The bike.the myth.the ride that changed mx riding

johnmx250
Edited Date/Time 12/29/2020 2:30am
https://youtu.be/SP5d5g-x5WY
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/26/2020 10:46am
12/26/2020 10:46am
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
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JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 12/26/2020 11:04am
12/26/2020 11:04am
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
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racin mason
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racin mason 12/26/2020 11:08am
12/26/2020 11:08am
I thought it was going to be about Willi Bauer's Maico
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Suicidal_Tendencies 12/26/2020 12:09pm
12/26/2020 12:09pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
Way back in 1989, Greg Zitterkopf was qualifying and racing the nats on a 4 stroke ATK.
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Suicidal_Tendencies 12/26/2020 12:10pm
12/26/2020 12:10pm
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 12/26/2020 12:38pm
12/26/2020 12:38pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125.

But I definitely think that they would have been relatively close and obviously RC would have been more competition in the class than Stewart ever had, Likewise for Stewart being far better than any other 125 racer he had to face.

We were pretty fortunate to have seen both of them race at all.....
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Suicidal_Tendencies 12/26/2020 12:49pm
12/26/2020 12:49pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125. But I definitely think that they would have...
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125.

But I definitely think that they would have been relatively close and obviously RC would have been more competition in the class than Stewart ever had, Likewise for Stewart being far better than any other 125 racer he had to face.

We were pretty fortunate to have seen both of them race at all.....
I'm glad I was able to see them both, but Stewart all the CD way on a 125. His scrubbing technique, which was new at the time, enabled Stewart to smoke his competition. That and his obvious talent. I think he would have had RC's number.
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ZOBITO
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ZOBITO 12/26/2020 1:28pm
12/26/2020 1:28pm
Stew changed everything.
And that bike had nothing to do about it.
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KMC440
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KMC440 12/26/2020 1:31pm
12/26/2020 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 12/28/2020 5:35am
Wait a second ... you sure it wasn't one of mine?

Could've bet that's where you were goin...
Watch all the thumbs down pop up 😉

James was the fastest on a 125. That last year he was on one in the Millville whoops was epic.
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ZOBITO
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ZOBITO 12/26/2020 1:34pm
12/26/2020 1:34pm
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main.





https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-fo…
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 12/26/2020 1:40pm
12/26/2020 1:40pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
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eric513anderson 12/26/2020 2:03pm
12/26/2020 2:03pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
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snowy816
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snowy816 12/26/2020 2:10pm
12/26/2020 2:10pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
eric513anderson wrote:
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That...
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
Remember Burner saying that KX250 was a hand full and scary to ride.
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eric513anderson 12/26/2020 2:14pm
12/26/2020 2:14pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
eric513anderson wrote:
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That...
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
snowy816 wrote:
Remember Burner saying that KX250 was a hand full and scary to ride.
I’ve heard that before too. I remember in a older issue of MXA when Jody had a Pro Circuit built a YZ 250 he said the ported cylinder that Reed ran was the same way. I’d love to ride one just to see how much of a fire breather those bikes were! Those guys in my mind were mere mortals riding those!
ktmfun219
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ktmfun219 12/26/2020 3:31pm
12/26/2020 3:31pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Your last sentence is incorrect just as a note.
The "Bomber" has that distinguished award!
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numbers
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numbers 12/26/2020 3:37pm
12/26/2020 3:37pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
Think that was at the king dome.
fullysicmate 12/26/2020 3:39pm
12/26/2020 3:39pm
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
ZOBITO wrote:
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468140/s1200_Smaillance.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468139/s1200_smail9.jpg[/img] https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-forgot/
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main.





https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-fo…
Who’s this fella?
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Renner153
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Renner153 12/26/2020 3:42pm
12/26/2020 3:42pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
eric513anderson wrote:
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That...
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
That doesn’t explain 07 when RC was semi retired and still putting it to James.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 12/26/2020 4:01pm
12/26/2020 4:01pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125. But I definitely think that they would have...
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125.

But I definitely think that they would have been relatively close and obviously RC would have been more competition in the class than Stewart ever had, Likewise for Stewart being far better than any other 125 racer he had to face.

We were pretty fortunate to have seen both of them race at all.....
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I'm glad I was able to see them both, but Stewart all the CD way on a 125. His scrubbing technique, which was new at the...
I'm glad I was able to see them both, but Stewart all the CD way on a 125. His scrubbing technique, which was new at the time, enabled Stewart to smoke his competition. That and his obvious talent. I think he would have had RC's number.
I definitely think that Stewart was faster, I’m just not sure about the ’smoked’ part. RC was as relentless as any pro racer of any era, and obviously these are hypothetical situations, but from my subjective viewpoint those 2 guys would have just about killed each other if they would have started on 125s at the same time.

I think that James would have won more races, but it wouldn’t have been a cakewalk by any stretch of the imagination.
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Titan1
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Titan1 12/26/2020 4:06pm
12/26/2020 4:06pm
I think James would have changed how the world rides dirt bikes no matter what color his bike was at the time...he was a revolutionary! Relative to other factory bikes at the time, His bike was a good factory 125 two stroke...nothing to special about it.

Title should read “The man. the myth. the rider that changed MX riding”.
yz25
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yz25 12/26/2020 4:06pm
12/26/2020 4:06pm
“Bike was good, James was great”!
Thanks for posting. Great clip. Was glad to see him race the 125 also.
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eric513anderson 12/26/2020 4:11pm
12/26/2020 4:11pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125. But I definitely think that they would have...
I don’t know about ’smoked’, but I do agree and believe that Stewart was faster on a 125.

But I definitely think that they would have been relatively close and obviously RC would have been more competition in the class than Stewart ever had, Likewise for Stewart being far better than any other 125 racer he had to face.

We were pretty fortunate to have seen both of them race at all.....
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I'm glad I was able to see them both, but Stewart all the CD way on a 125. His scrubbing technique, which was new at the...
I'm glad I was able to see them both, but Stewart all the CD way on a 125. His scrubbing technique, which was new at the time, enabled Stewart to smoke his competition. That and his obvious talent. I think he would have had RC's number.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I definitely think that Stewart was faster, I’m just not sure about the ’smoked’ part. RC was as relentless as any pro racer of any era...
I definitely think that Stewart was faster, I’m just not sure about the ’smoked’ part. RC was as relentless as any pro racer of any era, and obviously these are hypothetical situations, but from my subjective viewpoint those 2 guys would have just about killed each other if they would have started on 125s at the same time.

I think that James would have won more races, but it wouldn’t have been a cakewalk by any stretch of the imagination.
Ditto
Suicidal_Tendencies 12/26/2020 4:17pm
12/26/2020 4:17pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
ktmfun219 wrote:
Your last sentence is incorrect just as a note.
The "Bomber" has that distinguished award!
Not according to the record books. Smile
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 12/26/2020 4:19pm
12/26/2020 4:19pm
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
ZOBITO wrote:
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468140/s1200_Smaillance.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468139/s1200_smail9.jpg[/img] https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-forgot/
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main.





https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-fo…
fullysicmate wrote:
Who’s this fella?
https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/lance-smail/points
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 12/26/2020 4:35pm
12/26/2020 4:35pm
Excellent video! I kind of wish it has some clips of him riding it. I love hearing stories like that. I bet Roncada was like WTF 😬
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/26/2020 4:50pm
12/26/2020 4:50pm
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
ZOBITO wrote:
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468140/s1200_Smaillance.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468139/s1200_smail9.jpg[/img] https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-forgot/
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main.





https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-fo…
And I'm thinking his machanic was one of the coolest dudes in the pits and is now a VIP at KTM.
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Dirty Points 12/26/2020 4:51pm
12/26/2020 4:51pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
Or the BSA Gold Star, or the Twin Pipe CZ, or the '74 YZ360, or...
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/26/2020 4:53pm
12/26/2020 4:53pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
Dirty Points wrote:
Or the BSA Gold Star, or the Twin Pipe CZ, or the '74 YZ360, or...
What...no Rickman Metisse?
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Le Bagnard
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Le Bagnard 12/26/2020 7:40pm
12/26/2020 7:40pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
eric513anderson wrote:
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That...
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
Ricky had race craft, James was WFO
JeremyK
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JeremyK 12/26/2020 8:01pm
12/26/2020 8:01pm
I thought for sure this was about the yz400f
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