2019 450 Shootout - Updated

ML512
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8/17/2018 8:24am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 8:37am
Zaugg wrote:
I think you missed his point Michael. You really can't go wrong with any of the bikes...including the yellow one. I know guys who love last...
I think you missed his point Michael.

You really can't go wrong with any of the bikes...including the yellow one.

I know guys who love last years' yellow bike and hate the orange bike. I also know guys that think this year's green bike rides like a pig and the Honda is...well a Honda (you know what you're gonna get like vanilla ice cream.)

While I see your point that some bikes don't suit some riding styles, I still think you can't really go wrong with any brand, especially if your favorite brand and your favorite dealer isn't in line with the favorite bike of 7 riders.

For what it's worth, mathematically 7 isn't a large enough sample size to dictate the overall opinion of the riding community anyway, which is why all these "shootouts" are kind of irrelevant in their current format. (Bike A is the winner. Maybe for 7 guys but not for my riding style.)

Vital will breakdown each bike, which should be helpful to the consumer, but essentially they're picking a favorite not a winner. A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers. Don't for get that kids.

Use this as guide to narrow down your search and factor in dealer support, reliability, and even your favorite color.




"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know how much each have spent and how that doesn't effect my side of the job. Being that you've been on both ends of this situation. Wink

And I still slightly disagree in the sense you can't go wrong. Yes, every one of these bikes are quite good in their own right but as I've seen many times before, people still get ones that don't suit them and it hampers/makes them struggle for months. By example, I have a close riding buddy who spent ten years jumping back and forth between Honda and Yamahas each year. He could never find what he was chasing and after a few big crashes and frustrations with his bikes, he considered quitting. After listening to me bug him for three years to try a Kawasaki because I thought it would suite his style, he's now back in love with moto and has found "his bike".

Yes, it's not going to be that gnarly of a moment for all guys but I personally believe there's bikes that suite riders more than others and if they find that right one, it can make their entire riding experience more enjoyable. Ultimately, that's what I think Shootouts share the most when it comes to how we break down and share the opinion of each rider, I want the end user to find that bike that is right for them.
3
Park Boys
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8/17/2018 8:41am
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a...
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a 3rd/4th place this year and the Honda or ktm would win. Even more excited now! Thanks ML!

I'm curious if the current yzf still feels roomy enough for taller riders like myself? I'm 6'1 which isn't giant but enough to feel cramped up on some of the bikes. I liked the leg room the yzf 14-17 provided they just didn't turn well at all
I would like to know how taller riders feel about it as well. I'm 6'2 and my 15 YZ450f fits me better than any bike I have ever had or ridden. Would like to know if it's still roomy for us.
BR8ES
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8/17/2018 8:44am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 8:46am
Rigged I say, rigged. No way KTM/HUSKY finish that low.








For the short bus riders here... joking. Myth busted.
3
mmcmx
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8/17/2018 8:55am
Zaugg wrote:
I think you missed his point Michael. You really can't go wrong with any of the bikes...including the yellow one. I know guys who love last...
I think you missed his point Michael.

You really can't go wrong with any of the bikes...including the yellow one.

I know guys who love last years' yellow bike and hate the orange bike. I also know guys that think this year's green bike rides like a pig and the Honda is...well a Honda (you know what you're gonna get like vanilla ice cream.)

While I see your point that some bikes don't suit some riding styles, I still think you can't really go wrong with any brand, especially if your favorite brand and your favorite dealer isn't in line with the favorite bike of 7 riders.

For what it's worth, mathematically 7 isn't a large enough sample size to dictate the overall opinion of the riding community anyway, which is why all these "shootouts" are kind of irrelevant in their current format. (Bike A is the winner. Maybe for 7 guys but not for my riding style.)

Vital will breakdown each bike, which should be helpful to the consumer, but essentially they're picking a favorite not a winner. A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers. Don't for get that kids.

Use this as guide to narrow down your search and factor in dealer support, reliability, and even your favorite color.




ML512 wrote:
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know...
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know how much each have spent and how that doesn't effect my side of the job. Being that you've been on both ends of this situation. Wink

And I still slightly disagree in the sense you can't go wrong. Yes, every one of these bikes are quite good in their own right but as I've seen many times before, people still get ones that don't suit them and it hampers/makes them struggle for months. By example, I have a close riding buddy who spent ten years jumping back and forth between Honda and Yamahas each year. He could never find what he was chasing and after a few big crashes and frustrations with his bikes, he considered quitting. After listening to me bug him for three years to try a Kawasaki because I thought it would suite his style, he's now back in love with moto and has found "his bike".

Yes, it's not going to be that gnarly of a moment for all guys but I personally believe there's bikes that suite riders more than others and if they find that right one, it can make their entire riding experience more enjoyable. Ultimately, that's what I think Shootouts share the most when it comes to how we break down and share the opinion of each rider, I want the end user to find that bike that is right for them.
I can totally relate, after 3 kawis and 15 years on aluminium chasis I jumped to the orange bandwagon with a '16 FE. My time at the track has been miserable ever since. Last year I only did 30 hours cause I didn't even feel like riding most of the time. And I don't even know what is it? it's an amazing bike but it just doesn't work for me!
1

The Shop

racer495a
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CO US
8/17/2018 9:02am
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment... After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY...
I’m gonna have to disagree with the Suzuki comment...
After last-year’s shoutout, I’d felt that the Suzuki was being held back by suspension settings that REALLY contributed to it feeling kinda lethargic and harsh. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the stock stuff to work...it got a little better after 20 hours of riding and adjusting and asking people that knew this shock from it’s development & testing days at RCH...
Then I got the folks at Factory Connection involved... Boom! Problem SOLVED. The bike feels much more forgiving and even “lighter” on challenging sandy tracks & in tight rutty turns.

Here’s that same bike 1 year later, the 2018 RMZ...just last week at Glen Helen!
I’ve won a few races on it and even got some bears at Mammoth.

Now, here we are a day after I went and rated the 2019 RMZ450 6th...again...for basically the very same reasons. It was ABSOLUTELY FRUSTRATING!
Why? Because, I know exactly how good it can be...
But, per Michael’s rules, we judge as they come right off of the show-room floor.
brimx153 wrote:
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change...
That s way shootouts are stupid imo . Unless you plan on racing a fully stock bike .little things like bar bend etc can tottally change how a bike feels and even corners . It was very well put together ML and fun to look at. But imo you can take 1000$ to spend on any of these bike s and it turns a shootout on its head . Ie spend a 1000 the last place bike and suddenly it s the best bike , for you .Spend 1000 on the first place bike and you might not make it any better . Funny thing is . I have an older gen 15 Yamaha and I love it . It's the best turning bike I've every had , Yet loads hated it .I enjoy shootouts but I am Sooooooo with Ping on this one.
you could mix up a shootout however you want to. but this is about STOCK bikes and how they perform. Not everyone mods their bikes or...
you could mix up a shootout however you want to. but this is about STOCK bikes and how they perform. Not everyone mods their bikes or wants to do 1k-2k in suspension. If you need to take the last place bike and spend $$$$ to make it as good as the fist place bike then their lies the issue on why it got last. Its the same thing when auto companies do tests. Stock for stock.
I can't imagine how the bike that is the heaviest, slowest, kick start, and has unbalanced suspension lost. Clearly a conspiracy in play here folks.
2
Zaugg
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8/17/2018 9:11am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 9:13am
ML512 wrote:
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know...
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know how much each have spent and how that doesn't effect my side of the job. Being that you've been on both ends of this situation. Wink

And I still slightly disagree in the sense you can't go wrong. Yes, every one of these bikes are quite good in their own right but as I've seen many times before, people still get ones that don't suit them and it hampers/makes them struggle for months. By example, I have a close riding buddy who spent ten years jumping back and forth between Honda and Yamahas each year. He could never find what he was chasing and after a few big crashes and frustrations with his bikes, he considered quitting. After listening to me bug him for three years to try a Kawasaki because I thought it would suite his style, he's now back in love with moto and has found "his bike".

Yes, it's not going to be that gnarly of a moment for all guys but I personally believe there's bikes that suite riders more than others and if they find that right one, it can make their entire riding experience more enjoyable. Ultimately, that's what I think Shootouts share the most when it comes to how we break down and share the opinion of each rider, I want the end user to find that bike that is right for them.
I absolutely know...

A true, unbiased assessment can only be done if you don't take advertising money and you are not given the bikes. (Consumer Reports comes to mind.) I know you guys don't have the budget (other media outlets don't either) but this is truly the only way to give a comparison. In fact, none of the manufacturers should be allowed to assist with set-up. The consumer doesn't have that luxury, why should the media? Buy the bikes at a random dealer, outside SoCal, and set them up yourself. (Because each OEM wants to put their very best foot forward this isn't possible.)

Speaking of which, if this was truly comprehensive, why isn't TM, Beta, Gas Gas, etc included in these shootouts?

No motorcycle media publication with paid advertising can keep sales and content truly separate.

Don't get your feathers ruffled Michael. While you might not agree with my opinion, it - like every shootout, is just an opinion and not fact. Just something to think about.

Here's another opinion: I don't want to know your favorite...I want to know about each bike and its features. Like boots, helmets, knee braces, etc...everybody has a different "favorite". Just because you have a bigger audience, doesn't make your opinion more or less valid than the average consumer. What was your favorite? I bet I can guess and I bet it's not my favorite. That's my point.

To end on a positive note...I was impressed with your VO. You didn't sound rushed and your cadence and delivery was smooth and natural. This is a step in the right direction.

Now let's talk about you wearing flip flops on camera. Laughing


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5
ML512
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8/17/2018 9:27am
Zaugg wrote:
I absolutely know... A true, unbiased assessment can only be done if you don't take advertising money and you are not given the bikes. (Consumer Reports...
I absolutely know...

A true, unbiased assessment can only be done if you don't take advertising money and you are not given the bikes. (Consumer Reports comes to mind.) I know you guys don't have the budget (other media outlets don't either) but this is truly the only way to give a comparison. In fact, none of the manufacturers should be allowed to assist with set-up. The consumer doesn't have that luxury, why should the media? Buy the bikes at a random dealer, outside SoCal, and set them up yourself. (Because each OEM wants to put their very best foot forward this isn't possible.)

Speaking of which, if this was truly comprehensive, why isn't TM, Beta, Gas Gas, etc included in these shootouts?

No motorcycle media publication with paid advertising can keep sales and content truly separate.

Don't get your feathers ruffled Michael. While you might not agree with my opinion, it - like every shootout, is just an opinion and not fact. Just something to think about.

Here's another opinion: I don't want to know your favorite...I want to know about each bike and its features. Like boots, helmets, knee braces, etc...everybody has a different "favorite". Just because you have a bigger audience, doesn't make your opinion more or less valid than the average consumer. What was your favorite? I bet I can guess and I bet it's not my favorite. That's my point.

To end on a positive note...I was impressed with your VO. You didn't sound rushed and your cadence and delivery was smooth and natural. This is a step in the right direction.

Now let's talk about you wearing flip flops on camera. Laughing


#FLIPFLOPLIFE!!! I will not change! Laughing

Well by the fact that Gas Gas and Beta don't have motocross models...and TM refuses to participate soooo... Laughing

I appreciate the feedback on the video side, I'm trying to slow my roll on those.

One last thing, if advertising dollars ever made a difference in my shootout, you know where Suzuki would've finished there for a couple years...you saw their spend when you worked here. Shocked
1
kb228
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8/17/2018 9:28am
kb228 wrote:
As a loyal kawasaki rider, im pumped to see the kawi back towards the top of the list where it belongs. Kool aid can suck it
seth505 wrote:
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with...
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with no bias when you want a new one and purchase accordingly?
On one hand ive been on kawis since i was a kid. I own a ton of kawi merch. I know the 450 in and out. I like the am program and enjoy hanging out at the semi at demo days. Its what ive had good luck with.

After the last handful of years of hearing KTM owners talk down on jap bikes like harley riders do, its nice to have it turn around.

Its hypocritical, but not everyone can be perfect.
3
kkawboy14
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8/17/2018 9:30am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 9:31am
JBecker 72 wrote:
I actually do. I swapped to fatbars, but still run the OE Kawasaki bend. Have them on my KX450F and YZ250. I like them.
kkawboy14 wrote:
That bend is so swept backwards I’m surprised you like them. I run a more straight level bar
JBecker 72 wrote:
It’s the same bend Honda uses. I grew up with mostly Honda so that’s probably why I like it.
Those bends just naturally tuck your elbows in
kkawboy14
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8/17/2018 9:34am
kb228 wrote:
As a loyal kawasaki rider, im pumped to see the kawi back towards the top of the list where it belongs. Kool aid can suck it
seth505 wrote:
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with...
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with no bias when you want a new one and purchase accordingly?
kb228 wrote:
On one hand ive been on kawis since i was a kid. I own a ton of kawi merch. I know the 450 in and out...
On one hand ive been on kawis since i was a kid. I own a ton of kawi merch. I know the 450 in and out. I like the am program and enjoy hanging out at the semi at demo days. Its what ive had good luck with.

After the last handful of years of hearing KTM owners talk down on jap bikes like harley riders do, its nice to have it turn around.

Its hypocritical, but not everyone can be perfect.
It’s not hypocritical to like one brand over another, I personally don’t think kawasaki should have been out of the top 2 bikes for the last 10 years.

Kawasaki always seemed to fit a bigger rider so I have always felt more comfortable on one.
I started riding kawasaki because always year after year gave more support to amateur riders. Some of the other brands would jump up their amateur payouts but then reduce them
1
JBecker 72
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8/17/2018 9:59am
kkawboy14 wrote:
That bend is so swept backwards I’m surprised you like them. I run a more straight level bar
JBecker 72 wrote:
It’s the same bend Honda uses. I grew up with mostly Honda so that’s probably why I like it.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Those bends just naturally tuck your elbows in
The Kawi bend has 54mm of sweep which is the same as the McGrath bend. The RC bend is 53mm, Reed is 56mm, and the Vilipoto/Stewart is 49mm.

Maybe you were riding with bent bars.
1
Zaugg
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8/17/2018 10:05am
ML512 wrote:
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know...
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know how much each have spent and how that doesn't effect my side of the job. Being that you've been on both ends of this situation. Wink

And I still slightly disagree in the sense you can't go wrong. Yes, every one of these bikes are quite good in their own right but as I've seen many times before, people still get ones that don't suit them and it hampers/makes them struggle for months. By example, I have a close riding buddy who spent ten years jumping back and forth between Honda and Yamahas each year. He could never find what he was chasing and after a few big crashes and frustrations with his bikes, he considered quitting. After listening to me bug him for three years to try a Kawasaki because I thought it would suite his style, he's now back in love with moto and has found "his bike".

Yes, it's not going to be that gnarly of a moment for all guys but I personally believe there's bikes that suite riders more than others and if they find that right one, it can make their entire riding experience more enjoyable. Ultimately, that's what I think Shootouts share the most when it comes to how we break down and share the opinion of each rider, I want the end user to find that bike that is right for them.
I can agree with that...just don't tell us your favorite bike.

Food for thought using your example...you think your buddy would like the new Yamaha...or more specifically...the new Kawi. I feel your style of conducting these shootouts is more conducive to providing data and then you ruin it by interjecting opinion.

Give consumers the flexibility to make their own opinion base on the data you provide. The information shouldn't be sullied by opinion. Take that concept of helping your buddy and apply that to Shootouts. Only tell us the strengths and weaknesses of each bike.

Leave the opinion out, because if your buddy didn't listen to you, he might have bought a Honda last year or a Yamaha this year and still hate riding.

To support your point and further bolster mine; I had a buddy who only likes yellow. Was in the market for a new bike and I suggested he look outside his comfort zone because the yellow bikes are falling behind. He entertained the idea and at the end of the day, bought LAST YEAR's yellow bike and is pretty darn happy with it. The bike that got last place in everyone's shootout. Again, using the data, he determined this bike fit HIS needs not the needs based on opinion.

Lean heavy on the data and less on opinion. You guys make great efforts to showcase the data from LitPro, dynos, and stats. Knowing the winner only validates their purchase, allows people to puff up their chest in brand loyalty, or slam another brand because they didn't get top honors (oh how the mighty have fallen syndrome).

Now...how about those flip flops

1
kb228
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Mansfield, OH US
8/17/2018 10:06am
seth505 wrote:
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with...
You’re no different, saying “I’m a ______ guy” and loving that the manufacturer did well is a weird thing. Why not evaluate all the bikes with no bias when you want a new one and purchase accordingly?
kb228 wrote:
On one hand ive been on kawis since i was a kid. I own a ton of kawi merch. I know the 450 in and out...
On one hand ive been on kawis since i was a kid. I own a ton of kawi merch. I know the 450 in and out. I like the am program and enjoy hanging out at the semi at demo days. Its what ive had good luck with.

After the last handful of years of hearing KTM owners talk down on jap bikes like harley riders do, its nice to have it turn around.

Its hypocritical, but not everyone can be perfect.
kkawboy14 wrote:
It’s not hypocritical to like one brand over another, I personally don’t think kawasaki should have been out of the top 2 bikes for the last...
It’s not hypocritical to like one brand over another, I personally don’t think kawasaki should have been out of the top 2 bikes for the last 10 years.

Kawasaki always seemed to fit a bigger rider so I have always felt more comfortable on one.
I started riding kawasaki because always year after year gave more support to amateur riders. Some of the other brands would jump up their amateur payouts but then reduce them
Not to mention their motors on the 250 and 450 are pretty much the same as they have been for YEARS. No major overhauls for a long long time.
1
msp332
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8/17/2018 10:07am
Thanks for the great shootout!

What specifically does Alta need to do to get into these shootouts? You mentioned Gas Gas, Beta, and TM, but Alta has motocross models and wants to participate. I'd love to see the LitPro data alone.
1
One-Hander
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8/17/2018 10:28am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2018 10:29am
ML512 wrote:
Well I’m an employee of Vital Mx and technically Keefer is a competitor but we’re not curing cancer here, just riding dirt bikes so we wish...
Well I’m an employee of Vital Mx and technically Keefer is a competitor but we’re not curing cancer here, just riding dirt bikes so we wish we could do something. Me and him have talked about how much we’d like to do a Shootout involving the main test guys from each media group. Such as myself, Keefer, Stapleton (MXA), Foster (TWMX), get Pingree outta Shootout retirement, Rich Taylor etc...

Keefer and I are going to do a Shootout night on Pulp MX when he finishes his in a couple weeks.
This is an amazing idea and will shut up the conspiracy guys who say each media group is paid by (insert brand here) to make sure they win.
ML512
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8/17/2018 11:24am
ML512 wrote:
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know...
"A winner is the bike you find to be the best regardless of the opinions of 4-5 media groups with paid advertisers." And you know how much each have spent and how that doesn't effect my side of the job. Being that you've been on both ends of this situation. Wink

And I still slightly disagree in the sense you can't go wrong. Yes, every one of these bikes are quite good in their own right but as I've seen many times before, people still get ones that don't suit them and it hampers/makes them struggle for months. By example, I have a close riding buddy who spent ten years jumping back and forth between Honda and Yamahas each year. He could never find what he was chasing and after a few big crashes and frustrations with his bikes, he considered quitting. After listening to me bug him for three years to try a Kawasaki because I thought it would suite his style, he's now back in love with moto and has found "his bike".

Yes, it's not going to be that gnarly of a moment for all guys but I personally believe there's bikes that suite riders more than others and if they find that right one, it can make their entire riding experience more enjoyable. Ultimately, that's what I think Shootouts share the most when it comes to how we break down and share the opinion of each rider, I want the end user to find that bike that is right for them.
Zaugg wrote:
I can agree with that...just don't tell us your favorite bike. Food for thought using your example...you think your buddy would like the new Yamaha...or more...
I can agree with that...just don't tell us your favorite bike.

Food for thought using your example...you think your buddy would like the new Yamaha...or more specifically...the new Kawi. I feel your style of conducting these shootouts is more conducive to providing data and then you ruin it by interjecting opinion.

Give consumers the flexibility to make their own opinion base on the data you provide. The information shouldn't be sullied by opinion. Take that concept of helping your buddy and apply that to Shootouts. Only tell us the strengths and weaknesses of each bike.

Leave the opinion out, because if your buddy didn't listen to you, he might have bought a Honda last year or a Yamaha this year and still hate riding.

To support your point and further bolster mine; I had a buddy who only likes yellow. Was in the market for a new bike and I suggested he look outside his comfort zone because the yellow bikes are falling behind. He entertained the idea and at the end of the day, bought LAST YEAR's yellow bike and is pretty darn happy with it. The bike that got last place in everyone's shootout. Again, using the data, he determined this bike fit HIS needs not the needs based on opinion.

Lean heavy on the data and less on opinion. You guys make great efforts to showcase the data from LitPro, dynos, and stats. Knowing the winner only validates their purchase, allows people to puff up their chest in brand loyalty, or slam another brand because they didn't get top honors (oh how the mighty have fallen syndrome).

Now...how about those flip flops

Shootout is built around opinion, it's not a buyers guide. If we're going off pure data, the Husqvarna and KTM were on opposite ends of the spectrum for average lap times. Data is useful in moto but there's so many variables that ultimately a rider wants what he wants.

Strengths and weaknesses of each bike are still opinion based. What I see as a strength can be seen as a weakness by another rider. Ultimately our Shootout leaves more than just my opinion so riders can find someone they relate to.

"Leave the opinion out, because if your buddy didn't listen to you, he might have bought a Honda last year or a Yamaha this year and still hate riding."

This doesn't make much sense to me, opinion helped him make the right choice, not the wrong choice.

Bikes are developed around test riders opinion, not as much by data...
1
8/17/2018 11:25am
I am glad it see that vital went at this test with an un-biased opinion. Nice to see the Japanese manufactures really step up their game again. This will just push the sport forward even more.
ML512
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8/17/2018 11:26am
msp332 wrote:
Thanks for the great shootout! What specifically does Alta need to do to get into these shootouts? You mentioned Gas Gas, Beta, and TM, but Alta...
Thanks for the great shootout!

What specifically does Alta need to do to get into these shootouts? You mentioned Gas Gas, Beta, and TM, but Alta has motocross models and wants to participate. I'd love to see the LitPro data alone.
I'm talking to them about getting into Shootout, so far it's more up to them to get us a bike to evaluate with and see what Shootout we want to put it in and having them come down to support it.
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mx510
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8/17/2018 11:28am
I was told on Vital forums that the reverse engine Yamaha 450 could never win a shootout and is the "Blue pig".
8/17/2018 11:29am
ML512 wrote:
Not too often as I typically don’t get to keep all these bikes every year after a Shootout and we don’t have enough regular testers to...
Not too often as I typically don’t get to keep all these bikes every year after a Shootout and we don’t have enough regular testers to achieve these higher timetables. I typically knock 50 hours or so for two or three different bikes each year, but I’m unable to ride enough to spread to many more machines with my other duties. It’s soemthing we’d like to do more of in the future though.
Feel free to ship me that Kawi or Suzuki. I'll rack up some hours and give feedback. Wink
ML512
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12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
54th
8/17/2018 11:34am
Feel free to ship me that Kawi or Suzuki. I'll rack up some hours and give feedback. Wink
I'll send you a KTM or Husqvarna. TongueLaughing Sorry, I had to say it.
2
8/17/2018 11:39am
ML512 wrote:
I'll send you a KTM or Husqvarna. TongueLaughing Sorry, I had to say it.
Grinning Anybody want to trade their '19 Kawi for a KTM or Husky? Anyone? Wink
2
loftyair
Posts
2769
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
8/17/2018 11:46am
Cost should or could be a leveling factor. The Austrian bikes at 11k is close to Max. While the rm could use 4k to make improvements, although time, still at same cost as more expensive bike.
ML512
Posts
15463
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
54th
8/17/2018 11:49am
loftyair wrote:
Cost should or could be a leveling factor. The Austrian bikes at 11k is close to Max. While the rm could use 4k to make improvements...
Cost should or could be a leveling factor. The Austrian bikes at 11k is close to Max. While the rm could use 4k to make improvements, although time, still at same cost as more expensive bike.
The MSRP from least to most is around $800. Suzuki going to $2000 rebates on a 2018 model after a few months on the market isn't considerable because these amounts change so heavily from dealer to dealer.
2
loftyair
Posts
2769
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
8/17/2018 12:17pm
loftyair wrote:
Cost should or could be a leveling factor. The Austrian bikes at 11k is close to Max. While the rm could use 4k to make improvements...
Cost should or could be a leveling factor. The Austrian bikes at 11k is close to Max. While the rm could use 4k to make improvements, although time, still at same cost as more expensive bike.
ML512 wrote:
The MSRP from least to most is around $800. Suzuki going to $2000 rebates on a 2018 model after a few months on the market isn't...
The MSRP from least to most is around $800. Suzuki going to $2000 rebates on a 2018 model after a few months on the market isn't considerable because these amounts change so heavily from dealer to dealer.
Oh wow. I thought the cost was way different. I guess you could still factor that in though. Like the yam comes with app, so to make a cheaper bike cost closer, buy one for that. Just a suggestion. Also, little stuff like bars and such, no one keeps bars they don't like, tires too. Little stuff.
BobPA
Posts
8029
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
8/17/2018 12:17pm
I need to ride on of these new Kawasaki's. Was eye balling one last week at the dealer. Not going to lie, may have been rubbing my zipper a bit.
3
1
Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
8/17/2018 12:49pm
I'm buying a new 450 this year. Rode a 18 RM and loved the way it turned and handled.

I would like a bike with similar handling with e-start.

ML, what bike did you think turned similar to the RM?
1
skeef
Posts
1208
Joined
7/18/2018
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
1407th
8/17/2018 12:51pm
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a...
I was already in the process of selling my bike to try and pick up a 19 yzf 450, I was thinking it would be a 3rd/4th place this year and the Honda or ktm would win. Even more excited now! Thanks ML!

I'm curious if the current yzf still feels roomy enough for taller riders like myself? I'm 6'1 which isn't giant but enough to feel cramped up on some of the bikes. I liked the leg room the yzf 14-17 provided they just didn't turn well at all
Park Boys wrote:
I would like to know how taller riders feel about it as well. I'm 6'2 and my 15 YZ450f fits me better than any bike I...
I would like to know how taller riders feel about it as well. I'm 6'2 and my 15 YZ450f fits me better than any bike I have ever had or ridden. Would like to know if it's still roomy for us.
I am 6'2, I have found the 18' yamaha feels much better than the 14-17, there is more room to move your legs up in turns which is a huge problem for me. Standing up right was not the most comfortable, but then again it never really was for me. Although I never owned an 18 I just rode my buddies around the track for a couple hours. I also agree though that it is unbelievable how much better the yamaha feels than KTM/husq or honda for us taller guys. Sucks but it is the way it is.
8/17/2018 12:53pm
Joko wrote:
ML, Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern...
ML,
Do you plan to provide a durability review at progressive time milestones, i.e. 25 - 150 hours? Foreman52’s post in the race shop draws concern on his 18YZ450F mechanical issues....thanks
I’ll admit I’m biased but I still think Yamaha makes the most reliable bikes. Honda is right there as well. I’d trust my life (actually do sometimes) with any Yamaha or Honda vehicles. I dont think you hear as many complaints on forums about them since the owners are probably out riding. In my experience, a large percentage of Yamaha owners are older, well off financially and pay cash for their toys more often. They are also like me and more brand loyal. Just my perception from over twenty years in the power sports industry and as a consumer. It also looks like Yamaha is well represented on this forum based on this poll from not long ago. Kind of a quiet majority since you would swear based on what is said on this forum that they would be near the bottom.

3
2
8/17/2018 12:56pm
Oh and it goes without saying that I’m pretty stoked with the results. Great job ML and Vital crew. Can’t wait for the 250 shootout.
1

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