Unadilla Qualifying - Impossible Time - Roczen Versus the Rest

O&GDriller
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O&GDriller
Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 5:46am
I can't comprehend how Roczen could be 3.1+ seconds faster than the next fastest qualifying on a 1.3 mile, 2:15 track. The talent and machinery at this level just doesn't allow this much separation. Three plus seconds is so huge it's hard to put words to it. I almost want to call BS and say something was wrong with the timing system or transponder. It's just not possible to be that much faster...
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mx621
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mx621 8/12/2019 12:02pm
8/12/2019 12:02pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2019 12:03pm
I guess tomac’s transponder was messed up this day too, Hangtown 2015
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Robgvx
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Robgvx 8/12/2019 12:04pm
8/12/2019 12:04pm
In Latvia last year Herlings’ best lap time in the qualifying race was more than five seconds a lap faster than the best time of Clement Desalle who finished second.
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mx621
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mx621 8/12/2019 12:04pm
8/12/2019 12:04pm

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gt80rider
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gt80rider 8/12/2019 12:06pm
8/12/2019 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2019 12:07pm
That Honda 450 has got it going on.... Power, but especially whoop speed.... Of course Ken is a huge factor, but I don't know if we've seen anyone go this fast in the whoops for a very long time (JS7??)........ also.... Ken's ability to put the power to the ground is just incredible this year... With Honda crushing it in MXGP too, maybe they have gotten something figured out....
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OneWordResponseGuy 8/12/2019 12:19pm
8/12/2019 12:19pm
gt80rider wrote:
That Honda 450 has got it going on.... Power, but especially whoop speed.... Of course Ken is a huge factor, but I don't know if we've...
That Honda 450 has got it going on.... Power, but especially whoop speed.... Of course Ken is a huge factor, but I don't know if we've seen anyone go this fast in the whoops for a very long time (JS7??)........ also.... Ken's ability to put the power to the ground is just incredible this year... With Honda crushing it in MXGP too, maybe they have gotten something figured out....
Ya, those Unadilla whoops are massive. If Reed and Stewart lined up it would be an easy 1-2 finish.

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agn5009
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agn5009 8/12/2019 12:28pm
8/12/2019 12:28pm
gt80rider wrote:
That Honda 450 has got it going on.... Power, but especially whoop speed.... Of course Ken is a huge factor, but I don't know if we've...
That Honda 450 has got it going on.... Power, but especially whoop speed.... Of course Ken is a huge factor, but I don't know if we've seen anyone go this fast in the whoops for a very long time (JS7??)........ also.... Ken's ability to put the power to the ground is just incredible this year... With Honda crushing it in MXGP too, maybe they have gotten something figured out....
It was one race man. Eli has put the power to the ground more often than Ken.

Why do you guys do this? Ken has been subpar (for him) all year with a few amazing races sprinkled in. This is nothing new.
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O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 1:27pm
8/12/2019 1:27pm
I'm puzzled why my initial post would get numerous thumbs down. I write a post expressing fascination at the speed of one of the best in the business who also has overcome tremendous physical challenges and I get thumbs down!?!?!? Surely you guys detected the humor intended when I mentioned the timing system must have been off? If not, some guys need to get a sense of humor...
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O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 1:29pm
8/12/2019 1:29pm
Robgvx wrote:
In Latvia last year Herlings’ best lap time in the qualifying race was more than five seconds a lap faster than the best time of Clement...
In Latvia last year Herlings’ best lap time in the qualifying race was more than five seconds a lap faster than the best time of Clement Desalle who finished second.
Yeah, but Herlings is an alien, species undetermined.
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wsmille2
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wsmille2 8/12/2019 1:35pm
8/12/2019 1:35pm
O&GDriller wrote:
I can't comprehend how Roczen could be 3.1+ seconds faster than the next fastest qualifying on a 1.3 mile, 2:15 track. The talent and machinery at...
I can't comprehend how Roczen could be 3.1+ seconds faster than the next fastest qualifying on a 1.3 mile, 2:15 track. The talent and machinery at this level just doesn't allow this much separation. Three plus seconds is so huge it's hard to put words to it. I almost want to call BS and say something was wrong with the timing system or transponder. It's just not possible to be that much faster...
Its possible because it happened. In some of the opening laps in the motos, he was also 3 seconds faster that the other riders.

So it happened multiple times. Why do you think there is an issue with the transponder or scoring system?

At times, both Tomac and Roczen have been on another level from the other riders. So if Tomac or Roczen is having a bad day (issues with themselves or with setup), then the other can be seconds faster..
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O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 1:54pm
8/12/2019 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2019 1:56pm
OK, I'll repeat myself and clarify again, try to keep up here. I WAS JOKING, JOKING, JOKING IN MENTIONING THE TIMING AND TRANSPONDER. Good God almighty, when the hell did vitards lose their sense of humor. Damn people, I was throwing out the timing as an explanation to the unexplainable.

Also, being 3 seconds faster in the opening laps of a race is meaningless when the guy out front has an open track and the guys behind are trying to advance and defend at the same time. That's why nearly 4 seconds in qualifying is so very, very impressive. Everybody can "start" their qualifying/heater lap at a time that minimizes/avoids slower riders and is as level a playing field as they'll see all weekend.

I wasn't trying to start an argument or throw shade at anyone, I was recognizing Roczen for an amazing feat of riding. He humiliated and demoralized all others out there. I'm not posting as a fan of Honda or Roczen, just a fan of incredibly fast riding.
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Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 8/12/2019 2:19pm
8/12/2019 2:19pm
He just strung it together the best out of anyone

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GuyB
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GuyB 8/12/2019 2:24pm
8/12/2019 2:24pm
Late in moto two...


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O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 2:52pm
8/12/2019 2:52pm
Derpin'DJ,

For clarification I want to make sure I grasp the point you're making in your post. Basically, you're saying he turned the best lap time because the individual segments were faster? If so, I now grasp the concept and appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. The concept you're mentioning is that if you have 3 segments and all segments are faster than the competition the entire lap will be quicker? Did I get that correct.

P.S. As some don't seem to appreciate my sense of humor, please note I'm funnin' with Derpin'DJ here. Good natured, harmless fun...
wsmille2
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wsmille2 8/12/2019 2:52pm
8/12/2019 2:52pm
Early in moto 1 too.

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Chance1216
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Chance1216 8/12/2019 2:58pm
8/12/2019 2:58pm
Anytime a Honda wins is a good day. I know, I know, here comes the thumbs down...... 😉
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Crush
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Crush 8/12/2019 3:08pm
8/12/2019 3:08pm
Kenny is a freak in ruts. Super quick and super consistent. Add the slot-care track prep and wallah. How the fuck do you spell wallah?
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Crush
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Crush 8/12/2019 3:10pm
8/12/2019 3:10pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
He just strung it together the best out of anyone [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/12/365976/s1200_Screenshot_2019_08_13_07_18_21_89.jpg[/img]
He just strung it together the best out of anyone

Cool to see that, quick and consistent. Smooth is fast in ruts they say!
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 3:22pm
8/12/2019 3:22pm
I'm so impressed with Roczen's performance I went back and looked to see if I actually had a reason to be impressed.
I went back and looked at all 2019 450 qualifying times of the fastest and next fastest. What I found suggests Roczen did perform at an level well above the competition based on 2019 times.

Race/Fastest/Second/Differential

Hangtown/2:15.2/2:15.3/0.1

Pala/2:07.1/2:07.4/0.3

Denver/2:02.5/2:04.2/1.7

Mt. Morris/2:02.8/2:03.2/0.4

Florida/2:08.2/2:09.2/1.0

Southwick/2:07.6/2:08.3/0.7

Redbud/2:05.1/2:05.2/0.1

Spring Creek/2:11.1/2:11.7/0.6

Washougal/2:17.6/2:19.8/2.2

Unadilla/2:11.5/2:14.6/3.1

I think statistically the numbers speak for themselves and Roczen truly was in a different league than any other race this season. Washougal was the widest spread other than Unadilla at 2.2 seconds which is also HUGE. The average differential is 1.0 seconds so Roczen running a lap 3.1 seconds quicker is truly phenomenal.

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psychotronBR 8/12/2019 3:29pm
8/12/2019 3:29pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
He just strung it together the best out of anyone [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/12/365976/s1200_Screenshot_2019_08_13_07_18_21_89.jpg[/img]
He just strung it together the best out of anyone

Couldn't help but notice Freddy Norens name up there in the top 3, dude was FLYING!

Too bad his race result didn't reflect it.
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Silas444
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Silas444 8/12/2019 3:37pm
8/12/2019 3:37pm
Crush wrote:
Kenny is a freak in ruts. Super quick and super consistent. Add the slot-care track prep and wallah. How the fuck do you spell wallah?
Viola.
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Bearuno 8/12/2019 3:39pm
8/12/2019 3:39pm
Crush wrote:
Kenny is a freak in ruts. Super quick and super consistent. Add the slot-care track prep and wallah. How the fuck do you spell wallah?
'Voila' ................ It's one of those words, oh Oversized Simian Woohoo .

Just the other day, I pronounced it ( as many times as I could fit it in) as it's spelled, just to piss off a friend who's a professor of languages, and an annoying twonker at times.
O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 8/12/2019 3:46pm
8/12/2019 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2019 3:48pm
I got to ride with Freddy at Reynard's while he was on the way to Mt. Morris from Denver. Freddy knows Robbie and spent the week there riding and training with Bloss, Bogle, Winter and several other 250 and 450 National Pros before he got the JGR ride. Canard also rode with them most of the week as Trey has taken up residency at Reynard's working as a tester for HRC.

Robbie had them doing 35 minute motos and Freddy was every bit as fast as the guys on "better" equipment. Matter of fact I believe Freddy had Robbie's dad Robert rebuild the engine(s) in his practice bike(s) while he was there.

Robbie would send Trey out first as the rabbit. It was funny hearing Trey whine to Robbie that he didn't want to as he hadn't done a 35 in several years. Away they went and they never caught Trey for the entire 35 minute motos. Additionally, spacing between Freddy and the rest was consistent and they were turning pretty similar lap times. The kid is fast as hell and a pleasure to be around. It was a good day to ride and be entertained.

Freddy's speed is demonstrated by the fact that he's 9th in the points standings and did most of that out of a van on his own.

P.S. I should state I rode on the same track as Freddy and the others, not ride "with" them. I'm old and slow, they're ....
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PRM31
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PRM31 8/12/2019 5:54pm
8/12/2019 5:54pm
Listening to Kenny’s bike, I don’t think peak HP has anything to do with his fast time. He almost never has it high in the revs. Seems to spend most of the time near the torque peak. Be interesting to see a data log and see how long he is actually at full throttle each lap and what rev band he stays in. He just never slows down!
zehn
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zehn 8/12/2019 6:25pm
8/12/2019 6:25pm
PRM31 wrote:
Listening to Kenny’s bike, I don’t think peak HP has anything to do with his fast time. He almost never has it high in the revs...
Listening to Kenny’s bike, I don’t think peak HP has anything to do with his fast time. He almost never has it high in the revs. Seems to spend most of the time near the torque peak. Be interesting to see a data log and see how long he is actually at full throttle each lap and what rev band he stays in. He just never slows down!
It's pretty well known that he is generally a gear higher than most other riders, in both MX and SX
Drop-Bear
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Drop-Bear 8/12/2019 8:05pm
8/12/2019 8:05pm
O&GDriller wrote:
I can't comprehend how Roczen could be 3.1+ seconds faster than the next fastest qualifying on a 1.3 mile, 2:15 track. The talent and machinery at...
I can't comprehend how Roczen could be 3.1+ seconds faster than the next fastest qualifying on a 1.3 mile, 2:15 track. The talent and machinery at this level just doesn't allow this much separation. Three plus seconds is so huge it's hard to put words to it. I almost want to call BS and say something was wrong with the timing system or transponder. It's just not possible to be that much faster...
You didn't notice everyone else was racing for 2nd place?
Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 8/12/2019 8:16pm
8/12/2019 8:16pm
I’m not sure if this is a backhanded compliment, or if that’s even a thing...but if it is, I would suspect this OP is an example of one.
WheelieNelson 8/13/2019 5:58am
8/13/2019 5:58am
He hit every corner with momentum and strung sections together smoothly. I doubt he was going much faster than others if any on the straights and jumps. It’s all corner speed I’d guess
gt80rider
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gt80rider 8/14/2019 5:32am
8/14/2019 5:32am
agn5009 wrote:
It was one race man. Eli has put the power to the ground more often than Ken. Why do you guys do this? Ken has been...
It was one race man. Eli has put the power to the ground more often than Ken.

Why do you guys do this? Ken has been subpar (for him) all year with a few amazing races sprinkled in. This is nothing new.
Far from one race, when Ken has been "on", he was absolutely smoking the whoops in SX this year, as well as at the outdoor rounds... how have you not noticed the difference in Ken's whoop speed compared to everyone else all year? Watch some races man!
motomike137
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motomike137 8/14/2019 5:46am
8/14/2019 5:46am
Kenny is easily the most "talented" guy in the class. Give him a highly technical track, a cool day and watch him make mince meat of the field. We got a glimpse of 2016 outdoor Ken last weekend Smile
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