Luxon 150SX - Weight, First Ride

Luxon MX
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10/1/2018 9:27am
bf884 wrote:
Use this instead of the spray. old paint brush to apply. Let it sit. Pressure wash. Stuff is badass. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/01/290588/s1200_F90CF1E7_8C85_4BF2_89C6_1C0AFA132AD2.jpg[/img]
Use this instead of the spray. old paint brush to apply. Let it sit. Pressure wash. Stuff is badass.
I actually bought both the spray and the can of the Rust Oleum stuff, but for the quick test I didn't want to break out everything to brush it on. Figured the spray would be nice for those hard to reach areas. I looked for the Aircraft stuff, but couldn't find it anywhere so I just ordered the Rust Oleum. Seems like it will work just as well, but I'll find out soon!
Luxon MX
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10/2/2018 4:06pm
Well, I got around to fully stripping the powder coat yesterday. As I expected, it was not a simple process! It took 4 applications of stripper with some serious elbow grease and pressure washer work. There's still some stubborn tiny spots that aren't coming out without some sanding or blasting.

In the end, it wasn't worth it! The chassis was sandblasted for the powder coat so it's not nearly as nice looking as I'd hoped. Clear coat just wouldn't look very good without a lot of effort to smooth everything out and torching the welds. I should have just sandblasted it from the start and saved some time... Oh well!

But I did get a weight before and after stripping. I was always skeptical about the 1 or 2 pounds I've heard powder coat would add and it turns out I was right - stripping the powder coat resulted in only a 95 gram weight reduction. That's only 0.21 lb!







Next steps are to take some measurements for suspension kinematic analysis, then weld on the HPSD mount and glide plate mounts, and finally have it blasted and coated.
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navalseabee
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10/2/2018 4:20pm
Still planning on Cerakote even without the weight savings?
newmann
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10/3/2018 5:15am
Congrats on actually getting that frame down to bare metal. I remember trying to blast mine with #4 sand in my ALC pressure blaster. The sand just bounced off and barely dulled the surface. I continued on and blasted the entire surface before scuffing it and painting with PPG DP Epoxy Primer and Glasurit single stage matched to KTM orange.




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The Shop

Luxon MX
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10/3/2018 11:20am
Still planning on Cerakote even without the weight savings?
Probably not, looks like the cerakote for an entire frame will be really pricey. Going to check out some options at the powder coat guys. Still open to options, though, possibly even electroless nickel.
smezmx
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10/3/2018 12:43pm
Watching....
bf884
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10/3/2018 1:07pm
chrome it and pc TiN coat lol its just money
smezmx
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10/3/2018 1:26pm
Or just ka$hima coat it like this one.....Wink



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navalseabee
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10/3/2018 6:28pm
What color scheme are you shooting for in the end?
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Luxon MX
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10/4/2018 9:48am
What color scheme are you shooting for in the end?
Not 100% sure yet, but leaning towards titanium colored chassis, all white plastics, black/white/grey graphics, blue anodized parts (clamps, hubs, nipples, misc bolt-ons, etc.). I want to keep the chassis neutral so we can mix it up later. The last bike we did an orange chassis, which limits things a bit. Plus we want to do something different with this bike.
ledger
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TN US
10/4/2018 11:06am
One of Vitals member's ( I think Rob) had his 05 KX250 frame Nickel plated...turned out awesome and unique. Oops, see that you have already mentioned that in a few posts above. Anyway, looking fwd to your build.
arvid
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10/6/2018 1:23am
smezmx wrote:
Or just ka$hima coat it like this one.....;) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/03/291160/s1200_IMG_6782.jpg[/img]
Or just ka$hima coat it like this one.....Wink



ka$hima coat steel frame ?
smezmx
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10/6/2018 4:53am
arvid wrote:
ka$hima coat steel frame ?
I was kidding but not sure if it can be applied to a steel frame or not.....don't see why not?
Luxon MX
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10/6/2018 10:41am
smezmx wrote:
I was kidding but not sure if it can be applied to a steel frame or not.....don't see why not?
Kashima is just Molybdenum Disulfide impregnated hard anodize. It can only be applied to aluminum, so it's a no-go on steel.
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smezmx
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10/6/2018 10:46am
smezmx wrote:
I was kidding but not sure if it can be applied to a steel frame or not.....don't see why not?
Luxon MX wrote:
Kashima is just Molybdenum Disulfide impregnated hard anodize. It can only be applied to aluminum, so it's a no-go on steel.
Ahh thanks......i'm learning....
cdoggy81
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10/6/2018 12:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2018 12:42pm
You could DLC or TiN the steel though :-) Good luck finding a place that could hold a frame & hope you got deeeeeeep pockets!
Luxon MX
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10/11/2018 12:19pm
Made some more progress! This time I'll give some insight to the design process, particularly the rear suspension linkage.

We already have a linkage designed for the KTM/Husky. It's been a collaborative effort with Brian at N2Dirt Suspension (https://www.n2dirt.net) over the last couple years. We worked out all the linkage kinematics, design, and manufacturing. Brian worked out all of the valving and setup. After lots of analysis, prototypes, and physical testing (myself, Brian, Sean Collier, and a handful of others), we arrived at our first linkage early in 2017. Now we've just released our second generation link (more info available at https://luxonmx.com/products-suspension.html).

Our linkage, in-part, was developed based on some rough measurements (tape measure, angle finder, etc.) of the chassis. All the linkage measures themselves were spot-on, but the chassis was potentially off a few mm here and there. This was fine for linkage-to-linkage comparisons, so it wasn't an issue and we were able to get a much better linkage from it than stock (verified though physical testing/rider feedback).

But now that we have the new chassis all apart, we can get some very accurate measurements. Our mill is equipped with a Renishaw probing system, so we can use it as a CMM of sorts. By fixturing up the chassis (and anything else really) we can measure each suspension pick-up point size and location accurate to within .0002" Once we have that data, we can stick it in the CAD system, adjust the previous model, and re-run the analysis to get some exact results numbers.

Here's some images of the chassis and swingarm on the machine for measuring:






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Luxon MX
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10/11/2018 12:20pm
With the new measurements we can update the SolidWorks model, then run the motion analysis to output wheel travel vs. shock position.


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Luxon MX
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10/11/2018 12:21pm
We then enter that data into our spreadsheet to output the results of interest, in this case the wheel rate and wheel force data.







So with all this done, it's a matter of altering the linkage geometry in the model, re-running the analysis, and evaluating the curves. Repeat this process until the desired result is achieved and that's the new geometry for the linkage. Cut a few out, take them to the track, and test them out. Of course that's all already been done, we just have more accurate analysis numbers now that we've measured the chassis on the CNC machine.

Next up, chassis mods in prep for coating. Which we still haven't decided which route to take...



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Luxon MX
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10/30/2018 6:51pm
Lots going on at the moment, so not a huge amount of progress unfortunately. We did get the suspension parts out last week for coatings and those should be back next week. Also lots of parts are starting to show up. More details on that in a couple days.


1
Luxon MX
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11/1/2018 5:33pm
Here are a few of the parts we've got lined up for the bike. Having had the last generation 150, we have a pretty good idea of what worked well before and what we liked/disliked, so most of the part decisions were driven by that. Additionally one of the primary goal in this build is to reduce weight wherever possible. The previously mentioned spreadsheet has been really valuable in that as we've been cataloging all the parts with info for how much the stock parts weigh, how much the replacement parts weigh, and how much everything costs. From this we can calculate cost per gram of weight savings, which reveals some interesting points. I'll post up the full list once everything is finalized.

First up is tires. We went with Michelin Starcross tires over the stock Dunlops. Having run the Michelin tires on the last 150, I know that they work rather well for a lot of the so-cal tracks. But when you look at the weight reduction, it's an easy decision. These are by far the most efficient weight reduction for the price; it's rotational and un-sprung weight too! Switching out the Dunlop tires for these saves 430 g (0.95 lb) on the front and 630 g (1.39 lb) on the rear. That's huge! The resulting cost per gram saved is about $0.18. In comparison, cost per gram for titanium bolts is on the order of $1 - $4.

Next up is pipe and silencer. FMF partners with KTM on their Powerparts line so they have a bit of an advantage over the other manufacturers in development and time to market. We used FMF on the last 150 with good results, so that's what we went with again here. The works pipe actually saves a lot more weight than the titanium silencer, which was surprising. The pipe saves 340 g (0.75 lb) while the silencer only saves 95 g (0.21 lb).


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Jrewing
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11/1/2018 6:49pm Edited Date/Time 11/1/2018 6:51pm
I’m a weight weenie and am about to buy a 150sx. So this saves me plenty of time! Great work
Thin pipes make more power btw.
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navalseabee
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11/2/2018 3:27am Edited Date/Time 11/2/2018 8:30am
Unbelievable about those tires talk about bang for your buck.
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lumpy790
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11/2/2018 8:24am
Luxon MX wrote:
Finally got some free time this afternoon to make some more progress. The frame was nearly stripped of all components, but still had the annoying T-piece...
Finally got some free time this afternoon to make some more progress. The frame was nearly stripped of all components, but still had the annoying T-piece for the coolant lines installed. On previous years you could take this out with a 1/2" Allen wrench, but it seems they've changed it which is annoying. It's nowhere near a standard tool, so I whipped up a custom tool on my lathe and mill to take the thing out:



It comes out just the same as the old ones once you have to tool sorted out. I used a screwdriver up top to get some leverage as it's in there pretty tight. Once you get it loose it comes right out. We're probably going to go with a MotoHose replacement piece and they include the tool with their T-piece so that's one less thing to worry about, I just wanted to get this thing out now so we can move on with the rest of the chassis mods.





Next I wanted to test out the paint stripper I bought. I'm installing a HPSD bracket, so I just tested a couple spots: one at the head-tube where the bracket will weld on and another spot on the down-tube. I'd read that the stripper works best if the finish has been roughed up, so I tried that on the head-tube. I also tried stripper on the other spot without roughing it up for comparison.









As you can see, the area that was roughed up came off really easily. The other spot that wasn't roughed up didn't come off nearly as easy, but wasn't that bad:





That's it for now, hope to make some more progress this weekend!
Great job making the new T hose tool !

We have the new T hose design in stock and the 125 & 250 SX hose kits.

I used spray on furniture stripper to take the paint off my 01 YZ frame and the welding colors and bare metal looked so good I was tempted to clear coat over it!





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Luxon MX
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11/17/2018 12:00pm
Finally got around to knocking out the chassis modifications. First up was glide plate tabs. The 125/150 doesn’t come with the skid plate/glide plate mounts that the four strokes do in 2019 for some reason, so I made up some tabs and welded them on. These will fit the TM Design Works skid plate (the 2018 version fits fine), but I plan on making a custom glide plate that’s a bit lighter. Just looking for something simple to protect the frame rails and cases from rocks and whatnot. Using the same mounting points as the TM version allows some options later on instead of always being stuck with a custom plate.



Next was the HPSD mount. We had one of these on our 2016 150 and it certainly made a difference in the corners. Back to back runs were done with and without, and I wouldn’t get a new bike without putting one of these on there. Not a big fan of the bolt-on upper mount as it’s kind of clunky, heavy, and one more thing to come loose. So I whipped up a weld-on spud on the lathe:



Our triple clamps come with the lower mount, so good to go there. From this point it was pretty straight forward to align things and weld up the upper mount with a fixture I made (92mm between hole centers if anyone wants to do this).


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Luxon MX
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11/17/2018 12:02pm
Then it was on to the steering stops. The previous generation chassis used a threaded insert with bolts as steering stops. The bolts were terrible for your triple clamps, though, as they were sharp and not flat. So if you crashed or hit the stops hard, they left a dent in the triple clamp stops. We fixed this by offering brass bolt kits to replace the sharp steel bolts. These were much more friendly to the triple clamp stops.

But for 2019, KTM moved to an unthreaded steel steering stop welded to the chassis. This is better than the old steel bolts (and cheaper to manufacture), but not better than the brass bolts. So we whipped up some drill and tap jigs, and drilled and tapped the steering stop to accept bolts. And cut it down some as it needs to be shortened the height of the bolt head as well. But with this all done we can run brass bolts like before and not beat up the triple clamps so much.



And finally, why carry around this steel ID plate that does nothing but add weight. Grind it off! This is free weight savings, not much, but a couple titanium bolts worth.



Here it is, all set for powder coat (or maybe Cerakote, still haven’t made up our mind!). Total weight added from these modifications is 70 g (0.15 lb), so not bad.


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navalseabee
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11/17/2018 3:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2018 3:23pm
Vote for cerakote, I think it looks better than PC....A magnesium color might be neat.
1
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA US
11/19/2018 10:01pm
its amazing the amount of work that goes into creating parts that correct the chassis and how it works. it makes me wonder why an OEM would manufacture soooo many bikes for a number of years with obvious needed corrections, i mean unless their aim is to not produce a bike that ready to prop up companies that make mods?

This build is awesome, I like cerakote magnesium
1
11/21/2018 8:28pm
Clear coat it!
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smezmx
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Kent,medway.... GB
11/22/2018 1:37am
Unreal...wish i had a workshop like yours!.......just had a thought on the frame coating........if you pc it i reckon it would look nice matched up in the same colour as those triple clamps.........or if you wanted to do something nobody's ever seen on here before (for a frame) you could use the same coating that dirt tricks use for their zirconium rear sprockets..... made of chrome moly steel same as the frame they come in black chromium or multi colour and it should hold up very well to wear and tear...you may also be able to get it done in other single colours?..........got one on my yz build and i think it it looks beautiful but not everybody's cup of tea i guess.....
Just a thought.....Wink Wink

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-team-tested-dirt-tricks-zirconium-st…








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