Will Texas ever host another pro national?

early
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6/7/2018 12:55pm
Obviously I wasn't counting Hangtown, Glen Helen, Lakewood, and Washougal. I eyeballed the distance to Southwick and it's 536 miles. That's around 6 hours out here...
Obviously I wasn't counting Hangtown, Glen Helen, Lakewood, and Washougal. I eyeballed the distance to Southwick and it's 536 miles. That's around 6 hours out here in Texas where we have 80/85 MPH speed limits and miles of ranch land. On the east coast, not so much. Google maps says 8 hours. We can count that one as "or so". Millville is a little farther at slightly over 800 miles. Google says 13 hours for that one. It's certainly not a West Coast or Southern race.

How about we look at the map and count how many races are south of a line drawn across the country using the Oklahoma/Nebraska border. I count Glen Helen and Muddy Creek. Still lots of red south of that line that doesn't have access to a national and has a vibrant riding population. In Texas alone, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Houston, and San Antonio are all top 10 population counts in the US. And that's just counting the legal residents.Laughing

Look, I'm not trying to debate this. The equine has most likely expired for us. Texas may never get another Outdoor race. We went without one for years. But what about Georgia or Florida or Alabama? All 4 states have great racetracks and people that have been clamoring for years to have races.

Let's see what happens when NASCAR gets sold and the fallout from that hits Daytona Motorsports Group that holds the rights to the series. Imagine if the rumor is true and Disney ends up with it all. The only winner I see in that scenario is gonna be Feld and then our summers may be really boring.
I was just pointing out the population density in a 6 hour radius from Morgantown is a good amount of the population of the US. Which is why to takes a little longer to go then distances.

I agree there should be more southern rounds, but I do like alot of the historic locations on the calendar as I pointed out in another thread. Ideally I'd like to see 14 SX and 14 MX rounds with Southern rounds in May.
6/7/2018 1:00pm
I like how he says Millville is a 13 hour drive, which is more than double what he claimed 75% of the nationals were but apparently still counts?
DC
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6/7/2018 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 1:10pm
Texas has two supercross races, the entire northeast (Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and all up through New England) has one. Scheduling for both SX and MX all has more to do with weather than population. Supercross races run from January through early May, and the weather is often brutal in the northeast (both Indy and Minneapolis were run with blizzard conditions outside, but fortunately were domed stadiums). The nationals run from mid-May to late August. It's hot outside--really hot in places like Texas--and the turnouts at Freestone were badly affected by that.

I hope we can find a place in Texas again (or maybe go back to Freestone at some point) but it has to happen in the heat of the summer, and that has affected the success of a lot of motocross races all along the southern part of the country. I'm not sure how to change the fact that most people don't like being out in the sun all day when it's really hot, unless they are on a lake or beach.

And Millville is way, way more than 13 hours from Morgantown. Four races are within a six-hour drive: High Point, Muddy Creek, Budds Creek and Ironman.

DC
Racer X
6/7/2018 1:19pm
Besides the heat, tracks like Freestone were terrible for the spectators, too flat, no sight lines. I know there is some hilly country in Texas, not sure if any of the national level tracks have much elevation or not...

The Shop

kkawboy14
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6/7/2018 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 1:22pm
F1 Austin track! Circuit of the Americas
Johnny Depp
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6/7/2018 1:24pm
The West Coast swing as the starting point uses up the milder weather dates, and they don't need the help with weather.
DC
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6/7/2018 1:34pm
F1 Austin track! Circuit of the Americas

I actually went there and had a look around with Mel Harder when he was running COTA. It's a beautiful place, and Austin a great town, but it would still be mighty hot in late summer.

DC
Racer X
6/7/2018 1:36pm
I like how he says Millville is a 13 hour drive, which is more than double what he claimed 75% of the nationals were but apparently...
I like how he says Millville is a 13 hour drive, which is more than double what he claimed 75% of the nationals were but apparently still counts?
Living in Texas tends to skew one's view of distances. I can drive 6 hours east or west and I'm still in Texas.

According to the Texas Almanac, the Lone Star State extends 801 straight-line miles from north to south and 773 miles from east to west. Add a few more miles to that if your driving.

And the closest outdoor national to me is Thunder Valley, which is a 14 hour drive from San Antonio. 941 miles.

BTW, I'm not a Texas native. I was more than a little shocked at how far apart everything is out here.

Mia
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6/7/2018 1:41pm
Monster mountain Alabama.
DC
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6/7/2018 1:43pm
DavetheVintageGuy, I drove from El Paso to Kevin Windham's house in Mississippi on the lower route and was also shocked by how far apart things are in Texas. It took two full days but we were in a '67 Lincoln Continental and in no hurry. It's a great, big place.

DC
Racer X
Mia
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6/7/2018 1:44pm
6/7/2018 1:54pm
DC wrote:
DavetheVintageGuy, I drove from El Paso to Kevin Windham's house in Mississippi on the lower route and was also shocked by how far apart things are...
DavetheVintageGuy, I drove from El Paso to Kevin Windham's house in Mississippi on the lower route and was also shocked by how far apart things are in Texas. It took two full days but we were in a '67 Lincoln Continental and in no hurry. It's a great, big place.

DC
Racer X
Ah yes, "scenic" I10.Whistling

Used to drive San Antonio to Tallahassee 2-3 times a year. With toddlers.

I've almost recovered 20 years later.Tongue
DPW
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6/7/2018 1:55pm
reopen Mosier Valley
Johnny Depp
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6/7/2018 2:23pm
DC wrote:
F1 Austin track! Circuit of the Americas I actually went there and had a look around with Mel Harder when he was running COTA. It's a...
F1 Austin track! Circuit of the Americas

I actually went there and had a look around with Mel Harder when he was running COTA. It's a beautiful place, and Austin a great town, but it would still be mighty hot in late summer.

DC
Racer X
No problem, make it the 1st race of the season, perfect weather then.
mb60
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6/7/2018 2:36pm
zehn wrote:
From injuries sustained training for or racing motocross.... No adverse conditions? Even been to Glen Helen National or High Point? It can be every bit as...
From injuries sustained training for or racing motocross....

No adverse conditions? Even been to Glen Helen National or High Point? It can be every bit as hot as Texas.
You should come on down and live a summer in Texas. LOL

93 degrees at 11 pm in August yea somehow Glen Helen and High Point not so much. (:
6/7/2018 2:41pm
zehn wrote:
From injuries sustained training for or racing motocross.... No adverse conditions? Even been to Glen Helen National or High Point? It can be every bit as...
From injuries sustained training for or racing motocross....

No adverse conditions? Even been to Glen Helen National or High Point? It can be every bit as hot as Texas.
mb60 wrote:
You should come on down and live a summer in Texas. LOL 93 degrees at 11 pm in August yea somehow Glen Helen and High Point...
You should come on down and live a summer in Texas. LOL

93 degrees at 11 pm in August yea somehow Glen Helen and High Point not so much. (:
We can find him a nice villa in Laredo for August. Worst place on Earth.
ktmdan
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6/7/2018 2:41pm
Regarding running a nat at cycle ranch...
Is that track long enough and wide enough for a national? Serious question, I don't know.. And where the hell would the spectators sit?
I wonder if they would have enough parking if they flattened the vet track.

I think a reason Freestone had issues was that it wasn't really near anything, including an airport or hospital...I know first hand because I had to take a whirlybird all the way to Parkland from there.

Cycle ranch is within 3 hours of 3 of the top 11 most populated cities in the country. and about 4.5 hours from Dallas... I guess you could say the same for Freestone but geez there's just nothing cool at all within the vicinity of Wortham, TX.
6/7/2018 2:56pm
I like how he says Millville is a 13 hour drive, which is more than double what he claimed 75% of the nationals were but apparently...
I like how he says Millville is a 13 hour drive, which is more than double what he claimed 75% of the nationals were but apparently still counts?
Living in Texas tends to skew one's view of distances. I can drive 6 hours east or west and I'm still in Texas. According to the...
Living in Texas tends to skew one's view of distances. I can drive 6 hours east or west and I'm still in Texas.

According to the Texas Almanac, the Lone Star State extends 801 straight-line miles from north to south and 773 miles from east to west. Add a few more miles to that if your driving.

And the closest outdoor national to me is Thunder Valley, which is a 14 hour drive from San Antonio. 941 miles.

BTW, I'm not a Texas native. I was more than a little shocked at how far apart everything is out here.

Lived in the DFW metroplex my entire life. A 60 mile drive isn't even questioned. Driving 2 or 3 hours (Dallas to Austin or Houston) ain't no thang. I laugh when people scoff at 20 or 30 minute drives or think driving 3 hours is a road trip.
Johnny Depp
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6/7/2018 3:10pm
A few overheads:

Rio Bravo - Houston
https://youtu.be/5IRHSq7VOhU

Cycle Ranch - San Antonio


Swan - Tyler


Murphy's - Red Rock (Austin)


Spoaks - Lockhart (Austin)


kage173
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6/7/2018 3:15pm
DC wrote:
Texas has two supercross races, the entire northeast (Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and all up through New England) has one. Scheduling for both SX...
Texas has two supercross races, the entire northeast (Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and all up through New England) has one. Scheduling for both SX and MX all has more to do with weather than population. Supercross races run from January through early May, and the weather is often brutal in the northeast (both Indy and Minneapolis were run with blizzard conditions outside, but fortunately were domed stadiums). The nationals run from mid-May to late August. It's hot outside--really hot in places like Texas--and the turnouts at Freestone were badly affected by that.

I hope we can find a place in Texas again (or maybe go back to Freestone at some point) but it has to happen in the heat of the summer, and that has affected the success of a lot of motocross races all along the southern part of the country. I'm not sure how to change the fact that most people don't like being out in the sun all day when it's really hot, unless they are on a lake or beach.

And Millville is way, way more than 13 hours from Morgantown. Four races are within a six-hour drive: High Point, Muddy Creek, Budds Creek and Ironman.

DC
Racer X
Yeah I totally get this. Everybody talks about the riders dealing with the heat, but that isn't the issue. Living in the DFW area there are plenty of great tracks (way better than Freestone in my mind), but am I going to drag the wife and two kids out to the track all day to watch other people race in that heat? They would be miserable in the middle of the day. In fact, there is an Indy car race and a stadium trophy truck this weekend at the speedway with beautiful facilities and I'm not going because it's too hot.

That being said most of the summer series races are night races and a lot of the tracks have lights, so maybe that's something to think about. It would be cool to throw in a night race for the outdoors.
mb60
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6/7/2018 3:15pm
We can find him a nice villa in Laredo for August. Worst place on Earth.
I love it when I hear people talk about it being hot in other parts of the country. LOL

Try getting in your car at 5 pm on a nice hot sunny day in Texas. You might think you just sat down in Hell !!!!! LOL
Johnny Depp
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6/7/2018 3:28pm
3 Palms - Houston



newmann
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6/7/2018 4:54pm
Was out writing an estimate on a lightly used Ford truck today when I noticed the outside temp by the mileage. There is hot, there is Texas hot and then there is Southeast Texas Hot.


zookrider62!
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6/7/2018 5:10pm
SWAN

Paw Paw
Would love to go a national that starts 7 hours behind schedule
VetMX.com
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6/7/2018 5:21pm
Three Palms FTW. I would say Rio but parking would be an issue.
Braaaphole
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6/7/2018 6:41pm
Rio would make for one boring pro race, the track is far too easy and small. We raced out there just a couple of months ago and there was just under 300 entries. It was completely full, I mean slammed. There's no way they could get all the factory rigs in there.
3 Palms does have the space and facilities to pull it off and the track would be insanely rough by the final moto, could be fun to see. Still not what I'd call a national caliber track though.
I think Freedom would be better than both Rio or 3 Palms.

Swan, Cycle Ranch, Oak Hill, and Freestone are the only tracks I'm aware of that I'd say are national caliber. Maybe Red Rock.

A race at COTA would be badass, I've got connections there haha. Funny thing is, they may be open to it. They try to host as much as they can there. It could be the ideal location for a US GP round.
6/7/2018 7:18pm
ktmdan wrote:
Regarding running a nat at cycle ranch... Is that track long enough and wide enough for a national? Serious question, I don't know.. And where the...
Regarding running a nat at cycle ranch...
Is that track long enough and wide enough for a national? Serious question, I don't know.. And where the hell would the spectators sit?
I wonder if they would have enough parking if they flattened the vet track.

I think a reason Freestone had issues was that it wasn't really near anything, including an airport or hospital...I know first hand because I had to take a whirlybird all the way to Parkland from there.

Cycle ranch is within 3 hours of 3 of the top 11 most populated cities in the country. and about 4.5 hours from Dallas... I guess you could say the same for Freestone but geez there's just nothing cool at all within the vicinity of Wortham, TX.
Cycle Ranch can be configured for about a 3 minute lap time and is plenty wide. When the 4 stroke nationals ran there back in the early 2000's 40 pros on the track was not an issue. With that dirt plenty of lines form without it becoming a rut fest. They at one time offered to buy the field next door to add additional parking and I'm sure that the ranchers around them would lease them additional acreage if they needed it.

Plenty of spectating areas and with the elevation changes you can actually see over half the track from pretty much anywhere.

The major problem with Cycle Ranch is the narrow road to get into and out of it. I'm pretty sure that is what held it back when they were seriously pursuing a National. It has been paved since that time. Still, it handled a good sized crowd for the 4 stroke races back in the day and they have had mud runs that drew a claimed 10,000 folks to the property. Logistically, the road could be converted to one way in from the Floresville side and one way out heading towards Houston.

The beauty of having it at Cycle Ranch is that San Antonio is a tourist destination. Plenty of hotel rooms, lot of restaurants, the River Walk, decent airport, and the track is only 30-45 minutes from the center of town.

Freestone was a failure because you couldn't see anything. Almost everyone I talked to that went the first year (as I did) said they wouldn't come back because they couldn't see the racing on more than one corner or straight at a time. It wasn't a bad racetrack, but it sucked to be a spectator there. God Bless Tony Miller, he did the best with what he had and nobody in Texas wanted it to be more successful than he did. It truly was a track that was better to watch on TV than to attend in person.

ktmdan
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6/7/2018 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 7:31pm
Cycle Ranch can be configured for about a 3 minute lap time and is plenty wide. When the 4 stroke nationals ran there back in the...
Cycle Ranch can be configured for about a 3 minute lap time and is plenty wide. When the 4 stroke nationals ran there back in the early 2000's 40 pros on the track was not an issue. With that dirt plenty of lines form without it becoming a rut fest. They at one time offered to buy the field next door to add additional parking and I'm sure that the ranchers around them would lease them additional acreage if they needed it.

Plenty of spectating areas and with the elevation changes you can actually see over half the track from pretty much anywhere.

The major problem with Cycle Ranch is the narrow road to get into and out of it. I'm pretty sure that is what held it back when they were seriously pursuing a National. It has been paved since that time. Still, it handled a good sized crowd for the 4 stroke races back in the day and they have had mud runs that drew a claimed 10,000 folks to the property. Logistically, the road could be converted to one way in from the Floresville side and one way out heading towards Houston.

The beauty of having it at Cycle Ranch is that San Antonio is a tourist destination. Plenty of hotel rooms, lot of restaurants, the River Walk, decent airport, and the track is only 30-45 minutes from the center of town.

Freestone was a failure because you couldn't see anything. Almost everyone I talked to that went the first year (as I did) said they wouldn't come back because they couldn't see the racing on more than one corner or straight at a time. It wasn't a bad racetrack, but it sucked to be a spectator there. God Bless Tony Miller, he did the best with what he had and nobody in Texas wanted it to be more successful than he did. It truly was a track that was better to watch on TV than to attend in person.

Yeah I can only imagine what the people in that town would think of all the traffic and big rigs.

I would pay good money to see the best in the world hit that single down the hill, sharp right up the hill and then sharp right back down the hill.

edit: The best of who's left racing in the U.S. series. Smile
6/7/2018 7:35pm
The folks in Floresville love the track. It's money to them and they embrace the traffic.

I got to see Pastrana and Reynard ride the track with each other one day. And Andrew Short was a pretty regular visitor when he was on the Suzuki 125. It's a level of speed that has to be seen in person for sure.

Taylor415
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6/7/2018 7:40pm
Texplex has the facility for it just not the track yet.

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