How does a rider prove He didn't know ?

CMcBain
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4/17/2018 3:05pm
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
ando
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4/17/2018 3:38pm
GuyB wrote:
Hiring a dead attorney probably isn't going to get you very far.
Well, get Johnnie Cochran instead.
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/17/256012/s1200_jc.jpg[/img]


I'd say the Chewbacca defense is probably about as good as anything else at this point.
bama205
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4/17/2018 8:12pm
Motofinne wrote:
There is no such thing as "didn't know". Every rider signs a anti-doping document before the season and the information is out there. There are three...
There is no such thing as "didn't know". Every rider signs a anti-doping document before the season and the information is out there.

There are three scenarios:
1. Very lazy/stupid rider that didn't check if it is ok to take a certain substance (the info is available, especially if you have a professional trainer).
2. A rider that tried to cheat
3. A rider took something that was very low quality and had something in it that is not on the labels etc.
aees wrote:
There are more scenarios. Miss-labled OEM stuff, misses in factory (contamination or pure mistakes during production).
Asimo wrote:
Does NOT matter. Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab. They know EXACTLY what they...
Does NOT matter.

Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab.

They know EXACTLY what they have and they arent even being tested or in a tested sport!
Then how do they actually know that they know that the know
4/17/2018 8:21pm
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?

The Shop

TXDirt
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4/17/2018 8:27pm
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people [i]without[/i] an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it...
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?
Yeah cause all doctors are completely above board and would never think of providing a prescription for something someone doesn’t need. Whistling
gnarwhip
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4/17/2018 8:32pm
I'll quote the great movie 'Training Day'. "It's not what you know (or didn't know), it's what you can prove". Can he prove he didn't have the banned substance in his system? No. They proved he did.
jeffro503
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4/17/2018 8:41pm
Perry " fucking " Mason......would get the job done!
Piston Slap
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4/17/2018 8:42pm
HuskyEd wrote:
He‘s dead too. I think we‘re down to Barry Sheck.
F. Lee Bailey....
Sully
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4/17/2018 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2018 8:51pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Produce the wrapper of what he ate.....simple really!
Do you own a calendar? He was tested in early February at San Diego.

4/17/2018 9:00pm
Wasn't Stewart's a paperwork thing. He turned in the paperwork in Pryor seasons that he was taking the Adderall. He failed to turn in the paperwork stating that it was Dr treatment. If they test positive first time have tester call at any time and go piss. For extended periods of time.
4/17/2018 9:00pm
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people [i]without[/i] an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it...
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?
TXDirt wrote:
Yeah cause all doctors are completely above board and would never think of providing a prescription for something someone doesn’t need. Whistling
I understand that some doctors may give out meds quicker than others, but if we can’t go by a doctor’s prescription for legitimacy, then what do we go by instead?
4/17/2018 9:10pm
500guy wrote:
So how does a guy prove He didn't knowingly ingest some illegal / banned substance ?

Lie detector test , affidavit etc ?
He doesn't because it doesn't matter. This has been tested many times in MMA with no success. There have been some sentence reductions down to a year but that's about it to my knowledge.
Piston Slap
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4/17/2018 10:26pm
That was the joke, lol
Tongue . All good, I thought it was funny, so mission accomplished!!!
Robgvx
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4/18/2018 12:48am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2018 2:54am
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people [i]without[/i] an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it...
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?
I’ve been present at an ADHD diagnosis test. It comprised a bunch of questions to which the ‘correct’ answers were obvious. I don’t have the condition but I could have taken that test myself, answered ‘yes’ to all the questions and walked out with a prescription right there and then.

This wasn’t a crooked doctor either.
Robgvx
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4/18/2018 2:53am
In UK.
4/18/2018 4:33am
You're all forgetting one very powerful defence strategy.



4/18/2018 5:12am
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people [i]without[/i] an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it...
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?
Robgvx wrote:
I’ve been present at an ADHD diagnosis test. It comprised a bunch of questions to which the ‘correct’ answers were obvious. I don’t have the condition...
I’ve been present at an ADHD diagnosis test. It comprised a bunch of questions to which the ‘correct’ answers were obvious. I don’t have the condition but I could have taken that test myself, answered ‘yes’ to all the questions and walked out with a prescription right there and then.

This wasn’t a crooked doctor either.
Shouldn’t the burden be on the doctors to fix the process of testing for adderall then, rather than having the athlete try to find a way to prove he had a legitimate doctor that was truthful? This way of thinking sleights the ones who actually have serious forms of ADD.
Sully
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4/18/2018 5:27am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2018 5:28am
You're all forgetting one very powerful defence strategy. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/18/256154/s1200_images_8.jpg[/img]
You're all forgetting one very powerful defence strategy.



Ahahahahahahaha!
Broc, your troubles are over!
BobKerr
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4/18/2018 5:41am
He can't.
ToolMaker
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4/18/2018 5:52am
CMcBain wrote:
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by...
Its pretty hilarious all the people saying that the three guys busted is no big deal. I'm a stew fan but Adderall is taken widely by college students and by people on Wall Street as well as many athletes to improve focus and mental performance which would undoubtably be an advantage in Moto. There is currently a movie on Netflix called "Take your Pills" on the very subject. The DMAA is maybe not as enhancing, I don't really know a lot about it. Either way, They are banned substances and its the athletes responsibility to be clean. As far as the penalties I believe its better to have extreme consequences. They can't possibly test everyone all the time so with extreme consequences you can dissuade people from doping. I can guarantee that everyone In SX is double-checking their shit right now. Apparently everyone else who's been tested realized the risks and have ensured they are clean.
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people [i]without[/i] an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it...
“Take Your Pills” focuses on people without an attention deficit disorder abusing drugs like adderall, instead of people that do have ADD that actually need it. It’s been widely discredited by critics as a result. Just because it’s on Netflix with a high production value doesn’t mean it’s a factual documentary, they picked instances that fit their narrative.

James had a prescription for it from his doc, right?
Doesn't that describe every documentary out there? From the point of view of the producer?
And leads you to believe the narrative that the producer wants you to believe?
I personally believe that a substance that gives you the ability to focus or focus more clearly
makes you ride better. To be more blunt, if it makes you better/faster that's an advantage.
If it doesn't make you better/faster why would you take it?
What about the guy that has a disadvantage of smaller muscles, he gets an RX for HGH shots.
He now has a better suited body that he can now ride faster. Is that an advantage? So the people
that say it's OK to stimulate the brain to be better but not stimulate the muscles to be better? I say
Hmmm. And doctors are not the holy grail just because they are doctors. They might in fact be part
of the problem because they have enough knowledge to enhance/fix a problem with chemicals.
It's not an easy answer but by the time they (the riders) get to that level you'd think they would do some research
about the rules of their career choice. You'd think that there is an actual list of banned substances.
Just think out loud here,
Betuel
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4/18/2018 5:55am
Amphetaime based drugs will enhance, mood, focus, performance in pretty much every way. And they sure are awesome to be on even if you dont have any “condition”. Adderall is an amphetaime based drug. I do not believe ADD is a thing but an excuse or easy way out of putting in the work/effort required for what ever the reason one is using it.
ToolMaker
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4/18/2018 5:56am
They're a bit over the top down under though, you also need a script for neosporin.
A common salve you use on a minor cut.
cheers
Mit12
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4/18/2018 9:46am
Officer, I did not know I was speeding.
CMcBain
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4/18/2018 10:02am
"Take Your Pills" is maybe not completely objective but when you have people trying to improve their cognitive abilities by taking something its a warning flag. I know people from college who took Aderall to study for exams. In the documentary there are people who are trying to get scripts because they know it's an advantage. I am not saying this is the case with Stew or Cade.

issuing TUEs for ANYONE whether or not they have actual ADD is a pretty slippery slope. Drugs can effect everyone differently and in the same way ADD has different levels of severity. How do we know that even someone with say mild ADD with the use of Adderall won't bring their cognitive ability above the baseline of a "clean" person. Its impossible to know. I'm thinking out loud and may be a bit harsh but maybe in the same way that I don't have the talent to ride pro mx maybe if you have severe ADD which needs a drugs maybe you don't have the tools to be a Pro Athlete either. We all have limits keeping us from our goals whether its lack of talent, attitude, body type or cognitive abilities. The whole reason people watch sports is to see people who are suited to these disciplines do amazing things they can't do themselves.

On a somewhat related note I found it interesting that everyone including Matthes thinks Anderson should be able to get medicine for altitude. If his body won't let him compete at altitude thats too bad! He loses points because he isn't able to cope! He's from New Mexico which I assume is hot. So if lets say Rollerball comes down from Canada and is severely affected by heat at Gatorback does he get to take something performance enhancing to improve his ability to cope? Where does it end? As far as Anderson goes and his altitude sickness have they thought about maybe training somewhere that is at altitude??? Isn't that part of the reason that guys train in Florida is so they can stand the heat in the same way?
BobKerr
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4/18/2018 10:06am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2018 10:07am
Betuel wrote:
Amphetaime based drugs will enhance, mood, focus, performance in pretty much every way. And they sure are awesome to be on even if you dont have...
Amphetaime based drugs will enhance, mood, focus, performance in pretty much every way. And they sure are awesome to be on even if you dont have any “condition”. Adderall is an amphetaime based drug. I do not believe ADD is a thing but an excuse or easy way out of putting in the work/effort required for what ever the reason one is using it.
If you don't believe ADD/ADHD is real, then you need to meet my nephew.
Phillip_Lamb
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4/18/2018 10:25am
Motofinne wrote:
There is no such thing as "didn't know". Every rider signs a anti-doping document before the season and the information is out there. There are three...
There is no such thing as "didn't know". Every rider signs a anti-doping document before the season and the information is out there.

There are three scenarios:
1. Very lazy/stupid rider that didn't check if it is ok to take a certain substance (the info is available, especially if you have a professional trainer).
2. A rider that tried to cheat
3. A rider took something that was very low quality and had something in it that is not on the labels etc.
aees wrote:
There are more scenarios. Miss-labled OEM stuff, misses in factory (contamination or pure mistakes during production).
Asimo wrote:
Does NOT matter. Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab. They know EXACTLY what they...
Does NOT matter.

Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab.

They know EXACTLY what they have and they arent even being tested or in a tested sport!
lets be realistic. yes these are 'top athletes' but atheletes arent know for their thorough investigative/ academic abilities. and as a whole, motocross guys are a little on the dumb side ( gotta be to be involved in such a dangerous sport haha)

yes their rules state that a rider "should" thoroughly read and understand what is in the product, but reading that much detail it can be easy to miss a detail or even miss something that is on the laundry list of banned substances.

Secondly, the substance he was popped for has been out of use for a long time, and at best would be difficult to find and not worth the danger of popping hot when there are newer substances that are legal that can be used.
mxb2
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4/18/2018 10:30am
aees wrote:
There are more scenarios. Miss-labled OEM stuff, misses in factory (contamination or pure mistakes during production).
Asimo wrote:
Does NOT matter. Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab. They know EXACTLY what they...
Does NOT matter.

Hes a world class athlete. Regular Meathead bros get their products tested on the regular at a lab.

They know EXACTLY what they have and they arent even being tested or in a tested sport!
lets be realistic. yes these are 'top athletes' but atheletes arent know for their thorough investigative/ academic abilities. and as a whole, motocross guys are a...
lets be realistic. yes these are 'top athletes' but atheletes arent know for their thorough investigative/ academic abilities. and as a whole, motocross guys are a little on the dumb side ( gotta be to be involved in such a dangerous sport haha)

yes their rules state that a rider "should" thoroughly read and understand what is in the product, but reading that much detail it can be easy to miss a detail or even miss something that is on the laundry list of banned substances.

Secondly, the substance he was popped for has been out of use for a long time, and at best would be difficult to find and not worth the danger of popping hot when there are newer substances that are legal that can be used.
Do you think they missed the fine print on the $$ details on the contract? I doubt it.
Asimo
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4/18/2018 11:13am
lets be realistic. yes these are 'top athletes' but atheletes arent know for their thorough investigative/ academic abilities. and as a whole, motocross guys are a...
lets be realistic. yes these are 'top athletes' but atheletes arent know for their thorough investigative/ academic abilities. and as a whole, motocross guys are a little on the dumb side ( gotta be to be involved in such a dangerous sport haha)

yes their rules state that a rider "should" thoroughly read and understand what is in the product, but reading that much detail it can be easy to miss a detail or even miss something that is on the laundry list of banned substances.

Secondly, the substance he was popped for has been out of use for a long time, and at best would be difficult to find and not worth the danger of popping hot when there are newer substances that are legal that can be used.
Secondly, the substance he was popped for has been out of use for a long time, and at best would be difficult to find and not worth the danger of popping hot when there are newer substances that are legal that can be used.

No it hasn't. It is buyable today. It can be bought right now as 1,3 or 1,4 versions of "DMAA" or even the newer 1,5 and 1,6 versions of DMHA. Which are just Heptane and Hexane versions with different amounts of carbon molecules.



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