Works Ohlins Yamaha YZ360 doesn't meet minimum friend requirement for Farleigh

9/26/2020 1:09am
I needed a laptop to tune it with. I could have spent 400 on a new Korean or Chinese Chromebook, but I decided to spend less, and get a ruggedized, somewhat period correct factory refurb Panasonic. The tuning program prob won't work well on a mobile/tablet OS anyway. This will do much better at the track than an "asus"

Felt weird to buy a computer for a bike.


6
15tc150
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9/26/2020 4:58am
No, I tested the G2 throttle on the KTM for G2. They had some different combos with different custom cables which are now shelf items. I.e...
No, I tested the G2 throttle on the KTM for G2. They had some different combos with different custom cables which are now shelf items. I.e. new style throttle with older PWK carb. Old style domino on Mikuni so you can use the quicker cam, ECT ECT. I ended up with a Varner modded 39mm Suzuki carb, with deleted PJ and TPS and he built the motor too.

The trick, guys, is to stuff cash in the cylinder and put 100 more in there than he quotes you. You'll get it back real quick.

The YZM500 is cool. I wonder if he is able to calculate the inertia of that rotating assembly then apply it to a chassis simulation. I'll assume this is for the newest YZ chassis.
My apologies, I thought you tested the new gen ktm’s for ktm, my misread, but the g2 cam system is rad, run them on every bike I own, sans my 450, but she gone!

And here’s the funny thing, with the right diameter engine mounting holes that the swingarm bolt goes through, technically speaking, you could throw that yzm500 engine into a 99+ frame, and if Yamaha did what I think they have done, that means it could possibly be thrown right into this exact bike your building into a 360. IF they didn’t change anything between the 98-99 mounting points, which I doubt they did. cant say for sure, but I have a suspicion that Yamaha didn’t change anything between the 98 and 99 engine mounting points, if someone is able to take 2015 plastics and subframe, and bolt it to a 96 yz, I think it’s a pretty good chance of it. Can’t say anything about rotating mass but it seems plausible that it’s taken into account with the level brc is at
9/26/2020 8:33am
Yes, the mounts are diff between 98-99. The swing arm diameter is different too. 99 goes to current. That's where the change is. 88-98 are the same mount points.
1
omalley
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9/26/2020 3:06pm
Ratio is a fun one. "What's your manual say?". "60:1, but that's way too lean, my daddy always ran 32:1 so that's what I run." "The...
Ratio is a fun one.

"What's your manual say?".

"60:1, but that's way too lean, my daddy always ran 32:1 so that's what I run."

"The oil filler cap on your truck says 5W20 on it, why don't you put 20W50 in it?"

"Well, because it ain't spec'd for 20W50! Shits too thick!"

*Waits 5 seconds to see if dots connect....they don't.... puts on sunglasses*

"Hey...let.me guess, you're also chasing jetting, probably on a Mikuni TMX"

"How'd you know! I can't get that thing to jet right!!!"

*Waits another 5 seconds to see if dots connect this time.....they don't....cracks beer*







Slosh 112 wrote:
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...

First thing I ask "what ratio you running?"

"what has that got to do with anything?"

*rolls eyes walks away*
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood. "TMX is too hard to jet." ....so if you...
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood.

"TMX is too hard to jet."

....so if you can't jet a carb, it's the carbs fault?

Probably don't even realize the TMX features an additional fuel circuit in the form of a nozzle, which the main screws into. Total hacks. Just put a 30 yr old twist top Keihin on it, they made those for dumb people.

A lot of the CR issue also has to do with the absolutely horrid and inconsistent squish and CC on those stock. Fix the head and suddenly it isn’t the TMX’s fault.

The Shop

9/26/2020 3:29pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...

First thing I ask "what ratio you running?"

"what has that got to do with anything?"

*rolls eyes walks away*
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood. "TMX is too hard to jet." ....so if you...
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood.

"TMX is too hard to jet."

....so if you can't jet a carb, it's the carbs fault?

Probably don't even realize the TMX features an additional fuel circuit in the form of a nozzle, which the main screws into. Total hacks. Just put a 30 yr old twist top Keihin on it, they made those for dumb people.

omalley wrote:
A lot of the CR issue also has to do with the absolutely horrid and inconsistent squish and CC on those stock. Fix the head and...
A lot of the CR issue also has to do with the absolutely horrid and inconsistent squish and CC on those stock. Fix the head and suddenly it isn’t the TMX’s fault.
The best and worst twostrokes I've ever ridden were both RC Valve Hondas. One was stock, one was the full on Watts Perfections 02 RC package. Thing revved to the moon and beyond, made power the whole time, and really didn't have a wallop anywhere, a little soft off idle but then it just took off like a road racing motor. I feel like it turned 2500 RPMs higher than my 06 RM250
2
15tc150
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9/28/2020 2:16pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...
Oh man! haha you got me with this one, Ive had too many arguments or "heated discussions" with old school guys about KTM/Husky Mikuni carby "problems"...

First thing I ask "what ratio you running?"

"what has that got to do with anything?"

*rolls eyes walks away*
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood. "TMX is too hard to jet." ....so if you...
The RC Valve Honda guys are even worse. That CamP guy has indoctrinated them all into moronhood.

"TMX is too hard to jet."

....so if you can't jet a carb, it's the carbs fault?

Probably don't even realize the TMX features an additional fuel circuit in the form of a nozzle, which the main screws into. Total hacks. Just put a 30 yr old twist top Keihin on it, they made those for dumb people.

omalley wrote:
A lot of the CR issue also has to do with the absolutely horrid and inconsistent squish and CC on those stock. Fix the head and...
A lot of the CR issue also has to do with the absolutely horrid and inconsistent squish and CC on those stock. Fix the head and suddenly it isn’t the TMX’s fault.
Ever run singh grooves in your head? It makes an audible difference in how the bike sounds, go from kinda blah blah blah combustion to PAP PAP PAP, sounds like it’s firing with authority and true gusto, every bike I’ve done it to it’s made a very very healthy difference with response, dicks or other people call them “torque grooves” but Somender Singh was the guy who started it, Singh grooves is what he dubbed them, I find even with excessive squish, it doesn’t matter, it’s shooting fuel and air at the spark plug and cleans up combustion extremely well
9/29/2020 6:08am
I went down the Singh groove rabbit hole back around 2008 when I was building cars in Japan and for every one instance where I found someone saying it works, I found 5 people explaining why it won't. Then, I leveraged that on the lack of dyno charts and decided to leave it alone.

But I get the before/after principle on that. It requires more compression and more ignition advance to take advantage of the presumptive benefits.

For me to try it, it would require a head with removable chambers like a Luke's phathead. I won't completely butcher a Ohlins head, between Dyno runs. But I'll make two chambers. And swap em

But the prob is, that I absolutely positively refuse to deal with any of these machinists who have a soda straw view of their own machine shop. If they don't have it on the shelf, I don't want it. If I can make it, I won't buy it. If I have to ask any of them to make anything, I'm not asking anymore. You can get one of these assholes to drill and tap a m6x1.0 hole in something if it doesn't come like that already. That's fine, they've got a business model, I get it. But I'm done asking machinists to machine anything. They all over promise and under deliver.

I am probably going to have to mail my crankshaft somewhere in Asia to a rapid prototyping service because no one within my own country will modify it. And that's WITH a Fusion 360 file to go with it. Basically, the moral of the sorry is: for those CAPABLE, the job is too small. For those WILLING, the job is too difficult. Oh, and I know, I'm the asshole, the machinists all walk on water.
1
9/29/2020 7:26am
I agree some machinist dont know there workshop.

But there are mainly small machinist out there who make amazing work with the most simple machine's.

VHM is in my small village they make their own crankshafts but also modify existing one's. Check out there website vhm.nl
1
JBlain619
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Severna Park, MD, USA
9/29/2020 7:47am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2020 7:48am
I needed a laptop to tune it with. I could have spent 400 on a new Korean or Chinese Chromebook, but I decided to spend less...
I needed a laptop to tune it with. I could have spent 400 on a new Korean or Chinese Chromebook, but I decided to spend less, and get a ruggedized, somewhat period correct factory refurb Panasonic. The tuning program prob won't work well on a mobile/tablet OS anyway. This will do much better at the track than an "asus"

Felt weird to buy a computer for a bike.


The old trusty CF-30! Can't get away from them. I wish I had a dollar for every one of these I have inventoried!
9/30/2020 3:22am
JBlain619 wrote:
The old trusty CF-30! Can't get away from them. I wish I had a dollar for every one of these I have inventoried!
Thats why I got it, we used these in Iraq in the mid 00 on a piece if gear called a Blue Force Tracker. I'd have that thing on my lap, jump up out of a humvee and dump that fucker in the Fallujah streets, then sometimes step on it too accidentally. You can't bust em.

Then a few years on, I'm working within a warfighting laboratory and we have these newer ones, cf50 something?...and they just LOOK like toughbooks. Zero ruggedization. I was like "where's my old school brick that doubles as a weapon of opportunity its so heavy?"

Well I got a fresh one to have and to hold, and I'm going to keep updating and gutting it until I can't anymore.
4
15tc150
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9/30/2020 8:04am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2020 8:17am
I went down the Singh groove rabbit hole back around 2008 when I was building cars in Japan and for every one instance where I found...
I went down the Singh groove rabbit hole back around 2008 when I was building cars in Japan and for every one instance where I found someone saying it works, I found 5 people explaining why it won't. Then, I leveraged that on the lack of dyno charts and decided to leave it alone.

But I get the before/after principle on that. It requires more compression and more ignition advance to take advantage of the presumptive benefits.

For me to try it, it would require a head with removable chambers like a Luke's phathead. I won't completely butcher a Ohlins head, between Dyno runs. But I'll make two chambers. And swap em

But the prob is, that I absolutely positively refuse to deal with any of these machinists who have a soda straw view of their own machine shop. If they don't have it on the shelf, I don't want it. If I can make it, I won't buy it. If I have to ask any of them to make anything, I'm not asking anymore. You can get one of these assholes to drill and tap a m6x1.0 hole in something if it doesn't come like that already. That's fine, they've got a business model, I get it. But I'm done asking machinists to machine anything. They all over promise and under deliver.

I am probably going to have to mail my crankshaft somewhere in Asia to a rapid prototyping service because no one within my own country will modify it. And that's WITH a Fusion 360 file to go with it. Basically, the moral of the sorry is: for those CAPABLE, the job is too small. For those WILLING, the job is too difficult. Oh, and I know, I'm the asshole, the machinists all walk on water.
The instant change I get from the grooved heads I have run, in audible tone, and how they run afterwards for me was convincing enough, and iv done it to just about every bike I’ve owned after trying it out, and every time I get the same results, the dicks torque grooves I think are on the excessive side of the scale, they may work, but for what I’ve done to my heads, the grooves are incredibly minimal, and have even tested a few different placements with my 2016 125sx, In swapping domes, have I noticed anything in terms of hp gain? No, not at all, but the throttle response and how my spark plugs look before and afterwards are evidence enough, to say that there is a noticeable change in how the bike runs, and with some engines, the amount of squish I have had in the past with them, like my 2012 250sx I did nothing to the head at all, beyond the grooves themselves, and raised the cylinder to the point that I’m probably well above 2.5mm of squish, to get the piston to clear the bottom of the exhaust port, you would think I would get really really poor combustion, but that wasn’t the case, spark plugs come clean, never fouled, and how it sounded at any rpm was super crispy to the ear, placement was really key I found, usually just two grooves at the back of the head were all it took, and most of the bikes didn’t get any jetting changes either, but I did try about 5 inserts with my 125sx as they were really cheap, but the more grooves didn’t result in any better than the 2 grooves I started off with. I have seen photos of people with holes drilled in their heads from the squish band to have a literal port between the dome and squish band, but I just feel that it’s an absolute extreme.

As for Japanese engines, what were you building? Sr’s rb’s jz’s, The typical japan power houses, or did you get into the original beast, the 1uz, the most underrated engine in my mind, A friend of mine went down to the states and won pinks in a r32

Edit
To iterate on the grooves for 4 strokes though, I highly doubt they would work, the chambers are too irregular and there are too many intersecting surfaces I feel, and the turbulence created by the channels in the valves and valve faces, I feel is more than enough to cause a mix in the combustion chamber, but for 2 strokes, the dome creates a perfect bowl, and the groove do make a different swirl inside the head to mix fuel and air properly, and reduce lean pockets that cause irregular burn patterns
15tc150
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9/30/2020 8:10am
I agree some machinist dont know there workshop. But there are mainly small machinist out there who make amazing work with the most simple machine's. VHM...
I agree some machinist dont know there workshop.

But there are mainly small machinist out there who make amazing work with the most simple machine's.

VHM is in my small village they make their own crankshafts but also modify existing one's. Check out there website vhm.nl
VHM needs to become a name people recognize more, nobody realizes how involved they were in the hay day of 2 strokes, and don’t even know who they are, and what famous names ran their cranks in their pro level bikes, EHR, fatheads, Rktech, have absolutely nothing on VHM
2
JBlain619
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9/30/2020 8:29am
JBlain619 wrote:
The old trusty CF-30! Can't get away from them. I wish I had a dollar for every one of these I have inventoried!
Thats why I got it, we used these in Iraq in the mid 00 on a piece if gear called a Blue Force Tracker. I'd have...
Thats why I got it, we used these in Iraq in the mid 00 on a piece if gear called a Blue Force Tracker. I'd have that thing on my lap, jump up out of a humvee and dump that fucker in the Fallujah streets, then sometimes step on it too accidentally. You can't bust em.

Then a few years on, I'm working within a warfighting laboratory and we have these newer ones, cf50 something?...and they just LOOK like toughbooks. Zero ruggedization. I was like "where's my old school brick that doubles as a weapon of opportunity its so heavy?"

Well I got a fresh one to have and to hold, and I'm going to keep updating and gutting it until I can't anymore.
CF-52?? I believe that's what we initially replaced the 30's with on my program. Completely agree with you. Replaced more of the 52's in 3 months than I did in 6yrs with the 30. 30's were damn-near indestructible. We used them on our BFT's as well.

1
10/1/2020 2:20pm
JBlain619 wrote:
The old trusty CF-30! Can't get away from them. I wish I had a dollar for every one of these I have inventoried!
Thats why I got it, we used these in Iraq in the mid 00 on a piece if gear called a Blue Force Tracker. I'd have...
Thats why I got it, we used these in Iraq in the mid 00 on a piece if gear called a Blue Force Tracker. I'd have that thing on my lap, jump up out of a humvee and dump that fucker in the Fallujah streets, then sometimes step on it too accidentally. You can't bust em.

Then a few years on, I'm working within a warfighting laboratory and we have these newer ones, cf50 something?...and they just LOOK like toughbooks. Zero ruggedization. I was like "where's my old school brick that doubles as a weapon of opportunity its so heavy?"

Well I got a fresh one to have and to hold, and I'm going to keep updating and gutting it until I can't anymore.
JBlain619 wrote:
CF-52?? I believe that's what we initially replaced the 30's with on my program. Completely agree with you. Replaced more of the 52's in 3 months...
CF-52?? I believe that's what we initially replaced the 30's with on my program. Completely agree with you. Replaced more of the 52's in 3 months than I did in 6yrs with the 30. 30's were damn-near indestructible. We used them on our BFT's as well.

Oh OK cool I'm not speaking Greek then. I unboxed this one. Its hammered dog shit, I'm gonna make him send me another.
1
GVNR_moto
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10/1/2020 5:25pm
Anyone know any gains from indexing the spark plug?
10/2/2020 6:31am
Would it be weird if I did a Panasonic Toughbook and a Chassis dyno build inside a YZ360 build thread? Only if i get drunk and weld something to it.

No, im dead ass serious, do any of you have a laser cut machine, let's do an aluminum plate i can tack in the toughbook embossed spot with the YZ logo.

If i was a shitbag rioter, I'd just carry this computer as a weapon. You can be charged if you have a bat. But with this, when the cops roll up, you just start answering emails. Its 5lbs, made out of aluminum, has sharp edges. And a grippy handle that prob has decent traction for bloody hands.




Laugh all you'd like at these rollers. They're just a 3d printed poly. Only has one bearing, then an alloy spindle that sideloads the bearing when you torque it. So I'll go to home depot, buy a foot of that tubing on the hardware aisle and trim them to the proper stand-off length from the frame and sub frame. Already have the ti hardware laying around somewhere. A looottt lighter than a traditional 2 bearing rubber roller.

Will.it last? I don't k ow but this isn't a Toyota camry, I don't ride it to work, and theyre about 5 bucks each.





3
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philG
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10/2/2020 11:57am
Thanks, I'll email them
We had VHM on our supermoto TM300's, and they were happy to produce custom inserts for us. Good company to deal with IMO.
10/2/2020 1:21pm
philG wrote:
We had VHM on our supermoto TM300's, and they were happy to produce custom inserts for us. Good company to deal with IMO.
No dice at VHM. Tbey couldn't do it. I'm going to try CMI. Some know thats who actually makes most PC and formerly Hinsons stuff.

Well I wanted to be able to say everything was coated. Final batch.




Entire clutch, actuation rod, everything minus the two friction surfaces for the pressure plate and hub. Now those plates will slide left right like butter.

97 and 98 primary drives. Kickstart ring. 97 and 98 water pump. 88 power valve. See those bearing cages i pulled the needles out of. Every. Is. Coated. Brake pad tensioner plate deals. Some more brake pins.

And if you look real close, there's a clamp top for a Brembo front MC. Figured I'd coat that too so I could tq it down to the bar nice and tight and still have that slick cap to make it spin when I cartwheel this thing. I don't like the plastic wedge in the WC clutch. Sortve feels like it moves to me.

3
Sc2
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10/2/2020 1:53pm
This is what you call a proper build, even though I only understand about 18% what's going on, far to intellectual for me 😊
5
nch209
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10/2/2020 4:12pm
Sc2 wrote:
This is what you call a proper build, even though I only understand about 18% what's going on, far to intellectual for me 😊
I no be smarts either, so I am wit you. Nice he shows purdy pics.
1
cdoggy81
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10/2/2020 8:51pm
Sc2 wrote:
This is what you call a proper build, even though I only understand about 18% what's going on, far to intellectual for me 😊
nch209 wrote:
I no be smarts either, so I am wit you. Nice he shows purdy pics.
😂
nch209
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10/2/2020 10:52pm
OP- Please, more details on CMI. Who are they, and what did they make for PC please?

Also, more info about spark plug gaps and mods. I am pretty much a dope concerning those...

Thanks in advance.
-n8
10/3/2020 4:40am
nch209 wrote:
OP- Please, more details on CMI. Who are they, and what did they make for PC please? Also, more info about spark plug gaps and mods...
OP- Please, more details on CMI. Who are they, and what did they make for PC please?

Also, more info about spark plug gaps and mods. I am pretty much a dope concerning those...

Thanks in advance.
-n8
Go look at PC bikes closely. In the graphics, you'll see a logo, airbox and fender, CMI. His name is Chuck Cheek and he's got a machine shop in Placentia. He used to make Hinson stuff until Hinson got set up. He makes most of Pro circuits hard parts.

As far plugs I dont really claim to be a genius there at all, but like I said before, multiple electrode plugs don't work, and you want the end of the ground strap to only extend halfway across the diameter of the bottom electrode. The old yellow box ngk for some bikes weren't like that and you could nick the end of the electrode off a bit shorter.

Indexing them with the gap away from thenintake.charge so the ground strap blocks rhe spark from being extinguished by the intake charge is supposed to yeild gains but ive never done thst back to back so that's just "so I've heard".
2
10/3/2020 12:21pm
Amazing build!

Those toughbooks are cool. I remember reading about one that apparently stopped a bullet/ saved a soldiers life in Iraq. Riot shield?
nch209
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NoVa, VA, USA
10/3/2020 5:01pm
nch209 wrote:
OP- Please, more details on CMI. Who are they, and what did they make for PC please? Also, more info about spark plug gaps and mods...
OP- Please, more details on CMI. Who are they, and what did they make for PC please?

Also, more info about spark plug gaps and mods. I am pretty much a dope concerning those...

Thanks in advance.
-n8
Go look at PC bikes closely. In the graphics, you'll see a logo, airbox and fender, CMI. His name is Chuck Cheek and he's got a...
Go look at PC bikes closely. In the graphics, you'll see a logo, airbox and fender, CMI. His name is Chuck Cheek and he's got a machine shop in Placentia. He used to make Hinson stuff until Hinson got set up. He makes most of Pro circuits hard parts.

As far plugs I dont really claim to be a genius there at all, but like I said before, multiple electrode plugs don't work, and you want the end of the ground strap to only extend halfway across the diameter of the bottom electrode. The old yellow box ngk for some bikes weren't like that and you could nick the end of the electrode off a bit shorter.

Indexing them with the gap away from thenintake.charge so the ground strap blocks rhe spark from being extinguished by the intake charge is supposed to yeild gains but ive never done thst back to back so that's just "so I've heard".
Thanks for the info!
1
10/5/2020 8:59am
keysersoze wrote:
Amazing build!

Those toughbooks are cool. I remember reading about one that apparently stopped a bullet/ saved a soldiers life in Iraq. Riot shield?
I've heard that story, and id lean toward believing it.

HPI - "we can install basemaps from Jobes 360 for you to start with."

Do ylu think, for a single second after reading this thread that those basemaps were installed? Of course not! So, I got a 750 dollar blank box that won't run a bike.

I'll generate the maps from scratch...for a bike I've never heard run....so I can hear it run. 6 maps, actually. Of varying ignition advance/retard profiles. Not looking forward to that.

I had to change engine builders. Tom Morgan flat out told me, and I quote, "I dont really have the time to spend more then an hour or two at a time on this, I cant even spend half a day on it."

Imagine an engine builder whom you're paying full price telling you thst he doesnt have time to do your shit because hes doing other people's, whom he recieved their motors AFTER yours. then after explaining to him 10+ times what you need done, he sends you a text message saying "im not sure what I'm supposed to be doing at this point"... because none of them listen. Its dismissiveness. Let's just say it was my pleasure to give one engine builder the name and address of a rival engine builder and say "put tracking on it".

Thats exactly how it took Rich at Dynoport 3 months to make a pipe...and made the entirely wrong pipe for a different bike, put it in a box and mailed it to me. Proceeded to forward him 4 emails with the info in them. Literally put a male spigot on a pipe with a male exhaust flange....a bike that has had a nale exhaust flange, without fail, since its inception in 1976. But, I know, im the asshole. Somehow.

Its disheartening but the fact is, most of these industry people whom we hold in high regard for their accolades on the national circuit over the years...are actually dismissive, lazy dickheads who laugh at anyone who isnt sending them a cookie cutter 5 anglw valve job they can just chuck into a Serdi and head to Chili's for lunch.

Invest in yourself, and your tools, because I'm telling you, these guys are just taking your money and laughing at you. Apply some self guided learning and do this all yourself.... because the 16 yr old vapers that these builders are ACTUALLY having bolt your shit together are way more careless than you want to know about..unless you actually believe thst Eric Gorr himself installed your power valve.


12
1
15tc150
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10/5/2020 10:05am
How many cylinders sent to pro circuit see mitch’s hands lol.
1

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