2019 450 Shootout - Updated

Myke
Profile picture for user Myke
Posts
2500
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
Myke 8/16/2018 8:40pm
8/16/2018 8:40pm
Great video and surprise winner as well! Thanks for all the work!
1
motoarmageddon 8/16/2018 8:41pm
8/16/2018 8:41pm
So the new KTM is a step back a la 2009 CRF450?!
1
ledger
Profile picture for user ledger
Posts
3669
Joined
1/17/2013
Location
USA
ledger 8/16/2018 8:50pm
8/16/2018 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2018 9:18pm
Someone is hauling a$$ at minute 7:16 ? Glad I'm not a betting man...although, I picked one right. Thanks for the shootout, great job to The Crew.
1
Underground 8/16/2018 8:52pm
8/16/2018 8:52pm
Major suprise and turn around. Great little cliff notes video for the time challenged

The Shop

See All »
Deetsmx
Profile picture for user Deetsmx
Posts
888
Joined
4/21/2008
Location
Visalia, CA, USA
Deetsmx 8/16/2018 9:04pm
8/16/2018 9:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2018 9:06pm
It would be interesting to see if the results would be the same if it was a tacky rutted track as opposed to a dry track with berms. When I used to go down to SoCal to ride it always surprised me how different the bike would feel as far as suspension and the way the motor builds power.
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
17062
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
1324th
ML512 8/16/2018 9:20pm
8/16/2018 9:20pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2018 9:20pm
Deetsmx wrote:
It would be interesting to see if the results would be the same if it was a tacky rutted track as opposed to a dry track...
It would be interesting to see if the results would be the same if it was a tacky rutted track as opposed to a dry track with berms. When I used to go down to SoCal to ride it always surprised me how different the bike would feel as far as suspension and the way the motor builds power.
Wednesday was super good for us, Milestone used a tiller and soaked it deep, we had full length ruts in 90% of the corners, leg high in a couple. It’s still not East Coast but for us it was pretty good and really taught a few guys a lot about each bike.
2
Deetsmx
Profile picture for user Deetsmx
Posts
888
Joined
4/21/2008
Location
Visalia, CA, USA
Deetsmx 8/16/2018 9:27pm
8/16/2018 9:27pm
ML512 wrote:
Wednesday was super good for us, Milestone used a tiller and soaked it deep, we had full length ruts in 90% of the corners, leg high...
Wednesday was super good for us, Milestone used a tiller and soaked it deep, we had full length ruts in 90% of the corners, leg high in a couple. It’s still not East Coast but for us it was pretty good and really taught a few guys a lot about each bike.
Gotcha, thought you guys just tested there. If you ever need a nice and tacky track, I’ll be more than happy to provide one for you guys. I own DT1 MX Park in central Cali.
5
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
17062
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
1324th
ML512 8/16/2018 9:35pm
8/16/2018 9:35pm
ML512 wrote:
Wednesday was super good for us, Milestone used a tiller and soaked it deep, we had full length ruts in 90% of the corners, leg high...
Wednesday was super good for us, Milestone used a tiller and soaked it deep, we had full length ruts in 90% of the corners, leg high in a couple. It’s still not East Coast but for us it was pretty good and really taught a few guys a lot about each bike.
Deetsmx wrote:
Gotcha, thought you guys just tested there. If you ever need a nice and tacky track, I’ll be more than happy to provide one for you...
Gotcha, thought you guys just tested there. If you ever need a nice and tacky track, I’ll be more than happy to provide one for you guys. I own DT1 MX Park in central Cali.
Hmmm, I might have to take you up on that! Improving on these Shootouts is always a priority. Adding to the quality every year is a big focus for sure.
4
Joko
Profile picture for user Joko
Posts
1551
Joined
1/2/2011
Location
Haddam, CT, USA
Fantasy
120th
Joko 8/16/2018 9:36pm
8/16/2018 9:36pm
ML,
Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern on his 18YZ450F mechanical issues....thanks
2
TbonesPop 8/16/2018 9:41pm
8/16/2018 9:41pm
colvin227 wrote:
Wow was not expecting the #1. Really thought Kawi had it locked.....but I’ll still take my RMZ and the $3-4K savings Grinning
Gilby122 wrote:
That’s what I’m sayin! Just picked up a ‘18 for $6800 otd. Bought a fmf pipe, grips, chain, sprockets, holeshot device, air filters, oil filters, and...
That’s what I’m sayin! Just picked up a ‘18 for $6800 otd. Bought a fmf pipe, grips, chain, sprockets, holeshot device, air filters, oil filters, and on and on.... a “built” bike for me and still probably $2k less than another 350. Maybe some people can tell it’s last place bike....but in the 40+ class I’ll still be in the mix with money left over!
The Zook is a great bike for just about any average rider (most people) and it's price point is a great value. On the Podcast with Weege a few weeks back someone on the show pretty much said the RMZ 450 is an excellent bike that over 90% of the riders would never be worse or better riding when compared to the other bikes. They also said that a higher compression piston and an aftermarket exhaust changes the bike totally - and if Suzuki would just make those simple changes in stock form the reviews would be far better. Honestly, I think Suzuki is content filling a niche' market.
1
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
17062
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
1324th
ML512 8/16/2018 9:42pm
8/16/2018 9:42pm
Joko wrote:
ML, Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern...
ML,
Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern on his 18YZ450F mechanical issues....thanks
Not too often as I typically don’t get to keep all these bikes every year after a Shootout and we don’t have enough regular testers to achieve these higher timetables. I typically knock 50 hours or so for two or three different bikes each year, but I’m unable to ride enough to spread to many more machines with my other duties. It’s soemthing we’d like to do more of in the future though.
2
thearc
Profile picture for user thearc
Posts
243
Joined
5/1/2017
Location
Vancouver, CA
thearc 8/16/2018 9:52pm
8/16/2018 9:52pm
KTM/HUSKY Tuner app in 2020 STAMP it.
It's too good of a feature that Yamaha has for other manufactures to turn a blind eye.
Not only is it very useful it pretty cool/fun to mess around with.
6
WheelieNelson 8/16/2018 10:06pm
8/16/2018 10:06pm
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a 3rd/4th place this year and the Honda or ktm would win. Even more excited now! Thanks ML!

I'm curious if the current yzf still feels roomy enough for taller riders like myself? I'm 6'1 which isn't giant but enough to feel cramped up on some of the bikes. I liked the leg room the yzf 14-17 provided they just didn't turn well at all
3
Old2stroker08 8/16/2018 10:13pm
8/16/2018 10:13pm
Was surprised to see blue ahead of the ktm and husky. Lots of love for ktm and huskys on this board.

Im sure most of us would be happy with any of them.

think about mx as a hobby/lifestyle compared to others. if you were into drag racing or competive sports, golf, etc. Everything that you are really into cost money. i know guys into bodybuilding like myself 4-5 years ago and we would spend 10k on one regional show prep. 10k for a bike that would last you a lifetime if u treat it right its not so bad.

Old2stroker08 8/16/2018 10:15pm
8/16/2018 10:15pm
Joko wrote:
ML, Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern...
ML,
Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern on his 18YZ450F mechanical issues....thanks
ML512 wrote:
Not too often as I typically don’t get to keep all these bikes every year after a Shootout and we don’t have enough regular testers to...
Not too often as I typically don’t get to keep all these bikes every year after a Shootout and we don’t have enough regular testers to achieve these higher timetables. I typically knock 50 hours or so for two or three different bikes each year, but I’m unable to ride enough to spread to many more machines with my other duties. It’s soemthing we’d like to do more of in the future though.
50 h on 2-3 bikes a year. I envy you brother! what a great gig.
2
1
HusqFan3
Profile picture for user HusqFan3
Posts
719
Joined
4/30/2018
Location
Sammamish, WA, USA
HusqFan3 8/16/2018 10:20pm
8/16/2018 10:20pm
tobz wrote:
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got...
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got the amount of time to get it there. It just happens to be that the winner was the easiest to get there.

Pick your local dealer and favourite colour and you can't go wrong.
This was pretty much my takeaway as well. Shootout to see who could get the bike dialed in for the individual rider the quickest wins. Not sure how well that translates to a real world purchasing decision(unless you’re too impatient to invest more than 2 days dialing in settings) but interesting nonetheless.
2
RCMXracing
Profile picture for user RCMXracing
Posts
891
Joined
8/10/2011
Location
N., TX, USA
RCMXracing 8/16/2018 10:20pm
8/16/2018 10:20pm
Devil in the details, looking forward to the article.
Level of test rider and what kind of power they like, bottom/mid vs. mid/top I suspect determines a big part of ranking right? Most can be changed with gearing and mapping so nbd. Same with suspension.
So how a bike fits the rider and handles (not just cornering) becomes the core value IMHO. Other areas can be tweaked, and even some handling issues with suspension, offset, links, etc., so unless there are glaring problems that can only be fixed with cubic dollars then overall ranking is not overly important to me.
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
17062
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
1324th
ML512 8/16/2018 10:21pm
8/16/2018 10:21pm
Old2stroker08 wrote:
50 h on 2-3 bikes a year. I envy you brother! what a great gig.
I actually wish I rode more. Baring injury, I probably get around 180-200 hours a year right now total. Trying to get it closer to 300-350. Laughing
10

Pit Row

See All »
Lynch
Profile picture for user Lynch
Posts
728
Joined
3/14/2015
Location
SE
Lynch 8/16/2018 10:44pm
8/16/2018 10:44pm
Great video, can't wait for the writeup. Gonna check with my suspension guy if he can update my KYB 18 suspension when the first service is due.
TogaSet
Profile picture for user TogaSet
Posts
703
Joined
5/21/2016
Location
Chandler, AZ, USA
TogaSet 8/16/2018 11:00pm
8/16/2018 11:00pm
The pumpkin crowd is gonna go ballistic about these results. Lynch mob.
5
4
Lynch
Profile picture for user Lynch
Posts
728
Joined
3/14/2015
Location
SE
Lynch 8/16/2018 11:11pm
8/16/2018 11:11pm
WheelieNelson wrote:
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a...
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a 3rd/4th place this year and the Honda or ktm would win. Even more excited now! Thanks ML!

I'm curious if the current yzf still feels roomy enough for taller riders like myself? I'm 6'1 which isn't giant but enough to feel cramped up on some of the bikes. I liked the leg room the yzf 14-17 provided they just didn't turn well at all
We are just about the same height and I was worried about the same thing, the only thing I have done since my bike was new is move the handlebars to the front holes in the clamps.
racinstation
Profile picture for user racinstation
Posts
948
Joined
5/18/2013
Location
Driggs, ID, USA
racinstation 8/16/2018 11:48pm
8/16/2018 11:48pm
Old2stroker08 wrote:
50 h on 2-3 bikes a year. I envy you brother! what a great gig.
ML512 wrote:
I actually wish I rode more. Baring injury, I probably get around 180-200 hours a year right now total. Trying to get it closer to 300-350...
I actually wish I rode more. Baring injury, I probably get around 180-200 hours a year right now total. Trying to get it closer to 300-350. Laughing
Me too.........less one of those zeros on the end.

Thanks for all the hard work on these shootouts.
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
11578
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 8/16/2018 11:48pm
8/16/2018 11:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 12:04am
I'm not that surprised that Yamaha, Kawasaki and Honda beat the Austrian bikes. The current gen Honda is on its last few years of the life span(lots of small but important tweaks), the Yamaha got its first revision since the new gen bike and the Kawasaki is all new and they nailed it (i'm going to guess that the Kawasaki wins the 2020 shootout). Then there is the spring fork advantage they have. The AER is a good fork but the spring forks on those bikes are really, really high end.


I'm a bit surprised that the small updates on the Yamaha made that big of a difference. Ping talked about the same thing in a Racer X podcast.
1
Jrewing
Profile picture for user Jrewing
Posts
2863
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
AU
Jrewing 8/16/2018 11:58pm
8/16/2018 11:58pm
I agree with Pingree
2
2
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
37598
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
TeamGreen 8/17/2018 12:10am
8/17/2018 12:10am
tobz wrote:
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got...
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got the amount of time to get it there. It just happens to be that the winner was the easiest to get there.

Pick your local dealer and favourite colour and you can't go wrong.
ML512 wrote:
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I...
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I think with the right research everyone can find a bike that suits them better than the competition.
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment...
After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY contributed to it feeling kinda lethargic and harsh. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the stock stuff to work...it got a little better after 20 hours of riding and adjusting and asking people that knew this shock from it’s development & testing days at RCH...
Then I got the folks at Factory Connection involved... Boom! Problem SOLVED. The bike feels much more forgiving and even “lighter” on challenging sandy tracks & in tight rutty turns.

Here’s that same bike 1 year later, the 2018 RMZ...just last week at Glen Helen!
I’ve won a few races on it and even got some bears at Mammoth.

Now, here we are a day after I went and rated the 2019 RMZ450 6th...again...for basically the very same reasons. It was ABSOLUTELY FRUSTRATING!
Why? Because, I know exactly how good it can be...
But, per Michael’s rules, we judge as they come right off of the show-room floor.
15
David934
Profile picture for user David934
Posts
1037
Joined
8/17/2016
Location
CZ
David934 8/17/2018 12:43am
8/17/2018 12:43am
Old2stroker08 wrote:
50 h on 2-3 bikes a year. I envy you brother! what a great gig.
ML512 wrote:
I actually wish I rode more. Baring injury, I probably get around 180-200 hours a year right now total. Trying to get it closer to 300-350...
I actually wish I rode more. Baring injury, I probably get around 180-200 hours a year right now total. Trying to get it closer to 300-350. Laughing
Uff, I wish I had more than my 20h...
wideopen198 8/17/2018 1:00am
8/17/2018 1:00am
When is the 250 shootout coming? Waiting for the Rmz?
nascarnate326
Profile picture for user nascarnate326
Posts
3008
Joined
11/3/2014
Location
Charlotte, MI, USA
nascarnate326 8/17/2018 2:25am
8/17/2018 2:25am
Number backgrounds by viscid? Is that correct?
1
PJRAUS
Profile picture for user PJRAUS
Posts
1531
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
PJRAUS 8/17/2018 2:59am
8/17/2018 2:59am
Aaarrr farrkk! You chose the Yamaha as the winner. You inconsiderate bastards! What the hell am I supposed to do now? I was just starting to get my 2017 yz 450 sorted out....damn these new generation bikes!
PJRAUS
Profile picture for user PJRAUS
Posts
1531
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
PJRAUS 8/17/2018 3:03am
8/17/2018 3:03am
I just spent a while on the new 19 yz 250 f....I have no base of reference to comment on the others, but damn that bike was super easy to go max speed on without getting tired..amazing bike..

Post a reply to: 2019 450 Shootout - Updated