MotoGP 2019

3/13/2019 11:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2019 12:28am
Crush wrote:
It's essentially creating a lot more grip under braking... they basically endo in to every corner, now their back tyre is actually efficiently contributing to braking...
It's essentially creating a lot more grip under braking... they basically endo in to every corner, now their back tyre is actually efficiently contributing to braking.

Since they have a motor advantage already, it's pretty big and I get why the other manufacturers would be pissed.... If Ducati can brake late, accelerate early and get through the turns at least as good as some of the others it's a big advantage.

I don't like the aero packages, but I do like the innovation aspect. Does that make sense?
It’s for grip under acceleration. Not braking.

The profile of the front end drops too much under braking and restricts airflow to the rear and thus the aero is ineffective under braking.

Less wheel spin during acceleration also means less unecessary damage to the tire from heat. So I guess Ducati wasnt lying after all!!! ?
3/13/2019 11:34pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2019 11:36pm
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Do you really think it creates that much more grip? Not very big airfoil surface if that's the case. Props to Ducati for being smarter than...
Do you really think it creates that much more grip? Not very big airfoil surface if that's the case. Props to Ducati for being smarter than everybody else. I'm all for innovation.
Gigi is awesome.

The rule book has a diagram that shows the areas of specific aero restriction. Everything is focused on the front of the bike.

The rule makes never even considered areo existing where Ducati went with it. So simple a loophole that it’s genius.

But the aero is illegal as the rules were written because of how the part functions.

I’ll always wonder if aero would even be illegal had Honda started it. I highly doubt it. Im no fan of the aero. But Im a lessor fan of Ducati getting picked on by the bigger mfgs who cant handle getting shown up so they gotta play the politics game.
1
3/14/2019 12:24am
ocscottie wrote:
I got an email earlier about the Ducati possibly bending the rules, they showed this pic of the bike, but what am i looking for? Bummed...
I got an email earlier about the Ducati possibly bending the rules, they showed this pic of the bike, but what am i looking for? Bummed that i havent been following MGP in like 2 years.


Look under the front of the swingarm. Black carbon fiber.

Passed regs by claiming it was a tire cooler.

Yet was used on a track where every team’s concern was keeping tire temps hot enough.

It’s caused a big stir in MotoGP. People from F1 are amused at the shock & bickering because to them this is just an average occurrence of pushing boundaries. Ducati is very much operating like a F1 team right now. I have a hard time being mad at anyone wanting to win that badly. That’s the nature of competition.
Crush
Posts
21092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
3/14/2019 12:29am
It’s for grip under acceleration. Not braking. The profile of the front end drops too much under braking and restricts airflow to the rear and thus...
It’s for grip under acceleration. Not braking.

The profile of the front end drops too much under braking and restricts airflow to the rear and thus the aero is ineffective under braking.

Less wheel spin during acceleration also means less unecessary damage to the tire from heat. So I guess Ducati wasnt lying after all!!! ?
They said on the broadcast it was for braking haha

The Shop

3/14/2019 12:50am
Brutal news. Looks like the MotoE series is done. All equipment, bikes, laptops/data... GONE.

http://bit.ly/2Tzdsj4

Early rumors/speculation of arson. Someone didnt like the idea of this series?

Im bummed. Was really looking forward to it. Some fun names were signed up to race.
Crush
Posts
21092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
3/14/2019 3:10am
Crush wrote:
They said on the broadcast it was for braking haha
Check this article out. It’s the best I’ve found at explaining it now that the dust has sorta settled.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/motogp-mutterings-201…
Yeah cool! I don't know either way, just repeating what they said on the broadcast, and they seemed like they're on the ball, but apparently not.

Fuck that's cool though, crazy how much tech is involved, really cool about being unsprung too.

My moto-geek-e-ness makes me like it but then it's also kinda in that realm where I wish it was simpler and electronics or aero weren't so important.
indy_maico
Posts
5102
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/14/2019 5:09am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2019 5:09am
ocscottie wrote:
I got an email earlier about the Ducati possibly bending the rules, they showed this pic of the bike, but what am i looking for? Bummed...
I got an email earlier about the Ducati possibly bending the rules, they showed this pic of the bike, but what am i looking for? Bummed that i havent been following MGP in like 2 years.


I think that carbon fairing hanging down from the forks is part of the package as well. It probably smooths the vortex around the spinning wheel and functions to keep the air attached to the main fairing on its way back to the airfoil device on the swingarm.
I saw this other view of the device that shows it is multi-element with slot gaps, which goes hand-in-hand that the purpose is to create downforce not as a cooling device.


1
early
Posts
9877
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
3/14/2019 5:55am
Brutal news. Looks like the MotoE series is done. All equipment, bikes, laptops/data... GONE. http://bit.ly/2Tzdsj4 Early rumors/speculation of arson. Someone didnt like the idea of this...
Brutal news. Looks like the MotoE series is done. All equipment, bikes, laptops/data... GONE.

http://bit.ly/2Tzdsj4

Early rumors/speculation of arson. Someone didnt like the idea of this series?

Im bummed. Was really looking forward to it. Some fun names were signed up to race.
Damn that's crazy. Shitty thing to do if someone really did set the fire, shitty thing to happen if it was a battery short fire.
1
XXVoid MainXX
Posts
8105
Joined
5/25/2012
Location
Schenectady, NY US
3/14/2019 7:16am
Down force pretty much anywhere would be a good thing "if" you have enough power, and the Ducati seems to have the edge on power.
3/14/2019 9:19am
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department.

Very hard to say. It’s all about finding usable pwer within the limited ECU capabilities. Ducati has been the best at this via the wings, a huge head start with the ECU software, the salad box gyro, borderline illegal IMU manipulations, and now this rear aero.

But the Honda is fucking fast on the straights this year.
indy_maico
Posts
5102
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/14/2019 12:52pm
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department. Very hard to say. It’s all about...
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department.

Very hard to say. It’s all about finding usable pwer within the limited ECU capabilities. Ducati has been the best at this via the wings, a huge head start with the ECU software, the salad box gyro, borderline illegal IMU manipulations, and now this rear aero.

But the Honda is fucking fast on the straights this year.
This is from Mat Oxley's column on Motorsportmagazine.com


JPT
Posts
7209
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cedar Falls, IA US
3/14/2019 3:45pm
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department. Very hard to say. It’s all about...
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department.

Very hard to say. It’s all about finding usable pwer within the limited ECU capabilities. Ducati has been the best at this via the wings, a huge head start with the ECU software, the salad box gyro, borderline illegal IMU manipulations, and now this rear aero.

But the Honda is fucking fast on the straights this year.
indy_maico wrote:
This is from Mat Oxley's column on Motorsportmagazine.com [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/03/14/331919/s1200_Losail.jpg[/img]
This is from Mat Oxley's column on Motorsportmagazine.com


KTM is down 1.5 mph from last year? That would be depressing.
3/14/2019 8:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2019 9:07pm
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department. Very hard to say. It’s all about...
I think for the first time in a long time, Honda might have Ducati beat in the power department.

Very hard to say. It’s all about finding usable pwer within the limited ECU capabilities. Ducati has been the best at this via the wings, a huge head start with the ECU software, the salad box gyro, borderline illegal IMU manipulations, and now this rear aero.

But the Honda is fucking fast on the straights this year.
indy_maico wrote:
This is from Mat Oxley's column on Motorsportmagazine.com [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/03/14/331919/s1200_Losail.jpg[/img]
This is from Mat Oxley's column on Motorsportmagazine.com


JPT wrote:
KTM is down 1.5 mph from last year? That would be depressing.
And you know what’s crazy? They’re probably making more power than last year.

They’ve made significant changes to the setup & development direction of the KTM based on Zarco’s feedback.

My guess is they’re having to re-figure out how to get that power to the ground. Getting the ECU & chassis to work with the engine & tires is the struggle.
1
PalerBlue
Posts
719
Joined
3/28/2014
Location
Essex GB
3/16/2019 5:50am
IMO Zarco=Hopkins, or Melandri, your pick A massively talented young guy that is just pushing too hard and not patient enough. Seems he has so much...
IMO

Zarco=Hopkins, or Melandri, your pick

A massively talented young guy that is just pushing too hard and not patient enough. Seems he has so much pressure to instantly win. I like the dude but am not convinced he is championship material in the premier class, not yet. He got his payday, hell I would have too. KTM/Red Bull has tons of resources we know, however that doesn’t mean anything in this class and does not guarantee a win. KTM are still 3 seasons away from a solid dry win and by then zarco will be old news and off to superbikes. Sad but that is the business. Glad he got paid though cheers to him for that.
Agree. Glad he got paid. It was the right move. I kinda can see the comparison you’re making. Melandri & Hopper when both joined full factory...
Agree. Glad he got paid. It was the right move.

I kinda can see the comparison you’re making. Melandri & Hopper when both joined full factory teams got paid, but didn’t exactly go to winning situations.

I wouldn’t put him in the Melandri or Hopkins category tho.

Melandri turned into a basket case. Rossi broke him mentally. Never been the same. Rossi couldnt break Zarco, that’s why Rossi blocked Zarco from getting a factory Yamaha.

And Hopkins was plenty talented, and yes impatient, but rumor was he struggled with alcohol & the pressure. Crashed too much and couldnt stay healthy. Also got screwed by the switch to 800cc. The Suzuki & Kawasaki were competitive before that. Then both teams went cheap, something KTM will not do.

Let’s wait to see if Zarco cracks and starts pushing too much / crashing.

And for all we know, KTM are planning on rewarding him by keeping him around long term if he’s willing to sacrifice during these lean years. Ducati did so with Dovi, nobody saw that coming.

Also, dont forget, he’s French. Very marketable in a important market. That should make him valuable for longer than makes sense. Kinda like Nicky Hayden towards the end.

I wouldnt write him off so easily.
Don't be surprised if Johan cracks, nor Maverick, they both have history in 125's. Johan got so demoralised at regularly being passed on the drag to the flag that he sat up and gestured to his team when he'd all but won a race and was passed by the well beaten guy who was second until then. And does nobody remember Mav's meltdown when he walked out on one of his 125 teams midway through a grand prix weekend.? He had to apologise and crawl back a few days later.
If Fabio Q. keeps up his current form, Monsieur Z. won't even be top Frenchman for too much longer......
2
3/16/2019 9:30am
PalerBlue wrote:
Don't be surprised if Johan cracks, nor Maverick, they both have history in 125's. Johan got so demoralised at regularly being passed on the drag to...
Don't be surprised if Johan cracks, nor Maverick, they both have history in 125's. Johan got so demoralised at regularly being passed on the drag to the flag that he sat up and gestured to his team when he'd all but won a race and was passed by the well beaten guy who was second until then. And does nobody remember Mav's meltdown when he walked out on one of his 125 teams midway through a grand prix weekend.? He had to apologise and crawl back a few days later.
If Fabio Q. keeps up his current form, Monsieur Z. won't even be top Frenchman for too much longer......
Good point regarding Fabio.

KTM cut their margin of loss from 30 seconds (in 2018) to 12 at Qatar this year.

That is such a massive jump in performance. It’s hard to see the gains Aprilia & KTM are making relative to their competition/results but the gains are there and quite impressive.

Think about that... Dovi was 2 seconds slower to the finish line this year. KTM was 18 seconds faster.

We shouldnt worry about either backmarker imo. It just takes time.
ocscottie
Posts
69092
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Redding, CA US
3/18/2019 1:55pm
indy_maico wrote:
I think that carbon fairing hanging down from the forks is part of the package as well. It probably smooths the vortex around the spinning wheel...
I think that carbon fairing hanging down from the forks is part of the package as well. It probably smooths the vortex around the spinning wheel and functions to keep the air attached to the main fairing on its way back to the airfoil device on the swingarm.
I saw this other view of the device that shows it is multi-element with slot gaps, which goes hand-in-hand that the purpose is to create downforce not as a cooling device.


This just popped up in my youtube feed

https://youtu.be/cJa23qVMVEQ
3/18/2019 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2019 9:59pm
There’s more to the Ducati / Aero / Protest saga...

Yamaha ran a rain deflector last year

Aprilia saw it and actually were the first to try to get approval for rear swingarm aero. They were denied permission by the FIM. And a series of letters were sent out to the teams warning them & clarifying the aero rules. Explicitly forbidding rear swingarm aero.

Ducati waited. Then basically stole the idea from Aprilia, and when they presented their part to the FIM, they didnt ask for permission, they just lied about the purpose/function of the part. And as I explained before, the FIM simply bought it and this this mess ensued.

This explains why Aprilia is so angry right now.
early
Posts
9877
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
3/18/2019 9:44pm
There’s more to the Ducati / Aero / Protest saga... Yamaha ran a rain deflector last year Aprilia saw it and actually were the first to...
There’s more to the Ducati / Aero / Protest saga...

Yamaha ran a rain deflector last year

Aprilia saw it and actually were the first to try to get approval for rear swingarm aero. They were denied permission by the FIM. And a series of letters were sent out to the teams warning them & clarifying the aero rules. Explicitly forbidding rear swingarm aero.

Ducati waited. Then basically stole the idea from Aprilia, and when they presented their part to the FIM, they didnt ask for permission, they just lied about the purpose/function of the part. And as I explained before, the FIM simply bought it and this this mess ensued.

This explains why Aprilia is so angry right now.
Since there was a previous precedent what are the chances it's more that a slap on the wrist for Ducati?
3/18/2019 10:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2019 10:08pm
early wrote:
Since there was a previous precedent what are the chances it's more that a slap on the wrist for Ducati?
It certainly gives the FIM the ability to say that Ducati was plenty warned.

But at the end of the day, the FIM still approved the part. I dont see how they arent ultimately responsible.... UNLESS they can somehow prove that Ducati knew they were lying.

Ducati has to turn over their data & R&D now that this matter has been escalated in the appeals process.

Proving the part provides aero will be easy. Proving Ducati knew that could be harder. Exposing Ducati’s data on the matter would be drama.

Gigi might’ve pushed things too far this time.

My guess on how it olays out? Ducati agrees to stop using the parts as a plea deal. And everyone lets it go. This story isn’t good for the whole of the sport imo.
XXVoid MainXX
Posts
8105
Joined
5/25/2012
Location
Schenectady, NY US
3/19/2019 9:58am
Oh great, now we're going to see "tire coolers" on all the bikes. Sad
JPT
Posts
7209
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cedar Falls, IA US
3/19/2019 8:01pm
Saw an article heading saying that Pit gave Zarco hell for his attitude. Tried to read the whole article but it wasn't in English.
3/19/2019 9:08pm
JPT wrote:
Saw an article heading saying that Pit gave Zarco hell for his attitude. Tried to read the whole article but it wasn't in English.
Link?
JPT
Posts
7209
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cedar Falls, IA US
3/20/2019 7:29am
JPT wrote:
Saw an article heading saying that Pit gave Zarco hell for his attitude. Tried to read the whole article but it wasn't in English.
Link?
All I saw was like a headline, now I can't find it. Was hoping maybe someone else had seen it was in English.
3/20/2019 3:19pm
JPT wrote:
Saw an article heading saying that Pit gave Zarco hell for his attitude. Tried to read the whole article but it wasn't in English.
Link?
JPT wrote:
All I saw was like a headline, now I can't find it. Was hoping maybe someone else had seen it was in English.
Found it...

http://m.speedweek.com/motogp/news/140447/Pit-Beirer-(KTM)-Johann-Zarco…

Pit calls out Zarco for not adapting to the bike. Zarco is demanding they change the bike into a Yamaha.

It translated to a attitude problem but in reality what Pit was saying was it’s a philosophy issue.

The KTM is making huge strides. And Pit wants his star rider to meet him in the middle. Not a unreasonable request.

SojCZE
Posts
23
Joined
3/19/2019
Location
CZ
3/27/2019 5:13am
You can be cooling rear tyre. You just can't be gaining any additional downforce by bending the airflow upwards...

It is like saying you can be drinking and driving. You just can't be swallowing it.
3/29/2019 10:57pm
You know what, I totally missed the most obvious part about this aero protest debacle....

If the solution was the FIM admitting they screwed up and banning the part, Im a moron for ever expecting the FIM to fall on the sword.

The answer was so simple all along.

And now the rumor is multiple other teams have tried to get their rear swingarm aero approved and have been denied this week. What a shitshow. I expect Yamaha, Honda, and Aprilia to have them on their bikes very soon anyways.


On to free practice... the Aprilias and KTMs continue to show improvement. I love the underdogs so naturally Im interested in their results. Especially since Zarco & Iannone are two of my favorites.

I cant wait for practice and qualifying tomorrow. Everyone is on their game.
1

Post a reply to: MotoGP 2019

The Latest