted the best result of the team while also having the least time to test. AP had improved this year when star took over. Malcolm says the bike is great. The bike has lost over 8lbs this year.

Stop talking about the bike.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 2/14/2021 7:22am
2/14/2021 7:22am
sandtrack315 wrote:
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this...
It’s hard to look at Barcia this year and last and not conclude the blue bike was holding him back. Riders don’t usually improve at this stage of their career. Barcia went from struggling and being off the pace to being a serious contender for wins at every race.

I agree the US factory Yamaha team has never been run perfectly and maybe the TLD team is a better fit, but the difference is too large to strike it up to the vibe. It’s the bike.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Go look at Bam’s results last year up to Daytona. They’re the same. But hey, don’t let facts get you all fucked up
Dirty Points wrote:
Barcia through 7 rounds: [b]2021:[/b] 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win [b]2020:[/b] 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win He's now...
Barcia through 7 rounds:

2021: 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win
2020: 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win

He's now fallen pretty far behind where he was at this point last season, but we'll see.
Oh come on, you know his speed is better this year. You’re counting a race he didn’t have a shifter and a race he got taken out on the last lap.

He just didn’t have winning speed last year. He does this year. He will get another win.
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 7:26am
2/14/2021 7:26am
Dirty Points wrote:
That's kind of the point. He has a history of winning pace and of being strong out of the gate each season, but risky decisions (like...
That's kind of the point.

He has a history of winning pace and of being strong out of the gate each season, but risky decisions (like the Friese incident), injury, and fatigue/focus tend to drag him down in the points as the season progresses.

If a difference comes in the second half of the season, that will be new. But we haven't seen any results better than expected from him yet.

For the record, even had he finished on the podium last week (he was running third when he went down), he would be not be "well ahead" -- his point total for this hypothetical mulligan of a second of third would still behind his 2020 to-date. As it sits, he has quite a ways to catch up.

I was lumping the shifter incident in as well as far as points count, but I don’t disagree with anything you said
Dirty Points 2/14/2021 7:31am
2/14/2021 7:31am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 7:35am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Go look at Bam’s results last year up to Daytona. They’re the same. But hey, don’t let facts get you all fucked up
Dirty Points wrote:
Barcia through 7 rounds: [b]2021:[/b] 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win [b]2020:[/b] 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win He's now...
Barcia through 7 rounds:

2021: 1-9-4-13-2-19-4, 5th place, 115 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win
2020: 1-2-9-5-6-5-4, 4th place, 135 pts, 2 podiums, 1 win

He's now fallen pretty far behind where he was at this point last season, but we'll see.
sandtrack315 wrote:
Oh come on, you know his speed is better this year. You’re counting a race he didn’t have a shifter and a race he got taken...
Oh come on, you know his speed is better this year. You’re counting a race he didn’t have a shifter and a race he got taken out on the last lap.

He just didn’t have winning speed last year. He does this year. He will get another win.
Still has only managed to land on the podium twice with his "winning speed".

And the dude was on it through the first seven races last year. His one bad race at A2 he was riding with the flu.
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Naoooch
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Naoooch 2/14/2021 7:34am
2/14/2021 7:34am
Racer142 wrote:
Barcia is similar to last year maybe a little better. That could easily be team more than bike. Last year he had multiple great rides from...
Barcia is similar to last year maybe a little better. That could easily be team more than bike. Last year he had multiple great rides from the back of the pack because of terrible starts (not the yamaha fault) and his starts seem to be getting better this year. Plessinger is exactly where he should be considering injuries. Ferrandis is the only unknown and he had an injury prior to the start of the season and is trying to race back into shape. Stewart and plessinger but seem to be doing fine. You really can't compare the yz James rode to the current one.

Bottom line is it up to spec of the other bikes? Probably not but I don't think it's because of the bike so much as the team and riders. Kawasaki had RV and then ET. Honda has KR. KTM had RD MM and CW. Husqvarna has ZO and JA. It hasn't left much room at the top for the past decade.


ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

barcia has never been so good. Stop with the fanboyism of yamaha.

The only win barcia got was situationnal, mud etc...
Now he is top 3 contender every race.

Amen at this topic.

I really hope ferrandis get a HUGE paycheck because he is waisting his time.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 2/14/2021 7:36am
2/14/2021 7:36am
Yeah y’all are delusional if you don’t see Barcia as faster this season.

The Yamaha is a great bike. It just didn’t work as well for him, in supercross, on that team.
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Dirty Points 2/14/2021 7:44am
2/14/2021 7:44am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 9:38am
sandtrack315 wrote:
Yeah y’all are delusional if you don’t see Barcia as faster this season. The Yamaha is a great bike. It just didn’t work as well for...
Yeah y’all are delusional if you don’t see Barcia as faster this season.

The Yamaha is a great bike. It just didn’t work as well for him, in supercross, on that team.
I see him as a dude who has always been super fast/capable but with questionable decision making and focus across three makes.

If the fourth bike makes the difference, that would be pretty cool -- it is a proven bike that we know can win.

But he also looks like Justin Barcia. Just the notion that we are able to pick apart where his results suffered from his situtationally running into things (tough blocks and other riders) this season as a new run of bad luck is odd to me. He's been doing that for years.
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