Gate malfunction?

jbrown15
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5/28/2019 3:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2019 3:55pm
RJ Hampshire: “Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The...
RJ Hampshire:

“Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The whole first lap I was expecting a red flag, and I was not happy that it didn’t come out."

Colt Nichols:

"At the start of the second moto, the gate flinched and a bunch of us ran into it and I just started way too far back. "

Huh. WTF do they know anyway? Not like they are pros or something. Oh wait......
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged he would have a chance at a better second start. Instead he did the opposite and when he realized it wasn’t red flagged he was pissed because he rode the first lap half assed thinking it would be restarted.

He really should be upset with himself.
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JM485
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5/28/2019 3:58pm
RJ Hampshire: “Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The...
RJ Hampshire:

“Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The whole first lap I was expecting a red flag, and I was not happy that it didn’t come out."

Colt Nichols:

"At the start of the second moto, the gate flinched and a bunch of us ran into it and I just started way too far back. "

Huh. WTF do they know anyway? Not like they are pros or something. Oh wait......
jbrown15 wrote:
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged...
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged he would have a chance at a better second start. Instead he did the opposite and when he realized it wasn’t red flagged he was pissed because he rode the first lap half assed thinking it would be restarted.

He really should be upset with himself.
Can you point me to where he said he just cruised the first lap, I must have missed that part. . ,
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peelout
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5/28/2019 4:06pm
RJ Hampshire: “Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The...
RJ Hampshire:

“Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The whole first lap I was expecting a red flag, and I was not happy that it didn’t come out."

Colt Nichols:

"At the start of the second moto, the gate flinched and a bunch of us ran into it and I just started way too far back. "

Huh. WTF do they know anyway? Not like they are pros or something. Oh wait......
jbrown15 wrote:
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged...
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged he would have a chance at a better second start. Instead he did the opposite and when he realized it wasn’t red flagged he was pissed because he rode the first lap half assed thinking it would be restarted.

He really should be upset with himself.
JM485 wrote:
Can you point me to where he said he just cruised the first lap, I must have missed that part. . ,
you can tell he didn't say it because of the way he didn't say it
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mxridr
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5/28/2019 4:48pm
I skimmed through the comments, but saw the Gopro video and it definitely flinched. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/2374a517a477b75f71c9637c2128f2e3.gif[/img]
I skimmed through the comments, but saw the Gopro video and it definitely flinched.

kNewc wrote:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/kUZBcrq.gif[/img] Here's another GIF at .25 speed. Pretty tough to see after uploading it to the site I'll need to make this higher quality I guess...

Here's another GIF at .25 speed. Pretty tough to see after uploading it to the site I'll need to make this higher quality I guess. Oh well lol
forget the flinch, look at Justins gate to the right of Adam - it drops and hits the ground *before* Adams does.
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4

The Shop

Texas Built
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5/28/2019 4:51pm
Startgate Gate
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Texas Built
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5/28/2019 4:54pm
JM485 wrote:
Can you point me to where he said he just cruised the first lap, I must have missed that part. . ,
AC was actually the one who said he cruised the first lap expecting a red flag, then was like "Oh crap I gotta get going" when he saw the green flag.
Texas Built
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5/28/2019 4:57pm
mxridr wrote:
forget the flinch, look at Justins gate to the right of Adam - it drops and hits the ground *before* Adams does.
Adams did not drop because he had his wheel on it. Why everything have to be a conspiracy?
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jbrown15
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5/28/2019 5:56pm
RJ Hampshire: “Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The...
RJ Hampshire:

“Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The whole first lap I was expecting a red flag, and I was not happy that it didn’t come out."

Colt Nichols:

"At the start of the second moto, the gate flinched and a bunch of us ran into it and I just started way too far back. "

Huh. WTF do they know anyway? Not like they are pros or something. Oh wait......
jbrown15 wrote:
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged...
He’s not happy because he made an assumption, one that cost him positions. He should have charged the first lap and if it was red flagged he would have a chance at a better second start. Instead he did the opposite and when he realized it wasn’t red flagged he was pissed because he rode the first lap half assed thinking it would be restarted.

He really should be upset with himself.
JM485 wrote:
Can you point me to where he said he just cruised the first lap, I must have missed that part. . ,
It was talked about on the PulpMX podcast last night. Go have a listen for yourself.
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neysbo
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5/28/2019 6:07pm
Well, after reading all this and seeing the videos it does seem the gate flinched prior to any riders hitting it. My guess is the guy in the doghouse had his foot on the pedal and did a little double pump that caused the flinch as I have seen that plenty at local races. At the end of the day it did not seem to affect the results.
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tcallahan707
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5/28/2019 6:45pm
DC wrote:
I was traveling yesterday and my computer and phone were not syncing. Here is a video I actually shot on my phone of the second 250...
I was traveling yesterday and my computer and phone were not syncing. Here is a video I actually shot on my phone of the second 250 moto start. You will see three riders on the left side of the starter's box, spots 4, 6 and 7 to the left, the opposite side as AC, Cooper and Chase to the right of the box, all hit the gate, which was held a tick longer than usual. That caused the "flinch" of the main axle that the gate works on, and the closer you were to them, the more it shook. It was not a gate malfunction--the gate didn't drop--but it was a couple riders going early, hitting the gate and causing a ripple effect and rapid reactions....

https://www.youtube.com/embed/VDPA2MpVgR0

I think the referees made the right call in continuing the race.

DC
Racer X
I appreciate that you take the time to respond. It's quality customer service. I also appreciate the fact that you guys did what you could to suss out the situation in the moment.

With that being said, I slowed down that video and really don't see Chase reacting AFTER the guy on the outside hits the gate. It appears to be at the same time, as if they reacted to the gate flinching. The same gate flinching that happened in the 125 race.

I understand it's impossible to get things 100% in a time crunch and I wasn't on the line so I'm not going to go full Vitard on you. Thank you for doing what you could in the moment to make the best call possible, even if in hindsight, we realize it wasn't the correct one.

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kkawboy14
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5/28/2019 6:51pm
RJ Hampshire: “Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The...
RJ Hampshire:

“Second moto the gate flinched so a few of us hit the gate. One hundred percent, that race should have been red flagged. The whole first lap I was expecting a red flag, and I was not happy that it didn’t come out."

Colt Nichols:

"At the start of the second moto, the gate flinched and a bunch of us ran into it and I just started way too far back. "

Huh. WTF do they know anyway? Not like they are pros or something. Oh wait......
It flinched! Everyone agrees!

The dispute is: when did it flinch and Why?
Fonzarelli
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5/28/2019 7:12pm
If a rider ramming the gate means a restart, I'd be trying to guess at the gate drop every moto. If I guess wrong I hit it and get a restart, if I guess right I get a head start on everyone else.
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mxridr
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5/29/2019 4:42am
mxridr wrote:
forget the flinch, look at Justins gate to the right of Adam - it drops and hits the ground *before* Adams does.
Adams did not drop because he had his wheel on it. Why everything have to be a conspiracy?
on second viewing, you’re right - Adams tire is holding it up until he backs off, then it drops, my bad
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blockhead17
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5/29/2019 5:17am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 5:18am
But with the gif you can see the gate did flinch before anyone hit it.. I definitely noticed it in the 125 GoPro video
But at normal speed I didn’t see a damn thing haha
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DC
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5/29/2019 5:46am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 5:49am
I skimmed through the comments, but saw the Gopro video and it definitely flinched. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/2374a517a477b75f71c9637c2128f2e3.gif[/img]
I skimmed through the comments, but saw the Gopro video and it definitely flinched.

kNewc wrote:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/kUZBcrq.gif[/img] Here's another GIF at .25 speed. Pretty tough to see after uploading it to the site I'll need to make this higher quality I guess...

Here's another GIF at .25 speed. Pretty tough to see after uploading it to the site I'll need to make this higher quality I guess. Oh well lol
mxridr wrote:
forget the flinch, look at Justins gate to the right of Adam - it drops and hits the ground *before* Adams does.
That's because Adam's front wheel is in the gate...

There is nothing we can do about a rider jumping early and hitting the gate, causing it to reverberate. That's what a backwards falling gate is meant to do: keep everyone behind it until it hits the ground. If they red-flagged every start where one of the 40 went early and bumped the gate, it would become the strategy -- have your whole team count to 4 and pin it. If they time it right, holeshots. If they go early and hit the gate, restarts. And then repeat, and repeat.

It's like the old dirt track strategy of falling in the first turn when you don't get a good start. Red flag and try again.

The gate bar moved because a couple of guys nearby hit it, but it dropped evenly for everyone. I don't know what else we can do to have a cleaner start and not get caught in an endless loop of red flags because guys will guess and ultimately go early, which is what started this whole thing on Saturday.

One other thing: the referees on the gate do not have the luxury of hi-def, slow-motion helmet cam footage from every rider and endless replays from until after the fact. They have one look from the sides and front to decide within 1:45 (in the case of Pala) for the race to either go on or stop it.

In this case, I feel for RJ and Chase and others in getting a bad start, but I believe the three officials all made the right call in allowing the race go on.

DC
Racer X
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peelout
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5/29/2019 8:11am
can't believe nobody is talking about the topless chick in the first 45 seconds of the video
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Casting
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5/29/2019 8:21am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 8:22am
The gate flinched before any rider made contact. Officials didn't have access to videos so I understand why they didn't restart the race, but that was a gate malfunction. No question about it.

If you analyze the video frame by frame you can see the gate twitch and drop a few millimeters before any rider advanced forward to make contact with the gate. If you don't think these highly attuned athletes focusing on a gate would not react to that, then you probably don't know very much about rider mindset on the gate.

RJ should have been changing, but the officials should have analyzed the video after the gate dropped and made a decision during the first lap to re-start the race.
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kkawboy14
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5/29/2019 8:54am
How and When........focus! The flinch is uncontestable
BobPA
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5/29/2019 9:36am
Sure looks like the gate flinched in the 125 race....Bravo to those guys holding a steady clutch finger. I would have plowed into that gate like Mike Alessi into Tickle.

All I know is when I am waiting for a gate to drop, my left hand is like a hair trigger, double barrel, shit machine gun...ready to let go...
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5/29/2019 9:51am
peelout wrote:
can't believe nobody is talking about the topless chick in the first 45 seconds of the video
can't believe nobody is talking about the topless chick in the first 45 seconds of the video
Which video? I met a girl there who said she was flashing the riders by the finish line.
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Casting
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5/29/2019 10:09am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 10:10am
peelout wrote:
can't believe nobody is talking about the topless chick in the first 45 seconds of the video
can't believe nobody is talking about the topless chick in the first 45 seconds of the video
Which video? I met a girl there who said she was flashing the riders by the finish line.
Which video? I met a girl there who said she was flashing the riders by the finish line.
Sounds like a good way to cause a crash Woohoo Woohoo

Can you imagine the talking-to Marv would get from Mathilde if he crashed out of the lead at a race because some girl was flashing him? Hahaha..."Honey I try my best to focus on the track but they was so perky" lol

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5/29/2019 11:30am
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced dirt bikes before you can acknowledge the gate did in fact drop even half an inch or less which is enough for pro riders to drop the clutch.
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GrapeApe
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5/29/2019 2:09pm
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced...
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced dirt bikes before you can acknowledge the gate did in fact drop even half an inch or less which is enough for pro riders to drop the clutch.
Oh my god for the one millionth fucking time, yes the gate flinched. That is not the issue.
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oldblood
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5/29/2019 2:23pm
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced...
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced dirt bikes before you can acknowledge the gate did in fact drop even half an inch or less which is enough for pro riders to drop the clutch.
GrapeApe wrote:
Oh my god for the one millionth fucking time, yes the gate flinched. That is not the issue.
Even Barney Rubble and Fred Flinchstone can agree on that.
honda907
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5/29/2019 2:44pm
I just read the Cycle News article.

So it even "flinched" for the drop on the parade lap, according to Cooper. No wonder some of the riders thought it would be restarted. And a lot of personnel ( riders and mechanics) thought it should have been restarted, and some kinda banked on it as the first lap unfolded.

Like I said earlier in a post, there is lots of footage that will come out, and we will all know the answers to everything by the end of the week. Seems like that is happening as the week progresses. Hooray for Vital-tards!!

I watched that video that DC put up. Seems like guys 4,6, and 7 all jumped at the same time. I don't see that much, if ever, but I guess it could happen and they all jumped on their own for no reason. Seems strange, but I guess it could happen. It was stated that they dropped the gate six times after that start, so they must have had a reason to do that because someone had some doubt.

I think after reading the article, and the authors comments, we won't have this problem ever surface again. I am sure if there is any doubt, they will do what they just did and run the race.
KurtJ99
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5/29/2019 3:36pm
MXGP this weekend looked like a gate malfunction - dropped differently for different riders. Shoulda been a restart
Pala looks like a flinch, but not a malfunction, If the gate drops evenly, as DC said it was tested immediately after the start to understand if the race should be red flagged, then no grounds for restart.
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ProKawi24
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5/29/2019 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 4:57pm
OMG this has become so stupidly huge. The gate flinched just enough for a few riders out of 40 to jump the gun meanwhile the MAJORITY did not. My "old school" mentality (even though I'm only 30) says too bad - the gate didn't drop to the ground before you went so suck it. You still had 30 min + 2 laps to win the race.

ANYone who didn't go WFO that first lap thinking they might restart it just learned a valuable lesson. I would be absolutely furious if my riders excuse was "oh the gate kinda flinched so I thought they might restart the race so I just kinda cruised around". My dad would pack up the van and sell my bike if I tried to pull that shit as a kid. People are way too soft and way too fragile these days. I stayed out of this thread as long as I could but for f*ck sake....some of you blow my mind.
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crowe176
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5/29/2019 6:48pm
We need to get that flatbiller fat dude with the flashlight from the discovery channel to do all our starts.
yak651
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Fantasy
5/29/2019 6:52pm
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced...
The gate flinched. I don't know why there's even a discussion whether it didn't or not, if you have eyes and a brain and have raced dirt bikes before you can acknowledge the gate did in fact drop even half an inch or less which is enough for pro riders to drop the clutch.
GrapeApe wrote:
Oh my god for the one millionth fucking time, yes the gate flinched. That is not the issue.
It's not? DC is swearing up and down that it didn't.
haydos25
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5/29/2019 7:10pm
yak651 wrote:
It's not? DC is swearing up and down that it didn't.
If the flinch was a gate malfunction, then did it not flinch for everybody? Meaning it was actually a fair start?

Or if the flinch was caused by somebody hitting the gate on the inside, then there is no way to police that and its play on also.

Either way in my opinion it wasn't enough of an issue to justify a restart. If anybody laid up the first lap expecting a restart then that's on them. Play the referees whistle is what i was always taught,
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