If you were there, you know.

sticecube
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sticecube 10/7/2018 4:54pm
10/7/2018 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 4:57pm
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I haven't watched a GP on tv in years and the last time I did they were the ones running it I believe but I may be confused). We take a 6 week break following our final round, where as the Europeans come straight from their last race without missing a beat. The tracks are all built to the MXGP standard, taking away the individuality in a sense of the hosting nations track in particular, like for example the start at Red Bud was moved, they added a long switchback right after it, and it appeared (through some of the highlights I watched) it had a very MXGP style of prep compared to what I've seen the last few years for the national. There are rumors about how American riders are told to NOT win races during the MXGP season by the man who runs their series ( I recall an article somewhere a year or so ago that it was stated that Sanayei and Covington were threatened to be dropped from their teams if they beat the Europeans) and I'm not saying they are told not to win for the nations, but it does present an obvious bias towards anyone thats not the Americans. I will say though, that I don't believe, even if the changes did not happen, that the US would still not have won outright. I believe France is an elite team of riders, and thats obvious when you win 5 in a row. However, until the system appears to become unbiased, and the date of the event is moved closer to the conclusion of the US national series, the United States will not win at the nations UNLESS the riders involved agree to not do monster cup or other October SX style races.
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Rs444
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Rs444 10/7/2018 4:56pm
10/7/2018 4:56pm
gnarwhip wrote:
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've...
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've been a different story. Kinda like when Musquin beat Tomac at High Point this summer. Euros thrive on this stuff.
The best riders in the world should be able to go fast regardless of track conditions. If youre only the best on lets say a completly dry and well groomed hardpack track but suck in lets say deep sand, in mud or when it gets rough, are you really the best rider then?? . What makes a good motocross rider is to be well balanced and im sorry but that isnt et3. Sure there are tracks where he could go faster than anyone else but he has proven to be quite weak mentally after every race where he has gotten mud on his clutch lever etc etc and given up.
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Scrubadub
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Scrubadub 10/7/2018 4:56pm
10/7/2018 4:56pm
Scrubadub wrote:
Exactly. This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only. Imagine if there were a supercross...
Exactly.
This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only.
Imagine if there were a supercross of nations. USA would dominate. Thats why comparing ama guys vs the mxgp guys is pointless. Apple and oranges.
mattseaton90 wrote:
The whole point of the MXoN is that it’s an international event pitting nations against each other in an internationally recognised format. That being an outdoor...
The whole point of the MXoN is that it’s an international event pitting nations against each other in an internationally recognised format. That being an outdoor race based on the World Series format. The key word there is ‘World’.

Why would you want to dominate an SXoN event? That’s like being the king of your own castle, I’m not really sure what it proves? You can’t set your own standards just to make sure you come out on top, that would be anti-competitive.

You guys are absolutely world-class at American Football too, by the way. It’s just nobody else in the whole world cares.
I not sure you're getting my point.
Answer me this.. Would Tomac or other top US riders be better motocross racers then they currently are if they did not race supercross and concentrated on motocross only?

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Jbulz
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Jbulz 10/7/2018 5:03pm
10/7/2018 5:03pm
We got worked today, plain and simple. I was there, and the euros were on a different level. Hopefully they can use this loss to motivate the US guys back to the top.

The Factory KTMs must have one hell of an engine with some massive low end power. Coldenhoff was effortlessly sending Laroccos, without even having to attack the roller before it. He specifically looked super smooth and slow in the sand rollers and was barely revving the bike going through there... But he was absolutely flying. All the Factory KTM bikes looked flawless. Surprisingly quiet too.

Tomac turned his pace up in the last moto, but still wasn't able to do much with it. He didn't look good his 19 until that last moto. I think he would have done better on the 18, but hey, the choice was made. How far back he was from Roczen was a good indicator for me that he wasn't comfortable on the new bike.

Plessinger had good pace but kept hitting the deck. Don't know what else to say than that. He seemed to be having trouble getting over some of the jumps too, which was weird since that Star Yamaha is usually such a powerhouse.

Barcias bike looked like it was set up really bad all day. He almost got bucked a few times over the weekend. He framed Laroccos once and backed it down a bit after that it looked like. Looked like he's worked past the Bam Bam nickname. Lupino ran him high in Free Practice and he didn't retaliate. He also had a perfect opportunity to punt Searle after he got passed before Larcoccos leap and didn't take it. He did do a hell of a job moving guys out of the way when he was running in traffic. Aggressive but not dirty.
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Crush
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Crush 10/7/2018 5:07pm
10/7/2018 5:07pm
PVB wrote:
17 Supercross races and 12 Nationals. Nothings going to change until that does, however it won't because SX apparently is where the money is.

Scrubadub wrote:
Exactly. This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only. Imagine if there were a supercross...
Exactly.
This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only.
Imagine if there were a supercross of nations. USA would dominate. Thats why comparing ama guys vs the mxgp guys is pointless. Apple and oranges.
It was like that when USA won all the time. Track prep and single day nationals mean a different type of track. The Euro bike setup is way more compliant and long and they eat up nasty shit.
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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/7/2018 5:09pm
10/7/2018 5:09pm
flinttropicsMX wrote:
Fuck supercross
Totally agree. Time to get rid of that crap
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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 10/7/2018 5:10pm
10/7/2018 5:10pm
Bramlett321 wrote:
That was absolutely embarrassing!! Euros were just toying with our asses in qualifying yesterday....they just cruise and then lay it down on race day.
pilotdude wrote:
So free practice times mean everything since the euros had good ones, qualifying mean nothing and they were just cruising, and then really only try on...
So free practice times mean everything since the euros had good ones, qualifying mean nothing and they were just cruising, and then really only try on race day.

Ok, if you say so.
No that’s not what I said but ok If you say so !!! Douchebag
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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/7/2018 5:12pm
10/7/2018 5:12pm
TXDirt wrote:
Those who argued that Tomac was the FMOTP, well...... he wasn't even the fastest in the state of Michigan today.
Omg, this is brutal. Sooo true, but brutal
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 10/7/2018 5:35pm
10/7/2018 5:35pm
Tomac didn't go full retard. Oh well, he can always go full retard another day. Personally, I would like to see another rider with the potential of going full retard on the team. Such as El Chupacabra.
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 10/7/2018 5:47pm
10/7/2018 5:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2018 4:44am
robkinuk wrote:
Only good performance by an American at Red Bud was the girl who sang the national anthem.?? Perhaps Plessinger should have spent more time on his...
Only good performance by an American at Red Bud was the girl who sang the national anthem.?? Perhaps Plessinger should have spent more time on his bike these past 6 weeks than he did at hair dressers and painting his cowboy boots!????
Great ride by Ben Watson, Team GB robbed by Tommy Searle bike blowing up after he was riding so well.
Here we go a British man taking about Motocross. The Brithshmen are the weakest links of European Motocross. The Dutch, Belgians an Italian, some Germans, plenty of Frenchman and a Slovenian are the faces of European Motocross. You know what guys are non players on European Motocross? The guys that thump there chest the loudest about European MX, the British! A country completely non relevant on the Motocross world stage. Last year was along time ago. I suppose in about 20 some years you may podium again. If Belgium has bad luck of course. Remember both Serale and Anstie tried to make it in the states and got sent back to Europe with their tails between there legs.
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SlasherMcGee
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SlasherMcGee 10/7/2018 5:47pm
10/7/2018 5:47pm
PVB wrote:
17 Supercross races and 12 Nationals. Nothings going to change until that does, however it won't because SX apparently is where the money is.

Scrubadub wrote:
Exactly. This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only. Imagine if there were a supercross...
Exactly.
This leaves the US guys at a huge disadvantage racing against guys that train year round for motocross only.
Imagine if there were a supercross of nations. USA would dominate. Thats why comparing ama guys vs the mxgp guys is pointless. Apple and oranges.
Be careful.. You might make too much sense. The GP ass kissers want to have the cake and eat it to.
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Scrubadub
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Scrubadub 10/7/2018 5:48pm
10/7/2018 5:48pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Tomac didn't go full retard. Oh well, he can always go full retard another day. Personally, I would like to see another rider with the potential...
Tomac didn't go full retard. Oh well, he can always go full retard another day. Personally, I would like to see another rider with the potential of going full retard on the team. Such as El Chupacabra.
I like the idea of taking the top three best riders available from the 450 class. More experienced and less likely to tank it imo. I'm sure Anderson would have dropped down to ride the 250 if he was asked. Bagget as well. Mabey when DeCoster steps down they can get a team manager willing to think outside the box. Stanton possibly?
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PVB
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PVB 10/7/2018 5:49pm
10/7/2018 5:49pm
sticecube wrote:
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I...
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I haven't watched a GP on tv in years and the last time I did they were the ones running it I believe but I may be confused). We take a 6 week break following our final round, where as the Europeans come straight from their last race without missing a beat. The tracks are all built to the MXGP standard, taking away the individuality in a sense of the hosting nations track in particular, like for example the start at Red Bud was moved, they added a long switchback right after it, and it appeared (through some of the highlights I watched) it had a very MXGP style of prep compared to what I've seen the last few years for the national. There are rumors about how American riders are told to NOT win races during the MXGP season by the man who runs their series ( I recall an article somewhere a year or so ago that it was stated that Sanayei and Covington were threatened to be dropped from their teams if they beat the Europeans) and I'm not saying they are told not to win for the nations, but it does present an obvious bias towards anyone thats not the Americans. I will say though, that I don't believe, even if the changes did not happen, that the US would still not have won outright. I believe France is an elite team of riders, and thats obvious when you win 5 in a row. However, until the system appears to become unbiased, and the date of the event is moved closer to the conclusion of the US national series, the United States will not win at the nations UNLESS the riders involved agree to not do monster cup or other October SX style races.
If that were the case, it could be argued it just evens things out. The US has 330 million people to draw riders from while most of the Euro countries don't have anywhere close to that. The Netherlands has a population of 17 million and their 2 riders won it all. That would be like two riders from New York winning everything. Must be something in the water. We better hope it never becomes the EU vs USA. lol
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Crossup
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Crossup 10/7/2018 5:59pm
10/7/2018 5:59pm
Bultaco wrote:
Welcome back to the 60's and 70's of moto. Young Lackey went to Europe to get faster. Another page from back then.....Tomac can go home proud...
Welcome back to the 60's and 70's of moto. Young Lackey went to Europe to get faster. Another page from back then.....Tomac can go home proud knowing he is "first American" today.
Spot on comment. The bar has been raised in the GPS and because they're racing each other they're continuing to push the bar level up. Unfortunately the US Nationals it's not where the best mx talent pool is.
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Michael_Bowersox 10/7/2018 6:03pm
10/7/2018 6:03pm
It’s hard to deny, it looks like the MXGP riders are just faster than the US riders at the moment. A lot of things can mix up results when it comes to mud but I’m not sure a dry track would of changed the results.

Motocross is popular and lots of guys race but the costs now to race compared to say early to mid 90’s is huge. This eliminates so many guys from racing as a privateer and there aren’t enough rides available for all who need one. I think we’re left with are top riders with their factory rides. Sure there are some other smaller teams and sponsors that help some get to the races. Overall I just think so many who should be able to race as a pro just can’t afford it.

We have a lot of are pros just drop from the race seen entirely. This could be part of the problem you got the top guys setting the pace and those who can’t match that pace don’t push them to go faster instead they stop racing because they just can’t make a living at it. I don’t know how it works out financially for MXGP riders but here in the US it seems like we have a lot of guys with potential who end up without a ride and no means to support their own effort at this level.
I’m not sure if this is exactly how they seemed to have passed us up but it may be part of it.

I’d also agree SX is such a big part of are riders season that MX isn’t focused on as much. It’s basically the opposite with the MXGP riders. It looks like it may be getting to the point of the US has the fast SX riders and MXGP rules the outdoors.
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Tbteam
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Tbteam 10/7/2018 6:03pm
10/7/2018 6:03pm
Tbteam wrote:
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys...
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys didn’t wax our top guys.

In retrospect, the Herlings v. Tomac threads are now laughable. Our guys looked like they were riding like crazy people while Herlings and Hoff looked like they were literally out for a Sunday cruise.

Congrats to the rest of the world. We need to play catch up now.
pilotdude wrote:
Please explain how Tomac had a faster lap time than every GP rider except Herlings and Coldenhoff.

Since you were there and you "know."
Don’t even fucking start that bullshit. Tomac was schooled. One lap gets you what? Is there a one lap mxdn?
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motomike137
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motomike137 10/7/2018 6:28pm
10/7/2018 6:28pm
I've been to a lot of races over the years and in spite of our team struggling and the weather it was unbelievable! The atmosphere was like a huge festival. It was the most fun I've had in a long time!
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Moto96
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Moto96 10/7/2018 6:49pm
10/7/2018 6:49pm
People say its out highway outdoor tracks, but Herlings and them judt go even faster on smooth tracks.
bama205
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bama205 10/7/2018 6:52pm
10/7/2018 6:52pm
Cost of entry to this sport is causing us to miss out on some great riders.

Imagine if JS were born tomorrow. Think his dad could get him to the track?
dkg
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dkg 10/7/2018 7:01pm
10/7/2018 7:01pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 7:01pm
motomike137 wrote:
I've been to a lot of races over the years and in spite of our team struggling and the weather it was unbelievable! The atmosphere was...
I've been to a lot of races over the years and in spite of our team struggling and the weather it was unbelievable! The atmosphere was like a huge festival. It was the most fun I've had in a long time!
Yep. Nailed it. MxSports, Youthstream and the Redbud staff did a great job. Even trying to get out of the parking lot was a blast. Had some Europeans pointing out lines to get out. Best pointer of the afternoon, “Take the outside line and pin it.”
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FillmoreSouth 10/7/2018 7:04pm
10/7/2018 7:04pm
Tbteam wrote:
Don’t even fucking start that bullshit. Tomac was schooled. One lap gets you what? Is there a one lap mxdn?
Same whiney shit we heard after Ironman '17: "But Musquin had fastest lap! Musquin had fastest lap! Musquin had fastest laaaaaaaaaaaaaap!"

People who post shit like that don't understand racecraft.

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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 10/7/2018 7:06pm
10/7/2018 7:06pm
Tbteam wrote:
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys...
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys didn’t wax our top guys.

In retrospect, the Herlings v. Tomac threads are now laughable. Our guys looked like they were riding like crazy people while Herlings and Hoff looked like they were literally out for a Sunday cruise.

Congrats to the rest of the world. We need to play catch up now.
pilotdude wrote:
Please explain how Tomac had a faster lap time than every GP rider except Herlings and Coldenhoff.

Since you were there and you "know."
If it had been a one lap race?
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 10/7/2018 7:10pm
10/7/2018 7:10pm
gnarwhip wrote:
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've...
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've been a different story. Kinda like when Musquin beat Tomac at High Point this summer. Euros thrive on this stuff.
Rs444 wrote:
The best riders in the world should be able to go fast regardless of track conditions. If youre only the best on lets say a completly...
The best riders in the world should be able to go fast regardless of track conditions. If youre only the best on lets say a completly dry and well groomed hardpack track but suck in lets say deep sand, in mud or when it gets rough, are you really the best rider then?? . What makes a good motocross rider is to be well balanced and im sorry but that isnt et3. Sure there are tracks where he could go faster than anyone else but he has proven to be quite weak mentally after every race where he has gotten mud on his clutch lever etc etc and given up.
Then why doesn't Herlings come over to the US for a year, and ride a full season of dry US tracks in the hot summer months?
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Frère Jacques 10/7/2018 7:11pm
10/7/2018 7:11pm
gnarwhip wrote:
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've...
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've been a different story. Kinda like when Musquin beat Tomac at High Point this summer. Euros thrive on this stuff.
Rs444 wrote:
The best riders in the world should be able to go fast regardless of track conditions. If youre only the best on lets say a completly...
The best riders in the world should be able to go fast regardless of track conditions. If youre only the best on lets say a completly dry and well groomed hardpack track but suck in lets say deep sand, in mud or when it gets rough, are you really the best rider then?? . What makes a good motocross rider is to be well balanced and im sorry but that isnt et3. Sure there are tracks where he could go faster than anyone else but he has proven to be quite weak mentally after every race where he has gotten mud on his clutch lever etc etc and given up.
gnarwhip wrote:
Then why doesn't Herlings come over to the US for a year, and ride a full season of dry US tracks in the hot summer months?
Why doesn't Eli go over there to a tougher series?

What a stupid question.
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Moto96
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Moto96 10/7/2018 7:33pm
10/7/2018 7:33pm
What? Ever heard of the 80s and 90s? the list is long as fuck.
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JB 19
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JB 19 10/7/2018 7:44pm
10/7/2018 7:44pm
gnarwhip wrote:
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've...
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've been a different story. Kinda like when Musquin beat Tomac at High Point this summer. Euros thrive on this stuff.
I think it's time to stop making excuses. I was there and it was old fashioned tough motocross. RJ, RC, Stanton, Wardy, O'mara etc would probably agree.

I think the Euro's are in their head at this point. Bad.
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 10/7/2018 7:55pm
10/7/2018 7:55pm
Let's admit it. Our guys got:
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 10/7/2018 8:04pm
10/7/2018 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 8:05pm
Got completely dominated on their home soil on a track they know well and love. Barcia is amazing at Red Bud and Tomac and Plessinger are the best we have. I mean this was our best on our own soil. No excuse there. Absolutely dominated.

And just in case you were wondering, if we remove the GP guys, the results would have been the same as most rounds this year. Tomac 1-1, Barcia and Roczen rounding out the podium. This is with an admittedly huge omission in Musquin.
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JB479
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JB479 10/7/2018 8:06pm
10/7/2018 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 8:07pm
Shorten SX. I get bored of it after about round 13 or so. The Field gets depleted with injuries. Outdoors is where its at .
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