Baggett??

EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 11/19/2020 11:20am
11/19/2020 11:20am
Courts are going to be clogged for YEARS over Covid lawsuits

Tons of articles and opinions have been written on it
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Crush
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Crush 11/19/2020 3:34pm
11/19/2020 3:34pm
Crush wrote:
How do you come to terms on a contract that’s in place? Sounds shady.
EngIceDave wrote:
You're asking to come to terms on something that is void. Example; You have a contract to sell a million widgets. You make a million widgets...
You're asking to come to terms on something that is void.


Example; You have a contract to sell a million widgets. You make a million widgets.

Covid comes, crushes the widget industry and your contract is voided

You ask "Why? We have a contract! That isn't fair."

The law and fair isn't always aligned.

An act of God crushed your business, no it's one's fault. One of those things.

That is a very simplistic version, but that is it.
GrapeApe wrote:
Force Majeure clauses do not automatically excuse performance. A party cannot renegotiate contracts and trade agreements just because we're in a pandemic, there must be measurable...
Force Majeure clauses do not automatically excuse performance. A party cannot renegotiate contracts and trade agreements just because we're in a pandemic, there must be measurable damage that justifies voiding an existing agreement. Have the powersports and related industries been "crushed"? You would have a better idea that me, but the answer lies in a grey area that ultimately can only be decided in court. Until a court excuses performance, the existing contract is valid. Lawyers love these cases, big fee generators.
I'd have thought that could be cited if the team didn't race at all... ie/and/or their income source, ie racing ceased.... but both series were finished... ?
bigk218
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bigk218 11/19/2020 4:07pm
11/19/2020 4:07pm
Sport: we need to grow the sport

Also sport: one of the sports elite athletes and a fan favorite broke his contract and no one knows anything about it and we may never know what happened so move on.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/19/2020 4:15pm
11/19/2020 4:15pm
bigk218 wrote:
Sport: we need to grow the sport Also sport: one of the sports elite athletes and a fan favorite broke his contract and no one knows...
Sport: we need to grow the sport

Also sport: one of the sports elite athletes and a fan favorite broke his contract and no one knows anything about it and we may never know what happened so move on.
I don't know that a party is "breaking" a contract if that contract was in breach to begin with (as indicated by Matthes' comments).
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The Shop

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numbers
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numbers 11/19/2020 4:21pm
11/19/2020 4:21pm
DonM wrote:
Google Force Majeure...Covid has caused a lot of this to happen.
RalphS wrote:
Or Google act of God legal meaning
DonM wrote:
And your point is? Many companies have used force majeure because of Covid...the courts will decide whether or not the clause in the contract covers Covid....all...
And your point is? Many companies have used force majeure because of Covid...the courts will decide whether or not the clause in the contract covers Covid....all depends on the language in the clause...
This has become the new norm. This is also why a lawyer should prepare your contracts.
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bigk218
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bigk218 11/19/2020 4:31pm
11/19/2020 4:31pm
bigk218 wrote:
Sport: we need to grow the sport Also sport: one of the sports elite athletes and a fan favorite broke his contract and no one knows...
Sport: we need to grow the sport

Also sport: one of the sports elite athletes and a fan favorite broke his contract and no one knows anything about it and we may never know what happened so move on.
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that a party is "breaking" a contract if that contract was in breach to begin with (as indicated by Matthes' comments).
Either way all we have is “indications”.
It’s just a shame that everything is so secretive and in the end it’s the fans that loose.
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DonM
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DonM 11/19/2020 4:49pm
11/19/2020 4:49pm
EngIceDave wrote:
You're asking to come to terms on something that is void. Example; You have a contract to sell a million widgets. You make a million widgets...
You're asking to come to terms on something that is void.


Example; You have a contract to sell a million widgets. You make a million widgets.

Covid comes, crushes the widget industry and your contract is voided

You ask "Why? We have a contract! That isn't fair."

The law and fair isn't always aligned.

An act of God crushed your business, no it's one's fault. One of those things.

That is a very simplistic version, but that is it.
GrapeApe wrote:
Force Majeure clauses do not automatically excuse performance. A party cannot renegotiate contracts and trade agreements just because we're in a pandemic, there must be measurable...
Force Majeure clauses do not automatically excuse performance. A party cannot renegotiate contracts and trade agreements just because we're in a pandemic, there must be measurable damage that justifies voiding an existing agreement. Have the powersports and related industries been "crushed"? You would have a better idea that me, but the answer lies in a grey area that ultimately can only be decided in court. Until a court excuses performance, the existing contract is valid. Lawyers love these cases, big fee generators.
Crush wrote:
I'd have thought that could be cited if the team didn't race at all... ie/and/or their income source, ie racing ceased.... but both series were finished...
I'd have thought that could be cited if the team didn't race at all... ie/and/or their income source, ie racing ceased.... but both series were finished... ?
Not necessarily because of the amount of races but more because they were held at later dates and without fans. The sponsor contracts were reduced because of this and that was caused by the pandemic.
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devotid
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devotid 11/19/2020 6:22pm
11/19/2020 6:22pm
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
4
bigk218
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bigk218 11/19/2020 6:31pm
11/19/2020 6:31pm
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
Moral of the story after 8 pages. Elite level rider wasn’t featured in his teams photo shoot.
Fans want answers.
No one know anything.
It’s very important that everything in our sport is shrouded in secrecy.
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numbers
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numbers 11/19/2020 6:34pm
11/19/2020 6:34pm
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
Basically Herlings would Destroy everyone if he came over. That's about what's alway said 🤣
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RalphS
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RalphS 11/19/2020 11:38pm
11/19/2020 11:38pm
DonM wrote:
Google Force Majeure...Covid has caused a lot of this to happen.
RalphS wrote:
Or Google act of God legal meaning
DonM wrote:
And your point is? Many companies have used force majeure because of Covid...the courts will decide whether or not the clause in the contract covers Covid....all...
And your point is? Many companies have used force majeure because of Covid...the courts will decide whether or not the clause in the contract covers Covid....all depends on the language in the clause...
Just complementing.

Both concepts mean the same and are often interchangeable but are slightly different in the type event, outcome is the same regardless. Contracts can have both or either in the clauses.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 11/20/2020 4:15am
11/20/2020 4:15am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 4:16am
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
For some unknown reason, his contract somehow, for some reason, is not being honored, by one party or the other.
Could be for any number of reasons, but it's fair to think Covid had something to do with it in one way or another.
Covid has jacked up sponsor contracts, team and employee contracts, lease contracts and more, so it is reasonable to believe that some combination of all of that is your cause.

Covid has messed up millions of people and jobs worldwide, what makes anyone think we're immune?
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MXRACER428 11/20/2020 4:58am
11/20/2020 4:58am
I know nothing of the situation, but does anything think the team offered him a lesser salary due to COVID and no fans and BB did not accept/agree to the lower salary?
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OLDMOTO
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OLDMOTO 11/20/2020 9:11am
11/20/2020 9:11am
I think this is the exact situation, but I doubt we will ever know for sure. Unfortunately Baggett has a history of injury and consistency issues in the 450 class. Also the market for riders has changed. The market is flooded. I bet the 19 and 17 are getting a lot less base money and are heavily incentive based.
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captmoto
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captmoto 11/20/2020 9:55am
11/20/2020 9:55am
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that a party is "breaking" a contract if that contract was in breach to begin with (as indicated by Matthes' comments).
There may be exclusions in the contract that gave them an opening to change the contract. While the exclusions may seem extreme they are there for a reason.
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RalphS 11/20/2020 11:02am
11/20/2020 11:02am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 11:02am
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
I'm transferring you with my manager

Karen
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kkawboy14 11/20/2020 11:13am
11/20/2020 11:13am
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/20/2020 11:15am
11/20/2020 11:15am
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that a party is "breaking" a contract if that contract was in breach to begin with (as indicated by Matthes' comments).
captmoto wrote:
There may be exclusions in the contract that gave them an opening to change the contract. While the exclusions may seem extreme they are there for...
There may be exclusions in the contract that gave them an opening to change the contract. While the exclusions may seem extreme they are there for a reason.
Contracts are for the divorce, not the marriage!
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early
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early 11/20/2020 11:28am
11/20/2020 11:28am
kkawboy14 wrote:
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business 2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money” 3) said business says we can file a...
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
If Blake says the team "owe him money" we don't know if that's for the 2020 season or for the amount that was in the contract for 2021. I wouldn't be surprised if 2021 sponsorship deals are down from previous years given the high potential of an adjusted season with limited fan interaction. At that point it might be a choice between going racing with bogle and savatdy and going to court or not going racing at all.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/20/2020 11:30am
11/20/2020 11:30am
kkawboy14 wrote:
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business 2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money” 3) said business says we can file a...
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
early wrote:
If Blake says the team "owe him money" we don't know if that's for the 2020 season or for the amount that was in the contract...
If Blake says the team "owe him money" we don't know if that's for the 2020 season or for the amount that was in the contract for 2021. I wouldn't be surprised if 2021 sponsorship deals are down from previous years given the high potential of an adjusted season with limited fan interaction. At that point it might be a choice between going racing with bogle and savatdy and going to court or not going racing at all.
I was only summarizing what I think I learned in this thread! I have no idea what’s going on
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 11/20/2020 3:50pm
11/20/2020 3:50pm
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t make this stuff up.

The douchebags need to get outed. It’s fairly well known that Fox decided to not pay, who else?
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DonM
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DonM 11/20/2020 7:33pm
11/20/2020 7:33pm
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
kkawboy14 wrote:
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business 2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money” 3) said business says we can file a...
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
PPP money was based on payroll and if everyone was subcontracted then it was based on previous profits....probably wasn’t much there for a race team...
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DonM
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DonM 11/20/2020 7:37pm
11/20/2020 7:37pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t...
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t make this stuff up.

The douchebags need to get outed. It’s fairly well known that Fox decided to not pay, who else?
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs that fall on their product....and if you have a sport with no fans then you are losing value in dollars spent.....
1
rider892
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rider892 11/20/2020 7:44pm
11/20/2020 7:44pm
I’ll say this forest has a reputation for not paying his employees or riders properly
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motomoto652
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motomoto652 11/20/2020 7:47pm
11/20/2020 7:47pm
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
kkawboy14 wrote:
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business 2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money” 3) said business says we can file a...
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
Assuming the riders are outside contractors, based on the rules the riders themselves would have to apply for the PPP loan and not the team. They can get a max of $20k to replace lost wages.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 11/20/2020 7:55pm
11/20/2020 7:55pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t...
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t make this stuff up.

The douchebags need to get outed. It’s fairly well known that Fox decided to not pay, who else?
DonM wrote:
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs...
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs that fall on their product....and if you have a sport with no fans then you are losing value in dollars spent.....
I get that. However, if said companies experienced record level sales/profits, but decided to stiff the teams/riders based on any sort of technicality/loophole, I’d consider that a dick move.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/20/2020 8:20pm
11/20/2020 8:20pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t...
Companies not fulfilling their sponsorship obligations using the excuse of an altered racing schedule while having an epic year in sales/revenue. Classic moto industry, you can’t make this stuff up.

The douchebags need to get outed. It’s fairly well known that Fox decided to not pay, who else?
DonM wrote:
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs...
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs that fall on their product....and if you have a sport with no fans then you are losing value in dollars spent.....
nytsmaC wrote:
I get that. However, if said companies experienced record level sales/profits, but decided to stiff the teams/riders based on any sort of technicality/loophole, I’d consider that...
I get that. However, if said companies experienced record level sales/profits, but decided to stiff the teams/riders based on any sort of technicality/loophole, I’d consider that a dick move.
Wait a second, that doesn’t play into the current narrative!

Grinning
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/20/2020 8:45pm
11/20/2020 8:45pm
devotid wrote:
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened. Can someone give me the...
I asked on page one what is happening.... and now I am on page 8 and still dont know what happened.

Can someone give me the cliff notes?

Thank you.
kkawboy14 wrote:
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business 2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money” 3) said business says we can file a...
1) Covid caused business financial problems for said business

2) Said rider doesn’t care “I want my money”

3) said business says we can file a bankruptcy and pay you nothing, effectively getting a divorce without any compensation or we can work this out like a married couple that would like to stay married and offer you what we can give you!

4) said rider says he would rather do nothing and sue said business for child support.

That’s my understanding from what I have read in this thread.

If these teams didn’t tap into PPP money they are ignorant, if they did tap into PPP money and are stiffing rides, well they will lose the court battle. (PPP money was available for subcontractors.)
DonM wrote:
PPP money was based on payroll and if everyone was subcontracted then it was based on previous profits....probably wasn’t much there for a race team...
They had a subcontractor PPP as well
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/20/2020 8:48pm
11/20/2020 8:48pm
DonM wrote:
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs...
Not every company falls in the same category as Fox...and for most sponsors it is a marketing cost and the value is the number of interactions/eyeballs that fall on their product....and if you have a sport with no fans then you are losing value in dollars spent.....
nytsmaC wrote:
I get that. However, if said companies experienced record level sales/profits, but decided to stiff the teams/riders based on any sort of technicality/loophole, I’d consider that...
I get that. However, if said companies experienced record level sales/profits, but decided to stiff the teams/riders based on any sort of technicality/loophole, I’d consider that a dick move.
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a second, that doesn’t play into the current narrative!

Grinning
It’s a new twist in “As the World Turns” 😂
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PTshox
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PTshox 11/20/2020 9:54pm
11/20/2020 9:54pm
I hope they are not going down a "legal" route and hoping attorney's will solve it as they won't IMO. Best to work it out between themselves.
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