Tomac vs Herlings

Renner153
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Renner153 5/21/2018 4:48pm
5/21/2018 4:48pm
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Desalle?
Renner153 wrote:
Him too. I didn’t really mean to single out cairoli and gajser, but those are my two favorite gp guys. But there are 5 guys I...
Him too. I didn’t really mean to single out cairoli and gajser, but those are my two favorite gp guys. But there are 5 guys I could have named including those two
kkawboy14 wrote:
Eli just showed Sunday that he has another gear he can go to if he wants to. Herlings spanked him yes, at the last race in...
Eli just showed Sunday that he has another gear he can go to if he wants to.
Herlings spanked him yes, at the last race in a looooong series when Tomac had nothing to gain by pulling out the beast mode.
I would say Herlings only knows wide open! Eli seems to real it back some so as to survive
I’ll still take herlings to whoop tomac 9/10 on any type of terrain.
crusty_xx 5/21/2018 4:59pm
5/21/2018 4:59pm
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
early wrote:
I posted this on page 2 of this thread but it's worth repeating. The top level of the GPs is consistent with the top level of...
I posted this on page 2 of this thread but it's worth repeating. The top level of the GPs is consistent with the top level of the US Nationals, JH is currently elevating that level there, but nobody is really able to match him anyway.

From page 2
JH is definitely on another level when it comes to MX, but anyone who thinks the level of the GPs in general is that much higher than the top of the US Nationals is just kidding themselves.

Musquin and Roczen were 2 of the 4 best talents of the GPs of the last 10 years. Although Kenny has been hurt he helped establish the level of the US competition from 13 to 16.

Tomac has beat all the current GP guys en route to winning 5 of 6 GP motos he's been in, 3 motos on tracks he's never seen. Sure they were in the US but isn't that what the GP guys are good at, traveling to races all around the world.

Let's also not forget that RV won GP motos and overalls when he really didn't give a shit about it.

Also the US riders consistently make a joke of the MX2 class when the tour comes here.
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20?
2015 he had a back issue
2016 close to a perfect season

Of course the MX2 class is a joke. There are only guys below 23 years.
Take away Osborne, both Martins, Savatgy, Plessinger, Smith, Mcelrath, Hampshire
See what you're left with? Cooper and Sexton vs Jonass and Prado. About equal I guess.

There is no "better" series.
Sometimes one side has more talented riders than the other. That's it.
If Herlings retired tomorrow the GPs are suddenly a lot weaker. Maybe in 2 years there's another guy on that level. Maybe not
plowboy
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plowboy 5/21/2018 5:35pm
5/21/2018 5:35pm
Renner153 wrote:
I’ll still take herlings to whoop tomac 9/10 on any type of terrain.
Not to hijack the thread but just noticed your location. I lived in Mulberry when I was a kid. Is it still a nasty shit hole? I kid, I Kid....good memories of running wild and free there. P.S. it was a loonngg time ago.
cable
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cable 5/21/2018 5:56pm
5/21/2018 5:56pm
Huge Tomac fan, but i think Herlings bike setup is worth 4 seconds.

The Shop

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mxridr
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mxridr 5/21/2018 6:23pm
5/21/2018 6:23pm
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA can beat Herlings on an outdoor mx track.
mxb2
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mxb2 5/21/2018 6:34pm
5/21/2018 6:34pm
mxridr wrote:
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA...
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA can beat Herlings on an outdoor mx track.
Tomac and anderson disagree.
early
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early 5/21/2018 6:38pm
5/21/2018 6:38pm
crusty_xx wrote:
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20? 2015 he had a back issue 2016...
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20?
2015 he had a back issue
2016 close to a perfect season

Of course the MX2 class is a joke. There are only guys below 23 years.
Take away Osborne, both Martins, Savatgy, Plessinger, Smith, Mcelrath, Hampshire
See what you're left with? Cooper and Sexton vs Jonass and Prado. About equal I guess.

There is no "better" series.
Sometimes one side has more talented riders than the other. That's it.
If Herlings retired tomorrow the GPs are suddenly a lot weaker. Maybe in 2 years there's another guy on that level. Maybe not
2 of the 4 best European riders of the last 10 years IMO are in the US not the GPs.

I never said the US was better, I said the top level of both series is similar with Herlings on top at the moment.
Stoop 5/21/2018 6:56pm
5/21/2018 6:56pm
I think Cole Seely sums up the mxgp series fairly well

Cole Seely: I really underestimated a lot of the MXGP guys. They are incredibly talented riders, which is crazy. I thought I’d be hanging in there. I didn’t think I’d be just waxing everybody out there, but I thought I can keep up with a lot of them. They are on another level, especially over here in Europe. I got to hand it to those guys. They are on another level than us right now.
cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 5/21/2018 7:11pm
5/21/2018 7:11pm
early wrote:
I posted this on page 2 of this thread but it's worth repeating. The top level of the GPs is consistent with the top level of...
I posted this on page 2 of this thread but it's worth repeating. The top level of the GPs is consistent with the top level of the US Nationals, JH is currently elevating that level there, but nobody is really able to match him anyway.

From page 2
JH is definitely on another level when it comes to MX, but anyone who thinks the level of the GPs in general is that much higher than the top of the US Nationals is just kidding themselves.

Musquin and Roczen were 2 of the 4 best talents of the GPs of the last 10 years. Although Kenny has been hurt he helped establish the level of the US competition from 13 to 16.

Tomac has beat all the current GP guys en route to winning 5 of 6 GP motos he's been in, 3 motos on tracks he's never seen. Sure they were in the US but isn't that what the GP guys are good at, traveling to races all around the world.

Let's also not forget that RV won GP motos and overalls when he really didn't give a shit about it.

Also the US riders consistently make a joke of the MX2 class when the tour comes here.
I could be wrong but RV won motos and overalls plural? My memory could be off but I remember him winning one of each maybe. He def wasn't into it agreed and 2013 RV would stomp a mudhole in any era rider save RC.
cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 5/21/2018 7:14pm
5/21/2018 7:14pm
DPR250R wrote:
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be...
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser, you know that thing we all rode growing up
boardinblunted 5/21/2018 7:14pm
5/21/2018 7:14pm
crusty_xx wrote:
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20? 2015 he had a back issue 2016...
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20?
2015 he had a back issue
2016 close to a perfect season

Of course the MX2 class is a joke. There are only guys below 23 years.
Take away Osborne, both Martins, Savatgy, Plessinger, Smith, Mcelrath, Hampshire
See what you're left with? Cooper and Sexton vs Jonass and Prado. About equal I guess.

There is no "better" series.
Sometimes one side has more talented riders than the other. That's it.
If Herlings retired tomorrow the GPs are suddenly a lot weaker. Maybe in 2 years there's another guy on that level. Maybe not
Why would you take Plessinger, smith and Hampshire out of the equation? They are all under 23 years old. How could you leave out Forkner and Cianciarulo. Those two are fast!

Funny how this Tomac vs Herlings has turned into a gp vs national debate. I don’t think there is a way to determine what series is better than the other. I’m a big Tomac fan but its hard to argue with Herlings last visit to the US.

I’ve got my fingers crossed to see an all out battle between the two at mxon.
boardinblunted 5/21/2018 7:22pm
5/21/2018 7:22pm
cbuehler767 wrote:
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser...
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser, you know that thing we all rode growing up
The title doesn’t say anything about motocross only. Just says Tomac vs Herlings. None cares about super cross lmao.
DPR250R
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DPR250R 5/21/2018 7:30pm
5/21/2018 7:30pm
cbuehler767 wrote:
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser...
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser, you know that thing we all rode growing up
WOLF 918
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WOLF 918 5/21/2018 7:39pm
5/21/2018 7:39pm
mxridr wrote:
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA...
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA can beat Herlings on an outdoor mx track.
mxb2 wrote:
Tomac and anderson disagree.
Cooper webb might have something to say about this also.
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cbuehler767 5/21/2018 7:41pm
5/21/2018 7:41pm
boardinblunted wrote:
The title doesn’t say anything about motocross only. Just says Tomac vs Herlings. None cares about super cross lmao.
LoL you actually got me there it is jus Tomac vs. Herlings. But no really who cares about Energy Drink Cross? After the first 4-5 races of SX its the same old boring shit and the shine of a new season has worn off. I do love how it gets all the top guys hurt though here's hoping they make it a 24 race series
mxb2
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mxb2 5/22/2018 12:30am
5/22/2018 12:30am
mxridr wrote:
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA...
Herlings is a damn freak of nature. Rides a 450 like its an 85cc mini bike. It hurts to admit, but no rider in the USA can beat Herlings on an outdoor mx track.
mxb2 wrote:
Tomac and anderson disagree.
WOLF 918 wrote:
Cooper webb might have something to say about this also.
And forkner lol
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Bonanza69 5/22/2018 2:52am
5/22/2018 2:52am
Stoop wrote:
I think Cole Seely sums up the mxgp series fairly well Cole Seely: I really underestimated a lot of the MXGP guys. They are incredibly talented...
I think Cole Seely sums up the mxgp series fairly well

Cole Seely: I really underestimated a lot of the MXGP guys. They are incredibly talented riders, which is crazy. I thought I’d be hanging in there. I didn’t think I’d be just waxing everybody out there, but I thought I can keep up with a lot of them. They are on another level, especially over here in Europe. I got to hand it to those guys. They are on another level than us right now.
Vital-warriors know better.Wink
Renner153
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Renner153 5/22/2018 3:57am
5/22/2018 3:57am
Renner153 wrote:
I’ll still take herlings to whoop tomac 9/10 on any type of terrain.
plowboy wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but just noticed your location. I lived in Mulberry when I was a kid. Is it still a nasty shit hole...
Not to hijack the thread but just noticed your location. I lived in Mulberry when I was a kid. Is it still a nasty shit hole? I kid, I Kid....good memories of running wild and free there. P.S. it was a loonngg time ago.
It’s exactly the same as it’s been since 96

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crusty_xx 5/22/2018 4:01am
5/22/2018 4:01am
crusty_xx wrote:
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20? 2015 he had a back issue 2016...
What exactly did Kenny help establish by winning the highest title there is in American motocross at age 20?
2015 he had a back issue
2016 close to a perfect season

Of course the MX2 class is a joke. There are only guys below 23 years.
Take away Osborne, both Martins, Savatgy, Plessinger, Smith, Mcelrath, Hampshire
See what you're left with? Cooper and Sexton vs Jonass and Prado. About equal I guess.

There is no "better" series.
Sometimes one side has more talented riders than the other. That's it.
If Herlings retired tomorrow the GPs are suddenly a lot weaker. Maybe in 2 years there's another guy on that level. Maybe not
boardinblunted wrote:
Why would you take Plessinger, smith and Hampshire out of the equation? They are all under 23 years old. How could you leave out Forkner and...
Why would you take Plessinger, smith and Hampshire out of the equation? They are all under 23 years old. How could you leave out Forkner and Cianciarulo. Those two are fast!

Funny how this Tomac vs Herlings has turned into a gp vs national debate. I don’t think there is a way to determine what series is better than the other. I’m a big Tomac fan but its hard to argue with Herlings last visit to the US.

I’ve got my fingers crossed to see an all out battle between the two at mxon.
I didn't name all fast mx2 guys either. Cooper and sexton happen to be the top 2 of the guy's left from hangtown...
Sorry for not googling for birth dates. Pretty sure the 3 you named are at least close to the mx2 age limit though.
I think you got my point
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Daddyfatsac 5/22/2018 4:54am
5/22/2018 4:54am
TDeath21 wrote:
Yeah I honestly saw enough last year at Ironman to know who the top MX rider in the world is. This year only compounds that thought...
Yeah I honestly saw enough last year at Ironman to know who the top MX rider in the world is. This year only compounds that thought. He was far more dominant there than anyone had been all year and it was at a National he came into on a borrowed bike on a track he didn’t know at all. Tomac was the only one even close all day and he wadded trying to keep up before playing it safe in moto 2.
Mushman wrote:
True... They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes...
True...

They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes fastest qualifyer in both sessions and has 1/1 moto's). Now you can argue Tomac was riding for the championnship, but he also waxed Musquin who was better than Tomac over the last half of the season and he was not holding anything back. He also passed the whole US national field like they were riding mininbikes.

Anyway it would be good to see Tomac v Herlings v Roczen all fit and dialled in. But the fact remains, Herlings turned up for two meeting in the US last year and he was fastest in EVERY qualifying session and had moto scores of 1,1,2,1 - hard to argue against that in the rational world.
SCR wrote:
Tomacs record against the Superior GP riders is 1,1,1,1,1,3.
Debate over.

Herlings is a monster and may be the stronger MX guy right now. With today's level of training and how specific they are tailored for different disciplines, SX puts ET at a massive disadvantage. That's where the money is unfortunately. All that said the score is the score, until it changes you can't give the crown to JH.
crusty_xx 5/22/2018 5:52am
5/22/2018 5:52am
Mushman wrote:
True... They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes...
True...

They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes fastest qualifyer in both sessions and has 1/1 moto's). Now you can argue Tomac was riding for the championnship, but he also waxed Musquin who was better than Tomac over the last half of the season and he was not holding anything back. He also passed the whole US national field like they were riding mininbikes.

Anyway it would be good to see Tomac v Herlings v Roczen all fit and dialled in. But the fact remains, Herlings turned up for two meeting in the US last year and he was fastest in EVERY qualifying session and had moto scores of 1,1,2,1 - hard to argue against that in the rational world.
SCR wrote:
Tomacs record against the Superior GP riders is 1,1,1,1,1,3.
Daddyfatsac wrote:
Debate over. Herlings is a monster and may be the stronger MX guy right now. With today's level of training and how specific they are tailored...
Debate over.

Herlings is a monster and may be the stronger MX guy right now. With today's level of training and how specific they are tailored for different disciplines, SX puts ET at a massive disadvantage. That's where the money is unfortunately. All that said the score is the score, until it changes you can't give the crown to JH.
Lol
That's like saying herlings score against the superior 450 class is 1-1

Tomac has also raced 4 mxdn motos against the gp guys but let's just leave them away and just count the wins
kb228
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kb228 5/22/2018 6:02am
5/22/2018 6:02am
cbuehler767 wrote:
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser...
Nobody gives a fuck about Stupudcross. Tell us who is your day Monster Truck driver while we are at it? This is about the best motocrosser, you know that thing we all rode growing up
boardinblunted wrote:
The title doesn’t say anything about motocross only. Just says Tomac vs Herlings. None cares about super cross lmao.
TV ratings, media coverage, rider paychecks, and the fact that riders write off or sit out outdoor championships for supercross focus shows that its more important. Actually its THE most important dirtbike championship.
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NVA57 5/22/2018 6:28am
5/22/2018 6:28am
Both can win either side of the pond. Both are probably on par with each other with Herlings having the mental edge.
RG95
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RG95 5/22/2018 6:45am
5/22/2018 6:45am Edited Date/Time 5/22/2018 10:25am
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
DPR250R wrote:
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be...
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
I wouldn't call Herlings a second tier rider after what he proved at Ironman 2017 and Jacksonville 2017.
And his speed is basically doubled now Woohoo
And what the heck is supercross, never heard.
Barrett57
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Barrett57 5/22/2018 6:49am
5/22/2018 6:49am
'Insert stupid comment declaring unconditional love for either Tomac or Herlings here'
Forty
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Forty 5/22/2018 6:58am
5/22/2018 6:58am
Looking forward to the showdown. ET can ride the wheels off, we've seen it and if that Eli shows up it will be incredible.

I believe Herlings has advanced his game a bit this year. I may have not noticed it before but his style seems more angry and determined this year. If he can take AC out mentally then this years championship is his because noone else has his level every race.



Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 5/22/2018 7:00am
5/22/2018 7:00am
Stating sx don’t count is like saying motogp don’t count while discussing road bike racing.
NYmotocross 5/22/2018 7:13am
5/22/2018 7:13am
Yes Herlings is great, but im sorry Musquin, Baggett, Barcia, Roczen, Anderson are all championship contenders. Meaning it is way harder to win races here in the US if you fuck up at the start. Don't tell me Fevbre, Gasjer, Desalle, Paulin are legitimate contenders, they all had their moments when Herlings or Carioli were either injured or started from the back to later get looked like tier 2 riders, because they are tier 2 riders. Tomac has a way harder pace to deal with/more riders at top level, if he does not get off the gate good and has made it look relatively easy most of his career.

That being said Marvin, Tomac, Bagget, Barcia, Herlings, Carioli, Roczen, Anderson have all shown elite pace. Do the math, tell me which series is harder to dominate, and youll reconsider who the best in the world is. Herlings would be injured every season trying to make up for his mistakes in the US, his competition is overrated imo which doesn't take anything away from him, he can win races here. Just not so easily like hes doing now, Americans aren't afraid to put you on the floor/fight back, when you are arrogant and thats the difference
DPR250R
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DPR250R 5/22/2018 7:16am
5/22/2018 7:16am
RG95 wrote:
I wouldn't call Herlings a second tier rider after what he proved at Ironman 2017 and Jacksonville 2017. And his speed is basically doubled now :woohoo...
I wouldn't call Herlings a second tier rider after what he proved at Ironman 2017 and Jacksonville 2017.
And his speed is basically doubled now Woohoo
And what the heck is supercross, never heard.
But it is ok to call Tomac a second tier rider? Seems odd when I am pretty sure he has more big bike championships than Herlings and is fast in a wider array of disciplines.

I must have missed Herrings showing up at Unadilla.

Anyway... both are great riders and fun to watch. Hope we get to see them go head to head many times.
mxb2
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mxb2 5/22/2018 7:23am
5/22/2018 7:23am
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
DPR250R wrote:
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be...
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
RG95 wrote:
I wouldn't call Herlings a second tier rider after what he proved at Ironman 2017 and Jacksonville 2017. And his speed is basically doubled now :woohoo...
I wouldn't call Herlings a second tier rider after what he proved at Ironman 2017 and Jacksonville 2017.
And his speed is basically doubled now Woohoo
And what the heck is supercross, never heard.
I guess you didnt hear, herlings didnt race unadilla either.

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