Breaking News - BRP Buys Alta Motors

ns503
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2/21/2019 9:21am
ML512 wrote:
I’m sure BRP wants the technology for SXS, quad and snowmobile applications. A fairly silent running cross country sled could be a bit hit national parks...
I’m sure BRP wants the technology for SXS, quad and snowmobile applications. A fairly silent running cross country sled could be a bit hit national parks you can ride through in the winter and stuff like that.

To look at it simply, I can’t see BRP directly starting up the motorcycle side of it as the demand and potential clientele is probably too low for their usual model lines.
They kind of already have that market cornered (silent park sled) with their 4 stroke ACE models.

Under current regulations, that is. If those change, who knows.
Kstud756
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2/21/2019 9:45am
The wording seems to indicate that they have completed an arm's length purchase which will allow them access to the intellectual property to the degree to recreate tooling and ultimately produce the bike in it's entirety without opening up themselves to be pursued by any of Alta's former creditors if they so choose to.

It's likely that they have the desire to use the technology (How cool would it be to make an electric kids quad he/she could ride in a neighborhood backyard) however it's common in business purchases that come with a high volume of debt related to warehouse inventory that someone would avoid purchasing the inventory or tooling as it would likely open them up to be approached by creditors about assumed liability of the debt since the new owner now possesses the indebted inventory/tooling.

One common move is for a company to purchase all the intellectual assets as a stand alone deal, then sit back and wait for the fixed assets (tooling, machinery, parts inventory, and branding displays) to be auctioned off as they were rendered valueless and useless at that point given that BRP now owns the branding and intellectual rights preventing someone for using them without permission.

In an everyday example that I've seen this used is that if a golf course is going bankrupt, someone goes to the owner and buys the club house and/or parking lot prior to foreclosure proceedings. Then when it comes time for the bank to foreclose and auction things off, the same buyer of the club house can buy the course for pennies on the dollar because the value of the holes and fairways plummeted the day he bought the clubhouse. The clubhouse is the intellectual property, the course is the tooling in this case.
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77Moto
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2/21/2019 9:53am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 9:56am
Holigan wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/02/21/326879/s1200_20190115_170840.jpg[/img] Just sell bolt in electric motors and I am ready!


Just sell bolt in electric motors and I am ready!

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77Moto
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2/21/2019 10:13am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 10:18am
barnett468 wrote:
The molds to produce the alta are available, so all they really need to do if they want to produce a can am electric bike is...
The molds to produce the alta are available, so all they really need to do if they want to produce a can am electric bike is make the alta orange and put can am stickers on it. it seems like the alta was a great all around bike that needed very little refining, so it would be illogical to redesign an entirely new bike just to use the alta drive parts in.

Maybe they should also hire "theycallmeebryan" as a development test rider.


.
77Moto wrote:
They already have snocross guys on the payroll who race pro moto. BRP is huge. Planes and trains too.
TeamGreen wrote:
Pretty sure planes and trains are via a different company these days (a sepreated company).
Bombardier Transportation and Bombardier Aerospace, all part of Bombardier parent.

BRP(Rec Products) is owned 35% by Bombardier family, 50% Bain Cap and some other entity the rest. Thats why the logo was modified.




The Shop

2/21/2019 10:23am
So they purchased the tech with no intention of production?
mxtech1 wrote:
Quite the opposite my friend. I am sure they have been considering electric powered vehicles for many years now. The challenge is that the R&D to...
Quite the opposite my friend.

I am sure they have been considering electric powered vehicles for many years now. The challenge is that the R&D to develop electric drive trains takes years and costs the company a fortune. A Company like BRP (or Harley Davidson) just doesn't have the resources or available capital to make a legit run at it.

It doesn't take a high IQ to figure out they will be years ahead and save millions upon millions if they buy out Alta as opposed to developing their own tech

I wouldn't be surprised if it only takes BRP a few years to integrate the Alta tech/products into a production model. I imagine there would be a massive market for electric snowmobiles.
"I imagine there would be a massive market for electric snowmobiles."

They better start working on battery tech if that's the case. I don't see electric power being viable for the snowmobile market whatsoever.
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Adam43
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2/21/2019 10:33am
It's not related in the same way that Husky is to KTM.

The Bombardier family and the Quebec pension fund control BRP.
1
bvm111
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2/21/2019 10:33am
From Tommy Boy

Tommy: But the "Callahan" factory's been in my family for years, you can't just shut it down.

Zalinsky: Son, you gotta look at it from my point of view. Callahan's a premium name. That's what i'm buying. I can make the parts in one of my
factories, put 'em in a Callahan box, and sell 'em in my stores At a premium price. Why keep your factory going when all i want is the goddamned box?

Tommy: I'll tell you why. Cause there's a town involved here Callahan factory is the
only thing keeping it alive.

Zalinsky: Look, believe it or not,
i'm providing a serviceI'm thinning the corporate herd. You've seen "Daktari"?
The weaker animals always go. So the kids cry when you tie an old tiger to a Tree and shoot him...We've gotta have the strength to
tie a few factories to a tree and bash 'em with a shovel. Meanwhile, if i can grab your share of the market, put a little coin in the pocket, by being the asshole? Well, what the hell, you know what i mean?



6
YZ-MTB
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2/21/2019 10:50am
ML512 wrote:
I’m sure BRP wants the technology for SXS, quad and snowmobile applications. A fairly silent running cross country sled could be a bit hit national parks...
I’m sure BRP wants the technology for SXS, quad and snowmobile applications. A fairly silent running cross country sled could be a bit hit national parks you can ride through in the winter and stuff like that.

To look at it simply, I can’t see BRP directly starting up the motorcycle side of it as the demand and potential clientele is probably too low for their usual model lines.
TeamGreen wrote:
Honestly, I think k your looking at a statement that's more like.... "BRP assumes NO ASSOCIATION OR LIABILITY with or from Alta." The "buying certain assets"...
Honestly, I think k your looking at a statement that's more like....

"BRP assumes NO ASSOCIATION OR LIABILITY with or from Alta."

The "buying certain assets" is also aimed at the same type of liability protection.

Remember, Alta closed up shop owing investors, vendors and certainly "others" money and other potential legal commitments, liabilities and responsibilities. BRP is looking to aquire the ASSETTS and NOT the liabilities.

There's going to be all sorts of complicated language to protect their interests in this purchase.

I won't be surprised if we see a bike from them fairly soon....well, as soon as the lawyers are done. Laughing
My gut tells me that BRP is grabbing Alta's tech/patents with the sole intent of putting it into their other product lines, not motocross. BRP's press release mentions an electric Can Am Spyder prototypes, and a quick google search for "electric Can Am spyder" turned up an article from 2011 saying they were working on an prototype back then. Seems like acquiring Alta's tech is a way to accomplish something they haven't gotten to market (at least I didn't see an electric spyder on their website) in 8 years.

But I think your point about BRP not acquiring all of Alta's debt has to be a big part of BRP's acquisition strategy. I'm sure BRP negotiated what they were willing to pay for the tech/patents, and Alta's investor's/creditors took what they could get and split it among them. Probably nowhere near recouping what they put into Alta.

Alta's debt from R&D, and high production costs associated with their chosen production location were the likely reasons that Alta's prices were going to remain high. That limited sales and meant they weren't going to be profitable any time soon (more debt than they could ever recoup through high product prices).

While I kinda think the Red Shift is dead, I don't think all hope is lost. If BRP wanted to get an electric product to market quickly under their Can AM brand name, it seems like they could do so without the burden of all that debt that Alta had, and they could move production to one of their facilities in a cheaper location and benefit from the economies of scale of their large manufacturing capabilities. The question would be whether BRP acquired just the patents to Alta's technology, or did they also acquire the production equipment used to manufacture the Red Shift.

Motocross may not be the market that BRP is targeting ultimately, but re-starting production of the Red Shift under the Can Am brand could buy them some additional credibility in the market for producing high quality electric recreational vehicles, which would could keep them at the forefront while they adapt the Alta tech into their other products.

Question would be whether they could produce a Can AM Red Shift with lowered production costs and a price point that is more competitive with gas powered motocross bikes, and still turn enough profit to keep it going. If not, then it would just be a loss leader to get them further into the electric market until they start producing those other electric SXSs, snowmbobiles, or Can AM Spyders.

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three9zero
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2/21/2019 10:51am
This is great news....
jjavaman
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2/21/2019 10:56am
Could this mean the return of the "Black Widow"? Electric snow machines? BRP must have a money tree growing somewhere.
BRP’s money tree is the Canadian tax payer.
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jjavaman
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2/21/2019 11:02am
barnett468 wrote:
The molds to produce the alta are available, so all they really need to do if they want to produce a can am electric bike is...
The molds to produce the alta are available, so all they really need to do if they want to produce a can am electric bike is make the alta orange and put can am stickers on it. it seems like the alta was a great all around bike that needed very little refining, so it would be illogical to redesign an entirely new bike just to use the alta drive parts in.

Maybe they should also hire "theycallmeebryan" as a development test rider.


.
77Moto wrote:
They already have snocross guys on the payroll who race pro moto. BRP is huge. Planes and trains too.
ns503 wrote:
BRP has nothing to do with planes & trains.
They made the rapid transit trains for B.C. I believe.
ns503
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2/21/2019 11:04am
Why can't people grasp that BRP is NOT the company Bombardier that makes trains and planes?
3
-MAVERICK-
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2/21/2019 11:09am
ns503 wrote:
Why can't people grasp that BRP is NOT the company Bombardier that makes trains and planes?
Because...Vital.
1
PRM31
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Fantasy
2/21/2019 11:22am
Not holding my breath for an orange Jimmy Ellis edition electric MX bike.

I still think tracks in, or very near, urban areas and running electric bikes could give the sport a boost.
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Adam43
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2/21/2019 11:24am
ns503 wrote:
Why can't people grasp that BRP is NOT the company Bombardier that makes trains and planes?
They are not as separate as you think. They WERE Bombardier for decades, spun off in 2003, with a significant ownership stake retained by the Bombardier family.
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1
2/21/2019 11:31am
No one seems to think it's possible for BRP to license this technology back to a more established motorcycle or even bicycle manufacturer??

1
2/21/2019 11:31am
maybe just wishful thinking, but i'd interpreted the wording as a way to, if legally possible, separate themselves from future suits of alta, liability, hidden debts etc. probably way off.
TeamGreen
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2/21/2019 11:35am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 12:15pm
77Moto wrote:
They already have snocross guys on the payroll who race pro moto. BRP is huge. Planes and trains too.
TeamGreen wrote:
Pretty sure planes and trains are via a different company these days (a sepreated company).
77Moto wrote:
Bombardier Transportation and Bombardier Aerospace, all part of Bombardier parent. BRP(Rec Products) is owned 35% by Bombardier family, 50% Bain Cap and some other entity the...
Bombardier Transportation and Bombardier Aerospace, all part of Bombardier parent.

BRP(Rec Products) is owned 35% by Bombardier family, 50% Bain Cap and some other entity the rest. Thats why the logo was modified.




Baxk in '03' BRP was sold off to Bain & the Bombardier family got that 35% in the deal. Bain runs the show and it's an entirley different company.
It's no longer part of Bombardier Inc.
This was all picked apart thoroughly during Boeing's little tantrum about Bombardier Aero teaming up with Airbus (Boeing filed with the US Trade Comm & lost...decision made in 2018).
MotoMan12345
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2/21/2019 11:36am
die electric bikes die Smile
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BikeGuy321
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2/21/2019 11:39am
Good news for someone who wants an electric work quad. Slim chance they make a dual sport,but highly unlikely they make an offroad bike unless gas engines get banned for OHV use. Alta already proved that a a new player in the MX world selling for top dollar aint gonna make it when leftover Suzukis sell for half as much.
JM485
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2/21/2019 12:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 4:19pm
JM485 wrote:
Lame, I was really hoping the new buyers would want to start things back up again. Guess it’s all officially over now??.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Lame? How? I see it differently. BRP - Billion dollar corporation - Already established and sold in over 100 countries - Massive amounts of resources ($...
Lame? How?

I see it differently.

BRP

- Billion dollar corporation
- Already established and sold in over 100 countries
- Massive amounts of resources ($, engineers, designers, etc.)
- Already in the electric market
- Already own manufacturing plants

Sure as hell beats Alta being bought by some other company that needs to start all of those things from scratch.

And who's to say they don't already have bikes in development. They had/tested one several years ago but nothing came of it.

Owning Rotax they can easily start producing bikes. The sleds already come with great components (KYB shocks, Brambo brakes). Having both gas and electric models to offer their customers only makes sense.
You said it yourself, Billion dollar Corp. What made Alta unique was the team they had and their soul focus on building motorcycles, which allowed them to do unique projects and have a very open dialogue with their customers. Even if they did decide to build a bike (I highly doubt it based on the wording of that release), it’s not going to be what it once was.

Edit: I love how I'm getting down voted for this, go talk to anyone from the company and let them tell you how stoked they are about this deal. . . It fucking sucks, that's all there is to it.
2
ns503
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2/21/2019 1:21pm
ns503 wrote:
Why can't people grasp that BRP is NOT the company Bombardier that makes trains and planes?
Adam43 wrote:
They are not as separate as you think. They WERE Bombardier for decades, spun off in 2003, with a significant ownership stake retained by the Bombardier...
They are not as separate as you think. They WERE Bombardier for decades, spun off in 2003, with a significant ownership stake retained by the Bombardier family.
They are totally different separate companies. And BRP does not make trains or planes.

Facts.
1
Natester551v
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2/21/2019 1:21pm
bvm111 wrote:
From Tommy Boy Tommy: But the "Callahan" factory's been in my family for years, you can't just shut it down. Zalinsky: Son, you gotta look at...
From Tommy Boy

Tommy: But the "Callahan" factory's been in my family for years, you can't just shut it down.

Zalinsky: Son, you gotta look at it from my point of view. Callahan's a premium name. That's what i'm buying. I can make the parts in one of my
factories, put 'em in a Callahan box, and sell 'em in my stores At a premium price. Why keep your factory going when all i want is the goddamned box?

Tommy: I'll tell you why. Cause there's a town involved here Callahan factory is the
only thing keeping it alive.

Zalinsky: Look, believe it or not,
i'm providing a serviceI'm thinning the corporate herd. You've seen "Daktari"?
The weaker animals always go. So the kids cry when you tie an old tiger to a Tree and shoot him...We've gotta have the strength to
tie a few factories to a tree and bash 'em with a shovel. Meanwhile, if i can grab your share of the market, put a little coin in the pocket, by being the asshole? Well, what the hell, you know what i mean?



Lol..."I make car parts for the American working man, because that's what I am"....
2/21/2019 1:45pm
Could this mean the return of the "Black Widow"? Electric snow machines? BRP must have a money tree growing somewhere.
jjavaman wrote:
BRP’s money tree is the Canadian tax payer.
And BRP thanked them by moving most of the manufacturing to Mexico.
1
2/21/2019 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 1:51pm
ns503 wrote:
Why can't people grasp that BRP is NOT the company Bombardier that makes trains and planes?
Adam43 wrote:
They are not as separate as you think. They WERE Bombardier for decades, spun off in 2003, with a significant ownership stake retained by the Bombardier...
They are not as separate as you think. They WERE Bombardier for decades, spun off in 2003, with a significant ownership stake retained by the Bombardier family.
ns503 wrote:
They are totally different separate companies. And BRP does not make trains or planes.

Facts.
Sometimes this place is so frustrating. Particularly when it has anything to do with the industry or economics of Powersports in general.
Oh, and by the way Bombardier is pronounced like "Bombardeea" not "Bombadeer". God have mercy on us.
2
Alex.434
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2/21/2019 2:26pm
I'm so fucking disgusted I can't even think straight. What a sad state of affairs.

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drt410
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2/21/2019 4:00pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 4:02pm
Yea no interest in restarting Alta just means, no interest in restarting Alta. Doesn't mean they have no interest in creating an electric motorcycle or other products. They most likely bought the intellectual property so they can make their own products. Unfortunately that probably doesnt mean electric motorcycles, but thats fine KTM already has their own and they would most likely be the company to produce something that can be successful long term and push the envelope. Them or the Japanese companies.

Tbh Id much rather have it from them, not because I want mega billionaire companies controlling this, but because they will survive. This means advancing tech, it entering the mainstream, and no going out of business so you can keep getting parts. The best case scenario is that this can take off, which will mean in the future people will be able to ride wherever they want, which will benefit everyone.
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kkawboy14
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2/21/2019 4:43pm
Electric snow mobiles and electric boats?
1
MXMattii
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BE
2/21/2019 4:48pm
drt410 wrote:
Yea no interest in restarting Alta just means, no interest in restarting Alta. Doesn't mean they have no interest in creating an electric motorcycle or other...
Yea no interest in restarting Alta just means, no interest in restarting Alta. Doesn't mean they have no interest in creating an electric motorcycle or other products. They most likely bought the intellectual property so they can make their own products. Unfortunately that probably doesnt mean electric motorcycles, but thats fine KTM already has their own and they would most likely be the company to produce something that can be successful long term and push the envelope. Them or the Japanese companies.

Tbh Id much rather have it from them, not because I want mega billionaire companies controlling this, but because they will survive. This means advancing tech, it entering the mainstream, and no going out of business so you can keep getting parts. The best case scenario is that this can take off, which will mean in the future people will be able to ride wherever they want, which will benefit everyone.
The Chinese are pretty successful with electric bikes too. Just saying. Go on AliBaba and you can buy KTM knockoff frames who are already going full electric and seems to be that they aren't too bad for kids who wanna step into the sport.
1
ns503
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2/21/2019 5:01pm
I really cant see an electric sled being all that successful. Power to weight is big in the snow, and sleds are pretty high HP. Then there's range...

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