2019 450 Shootout - Updated

fullfloater
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fullfloater 8/17/2018 3:26am
8/17/2018 3:26am
I just got a great deal on a 18 KTM 450. I was skeptical about the delayed 19 release and the less than glowing early reports so I jumped on the proven 18 for a couple grand savings. Happy. Like the orange frame too. Ha. Pick it up tomorrow.
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brimx153
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brimx153 8/17/2018 4:38am
8/17/2018 4:38am
tobz wrote:
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got...
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got the amount of time to get it there. It just happens to be that the winner was the easiest to get there.

Pick your local dealer and favourite colour and you can't go wrong.
ML512 wrote:
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I...
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I think with the right research everyone can find a bike that suits them better than the competition.
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment... After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY...
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment...
After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY contributed to it feeling kinda lethargic and harsh. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the stock stuff to work...it got a little better after 20 hours of riding and adjusting and asking people that knew this shock from it’s development & testing days at RCH...
Then I got the folks at Factory Connection involved... Boom! Problem SOLVED. The bike feels much more forgiving and even “lighter” on challenging sandy tracks & in tight rutty turns.

Here’s that same bike 1 year later, the 2018 RMZ...just last week at Glen Helen!
I’ve won a few races on it and even got some bears at Mammoth.

Now, here we are a day after I went and rated the 2019 RMZ450 6th...again...for basically the very same reasons. It was ABSOLUTELY FRUSTRATING!
Why? Because, I know exactly how good it can be...
But, per Michael’s rules, we judge as they come right off of the show-room floor.
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change how a bike feels and even corners . It was very well put together ML and fun to look at. But imo you can take 1000$ to spend on any of these bike s and it turns a shootout on its head . Ie spend a 1000 the last place bike and suddenly it s the best bike , for you .Spend 1000 on the first place bike and you might not make it any better . Funny thing is . I have an older gen 15 Yamaha and I love it . It's the best turning bike I've every had , Yet loads hated it .I enjoy shootouts but I am Sooooooo with Ping on this one.
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JMX82
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JMX82 8/17/2018 4:46am
8/17/2018 4:46am
I't would be very difficult to determine what would be allowed to do on test bikes if modifications where allowed. I think it is much better to test them fully stock. I think every brand bike can be made fast. It's only matter how much money you are willing to spend
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One-Hander
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One-Hander 8/17/2018 4:54am
8/17/2018 4:54am
ML512 wrote:
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating...
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating this stuff but we look for different stuff at times in bike but we can both agree when a bike is darn good.
Is there any reason Vital couldn't use both yourself and Keefer in future tests?

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fourfourone
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fourfourone 8/17/2018 5:01am
8/17/2018 5:01am
ML512 wrote:
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I...
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I think with the right research everyone can find a bike that suits them better than the competition.
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment... After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY...
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment...
After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY contributed to it feeling kinda lethargic and harsh. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the stock stuff to work...it got a little better after 20 hours of riding and adjusting and asking people that knew this shock from it’s development & testing days at RCH...
Then I got the folks at Factory Connection involved... Boom! Problem SOLVED. The bike feels much more forgiving and even “lighter” on challenging sandy tracks & in tight rutty turns.

Here’s that same bike 1 year later, the 2018 RMZ...just last week at Glen Helen!
I’ve won a few races on it and even got some bears at Mammoth.

Now, here we are a day after I went and rated the 2019 RMZ450 6th...again...for basically the very same reasons. It was ABSOLUTELY FRUSTRATING!
Why? Because, I know exactly how good it can be...
But, per Michael’s rules, we judge as they come right off of the show-room floor.
brimx153 wrote:
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change...
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change how a bike feels and even corners . It was very well put together ML and fun to look at. But imo you can take 1000$ to spend on any of these bike s and it turns a shootout on its head . Ie spend a 1000 the last place bike and suddenly it s the best bike , for you .Spend 1000 on the first place bike and you might not make it any better . Funny thing is . I have an older gen 15 Yamaha and I love it . It's the best turning bike I've every had , Yet loads hated it .I enjoy shootouts but I am Sooooooo with Ping on this one.
you could mix up a shootout however you want to. but this is about STOCK bikes and how they perform. Not everyone mods their bikes or wants to do 1k-2k in suspension. If you need to take the last place bike and spend $$$$ to make it as good as the fist place bike then their lies the issue on why it got last. Its the same thing when auto companies do tests. Stock for stock.
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make1go
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make1go 8/17/2018 5:16am
8/17/2018 5:16am
i geuss if i praise the test im sucking up? (for dfb's)

nice one guys..

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grunkster
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grunkster 8/17/2018 5:29am
8/17/2018 5:29am
No chance they will wait for the zuke for 250 shootout. At least one would hope not...
cody41
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cody41 8/17/2018 5:33am
8/17/2018 5:33am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 5:54am
The irony of an 11k plus factory edition coming in 5th is real.
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Tarz483
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Tarz483 8/17/2018 6:42am
8/17/2018 6:42am
Ping says
I tell my friends to see what bike I'm riding
And Buy that 1
Because I can ride whatever bike I want to ride .
This year he is Riding the 2019 Kawi 450
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/17/2018 6:49am
8/17/2018 6:49am
ML512 wrote:
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I...
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I think with the right research everyone can find a bike that suits them better than the competition.
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment... After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY...
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment...
After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY contributed to it feeling kinda lethargic and harsh. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the stock stuff to work...it got a little better after 20 hours of riding and adjusting and asking people that knew this shock from it’s development & testing days at RCH...
Then I got the folks at Factory Connection involved... Boom! Problem SOLVED. The bike feels much more forgiving and even “lighter” on challenging sandy tracks & in tight rutty turns.

Here’s that same bike 1 year later, the 2018 RMZ...just last week at Glen Helen!
I’ve won a few races on it and even got some bears at Mammoth.

Now, here we are a day after I went and rated the 2019 RMZ450 6th...again...for basically the very same reasons. It was ABSOLUTELY FRUSTRATING!
Why? Because, I know exactly how good it can be...
But, per Michael’s rules, we judge as they come right off of the show-room floor.
brimx153 wrote:
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change...
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change how a bike feels and even corners . It was very well put together ML and fun to look at. But imo you can take 1000$ to spend on any of these bike s and it turns a shootout on its head . Ie spend a 1000 the last place bike and suddenly it s the best bike , for you .Spend 1000 on the first place bike and you might not make it any better . Funny thing is . I have an older gen 15 Yamaha and I love it . It's the best turning bike I've every had , Yet loads hated it .I enjoy shootouts but I am Sooooooo with Ping on this one.
I get what you're saying; but, these tests do give a person a feel for how the various models are different from one another and how their basic handling and power characteristic have changed form model to model/year to year.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 8/17/2018 6:49am
8/17/2018 6:49am
Good shootout but nobody rides stock kawasaki bend bars!
ML512
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ML512 8/17/2018 6:50am
8/17/2018 6:50am
wideopen198 wrote:
When is the 250 shootout coming? Waiting for the Rmz?
We’re waiting on the Honda, Suzuki is still unknown so we have a set starting date in early October when the Honda becomes available. We notified Suzuki so I’m really
Hoping they air freight a bike over for a couple media outlets to use. Otherwise, they will likely be skipped.
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ML512
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ML512 8/17/2018 6:55am
8/17/2018 6:55am
ML512 wrote:
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating...
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating this stuff but we look for different stuff at times in bike but we can both agree when a bike is darn good.
One-Hander wrote:
Is there any reason Vital couldn't use both yourself and Keefer in future tests?
Well I’m an employee of Vital Mx and technically Keefer is a competitor but we’re not curing cancer here, just riding dirt bikes so we wish we could do something. Me and him have talked about how much we’d like to do a Shootout involving the main test guys from each media group. Such as myself, Keefer, Stapleton (MXA), Foster (TWMX), get Pingree outta Shootout retirement, Rich Taylor etc...

Keefer and I are going to do a Shootout night on Pulp MX when he finishes his in a couple weeks.
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ML512
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ML512 8/17/2018 6:56am
8/17/2018 6:56am
nascarnate326 wrote:
Number backgrounds by viscid? Is that correct?
Correct! Viscid Designs, a child hood racing friend of mine started it, Johnny Jelderda.
Crush
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Crush 8/17/2018 6:59am
8/17/2018 6:59am
Hey ML512, is the scoring Olympic style per category? And if so what's the reasoning behind the scoring system choice... Kinda seems limiting or like a bike could never recover from say bad brakes or whatever.

Would rating each category out of ten as an aggregate of each scorer's input not be better?
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 8/17/2018 7:08am
8/17/2018 7:08am
ML512 wrote:
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating...
I actually called him last night to tell him the results and the blue lover was excited. Keefer doesn’t sway my opinion though, we love debating this stuff but we look for different stuff at times in bike but we can both agree when a bike is darn good.
One-Hander wrote:
Is there any reason Vital couldn't use both yourself and Keefer in future tests?
ML512 wrote:
Well I’m an employee of Vital Mx and technically Keefer is a competitor but we’re not curing cancer here, just riding dirt bikes so we wish...
Well I’m an employee of Vital Mx and technically Keefer is a competitor but we’re not curing cancer here, just riding dirt bikes so we wish we could do something. Me and him have talked about how much we’d like to do a Shootout involving the main test guys from each media group. Such as myself, Keefer, Stapleton (MXA), Foster (TWMX), get Pingree outta Shootout retirement, Rich Taylor etc...

Keefer and I are going to do a Shootout night on Pulp MX when he finishes his in a couple weeks.
Since the majority of riders I see are plus 30 c to b riders I would love to see a shoot out with plus 30 to plus 60 riders sometime.
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kb228
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kb228 8/17/2018 7:11am
8/17/2018 7:11am
As a loyal kawasaki rider, im pumped to see the kawi back towards the top of the list where it belongs. Kool aid can suck it
JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 8/17/2018 7:17am
8/17/2018 7:17am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Good shootout but nobody rides stock kawasaki bend bars!
I actually do. I swapped to fatbars, but still run the OE Kawasaki bend. Have them on my KX450F and YZ250. I like them.
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TJMX947
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TJMX947 8/17/2018 7:22am
8/17/2018 7:22am
I'm jealous of anyone who gets to put more than 50 hours a year on a bi
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JMX82
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JMX82 8/17/2018 7:22am
8/17/2018 7:22am
kb228 wrote:
As a loyal kawasaki rider, im pumped to see the kawi back towards the top of the list where it belongs. Kool aid can suck it
What makes green koold aid better than the orange one? In my opinion it's all about who makes the best bike and not about bike brand...
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 8/17/2018 7:24am
8/17/2018 7:24am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Good shootout but nobody rides stock kawasaki bend bars!
JBecker 72 wrote:
I actually do. I swapped to fatbars, but still run the OE Kawasaki bend. Have them on my KX450F and YZ250. I like them.
That bend is so swept backwards I’m surprised you like them. I run a more straight level bar
seth505
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seth505 8/17/2018 7:25am
8/17/2018 7:25am
cody41 wrote:
The irony of an 11k plus factory edition coming in 5th is real.
Which factory edition did they test? Did you see the vid?
seth505
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seth505 8/17/2018 7:28am
8/17/2018 7:28am
kb228 wrote:
As a loyal kawasaki rider, im pumped to see the kawi back towards the top of the list where it belongs. Kool aid can suck it
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with no bias when you want a new one and purchase accordingly?
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Adam43
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Adam43 8/17/2018 7:32am
8/17/2018 7:32am
Interesting. No doubt there will be some variance with the other outlet's shootouts, but that's just a testament to how good most of the bikes are.

Very impressive that Yamaha was able to take such a step with small changes. Things are close.
JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 8/17/2018 7:33am
8/17/2018 7:33am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Good shootout but nobody rides stock kawasaki bend bars!
JBecker 72 wrote:
I actually do. I swapped to fatbars, but still run the OE Kawasaki bend. Have them on my KX450F and YZ250. I like them.
kkawboy14 wrote:
That bend is so swept backwards I’m surprised you like them. I run a more straight level bar
It’s the same bend Honda uses. I grew up with mostly Honda so that’s probably why I like it.
MPJC
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MPJC 8/17/2018 7:47am
8/17/2018 7:47am
Didn't MXA have something about the new KTM airbox being restrictive - that they livened it up by opening up the airbox? That fits well with the comments in this video about the bike feeling sluggish off the bottom. Of course, since the bikes are being evaluated in stock condition you can't start drilling holes to alleviate issues. But for people who bought the KTM, I'm sure it's nice to know that they major complaint can be easily addressed. So results notwithstanding, I don't think the KTM sky is falling.
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Jbulz 8/17/2018 7:49am
8/17/2018 7:49am
JBecker 72 wrote:
I actually do. I swapped to fatbars, but still run the OE Kawasaki bend. Have them on my KX450F and YZ250. I like them.
kkawboy14 wrote:
That bend is so swept backwards I’m surprised you like them. I run a more straight level bar
JBecker 72 wrote:
It’s the same bend Honda uses. I grew up with mostly Honda so that’s probably why I like it.
I also run the stock Kawi bars. I planned on swapping them out once I bent them, but the set on my 2016 lasted 3 seasons. I don't mind the bend, but I usually run the protaper EVO henry/reed bars on my other bikes
Zaugg
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Zaugg 8/17/2018 8:00am
8/17/2018 8:00am
tobz wrote:
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got...
So to pretty much sum it up, all of those bikes (sans the old school Suzuki) can be as good as each other provided you've got the amount of time to get it there. It just happens to be that the winner was the easiest to get there.

Pick your local dealer and favourite colour and you can't go wrong.
ML512 wrote:
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I...
I disagree with the final sentiment, there are certain charteristics that don’t suit certain riders. Yes, the current crop of bikes are darn good but I think with the right research everyone can find a bike that suits them better than the competition.
I think you missed his point Michael.

You really can't go wrong with any of the bikes...including the yellow one.

I know guys who love last years' yellow bike and hate the orange bike. I also know guys that think this year's green bike rides like a pig and the Honda is...well a Honda (you know what you're gonna get like vanilla ice cream.)

While I see your point that some bikes don't suit some riding styles, I still think you can't really go wrong with any brand, especially if your favorite brand and your favorite dealer isn't in line with the favorite bike of 7 riders.

For what it's worth, mathematically 7 isn't a large enough sample size to dictate the overall opinion of the riding community anyway, which is why all these "shootouts" are kind of irrelevant in their current format. (Bike A is the winner. Maybe for 7 guys but not for my riding style.)

Vital will breakdown each bike, which should be helpful to the consumer, but essentially they're picking a favorite not a winner. A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers. Don't for get that kids.

Use this as guide to narrow down your search and factor in dealer support, reliability, and even your favorite color.




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