Salary Caps

kb228 wrote:

They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.

BroFoSho wrote:

[img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/214BJZEhpHL._AC_UY218_.jpg[/img]

kb228 wrote:

Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...

Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.

Brent wrote:

Sorry, I must have missed a memo. Who exactly is “We”? Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white...

Sorry, I must have missed a memo.

Who exactly is “We”?

Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white men.

When did it turn into a policy making think tank?

Brent wrote:

Sorry, I must have missed a memo. Who exactly is “We”? Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white...

Sorry, I must have missed a memo.

Who exactly is “We”?

Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white men.

When did it turn into a policy making think tank?

SPYGUY wrote:

As VitalMX goes, so goes the industry.

gkerrofficial wrote:

Let's face it. The time is now. We need to figure out a way to get 3+ guys on every 450 team. Also, bring back Marlboro...

Let's face it. The time is now.

We need to figure out a way to get 3+ guys on every 450 team.

Also, bring back Marlboro, Bud Light and anything else to get the dollars flowing.

Brent wrote:

Sorry, I must have missed a memo. Who exactly is “We”? Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white...

Sorry, I must have missed a memo.

Who exactly is “We”?

Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white men.

When did it turn into a policy making think tank?

Dirty Points wrote:

And even in the motorcycle category, North America is a very small part of that, and MX bikes a fractional slice of the North American motorcycle...

And even in the motorcycle category, North America is a very small part of that, and MX bikes a fractional slice of the North American motorcycle market.
.
Let's take a look at Yamaha's annual report (because they have pictures):



That little tiny slice above Japan is total units of all North American Yamaha motorcycles: dirt, street, scooter. You could DOUBLE your unit sales across all categories, and it still would be equal to a 1-2% unit change in their Asian small-bore market. What do you suspect management promotional dollar focus is on?

Brent wrote:

That chart is very eye opening. Of course in Asia motorcycles are a primary transportation method, whereas here it is almost purely recreational. Either way, the...

That chart is very eye opening.

Of course in Asia motorcycles are a primary transportation method, whereas here it is almost purely recreational.

Either way, the United States and Europe are small potatoes for them.

TeamGreen wrote:

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick! Anyone got JS7s phone #...

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick!

Anyone got JS7s phone #? I'll put him on the 3rd Honda. Why, because I can. Red Bull helmet, Se7en...all of it.
Let's get 3 guys on JGR Suzuki: Joey, Freddie and I'm bringing "The 18" back...Weston or Davi...your choice.
3 guys on GasGas? Ok. Bloss...and A-Mart...let's move him up. Barcia is already there.
3 guys at KTM? Sure. Let's put Chad on that 3rd bike! Why? Because I can!
Husky? They already got 3!!! Jason, ZachO & DeanO. So, yup...they've "got this".
Yamaha? Take Masterpool or one of the other "unemployed" 250 Star guys.
Kawasaki? Mookie. Period.

If you want RD5 back? Start another team and let him ride for it AND pick the other riders. Why? It would be good for the sport.

TeamGreen wrote:

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick! Anyone got JS7s phone #...

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick!

Anyone got JS7s phone #? I'll put him on the 3rd Honda. Why, because I can. Red Bull helmet, Se7en...all of it.
Let's get 3 guys on JGR Suzuki: Joey, Freddie and I'm bringing "The 18" back...Weston or Davi...your choice.
3 guys on GasGas? Ok. Bloss...and A-Mart...let's move him up. Barcia is already there.
3 guys at KTM? Sure. Let's put Chad on that 3rd bike! Why? Because I can!
Husky? They already got 3!!! Jason, ZachO & DeanO. So, yup...they've "got this".
Yamaha? Take Masterpool or one of the other "unemployed" 250 Star guys.
Kawasaki? Mookie. Period.

If you want RD5 back? Start another team and let him ride for it AND pick the other riders. Why? It would be good for the sport.

Brent wrote:

...don't forget about a team for the "People's Champions" while you are at it. Jason Lawrence Nico Izzi Austin Stroupe Josh Hansen as manager. That team...

...don't forget about a team for the "People's Champions" while you are at it.

Jason Lawrence

Nico Izzi

Austin Stroupe

Josh Hansen as manager.

That team is a beer, cigs, and tattoo companies dream right there...

TeamGreen wrote:

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick! Anyone got JS7s phone #...

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick!

Anyone got JS7s phone #? I'll put him on the 3rd Honda. Why, because I can. Red Bull helmet, Se7en...all of it.
Let's get 3 guys on JGR Suzuki: Joey, Freddie and I'm bringing "The 18" back...Weston or Davi...your choice.
3 guys on GasGas? Ok. Bloss...and A-Mart...let's move him up. Barcia is already there.
3 guys at KTM? Sure. Let's put Chad on that 3rd bike! Why? Because I can!
Husky? They already got 3!!! Jason, ZachO & DeanO. So, yup...they've "got this".
Yamaha? Take Masterpool or one of the other "unemployed" 250 Star guys.
Kawasaki? Mookie. Period.

If you want RD5 back? Start another team and let him ride for it AND pick the other riders. Why? It would be good for the sport.

TeamGreen wrote:

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick! Anyone got JS7s phone #...

Look...I;m goona sign up on the team that wants a 3rd rider on all teans...as long as I get ot pick!

Anyone got JS7s phone #? I'll put him on the 3rd Honda. Why, because I can. Red Bull helmet, Se7en...all of it.
Let's get 3 guys on JGR Suzuki: Joey, Freddie and I'm bringing "The 18" back...Weston or Davi...your choice.
3 guys on GasGas? Ok. Bloss...and A-Mart...let's move him up. Barcia is already there.
3 guys at KTM? Sure. Let's put Chad on that 3rd bike! Why? Because I can!
Husky? They already got 3!!! Jason, ZachO & DeanO. So, yup...they've "got this".
Yamaha? Take Masterpool or one of the other "unemployed" 250 Star guys.
Kawasaki? Mookie. Period.

If you want RD5 back? Start another team and let him ride for it AND pick the other riders. Why? It would be good for the sport.

early wrote:

If you are referring to my post, it's not about just adding a 3rd 450 rider, it's about making 250sx a national series, not losing industry...

If you are referring to my post, it's not about just adding a 3rd 450 rider, it's about making 250sx a national series, not losing industry jobs in the process(as much as possible in this crazy world), creating more opportunities in the 450 class, and improving competition in the 250 class. This all adds up to better racing and hopefully more eyeballs on the sport.

early wrote:

The western markets may be small, but these are the places where the companies get to have fun. They play around in high performance on and...

The western markets may be small, but these are the places where the companies get to have fun. They play around in high performance on and off road motorcycles with small sales volumes because it's the reward for selling millions of boring scooters, small engines, generators, etc.

JBrockman856 wrote:

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no...

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no getting around that. To create more opportunities in the 450 class you need more capital; wheres that coming from? How many more eyeballs on our sport are needed to make a realistic difference? Unfortunately way more than we'll ever get. We don't live in Moto Narnia.
(Spelling edit)

Dirty Points wrote:

Exaclty. Racing is a bit of a vanity project/corporate flex for them when you look at their core business. As such, budgets will be fickle and...

Exaclty. Racing is a bit of a vanity project/corporate flex for them when you look at their core business. As such, budgets will be fickle and subject to management whims.

JBrockman856 wrote:

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no...

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no getting around that. To create more opportunities in the 450 class you need more capital; wheres that coming from? How many more eyeballs on our sport are needed to make a realistic difference? Unfortunately way more than we'll ever get. We don't live in Moto Narnia.
(Spelling edit)

early wrote:

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and...

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and scaring off sponsors. There's only room for about 40 guys to make real money in US moto, that's just the way it is, might as well put 20 and 20 on the track at one time every time.

BroFoSho wrote:

[img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/214BJZEhpHL._AC_UY218_.jpg[/img]

kb228 wrote:

Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...

Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.

tuttle425 wrote:

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money...

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money because the Accord is selling well. Monster Energy Kawasaki isnt going to get more money because Kawasaki shipped a few more rail cars. And I am pretty sure those numbers are in yen, not dollars.

JBrockman856 wrote:

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no...

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no getting around that. To create more opportunities in the 450 class you need more capital; wheres that coming from? How many more eyeballs on our sport are needed to make a realistic difference? Unfortunately way more than we'll ever get. We don't live in Moto Narnia.
(Spelling edit)

early wrote:

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and...

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and scaring off sponsors. There's only room for about 40 guys to make real money in US moto, that's just the way it is, might as well put 20 and 20 on the track at one time every time.

JBrockman856 wrote:

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no...

To have a 250 national SX series you're going to lose almost all of the smaller teams and lose industry jobs in the process, theres no getting around that. To create more opportunities in the 450 class you need more capital; wheres that coming from? How many more eyeballs on our sport are needed to make a realistic difference? Unfortunately way more than we'll ever get. We don't live in Moto Narnia.
(Spelling edit)

early wrote:

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and...

Sorry but nobody gives a shit who places outside the top 10 in a 250 east or west SX. These small teams are losing money and scaring off sponsors. There's only room for about 40 guys to make real money in US moto, that's just the way it is, might as well put 20 and 20 on the track at one time every time.

TeamGreen wrote:

You don't want Privateers and B Teams in 250 SX?

kb228 wrote:

Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...

Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.

tuttle425 wrote:

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money...

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money because the Accord is selling well. Monster Energy Kawasaki isnt going to get more money because Kawasaki shipped a few more rail cars. And I am pretty sure those numbers are in yen, not dollars.

kb228 wrote:

Theyre in USD. Those numbers are NET numbers. Meaning after R&D, after payroll, after the electric bill is paid.

Sr_Vet_Rider wrote:

You got no idea what it takes to run a race team

kb228 wrote:

Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...

Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.

tuttle425 wrote:

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money...

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money because the Accord is selling well. Monster Energy Kawasaki isnt going to get more money because Kawasaki shipped a few more rail cars. And I am pretty sure those numbers are in yen, not dollars.

kb228 wrote:

Theyre in USD. Those numbers are NET numbers. Meaning after R&D, after payroll, after the electric bill is paid.

tuttle425 wrote:

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money...

None of those numbers matter. Those numbers are for the entire company which includes 100s of subsidiaries and divisions. HRC isnt going to get more money because the Accord is selling well. Monster Energy Kawasaki isnt going to get more money because Kawasaki shipped a few more rail cars. And I am pretty sure those numbers are in yen, not dollars.

kb228 wrote:

Theyre in USD. Those numbers are NET numbers. Meaning after R&D, after payroll, after the electric bill is paid.

tuttle425 wrote:

Net what? Income? If so, there is no way Honda made $455 billion in net income. In 2018 their net income was only $9.5 billion.

early wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 250sx should be a national series. Factory's should support 3 450 riders, and 3 250 riders instead...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 250sx should be a national series. Factory's should support 3 450 riders, and 3 250 riders instead of 2 450 and 4 250. This amounts to the same number of rider jobs, better opportunity when moving up, more backup in both classes when injuries strike, and better competition (more meaningful championships) in the 250 class.

quadzrulebro wrote:

Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove...

Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove that their bike can win at the highest level. Look at where KTM was before the RD (Dungey, Decoster) team came on board. By winning races, the RD team and KTM almost instantly displaced Suzuki in the big 4. If it wasn’t for injuries, factory teams would only be paying for a single rider (the one they think can bring home a championship and help sell bikes). Everyone loves the charisma of the JGR team, but their inability to win is part of the reason Suzuki isn’t in the big 4 any longer.
Mel Harris, former head honcho at Suzuki is now the VP at SSR. If SSR was capable of producing a bike that could win races, you better believe they would be throwing huge dollars at a top rider so he could prove the capability of SSR in Supercross. Hiring a guy who rides around in 10th would be worth nothing to them. That is why the top dogs demand such a huge piece of the pie.

4DAIVIPAI2K5 wrote:

Didn't RCH and Suzuki close up after just winning a title with Kenny? Suzuki has more big bike championship in the past like 20 years then...

Didn't RCH and Suzuki close up after just winning a title with Kenny?

Suzuki has more big bike championship in the past like 20 years then Honda and Yamaha combined.

TXDirt wrote:

I disagree 100% with this. 1. Top teams are fielding 3-4 250cc guys because they have two possible titles they can win. There is no way...

I disagree 100% with this.

1. Top teams are fielding 3-4 250cc guys because they have two possible titles they can win. There is no way a guy like Mitch will ever field more then 2-3 guys if he is only going after one title. You will instantly see teams literally cut in half. So what you are proposing would absolutely gut the 250 class.

And there is just no way it makes sense for the top teams to employ more then two 450 riders. I’m just looking at SX because that’s what you mention. You can only have so many riders on the gate and employ so many people. I like to see three 450 riders per team but does that really make much sense from a business/cost perspective. I don’t think it really does. And most teams seem to agree. Nothing is stopping them from hiring a third rider now.

But back to 250s. If you were to go to a single series watch the 250 teams get completely gutted. They are not going to invest the same amount of money and resources when the title opportunities are cut in half.

TXDirt wrote:

I disagree 100% with this. 1. Top teams are fielding 3-4 250cc guys because they have two possible titles they can win. There is no way...

I disagree 100% with this.

1. Top teams are fielding 3-4 250cc guys because they have two possible titles they can win. There is no way a guy like Mitch will ever field more then 2-3 guys if he is only going after one title. You will instantly see teams literally cut in half. So what you are proposing would absolutely gut the 250 class.

And there is just no way it makes sense for the top teams to employ more then two 450 riders. I’m just looking at SX because that’s what you mention. You can only have so many riders on the gate and employ so many people. I like to see three 450 riders per team but does that really make much sense from a business/cost perspective. I don’t think it really does. And most teams seem to agree. Nothing is stopping them from hiring a third rider now.

But back to 250s. If you were to go to a single series watch the 250 teams get completely gutted. They are not going to invest the same amount of money and resources when the title opportunities are cut in half.

early wrote:

They don't bench half the guys for the outdoors racing for 1 title.