AJ starting with BOTH feet on the pegs...

Falcon
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Falcon 8/18/2020 11:34am
8/18/2020 11:34am
You guys who think the pros can only start because of all the aids need to go line up next to them a few times. I guarantee you that each and every one of them could wax each and every one of us to the first turn without any of the devices.
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Tracktor
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Tracktor 8/18/2020 11:41am
8/18/2020 11:41am
Taddy Blazusiak snickered at this................
RyanD797
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RyanD797 8/18/2020 11:55am
8/18/2020 11:55am
I'd say. If you put the top 20 in SX on 2-strokes, with carburetors, no starting devices (including ignition mapping for starts), Chad Reed would be on the podium a lot.
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otg042
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otg042 8/18/2020 12:31pm
8/18/2020 12:31pm
I read on RacerX a while back that these 450s are pulling 2.8 g off the start. When they get to the first turn they're doing 2.8 g the other direction. No disrespect to the racer's who came before them, but they weren't doing that. All these aids look silly in my opinion, but that's some serious force off the start that wasn't there 10yrs ago.

All these aids has closed the gap for error. It used to be if your reaction was behind a 10th of a sec you would get a bad start. Now it's more like, if you're off a 100th of second you're going to get a bad start. These aids have made getting to the first turn a lot more competitive, that's a good thing in my opinion.
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Tuna
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Tuna 8/18/2020 12:41pm
8/18/2020 12:41pm
Robgvx wrote:
I’m sure some of you aren’t seeing what he’s doing. He’s not just using starting blocks like short kids do because they can’t reach the ground...
I’m sure some of you aren’t seeing what he’s doing. He’s not just using starting blocks like short kids do because they can’t reach the ground. He has both feet ON the pegs and balancing the bike with his toes.
We get it. Big advantage to keep your weight forward with toes down off the start.
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Brent
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Brent 8/18/2020 1:11pm
8/18/2020 1:11pm
Robgvx wrote:
...courtesy of some custom-made and ingenious blocks. I’ve not seen this before ( but may have missed it) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/18/444334/s1200_E2E56CF0_8594_424F_8747_0716E3BF3A77.jpg[/img]
...courtesy of some custom-made and ingenious blocks.

I’ve not seen this before ( but may have missed it)


...on a side note, that Yoko kit he's wearing is just badass...
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toomanykaws
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toomanykaws 8/18/2020 1:23pm
8/18/2020 1:23pm
I don’t remember any using blocks in the 80-90s. Maybe riders are shorter today. Lol
jorgechavez 8/18/2020 1:30pm
8/18/2020 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2020 1:31pm
FGR01 wrote:
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/18/444385/s1200_82710866_714035466096772_6912361473693368366_n.jpg[/img]
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX?


Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has starting blocks tall enough that it allows him to keep his heels on the pegs while also having his toes on his starting block.
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FGR01
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FGR01 8/18/2020 1:38pm
8/18/2020 1:38pm
jorgechavez wrote:
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has...
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has starting blocks tall enough that it allows him to keep his heels on the pegs while also having his toes on his starting block.
It really wasn't much of a difference. Go back and watch it. Tomac's feet barely moved at all after he launched. It was essentially the same thing. Webb's right foot looks like he might be doing the heel on peg toe on box thing.
jorgechavez 8/18/2020 1:49pm
8/18/2020 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2020 1:53pm
jorgechavez wrote:
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has...
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has starting blocks tall enough that it allows him to keep his heels on the pegs while also having his toes on his starting block.
FGR01 wrote:
It really wasn't much of a difference. Go back and watch it. Tomac's feet barely moved at all after he launched. It was essentially the same...
It really wasn't much of a difference. Go back and watch it. Tomac's feet barely moved at all after he launched. It was essentially the same thing. Webb's right foot looks like he might be doing the heel on peg toe on box thing.
In that picture you can see quite clearly that Webb's right heel is not on the peg whatsoever.

I stand by what I said, what AJ is doing is quite a bit different from what you see Tomac and Webb doing in the picture that was posted. As to how that effects the starts I have no idea.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 8/18/2020 1:54pm
8/18/2020 1:54pm
FGR01 wrote:
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/18/444385/s1200_82710866_714035466096772_6912361473693368366_n.jpg[/img]
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX?


Tomac still can’t buy a start!
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CG118
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CG118 8/18/2020 4:13pm
8/18/2020 4:13pm
otg042 wrote:
I read on RacerX a while back that these 450s are pulling 2.8 g off the start. When they get to the first turn they're doing...
I read on RacerX a while back that these 450s are pulling 2.8 g off the start. When they get to the first turn they're doing 2.8 g the other direction. No disrespect to the racer's who came before them, but they weren't doing that. All these aids look silly in my opinion, but that's some serious force off the start that wasn't there 10yrs ago.

All these aids has closed the gap for error. It used to be if your reaction was behind a 10th of a sec you would get a bad start. Now it's more like, if you're off a 100th of second you're going to get a bad start. These aids have made getting to the first turn a lot more competitive, that's a good thing in my opinion.
Interesting take.
So the margin for error has decreased.
Crush
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Crush 8/18/2020 4:21pm
8/18/2020 4:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2020 4:23pm
Lightning78 wrote:
If all starting devices, especially the fork books were banned all of a sudden, can you imagine how bad some of the best in the world...
If all starting devices, especially the fork books were banned all of a sudden, can you imagine how bad some of the best in the world would be at getting off the line? Haha it would be priceless to watch
It's so lame honestly... It's like perfect dirt and track prep at every round. I want to see the pros ride the most difficult shit. I want to see who can master every aspect.

You'd assume it would make things less consistent... which is better for the fans and for racing... and if everyone is doing it, and Eli still gets shit starts and Webb good ones, then what the fuck is the point. Just piss it all off. Throttle. Clutch. Shift. Race.

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BS12
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BS12 8/18/2020 5:47pm
8/18/2020 5:47pm
FGR01 wrote:
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/18/444385/s1200_82710866_714035466096772_6912361473693368366_n.jpg[/img]
So, we just gonna ignore Tomac doing the same thing in SX?


LOL I wouldn't use Tomac as a very good comparison/case study. He still somehow managed to enter the first turn dead last at the penultimate round.
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Crush
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Crush 8/18/2020 5:57pm
8/18/2020 5:57pm
Bearuno wrote:
Nah, he should run them higher, have hooks in the base legs that 'key' into the grid, so he can use those dirty great big feet...
Nah, he should run them higher, have hooks in the base legs that 'key' into the grid, so he can use those dirty great big feet and ankles to get an added 'push' to help his probable mid / high 60s horsepowered engine....... Woohoo Woohoo

But, I see what you mean, what with all of the 'stuff' that you list.

Hey, Big Fella - did you notice the lack of 'Super Sizeing' Jasikonis, and the other Big Bastards in GPs indulge ( well, don't indulge ) in? About the most you see is the flattening of the seats. Not even remotely high bars. Much like how David Knights bikes fitted normal sized humans ( I tried the bike he used at the 4 Days here - it fitted a 5' 8" Bear perfectly).
Bloss is quite similar, standard seat and bars I believe... You get used to whatever but height changes definitely affect cornering.
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Wiff3
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Wiff3 8/18/2020 6:08pm
8/18/2020 6:08pm
jorgechavez wrote:
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has...
Big difference between the two. You can clearly see that Tomac’s feet are below the pegs and are fully on the starting block. Whereas Jasikonis has starting blocks tall enough that it allows him to keep his heels on the pegs while also having his toes on his starting block.
FGR01 wrote:
It really wasn't much of a difference. Go back and watch it. Tomac's feet barely moved at all after he launched. It was essentially the same...
It really wasn't much of a difference. Go back and watch it. Tomac's feet barely moved at all after he launched. It was essentially the same thing. Webb's right foot looks like he might be doing the heel on peg toe on box thing.
jorgechavez wrote:
In that picture you can see quite clearly that Webb's right heel is not on the peg whatsoever. I stand by what I said, what AJ...
In that picture you can see quite clearly that Webb's right heel is not on the peg whatsoever.

I stand by what I said, what AJ is doing is quite a bit different from what you see Tomac and Webb doing in the picture that was posted. As to how that effects the starts I have no idea.
I really wish I could touch the ground like Reed is too! lol
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Wandell 8/18/2020 7:52pm
8/18/2020 7:52pm
In 2021 this will be the next big craze! Or the AMA will ban it.

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Bearuno
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Bearuno 8/19/2020 1:44am
8/19/2020 1:44am
Crush wrote:
Bloss is quite similar, standard seat and bars I believe... You get used to whatever but height changes definitely affect cornering.
With my non bending knees, and how often the 'non bend' decides to reduce, I've a variety of seats made with different heights - 4 so far.

Each rise, makes turning, and negotiating nasty, tight stuff just that much worse ( not to mention having my feet nowhere near touching the ground) , to the point that the highest one - think Jack Van Velthoven height - but hey, you're a relative Pup, so may not know who he was Woohoo , well, it's just plain dredful to ride. But, for me to be able to ride, it has to be used, at times. The rare times I can use my standard height seat, it is amazing how much better the old beast is to use.

There's a whole bunch of bloody big blokes in MXGP, but none of them have their bikes particularly 'embiggened'.

If I were going anywhere near an MX start, Now I'd be taking inspiration from Shorty, and making me some 'beario booster' blocks. But, MX and I? - well, it's not really happening nowadays - it's the Bush and Mountains in back of me that I flail about in.
Ray_MXS
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Ray_MXS 8/19/2020 2:04am
8/19/2020 2:04am
When a start helping device becomes so mandatory that everyone uses them, the point of them is completely lost. Just ban and bring everyone back to basics. Saves money for everyone, less parts that can break and starting skill is more rewarded.

And yes, starting blocks should only be allowed for people that actually cant reach down.
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Crush
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Crush 8/19/2020 3:20am
8/19/2020 3:20am
Bearuno wrote:
With my non bending knees, and how often the 'non bend' decides to reduce, I've a variety of seats made with different heights - 4 so...
With my non bending knees, and how often the 'non bend' decides to reduce, I've a variety of seats made with different heights - 4 so far.

Each rise, makes turning, and negotiating nasty, tight stuff just that much worse ( not to mention having my feet nowhere near touching the ground) , to the point that the highest one - think Jack Van Velthoven height - but hey, you're a relative Pup, so may not know who he was Woohoo , well, it's just plain dredful to ride. But, for me to be able to ride, it has to be used, at times. The rare times I can use my standard height seat, it is amazing how much better the old beast is to use.

There's a whole bunch of bloody big blokes in MXGP, but none of them have their bikes particularly 'embiggened'.

If I were going anywhere near an MX start, Now I'd be taking inspiration from Shorty, and making me some 'beario booster' blocks. But, MX and I? - well, it's not really happening nowadays - it's the Bush and Mountains in back of me that I flail about in.
Don't know Velthoven!

Only two that I can really think of that changed their bikes were the two Travis'... Preston and Pastrana. Although they didn't always, at a time, they both had really high bars and seats, but wasn't always. Travis had a couple normal Suzukis and Preston's 450 Honda and Kawi were normal but I seem to remember his KTM and 125 Honda having tall seats...?

I found it was definitely better sometimes... but others not. Sometimes it's good if there is ruts, as you're out of the way and the bike is already kind of turning itself tracking the rut... flats not as good... and bush bashing it wasn't either. Harder to get under stuff or around tight trees etc.
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Ray_MXS 8/19/2020 3:48am
8/19/2020 3:48am
Crush wrote:
Don't know Velthoven! Only two that I can really think of that changed their bikes were the two Travis'... Preston and Pastrana. Although they didn't always...
Don't know Velthoven!

Only two that I can really think of that changed their bikes were the two Travis'... Preston and Pastrana. Although they didn't always, at a time, they both had really high bars and seats, but wasn't always. Travis had a couple normal Suzukis and Preston's 450 Honda and Kawi were normal but I seem to remember his KTM and 125 Honda having tall seats...?

I found it was definitely better sometimes... but others not. Sometimes it's good if there is ruts, as you're out of the way and the bike is already kind of turning itself tracking the rut... flats not as good... and bush bashing it wasn't either. Harder to get under stuff or around tight trees etc.
I´m also a tall guy and I tried tons of things to get comfortable. Or actually, comfortable isnt always the right word. I just found it exhausting for my legs having to stand up so far each time so I tried to reduce the distance I had to stand up. I found that raising the seat often times only made the center of gravity go up and make a worse handling bike in favor of making it slightly easier on my legs.

After years of trial and error I found that lowering the pegs and having a slightly higher bar mount was the way to go for me. And I just had to suck it up and get stronger legs Laughing
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Crush
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Crush 8/19/2020 3:55am
8/19/2020 3:55am
Lots of squats! haha
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Bearuno
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Bearuno 8/19/2020 8:20am
8/19/2020 8:20am
Ray_MXS wrote:
I´m also a tall guy and I tried tons of things to get comfortable. Or actually, comfortable isnt always the right word. I just found it...
I´m also a tall guy and I tried tons of things to get comfortable. Or actually, comfortable isnt always the right word. I just found it exhausting for my legs having to stand up so far each time so I tried to reduce the distance I had to stand up. I found that raising the seat often times only made the center of gravity go up and make a worse handling bike in favor of making it slightly easier on my legs.

After years of trial and error I found that lowering the pegs and having a slightly higher bar mount was the way to go for me. And I just had to suck it up and get stronger legs Laughing
Or, learn how to time bumps to help you get up on the pegs..........

It's just a dig that a mate of mine says to me constantly, but, he's basically correct - it's about the only way I can get up on the pegs. Blush

I'm basically a near 100% sit down rider now, which makes for some very , Very bloody scary moments. And, some snail like speeds. Meh, at least I'm riding.

Back to Shorty Jasikonis - I'm absolutely fine with the setup he's using. Like everything, it would have its advantages brought, and disadvantages incurred.

Post a reply to: AJ starting with BOTH feet on the pegs...