Ouch. FIM/Youthstream release

keinz
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keinz 10/17/2018 4:41am
10/17/2018 4:41am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2018 4:54am
It's OK from my side.How many topics in vital we had that demands to bring back 2 strokes Be my queat. Now is the proper championship for 2T. Some guys have to realise that after MX there is another world existing. If you are like 27 years old and not succeeded in the world scene of MX, don't sandbag in the EMX class. Give to the young guns a chance, and better find yourself a proper job. And if MX is your passion, there are is still a lot of nationals to competit.To a lot of guys its a time to face with the real world without MX and find yourself a proper jobe. It's harsh, but it's true
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Question
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Question 10/17/2018 5:13am
10/17/2018 5:13am
MXMattii wrote:
Teams already signed riders +23 years old to ride EMX250, then they come with shit like this. Those people are incompatible to lead such a big...
Teams already signed riders +23 years old to ride EMX250, then they come with shit like this. Those people are incompatible to lead such a big organization.
It is tiny organization (well under 50M per year so basically the closest supermarket nearby is making about the same), but yeah it for sure doesn't make it look like a big one Smile
early
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early 10/17/2018 5:46am
10/17/2018 5:46am
keinz wrote:
It's OK from my side.How many topics in vital we had that demands to bring back 2 strokes Be my queat. Now is the proper championship...
It's OK from my side.How many topics in vital we had that demands to bring back 2 strokes Be my queat. Now is the proper championship for 2T. Some guys have to realise that after MX there is another world existing. If you are like 27 years old and not succeeded in the world scene of MX, don't sandbag in the EMX class. Give to the young guns a chance, and better find yourself a proper job. And if MX is your passion, there are is still a lot of nationals to competit.To a lot of guys its a time to face with the real world without MX and find yourself a proper jobe. It's harsh, but it's true
How healthy can a sport be when there are only about 20 professionals in Europe over the age of 23?
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themrtoad
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themrtoad 10/17/2018 7:01am
10/17/2018 7:01am
If this means they will remove the U23 in MX2 it's a step forward. If that rule remains it's a step back with terrible timing.

I hope a lot of teams and media puts pressure on them to remove the U23 in MX2.

And for gods sake let 250 twostrokes race in the MX2-class!

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keinz
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keinz 10/17/2018 7:09am
10/17/2018 7:09am
early wrote:
How healthy can a sport be when there are only about 20 professionals in Europe over the age of 23?
Look at the last years MXDN resuluts
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early
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early 10/17/2018 7:15am
10/17/2018 7:15am
keinz wrote:
Look at the last years MXDN resuluts
That's not the point I was making. The stated goal is to Foster young talent but the outcome is less opportunity to have a career after the age of 23. How many paid full-time rides are there in mxgp and emx300/2t? I assume guys aren't really making much of a living just racing the individual national championships, correct?
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DeStouwer
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DeStouwer 10/17/2018 7:16am
10/17/2018 7:16am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2018 7:34am
early wrote:
How healthy can a sport be when there are only about 20 professionals in Europe over the age of 23?
keinz wrote:
Look at the last years MXDN resuluts
That has got nothing to do with it. These rules ruin the chances of many young riders all over Europe. Not the top riders who already have a seat. Topriders will always find their way. Guys who a re capable of top 8, top 10, top 15, get boycotted, simple as that.

I've read your not against this decision, well, according to me it's another step towards the downfall of motocross in Europe.

If you search for "bad managing skills" in the dictionary you'll find Youthstream
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Robgvx
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Robgvx 10/17/2018 7:31am
10/17/2018 7:31am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2018 9:03am
keinz wrote:
Look at the last years MXDN resuluts
early wrote:
That's not the point I was making. The stated goal is to Foster young talent but the outcome is less opportunity to have a career after...
That's not the point I was making. The stated goal is to Foster young talent but the outcome is less opportunity to have a career after the age of 23. How many paid full-time rides are there in mxgp and emx300/2t? I assume guys aren't really making much of a living just racing the individual national championships, correct?
Exactly. It’s a system which develops young talent very well, through to the age of 23, at which point if you’re not one of the very elite you’re fucked off to the wilderness.

More and more 450 rides are going to be bought as a result, by both current 450- riders or incoming 250 guys. More quality 450 riders also be sent packing with nowhere to race.

And where are these over-23 or ex-MXGP riders supposed to go? To a 2-stroke class in which only really three manufacturers build eligible bikes. Who's going to support, let alone pay them to race in a sideshow class?

It's stupid.

By the way, there will not, to my knowledge, be any change in the MX2 age rule.
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KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 10/17/2018 7:53am
10/17/2018 7:53am
KDXGarage wrote:
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically...
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically, they are too old for EMX250 and too slow for MXGP2, correct? EMX2t or stay home, correct?

Is EMX2t JUST two-strokes or is it 2 and 4?

How many 2018 MXGP (450 only) racers never had a factory ride at any level?

I saw one moto with about 15 or 16 on the gate twice, so how few is too few??
roninho wrote:
Well depends on you definition of ''to slow'. Marshal Weltin scored a 5th place finish in the final gp of the year. Simone Furlotti scored a...
Well depends on you definition of ''to slow'.

Marshal Weltin scored a 5th place finish in the final gp of the year.
Simone Furlotti scored a 10th place finish in the final gp of the year.

I don't think that is to slow for MX2. But they are now to old for MX2 and EMX250.
Good clarification. They are too old for both EMX250 and MXGP2, but not fast enough to get a good ride for MXGP.
a22
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a22 10/17/2018 8:19am
10/17/2018 8:19am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2018 8:21am
May as well make EMX250 and MX2 just one class really - if the age limit in both is 23! May make for a full grid also, in MX2 that is, EMX250 had more than a full grid!

Many good riders with nowhere to go- other than this new 2T Championship, may even have the likes of people like JVH in it or other top riders/ aged out riders without rides- if they can be bothered that is!

Hope it all works out- oneway or another, although not so sure myself!

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keinz
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keinz 10/17/2018 8:24am
10/17/2018 8:24am
DeStouwer wrote:
That has got nothing to do with it. These rules ruin the chances of many young riders all over Europe. Not the top riders who already...
That has got nothing to do with it. These rules ruin the chances of many young riders all over Europe. Not the top riders who already have a seat. Topriders will always find their way. Guys who a re capable of top 8, top 10, top 15, get boycotted, simple as that.

I've read your not against this decision, well, according to me it's another step towards the downfall of motocross in Europe.

If you search for "bad managing skills" in the dictionary you'll find Youthstream
These rules ruin the chances of many young riders all over Europe.
Exactly. Thats why the 23y rule is on point
es337
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es337 10/17/2018 8:34am
10/17/2018 8:34am
KirkChandler wrote:
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary. There are...
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary.

There are so many riders over 23 years old that need MXGP 450 rides that there is now a surplus of qualified riders that will now have to settle for the in demand rides.

There’s about 5 guys that will get paid (Herlings/Cairoli/Gajser/Febvre/Desaulle) the rest will have to settle for scraps, free rides and or paying to be on a team. The teams will see lower budgets because the second rider is forced to agree to a low paying spot or be out of work. They got them by the balls.

The AMA rider market has its own issues, but at least the promoters are not actively seeking ways to reduce places for riders to make money.
Rephrasing your post: if you suck at your job(i.e. are slow) then you should still get paid above market value.

Get out of here you commie.
Fearo
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Fearo 10/17/2018 8:48am
10/17/2018 8:48am
What I want to know is what the fuck Marshal Weltin is going to do.

He made a mid-season jump to F&H Kawasaki, signs a deal for EMX250 in 2019 because of the MX2 age limit, and now he isn't eligible for that anymore too.

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MxKing809 10/17/2018 10:24am
10/17/2018 10:24am
Fearo wrote:
What I want to know is what the fuck Marshal Weltin is going to do. He made a mid-season jump to F&H Kawasaki, signs a deal...
What I want to know is what the fuck Marshal Weltin is going to do.

He made a mid-season jump to F&H Kawasaki, signs a deal for EMX250 in 2019 because of the MX2 age limit, and now he isn't eligible for that anymore too.

I’m gutted for him. I hung out with him a little bit at Red Bud, and he was so stoked to have a plan in October for the following year for the first time in his career. He earned it in MX2 this year and has worked his ass off. He has the speed hands down.
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KirkChandler 10/17/2018 10:58am
10/17/2018 10:58am
KirkChandler wrote:
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary. There are...
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary.

There are so many riders over 23 years old that need MXGP 450 rides that there is now a surplus of qualified riders that will now have to settle for the in demand rides.

There’s about 5 guys that will get paid (Herlings/Cairoli/Gajser/Febvre/Desaulle) the rest will have to settle for scraps, free rides and or paying to be on a team. The teams will see lower budgets because the second rider is forced to agree to a low paying spot or be out of work. They got them by the balls.

The AMA rider market has its own issues, but at least the promoters are not actively seeking ways to reduce places for riders to make money.
es337 wrote:
Rephrasing your post: if you suck at your job(i.e. are slow) then you should still get paid above market value.

Get out of here you commie.
You didn’t comprehend my post in the slightest.

It’s a supply and demand situation for riders over 23 or that have pointed out of 250 Supercross in AMA. These advancement rules push guys out of the sport that bring fans to the races and are capable of random wins and podiums. And with Youthstream adding more rules to force a talent pool into 1 class that is already full is an artificial way to decrease the pay for the available positions on teams.

In the normal business world if there are 10 applicants for 1 job, the company has their pick to hire any 1 of the 10 people and they can low ball their salary and benefit offer to the job candidates. Because at least 1 of those 10 will take a shit offer just to have a job. In motocross there are riders that will take no salary or will literally pay the team to have a ride just so they can be a factory racer.

The A rider will always get paid (Herlings, Cairoli, Tomac, Roczen...) but the B riders will be left fighting over the scraps. I guess the solution is to be one of the 5 A riders that gets paid and not one of the other 15 best riders in the world fighting over 5-10 rides.

Or someone should start a European based series that goes to the good tracks that have been cast aside and bring some competition to YS.
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PastranaWho
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PastranaWho 10/17/2018 4:27pm
10/17/2018 4:27pm
KirkChandler wrote:
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary. There are...
This is a Brilliant move by Youthstream it devalues the rider market, making it easier for teams to not pay riders a decent salary.

There are so many riders over 23 years old that need MXGP 450 rides that there is now a surplus of qualified riders that will now have to settle for the in demand rides.

There’s about 5 guys that will get paid (Herlings/Cairoli/Gajser/Febvre/Desaulle) the rest will have to settle for scraps, free rides and or paying to be on a team. The teams will see lower budgets because the second rider is forced to agree to a low paying spot or be out of work. They got them by the balls.

The AMA rider market has its own issues, but at least the promoters are not actively seeking ways to reduce places for riders to make money.
es337 wrote:
Rephrasing your post: if you suck at your job(i.e. are slow) then you should still get paid above market value.

Get out of here you commie.
KirkChandler wrote:
You didn’t comprehend my post in the slightest. It’s a supply and demand situation for riders over 23 or that have pointed out of 250 Supercross...
You didn’t comprehend my post in the slightest.

It’s a supply and demand situation for riders over 23 or that have pointed out of 250 Supercross in AMA. These advancement rules push guys out of the sport that bring fans to the races and are capable of random wins and podiums. And with Youthstream adding more rules to force a talent pool into 1 class that is already full is an artificial way to decrease the pay for the available positions on teams.

In the normal business world if there are 10 applicants for 1 job, the company has their pick to hire any 1 of the 10 people and they can low ball their salary and benefit offer to the job candidates. Because at least 1 of those 10 will take a shit offer just to have a job. In motocross there are riders that will take no salary or will literally pay the team to have a ride just so they can be a factory racer.

The A rider will always get paid (Herlings, Cairoli, Tomac, Roczen...) but the B riders will be left fighting over the scraps. I guess the solution is to be one of the 5 A riders that gets paid and not one of the other 15 best riders in the world fighting over 5-10 rides.

Or someone should start a European based series that goes to the good tracks that have been cast aside and bring some competition to YS.
Read this post 3 times still cant comprehend shit.Shocked Tongue Woohoo
Tarz483
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Tarz483 10/17/2018 4:36pm
10/17/2018 4:36pm
PastranaWho wrote:
Why not make emx 23U and mx2 25U, so you can actually give the rider a chance to ride mx2 and improve or maybe get a...
Why not make emx 23U and mx2 25U, so you can actually give the rider a chance to ride mx2 and improve or maybe get a ride with a team. But to age out at 23 emx and mx2 is plain stupid to me. So basically if a 22 yr old wins emx title you will need to jump to the mxgp class, is that luongo dude that stupid? all i see is more young talent coming to americaWink
I agree , but I actually dont think any cc pro class should have an age limit
Maybe a guy didn't start riding until he was 15 or older ?
Not to mention Size weight, and just some ride smaller bore bikes Better. Just my opinion
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JFerry
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JFerry 10/17/2018 11:29pm
10/17/2018 11:29pm Edited Date/Time 10/17/2018 11:30pm
Very clever movement. Luongo goal is to have one running show. That's MXGP. Only the very best will get the chance.
This movement guarantees quality. Teams will focus on development of young riders.
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CalimeroFan
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CalimeroFan 10/17/2018 11:42pm
10/17/2018 11:42pm
KDXGarage wrote:
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically...
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically, they are too old for EMX250 and too slow for MXGP2, correct? EMX2t or stay home, correct?

Is EMX2t JUST two-strokes or is it 2 and 4?

How many 2018 MXGP (450 only) racers never had a factory ride at any level?

I saw one moto with about 15 or 16 on the gate twice, so how few is too few??
No you're wrong. Lot of good MX2 rider ended up in EMX250 because they reached the age of 23/24, but couldn't get a decent ride in MXGP or just didn't like riding a 450. Basically the whole top 10 of this years EMX250 would make the MX2 GP field way better.
In fact, there are riders in MX2 GP's who wouldn't make a top 20 in EMX250, some would not even qualify.
AK74
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AK74 10/17/2018 11:49pm
10/17/2018 11:49pm
JFerry wrote:
Very clever movement. Luongo goal is to have one running show. That's MXGP. Only the very best will get the chance. This movement guarantees quality. Teams...
Very clever movement. Luongo goal is to have one running show. That's MXGP. Only the very best will get the chance.
This movement guarantees quality. Teams will focus on development of young riders.
No.
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JFerry
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JFerry 10/17/2018 11:50pm
10/17/2018 11:50pm
KDXGarage wrote:
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically...
Is it safe to say that all the signed EMX250 racers who are now too old are also too slow to get an MXGP2 ride? Basically, they are too old for EMX250 and too slow for MXGP2, correct? EMX2t or stay home, correct?

Is EMX2t JUST two-strokes or is it 2 and 4?

How many 2018 MXGP (450 only) racers never had a factory ride at any level?

I saw one moto with about 15 or 16 on the gate twice, so how few is too few??
CalimeroFan wrote:
No you're wrong. Lot of good MX2 rider ended up in EMX250 because they reached the age of 23/24, but couldn't get a decent ride in...
No you're wrong. Lot of good MX2 rider ended up in EMX250 because they reached the age of 23/24, but couldn't get a decent ride in MXGP or just didn't like riding a 450. Basically the whole top 10 of this years EMX250 would make the MX2 GP field way better.
In fact, there are riders in MX2 GP's who wouldn't make a top 20 in EMX250, some would not even qualify.
The first three runners of emx250 in the year 2017, made the jump to MX2 and did not manage to finish in the top 20 of the overall results.
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JFerry 10/17/2018 11:56pm
10/17/2018 11:56pm
JFerry wrote:
Very clever movement. Luongo goal is to have one running show. That's MXGP. Only the very best will get the chance. This movement guarantees quality. Teams...
Very clever movement. Luongo goal is to have one running show. That's MXGP. Only the very best will get the chance.
This movement guarantees quality. Teams will focus on development of young riders.
AK74 wrote:
No.
No what? Again it does not have to be fair. There are 100 riders in emx125, 100 in emx250, last year the Honda emx150, etc, etc. Just the very best will make it. Talent and money. A ruthless world in search of quality. If you make the step to MX2 and don't nail it, you shouldn't get the chance to step back. That ride should go to another rider. There are national series next to the world championship.
CalimeroFan
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CalimeroFan 10/17/2018 11:59pm
10/17/2018 11:59pm
Not exactly true as Furlotti ended up 20th with missing the first few rounds. He even had a few top 10 scores.
Lessiardo had a really shitty year indeed. His best resuls came in the last race on a private bike (after being dumped by his team. Fernandez was injured most of the season.

But look at the #6 Weltin and #7 Geerts. Weltin started on the most crappy bike there is in MX2, but once on the F&H Kawasaki he was in the top 10 regularly. And Geerts ended the season as 8th place.
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JFerry 10/18/2018 12:09am
10/18/2018 12:09am
CalimeroFan wrote:
Not exactly true as Furlotti ended up 20th with missing the first few rounds. He even had a few top 10 scores. Lessiardo had a really...
Not exactly true as Furlotti ended up 20th with missing the first few rounds. He even had a few top 10 scores.
Lessiardo had a really shitty year indeed. His best resuls came in the last race on a private bike (after being dumped by his team. Fernandez was injured most of the season.

But look at the #6 Weltin and #7 Geerts. Weltin started on the most crappy bike there is in MX2, but once on the F&H Kawasaki he was in the top 10 regularly. And Geerts ended the season as 8th place.
And now Furlotti, 24 years old next season wants to step back to emx250. What's the point?.
Geerts has shown his value. And Lesiardo and Fernandez will get a second chance because they are 19.


CalimeroFan
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CalimeroFan 10/18/2018 12:26am
10/18/2018 12:26am
Yeah, what's the point with the age limit in both classes? Why can't Furlotti get a second year to try? Age limit in EMX250 is fine, but than skip the age limit in the MX2 GP's
JFerry
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JFerry 10/18/2018 12:42am
10/18/2018 12:42am
CalimeroFan wrote:
Yeah, what's the point with the age limit in both classes? Why can't Furlotti get a second year to try? Age limit in EMX250 is fine...
Yeah, what's the point with the age limit in both classes? Why can't Furlotti get a second year to try? Age limit in EMX250 is fine, but than skip the age limit in the MX2 GP's
Coz that's the strategy. One main series, MXGP. The rest, promotion. We make like it or not but that's a different discussion. Last year was Prado, this year Geerts, next year will be someone else. That's a sustainable approach. MXGP will get stronger.
Riders will need to adapt if they want a chance. Furlotti will not get a chance. What nobody wants is Mxgp rookies with 26 years old.
CalimeroFan
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CalimeroFan 10/18/2018 12:59am
10/18/2018 12:59am
Well I think it's bullshit. Don't be suprised if someone stands up and starts a new serie in the coming few years. MXGP will end up with 1 class with about 15 riders which nobody cares about anymore.

make1go
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make1go 10/18/2018 1:16am
10/18/2018 1:16am
one things fer sur, ANYTHING from ys good or bad is going to be hated on by the herds of idiots here...

all stuck limbic thinking

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DeStouwer
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DeStouwer 10/18/2018 1:43am
10/18/2018 1:43am
CalimeroFan wrote:
Yeah, what's the point with the age limit in both classes? Why can't Furlotti get a second year to try? Age limit in EMX250 is fine...
Yeah, what's the point with the age limit in both classes? Why can't Furlotti get a second year to try? Age limit in EMX250 is fine, but than skip the age limit in the MX2 GP's
JFerry wrote:
Coz that's the strategy. One main series, MXGP. The rest, promotion. We make like it or not but that's a different discussion. Last year was Prado...
Coz that's the strategy. One main series, MXGP. The rest, promotion. We make like it or not but that's a different discussion. Last year was Prado, this year Geerts, next year will be someone else. That's a sustainable approach. MXGP will get stronger.
Riders will need to adapt if they want a chance. Furlotti will not get a chance. What nobody wants is Mxgp rookies with 26 years old.
Everts made his debute in the 500cc-class when he was 28 years old. Different times, offcourse. But still.
keinz
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keinz 10/18/2018 3:29am
10/18/2018 3:29am
early wrote:
That's not the point I was making. The stated goal is to Foster young talent but the outcome is less opportunity to have a career after...
That's not the point I was making. The stated goal is to Foster young talent but the outcome is less opportunity to have a career after the age of 23. How many paid full-time rides are there in mxgp and emx300/2t? I assume guys aren't really making much of a living just racing the individual national championships, correct?
I dunno how it's nowadays, but like GB chamoionship condender salary is more or less than 80k€ per year, but this is not the point. If you are hight payd employee at some company, and you are not deliver, then one day you have to clean your desk. That's a reality my friend. What are you alll want? That every boy who drags a leg over a motrcycle must have a place in the world stage with a good salary? It's nonsence. Proffesional sport is like every job. It's a very tight in the very top

Post a reply to: Ouch. FIM/Youthstream release