Ah, here's the cause of the confusion...

cudby
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6/15/2009 4:57pm
I was right there. With the off-camber before that jump, it was highly unlikely that Searle could even see that flag. I saw Barcia do exactly the same thing and thought at the time "they can't see that flag" as they are leaned over to the right focusing on the rut and on the gas toward the lip.
ridge
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6/15/2009 5:02pm
ridge wrote:
Yup. There's too much going on to have the flag on the lip of a jump. Waving the flag in the turn before gives a second...
Yup. There's too much going on to have the flag on the lip of a jump.

Waving the flag in the turn before gives a second or two for it to register in the rider's head.

jbomx...you're being sarcastic...right? Smile
jbomx363 wrote:
Nope.. not at all... As was mentioned numerous times in the Grant instance, you can't leave the excuse of "I didn't see it" or "I was...
Nope.. not at all...


As was mentioned numerous times in the Grant instance, you can't leave the excuse of "I didn't see it" or "I was confused" etc. etc.


As DC said before (paraphrasing here), the flag was out, that's it, end of discussion.
Ahhh, I see what you're saying now.


Very true. If they didn't give Grant the win, then how can they go back on the Tommy penalty?
MXTR
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6/15/2009 5:10pm
Just curious why they didn't penalized the top 5 guys in the 1st 450 moto. I could've sworn I saw the red/white cross out over that big turning double. Cooper was the first to roll the double.

That's an interesting question though, what happens if the top five get docked a positiion? Who wins?
rileymx
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6/15/2009 5:20pm
with all this flag inventing.......i'm not sure what does the plain old yellow falg means anymore...........
shouldn't they just make the yellow be respected as a caution advice, meanning no jump area..??

The Shop

aminkman
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6/15/2009 5:39pm
If you look at both video's, you can see that all Searles saw was a stick.
Grants was much more obvious.
6/15/2009 5:54pm
was that tyla rattray that didnt jump? if he could see it, and obey....
anniebertmojo
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6/15/2009 6:04pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it. I've seen different versions, but the...
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it.

I've seen different versions, but the SCCA does a good job with flagging and communications. www.texasscca.org/novice.pdf
I guess you've never raced in a SCCA Pro race or a Grand Am or ALMS race ... Sometimes it becomes sporty when your driving with them being aggressive with the flags....LOL

On a serious note, the SCCA flaggers do a great job for a volunteer worker group. They are the benchmark for flaggers in the autoracing world btw. The flaggers work all types of autoracing events... being local races, pro road racing events, F1 to NASCAR... they do an amazing job.

The SCCA flaggers have to go through a class and have a full understanding on the who's, what's, and where things work at a race course, and a lot of them are personal friends of the drivers.

Maybe?... the MX world needs that now? Some type of class or guidelines for the flaggers. Maybe they already do that... but just food for thought.

Being a flagger is a tough job (being car racing, MX, etc...) and they are not always appreciated, but much needed.
denny360
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6/15/2009 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 6:19pm
GuyB wrote:
After the race Tyla Rattray was brought in as the third-place guy for the 250 class (due to a penalty assessed to Tommy Searle), and then...
After the race Tyla Rattray was brought in as the third-place guy for the 250 class (due to a penalty assessed to Tommy Searle), and then later Tommy Searle was reinstated and the results amended.

I'm not sure I get the ruling (I'm supposed to get an explanation tomorrow), but here's a video someone sent me showing the infraction.



The color of the flags changed after Hangtown, but I think they also need to work on how the flags are displayed.
Hmmm.
v1rus99
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6/15/2009 6:11pm
Sorry the whiteflag with the red does not work. It needs to be all red......

They should also do something that they do here in Aus. They should hold the flag up like this guy is the corner before. On the jump itself or closer to the incident the flagger should be waving that flag. Then after the incident there should be a green flag to indicate to the riders that they can continue.

It might be a bit over kill but it works.
SH_105
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6/15/2009 6:27pm
Im not trying to be hard on the flagger but all of these guys need to realize that they need to directing riders AWAY from the crash not TOWARDS it!! Flaggers need to be on the side of the track that the rider is down on so that he can: One, Block the downed rider and Two, push the on coming riders away from the downed rider. I know Davey and the whole crew is working on all types of things at the moment, but I feel later on we need a Team of flaggers who know what they are doing and have them travel to the races.


SH 32
zookrider62!
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6/15/2009 6:31pm
v1rus99 wrote:
Sorry the whiteflag with the red does not work. It needs to be all red...... They should also do something that they do here in Aus...
Sorry the whiteflag with the red does not work. It needs to be all red......

They should also do something that they do here in Aus. They should hold the flag up like this guy is the corner before. On the jump itself or closer to the incident the flagger should be waving that flag. Then after the incident there should be a green flag to indicate to the riders that they can continue.

It might be a bit over kill but it works.
all red flag means restart
ridge
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6/15/2009 6:34pm
SH_105 wrote:
Im not trying to be hard on the flagger but all of these guys need to realize that they need to directing riders AWAY from the...
Im not trying to be hard on the flagger but all of these guys need to realize that they need to directing riders AWAY from the crash not TOWARDS it!! Flaggers need to be on the side of the track that the rider is down on so that he can: One, Block the downed rider and Two, push the on coming riders away from the downed rider. I know Davey and the whole crew is working on all types of things at the moment, but I feel later on we need a Team of flaggers who know what they are doing and have them travel to the races.


SH 32
I'm with ya!



Since we are using our thinking caps...let's make them females. Hot females. Hmmm, "The Rockstar Flagger girls". Who wouldn't pay attention then (besides that rumored 1 ex-factory gay guy?)
TooOldToPlay
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6/15/2009 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a 3' x 4' flag....maybe this would help......

Wolfman
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6/15/2009 6:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a...
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a 3' x 4' flag....maybe this would help......

Thats pretty funny. But after thinking about it for a sec, I have to say that the riders know their pit board is going to be there and are looking for it.

Some guys, not aimed at you TooOld, need to realize that these guys are flat hauling ass and arent out there looking around. They are focused on their race line, so sometimes one or more may not see or recognize a flag. IMO.

To add to that, I'm not saying that Ponca does everything the best, but when I raced there, I could hear that whistle blowing and it alerted me that there was a flag out ahead, sometimes 2 corners ahead(maybe more? Been years....).
6/15/2009 6:52pm
Create the flagger of the week award.

Have a Championship, with points.

A competition within a competition, so to speak…

Incentive.

Contracts, Sponsors, the whole 9…. Smile
PigFace
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6/15/2009 6:55pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it. I've seen different versions, but the...
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it.

I've seen different versions, but the SCCA does a good job with flagging and communications. www.texasscca.org/novice.pdf
Thats right. The flag person wasn't holding the other side of the flag (and thats how it is explained at the riders meeting), so #123 could see it. After #123 passed/jumped he grabbed it and help it flat for the other riders and they could see it and they didn't jump.

Was that #151 that jumped it at the ending of the clip and was he docked a position?
TooOldToPlay
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6/15/2009 6:57pm
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a...
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a 3' x 4' flag....maybe this would help......

Wolfman wrote:
Thats pretty funny. But after thinking about it for a sec, I have to say that the riders know their pit board is going to be...
Thats pretty funny. But after thinking about it for a sec, I have to say that the riders know their pit board is going to be there and are looking for it.

Some guys, not aimed at you TooOld, need to realize that these guys are flat hauling ass and arent out there looking around. They are focused on their race line, so sometimes one or more may not see or recognize a flag. IMO.

To add to that, I'm not saying that Ponca does everything the best, but when I raced there, I could hear that whistle blowing and it alerted me that there was a flag out ahead, sometimes 2 corners ahead(maybe more? Been years....).
Crap..... I hate it when you are right Wolfman...
Wolfman
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6/15/2009 6:59pm
You hate it when I'm right? Dang... Smile
I hate it when you are right too!
ridge
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6/15/2009 7:09pm
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a...
My problem with this whole flagging thing is that for some reason the riders can see 2" writing on a pit board, but cant see a 3' x 4' flag....maybe this would help......

They are too focused and committed to do anything about a flag on the lip of the jump. The flag needs to be well before the jump to let it register in the rider's mind. Do you know how many colors and objects blend in at full throttle?

It's not like these guys are out for a Sunday cruise; they are riding at the very edge of control all the time. To get them to notice a flag, first you have to get their attention by standing out in the track a little.

1. Flaggers need to get out on the track and direct traffic.
2. Flaggers need to stop throwing the "Driver Down" flag for stupid reasons.
3. Flaggers need to be trained better. (ie: how they can affect the race in negative ways)
Digger437
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6/15/2009 7:25pm
Plus Tooold, if you are homeschooled liek me, u can't read that flag! haha
BobbyM
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6/15/2009 7:27pm
wave the mafucker...jesus!
wiff
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6/15/2009 7:45pm
MXTR wrote:
Just curious why they didn't penalized the top 5 guys in the 1st 450 moto. I could've sworn I saw the red/white cross out over that...
Just curious why they didn't penalized the top 5 guys in the 1st 450 moto. I could've sworn I saw the red/white cross out over that big turning double. Cooper was the first to roll the double.

That's an interesting question though, what happens if the top five get docked a positiion? Who wins?
I was wondering the same thing. Not even a mention of it any where.
Wolfman
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6/15/2009 7:55pm
Muscle Milk girl with a flag, any flag, painted on her chest. Ahhh fug, Im drunk never mind.
BobbyM
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6/15/2009 8:06pm
this is all fucking bullshit. have any of you fjacks heard of common sense? and if that doesn't work and somebody lands on somebody lifetime ban....period.
BobbyM
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6/15/2009 8:07pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Flags out.. tough tootie. Penalize is the only choice. Don't start waffling now.
i think yer right
gt80rider
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6/15/2009 8:48pm
when will they quite screwing around and just make it the red cross flag, universally known as "no doubling"....???
fcr
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6/15/2009 8:48pm
The guy was holding it so he couldn't see it, but the flag was out. It is the riders responsibility to see the flag, the flagger needs to make the flag and himself visible to the riders, Very simple. If the flagger is not making it known that the flag is out for a reason, then the rider will not know that there is a situation going on. Point is that flagger was not doing the job well when he went by.
Trinitite
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6/15/2009 9:06pm
flagger wasn't waving the flag. no one would have seen that coming down that hill trying to hit that jump. if he was at fault for that he was just as fault for not telling the sunburned fool up in the crowd not to put some sunscreen on.
6/15/2009 11:18pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
gt80rider wrote:
when will they quite screwing around and just make it the red cross flag, universally known as "no doubling"....???
too bad that everyone was tripling that......



searle may have thought doubling was okay........think about it. searle shouldnt have been penalize...he slowed way the fuck down, safely "jumped" that tiny ass "double" and even moved 10 feet over to his right. and I hate english people but whats right is right.


and he did not land on the back side of the jump....he "cased" it
wildbill
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6/15/2009 11:27pm
elsinore wrote:
Double standard here. They didn't reinstate Josh Grants's win at Hangtown, but it's ok for Searle?
no doubt, even though Searle's double was barley big enough to even worry about.

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