Just how fast is fast?

jonesaustin
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jonesaustin 6/4/2019 4:33pm
6/4/2019 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2019 4:34pm
shepherding controlled chaos in life threatening circumstances
Mavetism
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Mavetism 6/4/2019 4:46pm
6/4/2019 4:46pm
bbhMoto wrote:
What surprises me is how the hell the 250's ran faster on such a power hungry track?
1st moto
- JCooper 2.07.3.
- KenR 2.10.5.
Seriously??
Any 450 is slower than a factory star racing 250 Yamaha now.
Definitly has nothing do to with the SLIGHT moisture.
Did you even watch the races? :D

Electro
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Electro 6/4/2019 7:21pm
6/4/2019 7:21pm
There is usually about a 5 mile an hour average difference between classes. From the math I've done at local tracks any way.
bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 6/5/2019 12:34pm
6/5/2019 12:34pm
bbhMoto wrote:
What surprises me is how the hell the 250's ran faster on such a power hungry track?
1st moto
- JCooper 2.07.3.
- KenR 2.10.5.
Seriously??
Mavetism wrote:
Any 450 is slower than a factory star racing 250 Yamaha now. Definitly has nothing do to with the SLIGHT moisture. Did you even watch the...
Any 450 is slower than a factory star racing 250 Yamaha now.
Definitly has nothing do to with the SLIGHT moisture.
Did you even watch the races? :D

I did but I thought the uphills would have favored the 450 power more. That and the fact that the better riders are on 450's makes JCooper's time even more impressive.

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Derek Harris 6/5/2019 1:01pm
6/5/2019 1:01pm
Until this weekend - EVERY fast qualifier has been fastest in 250f class
I made this argument last year - and will make it again - the 450 needs to go.
The 250f race machine is nearly superior in all ways - and younger, less experienced riders are turning faster laps on them than the "vets" who were champs of the 250 class.

On the flip side - it take MORE skill to go fast on a 450 now days. They are so much bike - and slower to stop, turn, and accelerate initially (until you get enough traction to lay down all their power) it actually is HARDER to race a 450 in these really rough tracks. So we COULD argue the 450 needs to stay for these top guys to "tame"

IMHO AC222 was CORRECT in his choice of a 350. His switch to 450 is largely because KTM finally got the weight down - and all their R&D efforts and race team choices are focussed on it.
I also wouldn't put it past AC222 to be running a 400- perfectly legal over there.

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haydos25
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haydos25 6/5/2019 8:15pm
6/5/2019 8:15pm
bbhMoto wrote:
I did but I thought the uphills would have favored the 450 power more. That and the fact that the better riders are on 450's makes...
I did but I thought the uphills would have favored the 450 power more. That and the fact that the better riders are on 450's makes JCooper's time even more impressive.
Are you missing the part where there was a downpour and thunder storm meaning the 250 race was red flagged and the 450 race then went off with a completely different track to the conditions Justin Cooper had when he set his fastest lap time?

JBrockman856 6/6/2019 6:25am
6/6/2019 6:25am
This is the 250 A vs 250 C fast lap difference a LL18. Only two motos separating the races (one of those being a 65 class) so fairly similar track conditions. I think it might surprise some of you guys what heater a "C" rider could throw down.

Obviously, there is a very clear difference in a LL C rider and an actual C rider.



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Denn700
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Denn700 6/6/2019 7:10pm
6/6/2019 7:10pm
http://2xpromotions.com/results/

Regional at Hangtown. 250 Pro Sport was about 10 seconds a lap faster than 250 C. Max V. And Jett Reynolds were pretty close on their Superminis. It looks like the 65 class winner would have won the women’s race. It’s pretty interesting comparing classes. I’m sure the Pro’s would be a few seconds quicker than The 250 Pro Sport riders.
inthebadboycorner 6/6/2019 8:11pm
6/6/2019 8:11pm
So after all this I am no the wiser, seams like no one else is a real mid pack c grade rider like me.

So I will take another guess at 4.30 minute lap time and be happy with that.
seventeen
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seventeen 6/7/2019 5:10pm
6/7/2019 5:10pm
inthebadboycorner wrote:
So after all this I am no the wiser, seams like no one else is a real mid pack c grade rider like me. So I...
So after all this I am no the wiser, seams like no one else is a real mid pack c grade rider like me.

So I will take another guess at 4.30 minute lap time and be happy with that.
You will never be "the wiser" participating on a Vital MX forum discussion...the two are mutually exclusive...
mimafia
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mimafia 6/7/2019 6:27pm
6/7/2019 6:27pm
I looked at some results from the Baja brawl at Baja acres in Michigan last year. The 20th place 250c rider (out of 40) fastest lap time was 15-20 seconds slower than 250 pro am winner Joey crown. 20 seconds a lap slower is a long long ways back
kijen
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kijen 6/7/2019 6:27pm
6/7/2019 6:27pm
Ruts, ruts, ruts, fast guys rail em....c class does'nt. Bet a bunch of c class guys will clear most of the jumps.
drt410
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drt410 6/7/2019 6:34pm
6/7/2019 6:34pm
How fast is fast?

Fast is a lot more fast than slow and a little bit more fast than quick. Its 100% faster than stopped and its slower than light speed. Its pretty fast breh..
resetjet
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resetjet 6/7/2019 8:29pm
6/7/2019 8:29pm
bbhMoto wrote:
What surprises me is how the hell the 250's ran faster on such a power hungry track?
1st moto
- JCooper 2.07.3.
- KenR 2.10.5.
Seriously??
Track deterioration
S.A. Weave
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S.A. Weave 6/7/2019 10:41pm
6/7/2019 10:41pm
I'm a 53 year old vet c rider, I typically carry a small Garmin GPS in the pocket of my Klim pants, I average between 25-29mph on every track I've ridden on every bike from a 125 to a 450. Years ago, when Chris Alldredge started on big bikes I was 28 seconds a lap slower than him on our local track, he did 1:48 laps.
Just south of Paradise... 6/7/2019 11:08pm
6/7/2019 11:08pm
inthebadboycorner wrote:
So after all this I am no the wiser, seams like no one else is a real mid pack c grade rider like me. So I...
So after all this I am no the wiser, seams like no one else is a real mid pack c grade rider like me.

So I will take another guess at 4.30 minute lap time and be happy with that.
No, not 4:30. Under 3 minutes I would say. I don't race anymore, but when we were on our way to Red Bud last October we rode at Thunder Valley. On my 2005 RM 250 I was running 2:45 to 2:50 range on honestly the identical track layout they had for the 2018 national (same exact jumps, sections of the track, etc.). My 11 and 13 year olds were in the 2:40ish range on 85s. I think the lap times at the 2018 national were in the 2:10 range for the front runners?? Of course it was harder packed and much smoother, with only moderate ruts, which helped quite a bit no doubt. I am not particularly fast by any means, only ride about 1 hour or so a month anymore (I would guess I would be in the "novice" range). I spend WAY more time working on our track at home then I do riding it.

The old Suzuki could not even clear all of the jumps, at least not with me on it! The triple step up before the finish line and the uphill step up after the sand rollers were just not possible no matter what I did leading up to it. Of course it might have helped if I tried to do anything with the jetting, I don't recall even bothering to adjust the air screw. Tongue Still, to ride a national track for $20 is a steal (and I think they are open all day, not the 9 to 2pm deal). A dude riding a YZ 250 had no problem clearing everything, but he was a little guy, a lot better than me, and his bike was dialed!

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