Next Frenchy

-MAVERICK-
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11/8/2020 5:22am
I'm not particularly surprised that a team that competes in supercross thinks its the most prestigious. Seems like at this point it's pretty subjective. Supercross doesn't...
I'm not particularly surprised that a team that competes in supercross thinks its the most prestigious. Seems like at this point it's pretty subjective.

Supercross doesn't attract the best of the GPs as the last top rider to go over was Roczen and it doesn't look like any of the cream is heading there any time soon. And the US riders certainly don't go to mxgp.

As for the money point, does anyone actually know what the top supercross and GP guys get paid for comparison? As a fact, not what you've heard from your mates uncles sisters dog.
Ian is talking on behalf of KTM the company, not Red Bull KTM the team.

If manufacturers are saying that SX is at the top of the sport, that says it all.

People don't have to like it, but it's a fact.

Personally, I prefer MX over SX. I'd rather have an MXGP or AMA National title than a Supercross title. I do enjoy Supercross, but for me it's just there to fill my winter until outdoors start.
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1
agn5009
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11/8/2020 5:44am
agn5009 wrote:
That’s not what I was responding to. He said Antsie came here to do Mx only. No he absolutely did not. If he wanted to do...
That’s not what I was responding to. He said Antsie came here to do Mx only. No he absolutely did not. If he wanted to do MX only he would’ve stayed in the MXGP series.
No problem with your answer, because you were right, Max wanted to compete in SX too. But at the end of the 2019 season, he really...
No problem with your answer, because you were right, Max wanted to compete in SX too.
But at the end of the 2019 season, he really had no other choice than to come to America and sign for a private Suzuki team, because in Europe, he couldnt find anything correct to ride in MXGP category for 2020.
Ride Supercross in US was not his real first choice, I would say...
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere he received offers to stay in the MXGP series. Then he received the offer to ride in the USA while he and his wife were on their honeymoon. He ultimately decided to fly to the USA straight from his honey moon to accept the offer. He had nothing but his vacation clothes with him.
1
WCRider
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11/8/2020 6:33am
AMA and MXGP are both 5 stars series. We need unity for the sport in this dark era.

The next French rider to go to the US is Benistant imo.
6
Cortami79
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11/8/2020 8:05am
Name one euro that came over here for the nationals and not Supercross
Herlings at Ironman. But the competition was not strong enough so he went back to the GP’s
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roninho
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11/8/2020 8:28am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro...
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro rider take a bigger risk at a younger age, and if he doesn’t make it then he just doesn’t have a whole lot of time to go “home” and impress enough for a good 450 ride.

Guys like the Lawrences are going to be away from home either way, but the young Euro rider has to come over and give up the potential support system back home. They could be pretty damn good outdoors, but if they don’t do well at SX their gamble for bigger paydays than in the GPs probably doesn’t pay off.

And to be clear, there is nothing about any rider’s nationality that makes any difference, only their opportunities to race the different types of disciplines. American based riders simply have more opportunities for SX.
Yeah i think this is a fair point and it is a risk for the younger kids.

On the other hand i must say i am a bit suprised there arent more aged out MX2 riders trying to get a fill in ride for the nationals. A guy like Henry Jacobi doesnt have a ride for MXGP for next year (yet?). If i'm him i'm trying to get a fill in ride for the Nationals next year and translate that ride with a bunch of good results into a deal for 2022. I mean he got 5th in MX2 overall in 2019 with a bunch of podiums, i would think he should be able to score top 5's as a fill in.
2
Mavetism
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11/8/2020 9:15am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2020 3:27pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'll let Ian Harrison say it:
I'll let Ian Harrison say it:

I'm not particularly surprised that a team that competes in supercross thinks its the most prestigious. Seems like at this point it's pretty subjective. Supercross doesn't...
I'm not particularly surprised that a team that competes in supercross thinks its the most prestigious. Seems like at this point it's pretty subjective.

Supercross doesn't attract the best of the GPs as the last top rider to go over was Roczen and it doesn't look like any of the cream is heading there any time soon. And the US riders certainly don't go to mxgp.

As for the money point, does anyone actually know what the top supercross and GP guys get paid for comparison? As a fact, not what you've heard from your mates uncles sisters dog.
After Herlings contract extension in 2016 Pit Beirer said in an interview that Herlings was already on the same payment level as Cairoli and Dungey. He said that it was really crazy and he would do anything to keep Herlings, not motogp level, but apparently close to that. Sadly we fans barely get to see any raw numbers.
1
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Park Boys
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11/8/2020 9:34am
Mavetism wrote:
After Herlings contract extension in 2016 Pit Beirer said in an interview that Herlings was already on the same payment level as Cairoli and Dungey. He...
After Herlings contract extension in 2016 Pit Beirer said in an interview that Herlings was already on the same payment level as Cairoli and Dungey. He said that it was really crazy and he would do anything to keep Herlings, not motogp level, but apparently close to that. Sadly we fans barely get to see any raw numbers.
Honda has been reaping the rewards ever since KTM matched. Crazy to think that them “losing” out on Herlings was the best thing to happen to them from a championship perspective.
3
11/8/2020 10:00am
agn5009 wrote:
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere he received offers to stay in the MXGP series. Then he received the offer to ride in the USA while...
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere he received offers to stay in the MXGP series. Then he received the offer to ride in the USA while he and his wife were on their honeymoon. He ultimately decided to fly to the USA straight from his honey moon to accept the offer. He had nothing but his vacation clothes with him.
Anstie didnt have any real good offer to stay in MXGP category for 2020, thats for sure. Dont forget that until then, he was factory rider with Rockstar Husky and kind of semi factory rider with Standing Construct KTM. He couldnt accept a minor offer for 2020, wich was a legitimate position if you ask me...
He prefered to face a new challenge instead.
1
USA
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11/8/2020 10:35am
jemcee wrote:
Depends what you think prestigious means.. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/11/07/457913/s1200_04.jpg[/img] Money, sponsorship popularity not listed.. I'm just being facetious.. Wait am I? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/11/07/457914/s1200_03.jpg[/img] Yes I was.. It all depends...
Depends what you think prestigious means..


Money, sponsorship popularity not listed.. I'm just being facetious.. Wait am I?


Yes I was..

It all depends on where you are in the world I'm 100% sure the majority of those in the US and by the looks France think SX is more prestigious..
But among my friends over here in Aus it's not (I'll assume it's the same in the assorted countries of Europe).. In fact it'd be the third thing I'd like to be able to say I achieved in mx on my death bed..

Sooo yeah pretty subjective haha
The original statement was "supercross is the most prestigious and higher paying"

There's no argument on which series is higher paying, do any supercross riders pay for their rides? Maybe, but not on the level in MXGP.

Prestige I will agree is a little subjective, but im looking at it from the standpoint of the teams. I thought this was pretty clear from my posts. You can go back and read it, I point out where my argument for prestigiousness is. Respect and Admiration, to me, is a direct reflection of how the teams treat their riders.

Teams in Luongo's series right now are not offering GP podium guys and moto winners contracts; and are instead choosing guys that would be lucky to finish in the top 10 in the series once in their career. Thats not a prestigious series, or else teams would be clamoring to get the best riders. That shows me that the teams don't care much about that championship, or the respect and admiration a decent finish brings.
11/8/2020 10:51am
Mavetism wrote:
After Herlings contract extension in 2016 Pit Beirer said in an interview that Herlings was already on the same payment level as Cairoli and Dungey. He...
After Herlings contract extension in 2016 Pit Beirer said in an interview that Herlings was already on the same payment level as Cairoli and Dungey. He said that it was really crazy and he would do anything to keep Herlings, not motogp level, but apparently close to that. Sadly we fans barely get to see any raw numbers.
No wonder he's driving around in Lambos and Range Rovers 😂
APLMAN99
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11/8/2020 11:07am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2020 11:12am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro...
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro rider take a bigger risk at a younger age, and if he doesn’t make it then he just doesn’t have a whole lot of time to go “home” and impress enough for a good 450 ride.

Guys like the Lawrences are going to be away from home either way, but the young Euro rider has to come over and give up the potential support system back home. They could be pretty damn good outdoors, but if they don’t do well at SX their gamble for bigger paydays than in the GPs probably doesn’t pay off.

And to be clear, there is nothing about any rider’s nationality that makes any difference, only their opportunities to race the different types of disciplines. American based riders simply have more opportunities for SX.
roninho wrote:
Yeah i think this is a fair point and it is a risk for the younger kids. On the other hand i must say i am...
Yeah i think this is a fair point and it is a risk for the younger kids.

On the other hand i must say i am a bit suprised there arent more aged out MX2 riders trying to get a fill in ride for the nationals. A guy like Henry Jacobi doesnt have a ride for MXGP for next year (yet?). If i'm him i'm trying to get a fill in ride for the Nationals next year and translate that ride with a bunch of good results into a deal for 2022. I mean he got 5th in MX2 overall in 2019 with a bunch of podiums, i would think he should be able to score top 5's as a fill in.
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured come June or July?

And I hope you aren't serious about him easily getting top 5s as a fill in. He had ONE top 10 overall finish this season, was in the top 15 barely in half of the races (7 of 13). He isn't going to miraculously get into a top 5 spot over here on an unfamiliar bike, etc.
roninho
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11/8/2020 1:00pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be...
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured come June or July?

And I hope you aren't serious about him easily getting top 5s as a fill in. He had ONE top 10 overall finish this season, was in the top 15 barely in half of the races (7 of 13). He isn't going to miraculously get into a top 5 spot over here on an unfamiliar bike, etc.
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019.

And no he doesnt need a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured. He just has to wait and see which 250 riders won't line up for the outdoors season when the sx season is getting close to finished.

1
jemcee
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11/8/2020 2:47pm
USA wrote:
The original statement was "supercross is the most prestigious and higher paying" There's no argument on which series is higher paying, do any supercross riders pay...
The original statement was "supercross is the most prestigious and higher paying"

There's no argument on which series is higher paying, do any supercross riders pay for their rides? Maybe, but not on the level in MXGP.

Prestige I will agree is a little subjective, but im looking at it from the standpoint of the teams. I thought this was pretty clear from my posts. You can go back and read it, I point out where my argument for prestigiousness is. Respect and Admiration, to me, is a direct reflection of how the teams treat their riders.

Teams in Luongo's series right now are not offering GP podium guys and moto winners contracts; and are instead choosing guys that would be lucky to finish in the top 10 in the series once in their career. Thats not a prestigious series, or else teams would be clamoring to get the best riders. That shows me that the teams don't care much about that championship, or the respect and admiration a decent finish brings.
Aaah yep I see the 'highest paying' now I must've missed it (I reckon he snuck it in to make me look silly.. Thanks a lot whoever that was)
Yeah obviously sx pays more and gets more eyes and sponsors and all that.. I appreciate and get your reasons..

But for me growing up (and still at 42 haha) my absolute dream was to compete in the GPs and race in far away countries against dudes that speak different languages haha, so for me it's got that awe and honour about it (I don't wanna think about all that other stuff haha ignorance is bliss)

I do love watching sx though but it doesn't really give me the pucker

I guess it's Rachel, Monica and Phoebe situation haha
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APLMAN99
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11/8/2020 3:39pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be...
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured come June or July?

And I hope you aren't serious about him easily getting top 5s as a fill in. He had ONE top 10 overall finish this season, was in the top 15 barely in half of the races (7 of 13). He isn't going to miraculously get into a top 5 spot over here on an unfamiliar bike, etc.
roninho wrote:
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019. And no he doesnt...
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019.

And no he doesnt need a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured. He just has to wait and see which 250 riders won't line up for the outdoors season when the sx season is getting close to finished.

Look, I’m not trying to bag on Jacobi, he’s obviously capable of riding at a high level and could definitely make the gate at just about any event and finish in the top half of the field.

But the 5th place season finish in 2019 only included 2 overall podium finishes, not a bunch of them. He finished outside the top 5 in most of the races, and without going through race by race it’s likely that the top 5 overall was more a matter of attrition than actually being the 5th fastest rider overall in the series.

I don’t doubt that he could have some good finishes with some good starts at the right tracks, that’s how that series can work. But 3 podiums in 75 GP starts simply isn’t the type of resume that screams that someone could easily hop on a new bike and crank out top 5 finishes.

It he can’t get a 450 ride in Europe, I’d agree that he may want to look at anything that may come up for the US Nationals. But the difficult part of that for a rider like him is that it’d probably only be a temporary, low paying gig. Unless he’s practicing SX like crazy, even if he surprised in the Nationals I’m not sure what competitive team would give him a Nationals only contract. Especially for the 250 class.
APLMAN99
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11/8/2020 3:47pm
USA wrote:
The original statement was "supercross is the most prestigious and higher paying" There's no argument on which series is higher paying, do any supercross riders pay...
The original statement was "supercross is the most prestigious and higher paying"

There's no argument on which series is higher paying, do any supercross riders pay for their rides? Maybe, but not on the level in MXGP.

Prestige I will agree is a little subjective, but im looking at it from the standpoint of the teams. I thought this was pretty clear from my posts. You can go back and read it, I point out where my argument for prestigiousness is. Respect and Admiration, to me, is a direct reflection of how the teams treat their riders.

Teams in Luongo's series right now are not offering GP podium guys and moto winners contracts; and are instead choosing guys that would be lucky to finish in the top 10 in the series once in their career. Thats not a prestigious series, or else teams would be clamoring to get the best riders. That shows me that the teams don't care much about that championship, or the respect and admiration a decent finish brings.
jemcee wrote:
Aaah yep I see the 'highest paying' now I must've missed it (I reckon he snuck it in to make me look silly.. Thanks a lot...
Aaah yep I see the 'highest paying' now I must've missed it (I reckon he snuck it in to make me look silly.. Thanks a lot whoever that was)
Yeah obviously sx pays more and gets more eyes and sponsors and all that.. I appreciate and get your reasons..

But for me growing up (and still at 42 haha) my absolute dream was to compete in the GPs and race in far away countries against dudes that speak different languages haha, so for me it's got that awe and honour about it (I don't wanna think about all that other stuff haha ignorance is bliss)

I do love watching sx though but it doesn't really give me the pucker

I guess it's Rachel, Monica and Phoebe situation haha
I remember when the GP series was clearly the premier series, it wasn’t even a subjective idea.

I truly think that the only way to get more people to agree on what is the “premier” series now would be to hybridize the GPs.

Run 8-10 “outdoor” style races, and 8-10 “SX” style races in the same series, and mix them in so there’s no more than 3 of any discipline in a row. Improve on the way that NASCAR throws in a few road courses, and get the best riders from every country in the series.

At that point, the US series (both MX and SX) would become more of a high level feeder series, but overall it could really grow the overall MX/SX worldwide exposure.

Problem solved.
2
jemcee
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11/8/2020 4:50pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I remember when the GP series was clearly the premier series, it wasn’t even a subjective idea. I truly think that the only way to get...
I remember when the GP series was clearly the premier series, it wasn’t even a subjective idea.

I truly think that the only way to get more people to agree on what is the “premier” series now would be to hybridize the GPs.

Run 8-10 “outdoor” style races, and 8-10 “SX” style races in the same series, and mix them in so there’s no more than 3 of any discipline in a row. Improve on the way that NASCAR throws in a few road courses, and get the best riders from every country in the series.

At that point, the US series (both MX and SX) would become more of a high level feeder series, but overall it could really grow the overall MX/SX worldwide exposure.

Problem solved.
Problem solved indeed.. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get all the promoters to agree to that haha

It would be fucken excellent though
2
APLMAN99
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11/8/2020 4:58pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I remember when the GP series was clearly the premier series, it wasn’t even a subjective idea. I truly think that the only way to get...
I remember when the GP series was clearly the premier series, it wasn’t even a subjective idea.

I truly think that the only way to get more people to agree on what is the “premier” series now would be to hybridize the GPs.

Run 8-10 “outdoor” style races, and 8-10 “SX” style races in the same series, and mix them in so there’s no more than 3 of any discipline in a row. Improve on the way that NASCAR throws in a few road courses, and get the best riders from every country in the series.

At that point, the US series (both MX and SX) would become more of a high level feeder series, but overall it could really grow the overall MX/SX worldwide exposure.

Problem solved.
jemcee wrote:
Problem solved indeed.. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get all the promoters to agree to that haha

It would be fucken excellent though
Yeah, there may need to be a few tough issues to work out....!

😎

I’d love to see something like that, though. I have no problem with the top American riders leaving the “National” series (and the stupid FIM/SX series is still effectively a National series) and doing a World Championship if it is clearly head and shoulders above our series. But that would probably need to include both disciplines that the “original” sport has evolved into.

It’d probably be closer to the GPs of the 70s and early 80s where it seemed like there was always specialists who ran up front depending on the type of terrain that the race was held on that weekend.
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1
roninho
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11/9/2020 12:29am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be...
How would Jacobi go about getting a fill-in ride for next year right now? Does he have a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured come June or July?

And I hope you aren't serious about him easily getting top 5s as a fill in. He had ONE top 10 overall finish this season, was in the top 15 barely in half of the races (7 of 13). He isn't going to miraculously get into a top 5 spot over here on an unfamiliar bike, etc.
roninho wrote:
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019. And no he doesnt...
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019.

And no he doesnt need a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured. He just has to wait and see which 250 riders won't line up for the outdoors season when the sx season is getting close to finished.

APLMAN99 wrote:
Look, I’m not trying to bag on Jacobi, he’s obviously capable of riding at a high level and could definitely make the gate at just about...
Look, I’m not trying to bag on Jacobi, he’s obviously capable of riding at a high level and could definitely make the gate at just about any event and finish in the top half of the field.

But the 5th place season finish in 2019 only included 2 overall podium finishes, not a bunch of them. He finished outside the top 5 in most of the races, and without going through race by race it’s likely that the top 5 overall was more a matter of attrition than actually being the 5th fastest rider overall in the series.

I don’t doubt that he could have some good finishes with some good starts at the right tracks, that’s how that series can work. But 3 podiums in 75 GP starts simply isn’t the type of resume that screams that someone could easily hop on a new bike and crank out top 5 finishes.

It he can’t get a 450 ride in Europe, I’d agree that he may want to look at anything that may come up for the US Nationals. But the difficult part of that for a rider like him is that it’d probably only be a temporary, low paying gig. Unless he’s practicing SX like crazy, even if he surprised in the Nationals I’m not sure what competitive team would give him a Nationals only contract. Especially for the 250 class.
If you think Jacobi's top p5 overall was a matter of attrition then you for sure didnt watch that season.
He had 9 top 3 moto finishes out of the 32 he raced. Before he got injured he was in contention for 3rd overall in the championship.

Anyway, i don't think US teams are knocking on his door as the next great thing, i'm just saying i am surprised that guys like Jacobi who have proven to be a top 5 rider in MX2, but who have aged out MX2 and don't get a ride or lose a ride in MXGP don't try to get a career in the 250 class. Both SX and MX, but getting an entry via a fill in ride in the outdoors.

Get a fill in ride (outdoors) or even go the privateer route if you have some sponsors, actually perform (quite important without the sx experience) & get noticed and translate that in a ride in SX.

It is probably quite hard, but i would think it would be better then not having a ride in GP's.
1
RalphS
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11/9/2020 1:44am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro...
I think that the age rule is a big deal for younger Euro guys coming over, definitely more than people think. It makes the young Euro rider take a bigger risk at a younger age, and if he doesn’t make it then he just doesn’t have a whole lot of time to go “home” and impress enough for a good 450 ride.

Guys like the Lawrences are going to be away from home either way, but the young Euro rider has to come over and give up the potential support system back home. They could be pretty damn good outdoors, but if they don’t do well at SX their gamble for bigger paydays than in the GPs probably doesn’t pay off.

And to be clear, there is nothing about any rider’s nationality that makes any difference, only their opportunities to race the different types of disciplines. American based riders simply have more opportunities for SX.
roninho wrote:
Yeah i think this is a fair point and it is a risk for the younger kids. On the other hand i must say i am...
Yeah i think this is a fair point and it is a risk for the younger kids.

On the other hand i must say i am a bit suprised there arent more aged out MX2 riders trying to get a fill in ride for the nationals. A guy like Henry Jacobi doesnt have a ride for MXGP for next year (yet?). If i'm him i'm trying to get a fill in ride for the Nationals next year and translate that ride with a bunch of good results into a deal for 2022. I mean he got 5th in MX2 overall in 2019 with a bunch of podiums, i would think he should be able to score top 5's as a fill in.
I agree with you. Whilst there are fewer to none Europeans coming over at a very young age and they've seen how MM, Moreau and KR panned out, they also saw how DF worked out so I'd expect more skilled aged-out MX2 riders with not-so-good chances in MXGP to try out in the US.

This however will depend in teams willing to gamble on them, but in the last 3 seasons about 10 top 250 guys have graduated/forced up so now or the next couple of years seem/are a bit dry in 250 talent, good timing for someone Ferrandis-esque.
11/9/2020 5:50am
Since this kinda became a GP vs AMA thread and is a bit on the subject, I recommend going over to Deegan’s youtube channel and watch the video titled 10 year plan or something like that uploaded during the weekend. Brian has some really good observations there.
2
11/9/2020 6:34am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 6:34am
Well don't see another Frenchy like Ferrandis coming through at the moment, remember Ferrandis was head to head with herlings so he was always going to do well.

I hate the ama vs gp shit fight my dream of a perfect Motocross series is to scrap the AMA turn GP's to a proper world series just like motogp and formula 1.

Add 6 or so American tracks to calender and finish in America, then have supercross ran strictly in America since the euros will be In America they can choose to race supercross.
1
scootch
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11/9/2020 6:55am
Seems like all the talented up and coming french dudes are racing downhill right now Huh
Park Boys
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11/9/2020 7:24am
RalphS wrote:
I agree with you. Whilst there are fewer to none Europeans coming over at a very young age and they've seen how MM, Moreau and KR...
I agree with you. Whilst there are fewer to none Europeans coming over at a very young age and they've seen how MM, Moreau and KR panned out, they also saw how DF worked out so I'd expect more skilled aged-out MX2 riders with not-so-good chances in MXGP to try out in the US.

This however will depend in teams willing to gamble on them, but in the last 3 seasons about 10 top 250 guys have graduated/forced up so now or the next couple of years seem/are a bit dry in 250 talent, good timing for someone Ferrandis-esque.
What do you mean with how MM, Moreau and KR panned out?
2
gt80rider
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11/9/2020 7:50am
Sucks to say it, but America isn't what it used to be. Between our lack of success on the world stage, and Moreau's injury it might...
Sucks to say it, but America isn't what it used to be. Between our lack of success on the world stage, and Moreau's injury it might be a while.
We are still "leading" far and away.. but our guys aren't a one trick pony, ours race two disciplines mx as well as sx... SX is incredibly dangerous, even for the most skilled.... i certainly don't blame the euro guys for keeping it a bit safer and only racing mx......
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11/9/2020 8:00am
Well don't see another Frenchy like Ferrandis coming through at the moment, remember Ferrandis was head to head with herlings so he was always going to...
Well don't see another Frenchy like Ferrandis coming through at the moment, remember Ferrandis was head to head with herlings so he was always going to do well.

I hate the ama vs gp shit fight my dream of a perfect Motocross series is to scrap the AMA turn GP's to a proper world series just like motogp and formula 1.

Add 6 or so American tracks to calender and finish in America, then have supercross ran strictly in America since the euros will be In America they can choose to race supercross.
He was not head to head with Herlings
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RalphS
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11/9/2020 8:19am
RalphS wrote:
I agree with you. Whilst there are fewer to none Europeans coming over at a very young age and they've seen how MM, Moreau and KR...
I agree with you. Whilst there are fewer to none Europeans coming over at a very young age and they've seen how MM, Moreau and KR panned out, they also saw how DF worked out so I'd expect more skilled aged-out MX2 riders with not-so-good chances in MXGP to try out in the US.

This however will depend in teams willing to gamble on them, but in the last 3 seasons about 10 top 250 guys have graduated/forced up so now or the next couple of years seem/are a bit dry in 250 talent, good timing for someone Ferrandis-esque.
Park Boys wrote:
What do you mean with how MM, Moreau and KR panned out?
KR & MM had Herlings-level of speed back at their MX2 days, they were 1 and 2-times champions by they time some others their age dreamed about a factory ride and they were Prado-alike prodigies but neither crushed SX as expected, don't take me wrong they're great and money won't be a concern for them ever (if they're smart) but what I mean is if these 2 one-in-a-generation didn't make it as expected what would decent/OK/good MX2 riders (even champions as Jonass/Vialle) think. For Moreau, all I meant is how fucking shitty luck can be.

Again it worked for DF on 250, he has no MX2 championship and had he stayed in Europe he would be making far less money, even worst he could be another Pauline/Desalle casualty or riding for peanuts.
Question
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11/9/2020 8:57am

I am not too worried ; as there are about 10 properly paid rides in 450 in mxgp, whereas the class is deeeep (any top 10 rider can win a moto at the mxdn and in my mind in the nationals), there is still a high probability that some top 250 riders need a few more years to fully develop like Osborne or Ferrandis did, and also have a longer career.
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Park Boys
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11/9/2020 9:11am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 4:18pm
RalphS wrote:
KR & MM had Herlings-level of speed back at their MX2 days, they were 1 and 2-times champions by they time some others their age dreamed...
KR & MM had Herlings-level of speed back at their MX2 days, they were 1 and 2-times champions by they time some others their age dreamed about a factory ride and they were Prado-alike prodigies but neither crushed SX as expected, don't take me wrong they're great and money won't be a concern for them ever (if they're smart) but what I mean is if these 2 one-in-a-generation didn't make it as expected what would decent/OK/good MX2 riders (even champions as Jonass/Vialle) think. For Moreau, all I meant is how fucking shitty luck can be.

Again it worked for DF on 250, he has no MX2 championship and had he stayed in Europe he would be making far less money, even worst he could be another Pauline/Desalle casualty or riding for peanuts.
I disagree with a lot of this, but to each there own. For Roczen sure no matter were he raced barring injuries the writing was on the wall he was gonna win. I think Musquin got about the most out of his career. He wasn’t a Herlings level prodigy and certainly not a Roczen one so I don’t think he’s doing too bad. I would bet his bank account is happier he went state side and GP titles would have been no guarantee for him like most of us assume they would have been for Ken. So for Marvin I think going stateside was a great thing. Ken got hurt, it happens but was on his way to Supercross titles.

What do you mean another Paulin/DeSalle casualty? They had very long successful careers. Over a decade on factory teams. Outside of titles It doesn't get much better than that.
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APLMAN99
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11/9/2020 11:24am
roninho wrote:
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019. And no he doesnt...
i am talking about a 250 fill in ride, not a 450. He was 5th in the world championship mx2 in 2019.

And no he doesnt need a crystal ball to know which riders will be injured. He just has to wait and see which 250 riders won't line up for the outdoors season when the sx season is getting close to finished.

APLMAN99 wrote:
Look, I’m not trying to bag on Jacobi, he’s obviously capable of riding at a high level and could definitely make the gate at just about...
Look, I’m not trying to bag on Jacobi, he’s obviously capable of riding at a high level and could definitely make the gate at just about any event and finish in the top half of the field.

But the 5th place season finish in 2019 only included 2 overall podium finishes, not a bunch of them. He finished outside the top 5 in most of the races, and without going through race by race it’s likely that the top 5 overall was more a matter of attrition than actually being the 5th fastest rider overall in the series.

I don’t doubt that he could have some good finishes with some good starts at the right tracks, that’s how that series can work. But 3 podiums in 75 GP starts simply isn’t the type of resume that screams that someone could easily hop on a new bike and crank out top 5 finishes.

It he can’t get a 450 ride in Europe, I’d agree that he may want to look at anything that may come up for the US Nationals. But the difficult part of that for a rider like him is that it’d probably only be a temporary, low paying gig. Unless he’s practicing SX like crazy, even if he surprised in the Nationals I’m not sure what competitive team would give him a Nationals only contract. Especially for the 250 class.
roninho wrote:
If you think Jacobi's top p5 overall was a matter of attrition then you for sure didnt watch that season. He had 9 top 3 moto...
If you think Jacobi's top p5 overall was a matter of attrition then you for sure didnt watch that season.
He had 9 top 3 moto finishes out of the 32 he raced. Before he got injured he was in contention for 3rd overall in the championship.

Anyway, i don't think US teams are knocking on his door as the next great thing, i'm just saying i am surprised that guys like Jacobi who have proven to be a top 5 rider in MX2, but who have aged out MX2 and don't get a ride or lose a ride in MXGP don't try to get a career in the 250 class. Both SX and MX, but getting an entry via a fill in ride in the outdoors.

Get a fill in ride (outdoors) or even go the privateer route if you have some sponsors, actually perform (quite important without the sx experience) & get noticed and translate that in a ride in SX.

It is probably quite hard, but i would think it would be better then not having a ride in GP's.
Yeah, I was speaking about overall podiums, as that's how they are usually listed. But 9 is a good number, I suppose. It's half of the number that Thomas Covington scored in the class in 2018 while also finishing in 5th overall for the season. I can see the point about how that makes it seem pretty easy to be a top 5 guy in the Nationals with that sort of record........!

Okay, in all fairness Covington DID have 8 extra motos in order to get his 18 moto podiums, but he podiumed in 45% of his motos versus 28.1% for Jacobi. And it's no secret how that turned out.

Now don't get me wrong, if Jacobi is not offered a ride in the GPs, doesn't get a fill-in ride for the GPs, and somehow gets a fill-in ride for the Nationals he should definitely think about taking it. But it'd be pretty silly at this point to make that 'Plan A' unless he has been racing a LOT of SX races in Europe, Australia, etc. In fact, if he is able to travel to the US at this time with all the pandemic issues and stuff, it might be a wise choice to find someone to come over and train at SX with if that is even a thought of his. If he can do it on the cheap, and find a good team to ride with for training, he just might be able to figure out if he could get SX down in a season or two.

I DO think that an overseas rider can potentially get a decent ride if they can reasonably battle for a top 5 in 250SX and compete for podiums outdoors, but it'd be an uphill battle the more that time goes on and they don't get the true SX experience.
str8line
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11/9/2020 3:20pm
A lot of interesting perspectives in this thread. I really hope some more top international riders come over. Having Kenny, Marvin, Dylan, now the Lawrence's, etc. here makes the racing more interesting and broadens the appeal. I also wish we had more Americans over in MXGP. Sucks that RV2 never got to get into his groove and got injured when he tried. Also too bad that Covington didn't reach his potential. I also think having Decoster over here as a manager has been great for the sport overall. Would be amazing if Dungey went MXGP next year, or was he only interested in SX? Or since there's a lot of good riders in the U.S. looking for rides(especially in the coronavirus financial situation) could they possibly head overseas? Guys like Derek Drake, Ty Masterpool, Mumford, Shimoda. What about Savatgy? I would think that MXGP would like to have a competitive American in their series again.
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