Tomac vs Herlings

Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 5/20/2018 8:05pm
5/20/2018 8:05pm
Renner153 wrote:
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli...
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli and gajser are closer to Eli than Eli is to herlings. Good luck to anyone trying to be herlings this year.
Desalle?
TDeath21
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TDeath21 5/20/2018 10:55pm
5/20/2018 10:55pm
Mushman wrote:
True... They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes...
True...

They raced last year 4 times in the US (with Herlings flying in a few days before Ironman on a borrowed bike and he goes fastest qualifyer in both sessions and has 1/1 moto's). Now you can argue Tomac was riding for the championnship, but he also waxed Musquin who was better than Tomac over the last half of the season and he was not holding anything back. He also passed the whole US national field like they were riding mininbikes.

Anyway it would be good to see Tomac v Herlings v Roczen all fit and dialled in. But the fact remains, Herlings turned up for two meeting in the US last year and he was fastest in EVERY qualifying session and had moto scores of 1,1,2,1 - hard to argue against that in the rational world.
SCR wrote:
Tomacs record against the Superior GP riders is 1,1,1,1,1,3.
shaffstall721 wrote:
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should...
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should have smoked him both motos.....
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman. He was nursing home the championship. But moto 1 he was going for it, rode over his head trying to keep up, and wadded. In that same second moto, Herlings was far more dominant than Tomac had been all year. If Tomac rode a GP round he’d maybe get top 5.
Gandorlf
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Gandorlf 5/21/2018 2:05am
5/21/2018 2:05am
SCR wrote:
Tomacs record against the Superior GP riders is 1,1,1,1,1,3.
shaffstall721 wrote:
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should...
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should have smoked him both motos.....
TDeath21 wrote:
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman...
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman. He was nursing home the championship. But moto 1 he was going for it, rode over his head trying to keep up, and wadded. In that same second moto, Herlings was far more dominant than Tomac had been all year. If Tomac rode a GP round he’d maybe get top 5.
Now I'm 100% sure you're either a troll or a 12 year old girl. Maybe a top 5? Get in the ocean
TDeath21
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TDeath21 5/21/2018 3:01am
5/21/2018 3:01am
shaffstall721 wrote:
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should...
Hahaha how quickly they forget. 5 for 6 with his only loss on a track that he no home field advantage on SAND where Herlings should have smoked him both motos.....
TDeath21 wrote:
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman...
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman. He was nursing home the championship. But moto 1 he was going for it, rode over his head trying to keep up, and wadded. In that same second moto, Herlings was far more dominant than Tomac had been all year. If Tomac rode a GP round he’d maybe get top 5.
Gandorlf wrote:
Now I'm 100% sure you're either a troll or a 12 year old girl. Maybe a top 5? Get in the ocean
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.

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Renner153
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Renner153 5/21/2018 3:24am
5/21/2018 3:24am
Renner153 wrote:
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli...
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli and gajser are closer to Eli than Eli is to herlings. Good luck to anyone trying to be herlings this year.
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Desalle?
Him too. I didn’t really mean to single out cairoli and gajser, but those are my two favorite gp guys. But there are 5 guys I could have named including those two
DoubleA
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DoubleA 5/21/2018 3:55am
5/21/2018 3:55am
Herlings beat Tomac at Ironman and Tomac beat herlings in a moto at USGP. Everyone knows they both have raw speed. But I feel Herlings would beat him in a championship because Tomac seems to have more off days than Herlings does. Beating someone in 1 race does not count. Would people sit here and say Anstie is better than Herlings because he beat him at MXON? Championships mean more than race wins, Tomac knows this the best.
FARANG
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FARANG 5/21/2018 4:30am
5/21/2018 4:30am
The World Championship is much stronger than the Nationals right now. Has been for a few years. Not sure why and don't really care. I don't think Supercross is the reason even though I'd love to blame that circus Monster show.

Herlings destroys Tomac in any outdoor series. Tomac would win at SX but who cares. Motocross is the sport. Supercross is the bastard love child.
early
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early 5/21/2018 5:03am
5/21/2018 5:03am
TDeath21 wrote:
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe...
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.
keinz
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keinz 5/21/2018 6:57am
5/21/2018 6:57am
Jeez, that last winter snow was white. And healthy Krock will be smoke them both
sozo
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sozo 5/21/2018 7:19am
5/21/2018 7:19am Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 7:21am
Good God it was the first race of the season and Tomac is thinking championship season ...

A few more races when Tomac is comfortable will be scary...

But while I’m here I call Zack Osborne 24-0 this year Woot..
BobbyM
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BobbyM 5/21/2018 8:13am
5/21/2018 8:13am
NYmotocross wrote:
It’s looking like tomac is out to prove he’s the best outdoor guy in the world, I don’t see herlings going 4 seconds a lap faster...
It’s looking like tomac is out to prove he’s the best outdoor guy in the world, I don’t see herlings going 4 seconds a lap faster than anyone else. This years MXON is going to be insane
It's obvious to even the casual mx fan that herlings is the FMOP, at this time, that much is certain.
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mxb2 5/21/2018 8:15am
5/21/2018 8:15am
TDeath21 wrote:
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman...
And against Herlings he is 1 and 3 so there’s that. ALL of which were on his home soil. I’ll give you moto 2 at Ironman. He was nursing home the championship. But moto 1 he was going for it, rode over his head trying to keep up, and wadded. In that same second moto, Herlings was far more dominant than Tomac had been all year. If Tomac rode a GP round he’d maybe get top 5.
Gandorlf wrote:
Now I'm 100% sure you're either a troll or a 12 year old girl. Maybe a top 5? Get in the ocean
TDeath21 wrote:
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe...
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.
Lol top 5 , you lost all creditabilty. Tomac and Herlings are the 2 best in the world right now.
Poppanator 5/21/2018 8:19am
5/21/2018 8:19am Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 8:20am
One thing is certain: Just like Herlings and Tomac know how to take MX to the next level, so does Vital forum members when it comes to stupid ?
Frank Tuesday 5/21/2018 10:11am
5/21/2018 10:11am
Maybe you all need to pool your money and put up a 500k purse for a 30min+2 1-on-1 motocross showdown. Same track, same time, no one else to get in the way. No excuses of bad starts, getting stuck behind other riders, no title worries, etc. Let them agree on a track so that they are happy neither has an unfair advantage based on the track.
ipbrew
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ipbrew 5/21/2018 1:36pm
5/21/2018 1:36pm
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:
The jabronies who say they don’t want Tomac at mxdn this year are crazy. Why wouldn’t you want to see the best of the best out...
The jabronies who say they don’t want Tomac at mxdn this year are crazy. Why wouldn’t you want to see the best of the best out there racing each other?
No kidding, go ahead, leave your fastest rider at home.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 5/21/2018 1:44pm
5/21/2018 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 1:44pm
Gandorlf wrote:
Now I'm 100% sure you're either a troll or a 12 year old girl. Maybe a top 5? Get in the ocean
TDeath21 wrote:
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe...
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.
mxb2 wrote:
Lol top 5 , you lost all creditabilty. Tomac and Herlings are the 2 best in the world right now.
No way would I rank Tomac above Cairoli when it comes to GP MX. So that puts him 3rd at best and that pack behind Cairoli is extremely bunched up and not far off of him. So my assessment really isn’t far off, if at all.
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sozo 5/21/2018 1:50pm
5/21/2018 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 1:51pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe...
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.
mxb2 wrote:
Lol top 5 , you lost all creditabilty. Tomac and Herlings are the 2 best in the world right now.
TDeath21 wrote:
No way would I rank Tomac above Cairoli when it comes to GP MX. So that puts him 3rd at best and that pack behind Cairoli...
No way would I rank Tomac above Cairoli when it comes to GP MX. So that puts him 3rd at best and that pack behind Cairoli is extremely bunched up and not far off of him. So my assessment really isn’t far off, if at all.
Truth...

WHEN Cairoli was in his prime Cairoli WAS probably a little better ....
How many MXGP championships does he have ... just a crazy good rider.
Motocross83 5/21/2018 2:06pm
5/21/2018 2:06pm
Not that his results were any better overall but Eli at his best still looked superior on the Honda imo. The Kawi has always looked heavy and cumbersome in comparison for Tomac, even when he's riding it very well (Hangtown). Jeffrey on the other hand looks the absolute picture of perfection these days - perfect combo of finesse and aggression, rider and machine melded. So put a gun to my head and lean to JH... probably... All that said you can NEVER count out a guy like ET. He can be just as terrifying as Jeffrey on his day, which I would say is much more likely round Red Bud.

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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 5/21/2018 2:52pm
5/21/2018 2:52pm
Renner153 wrote:
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli...
Herlings would wipe the floor with Eli this year. He was better than Eli last year and is on a completely different level this year. Cairoli and gajser are closer to Eli than Eli is to herlings. Good luck to anyone trying to be herlings this year.
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Desalle?
Renner153 wrote:
Him too. I didn’t really mean to single out cairoli and gajser, but those are my two favorite gp guys. But there are 5 guys I...
Him too. I didn’t really mean to single out cairoli and gajser, but those are my two favorite gp guys. But there are 5 guys I could have named including those two
Eli just showed Sunday that he has another gear he can go to if he wants to.
Herlings spanked him yes, at the last race in a looooong series when Tomac had nothing to gain by pulling out the beast mode.
I would say Herlings only knows wide open! Eli seems to real it back some so as to survive
Prejump
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Prejump 5/21/2018 2:57pm
5/21/2018 2:57pm
early wrote:
Classic Prejump, always hating on the US series.
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 5/21/2018 3:24pm
5/21/2018 3:24pm
early wrote:
Classic Prejump, always hating on the US series.
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
Although I do think the US field is the weakest it has been in quite sometime with regards to top tier riders, I disagree with that. Every extra challenge you throw in that GP guys go through, the US guys have one as well. Focusing on two disciplines, 9 month long season, adapting to the track all in one day, etc.
gerg
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gerg 5/21/2018 3:32pm
5/21/2018 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 4:02pm
So if Tomac races MXDN this year doesnt that make his (pathetic) excuse last year null and void?

Depends on what time of the month it's on I guess.


FWIW I can't wait to see them face off again at some stage will be epic.
Aussie_power_sports 5/21/2018 3:38pm
5/21/2018 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 3:59pm
Okay moto nerds. Who has the stats on everytime tomac and herlings have raced?

This doesnt seem right but its all I could find. But seems they havent raced each other at a des nations. Current score is 3-1 to herlings

2017
mxgp usa Eli 1 - Herlings 1
Ironman national Eli 0 - Herlings 2
mxb2
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mxb2 5/21/2018 3:49pm
5/21/2018 3:49pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe...
Yep. Maybe top five. He’s done nothing for me to believe he’d do any different on a GP course with a GP format. Herlings would wipe the floor with him. Cairoli would beat him most motos. He’d be battling in that 3rd-10th pack most the time. Eventually he’d probably wad up like he always does when he doesn’t have the outright speed to win and be out of the series.
mxb2 wrote:
Lol top 5 , you lost all creditabilty. Tomac and Herlings are the 2 best in the world right now.
TDeath21 wrote:
No way would I rank Tomac above Cairoli when it comes to GP MX. So that puts him 3rd at best and that pack behind Cairoli...
No way would I rank Tomac above Cairoli when it comes to GP MX. So that puts him 3rd at best and that pack behind Cairoli is extremely bunched up and not far off of him. So my assessment really isn’t far off, if at all.
Not doubting ac222, he is a legend and one of my top4 in the world. Herlings,eli , marvin, ac222. In no specific order. But not putting tomac in top 5 is comical. This list isnt including sx.
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St Ann More 5/21/2018 3:49pm
5/21/2018 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2018 3:51pm
Aussie_power_sports wrote:
Okay moto nerds. Who has the stats on everytime tomac and herlings have raced? This doesnt seem right but its all I could find. But seems...
Okay moto nerds. Who has the stats on everytime tomac and herlings have raced?

This doesnt seem right but its all I could find. But seems they havent raced each other at a des nations. Current score is 3-1 to herlings

2017
mxgp usa Eli 1 - Herlings 1
Ironman national Eli 0 - Herlings 2
They've only raced twice (I think?).

Ironman:
Herlings top of every session, then 1-1

USGP
Eli:
21st in Free Practice
13th in Timed Practice
12th in Qualifying Race
3rd in Warm-up
1st in Moto 1
3rd in Moto 2
2nd Overall
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ATKpilot99 5/21/2018 4:00pm
5/21/2018 4:00pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Although I do think the US field is the weakest it has been in quite sometime with regards to top tier riders, I disagree with that...
Although I do think the US field is the weakest it has been in quite sometime with regards to top tier riders, I disagree with that. Every extra challenge you throw in that GP guys go through, the US guys have one as well. Focusing on two disciplines, 9 month long season, adapting to the track all in one day, etc.
Don't let him troll you . Of course there are top tier riders in both series' . Is Jose Butron a top tier rider because he races the gps ? Of course not. He'd be an also ran here too albeit probably closer to the top 10 in this field. Also I think guys like Desalle and
Paulin would slot into 2nd 3rd 4th etc. here too. It's just who they are. But yes Herlings and Cairoli have to be considered the top 2 riders right now.
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DPR250R 5/21/2018 4:23pm
5/21/2018 4:23pm
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
When a top GP rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges supercross racing brings & wins a sx title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
early
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early 5/21/2018 4:39pm
5/21/2018 4:39pm
Prejump wrote:
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also. Point Im making is Tomac is a super...
Not hating at all. Im a fan of the sport & watch a few other national series also.

Point Im making is Tomac is a super fast national guy.

Herlings will always be superior as he's international. Everything about being a GP rider is tougher then being a national rider.

When a top US rider proves they can deal with all the extra challenges international racing brings & wins a world title then he will be considered the best. Until then second tier only.
I posted this on page 2 of this thread but it's worth repeating. The top level of the GPs is consistent with the top level of the US Nationals, JH is currently elevating that level there, but nobody is really able to match him anyway.

From page 2
JH is definitely on another level when it comes to MX, but anyone who thinks the level of the GPs in general is that much higher than the top of the US Nationals is just kidding themselves.

Musquin and Roczen were 2 of the 4 best talents of the GPs of the last 10 years. Although Kenny has been hurt he helped establish the level of the US competition from 13 to 16.

Tomac has beat all the current GP guys en route to winning 5 of 6 GP motos he's been in, 3 motos on tracks he's never seen. Sure they were in the US but isn't that what the GP guys are good at, traveling to races all around the world.

Let's also not forget that RV won GP motos and overalls when he really didn't give a shit about it.

Also the US riders consistently make a joke of the MX2 class when the tour comes here.

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