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I think the previous generation KTM 125/150's had an excellent power valve design which seldom had any failures. I think the 2016-2022 power valve design was made in intention to cut production costs by using less parts. Although it produces really good power it's not as reliable as the previous design. And what comes to current EFI/electric power valve engine design I think they tried to cut production costs even more compared to previous generations and I think that has had an negative effect how the bikes perform
Excellent point that is often over looked by folks; mfg's make changes to cut costs all the time. A new guy comes in to the design group and says "if we reduce this from 15 parts to 8 we save x in part costs and y in labor". He's a hero in the product development meeting. But he/she just "new coked" that design. This type of decision is often made in a fish bowl and they ignore the "WHY" of the design they are replacing.
Short sided... dumb. Happens all the time.
Reminds me of this "leaf" mid valve design on the KYB Yamaha forks since... 2011 ish. Less parts... simpler to mfg. No spring... etc Less labor. Doesn't give the fork as much range for damping changes. But dildo's (aka "suspension experts") will come on here and crow about this that and the other related to this change. Yet they don't understand product design meetings and basic physics. How this sort of nonsense happens.
Oh well..... we're not going to fix this problem here on this board. (
Yeah exactly. I work as an engineer for a company which makes tractor cabins. I'm very familiar with management wanting more and more cost saving every year and they aren't interested in about usability/reliability that much because the only thing that matters for them is the EBITDA for the next quarter. It can be quite frustrating for the engineers because you want stand proud behind your own designs and that's not always possible.
Hey guys,
can you give me a short rundown on the shortcomings of the TBI 125s?
My old man (about to turn 75...) wants to get another Husqvarna, as my brother got one last year. Out with a knee injury our dad started to ride it regularly and is convinced it is the best thing since sliced bread.I try to talk him out of it. A 2023 GasGas is cheaper, lighter, easier to maintain and has a better platform for all tuning needs motorwise.
All I have seen and read the TBI is a step backwards. I was at a ADAC race last weekend and lots of carburated 125s were used, also by EMX125 racers. Somehow a good amount of TBI bikes are on the used market with low hours aswell.
The Shop
Well, you pretty much nailed it in your post: "A 2023 GasGas is cheaper, lighter, easier to maintain and has a better platform for all tuning needs motorwise."
EFI is awesome if it works correctly. Removing the need to jet a carb makes life a lot easier. But it comes with added sensors, complexity, and weight, which is no good. And if it doesn't work well on top of that, then the carb bike is a lot better in the end. I'm sure KTM will sort out the issues eventually, but you're still left with a heavier bike. For me, a big part of riding a 125/150 is how light the bike is. A big chunk of that goes away when you add EFI.
PTshox - interesting perspective on the KYB mid valve leaf updates. So far I have heard a lot of positive things post the 2018 ish update. Don't get me wrong, with time & the right shim stack you can get the older stuff (say 06 to 17) 100% dialed in but I think it just takes a little more out of the gate to get it closer to that point than what the newer stuff does. I don't want to muck up Billy's thread here so I'll take it offline & shoot you a PM. We have an interesting one going on it over on TT & I would like to hear your thoughts & ideas if you have time. Thanks!
My 150 powervalve has always been a PITA by hand, 125 is smooth as butter.
At 75 years old I think he will be just fine with a TBI bike. Electric start being one bonus, as well as no need to jet. I've heard the tbi bikes don't run as hard on the top end but have better pick up off the bottom.
For a racer the lighter easier to tune carbureted model may be better but if your father has already ridden the efi model and likes it I see no reason why he shouldn't go that route.
Definitely right on that. It's his decision after all.
Pit Row
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