Time for a riders union?

logan_140
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logan_140
Edited Date/Time 9/30/2018 6:54pm
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 4/13/2018 7:07pm
4/13/2018 7:07pm
OOORRRR....did the riders ruin their careers by choosing to dope. Plenty of guys are tested as much or more and are not testing positive.

Good luck with the riders union. Listen to old interviews with guys like Reed and Windham, they are savvy enough to know the industry is far too self-involved to ever work together. If they can't even band together to get Feld to address safety issues good luck banding together to get rid of drug testing.

If we want to consider motocross and SX athletic endeavours, and I most people love to tout how these guys are some of the greatest athletes in the world, then we need to accept that there must be drug testing. End of story.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 4/13/2018 7:07pm
4/13/2018 7:07pm
Will the other riders police what the other riders put in their bodies?
MR. X
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MR. X 4/13/2018 7:16pm
4/13/2018 7:16pm
The guys using the drugs ruined their own career
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logan_140
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logan_140 4/13/2018 7:19pm
4/13/2018 7:19pm
MR. X wrote:
The guys using the drugs ruined their own career
But are they drugs that will help them win a moto or a main? Brock tickle is a 8th-5th place guy on an average night..

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GuyB
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GuyB 4/13/2018 7:24pm
4/13/2018 7:24pm
How would a rider's union make a bit of difference here?
lostboy819 4/13/2018 7:26pm
4/13/2018 7:26pm
logan_140 wrote:
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
It is not the FIM or WADAs fault.
KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 4/13/2018 8:15pm
4/13/2018 8:15pm
GuyB wrote:
How would a rider's union make a bit of difference here?
In stick and ball sports the unions have negotiated the PED penalties. So in the NFL it’s 4 games not 4 years. Even though they use the same type of testing and banned substances.

I don’t see a riders union happening in an individual sport. There’s too much discrepancy between the Tomacs/Roczen/Andersen’s and the Ray/Pipes/Enticknaps for anything to happen as far as collective bargaining.
JMR1976
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JMR1976 4/13/2018 8:30pm
4/13/2018 8:30pm
I like how Wada is responsible for destroying riders careers. Total Witch Hunt I guess?
GuyB
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GuyB 4/13/2018 8:30pm
4/13/2018 8:30pm
KirkChandler wrote:
In stick and ball sports the unions have negotiated the PED penalties. So in the NFL it’s 4 games not 4 years. Even though they use...
In stick and ball sports the unions have negotiated the PED penalties. So in the NFL it’s 4 games not 4 years. Even though they use the same type of testing and banned substances.

I don’t see a riders union happening in an individual sport. There’s too much discrepancy between the Tomacs/Roczen/Andersen’s and the Ray/Pipes/Enticknaps for anything to happen as far as collective bargaining.
I agree with you on that...too many varied interests, and no one stepping up to pay for it.
KennyT
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KennyT 4/13/2018 9:08pm
4/13/2018 9:08pm
Plenty of riders still have their careers going strong. Don’t put stuff in your body that is on the banned list. Pretty simple
hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 4/13/2018 9:54pm
4/13/2018 9:54pm
KirkChandler wrote:
In stick and ball sports the unions have negotiated the PED penalties. So in the NFL it’s 4 games not 4 years. Even though they use...
In stick and ball sports the unions have negotiated the PED penalties. So in the NFL it’s 4 games not 4 years. Even though they use the same type of testing and banned substances.

I don’t see a riders union happening in an individual sport. There’s too much discrepancy between the Tomacs/Roczen/Andersen’s and the Ray/Pipes/Enticknaps for anything to happen as far as collective bargaining.
Problem here is that stick and ball sports have made their penalties quite lenient and therefore there is still a lot of doping going on. Somewhere between the IOC-type of penalty of 4 years and the slap on the wrist NFL penalty is the correct amount.

These stories always hit me close to home because of the time I raced through in bicycle racing. Back in the day each country's federation determined the penalties which meant a Canadian or American rider got 2 years while the Italian got 6 months backdated so it fell mostly in the off-season. I welcomed the changes to the WADA code to unify the penalties across the nations, but in many ways they are very harsh. But sports like cycling, nordic skiing, and track and field have given the Olympics a lot of black eyes. Personally I think the penalties should be graded in terms of the performance enhancer. Some kind of stimulant like the Tickle case should be 6-12 months, call it level 1 offence. Heavier things like cortisone and HGH should be 2 years, say a level 2. And then getting into blood manipulation with EPO or injecting stored blood should be 4 years, call them level 3. offences. And for repeat offenders of either level 2 or level 3 the athletes should be banned for life.
Jaze
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Jaze 4/13/2018 10:05pm
4/13/2018 10:05pm
logan_140 wrote:
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
Most stupid post this year so far?
Union against drugs, oh wait no we support drugs, its good for sport :D
MelonFan123
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MelonFan123 4/13/2018 10:18pm
4/13/2018 10:18pm
I don't agree with the mandatory 4 year ban based on Olympic sports. We're not an Olympic sport so that mandatory punishment is way too harsh IMO. A 1 year ban for first time offendors in our sport seems appropriate.
Mit12
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Mit12 4/13/2018 10:43pm
4/13/2018 10:43pm
logan_140 wrote:
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
You probably blame cops for criminals getting goimg to jail?.

FIM, AMA and WADA are not to blame. The riders that used banned substances are at fault. A riders union would not help them.
TbonesPop 4/13/2018 10:45pm
4/13/2018 10:45pm
logan_140 wrote:
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
Jaze wrote:
Most stupid post this year so far?
Union against drugs, oh wait no we support drugs, its good for sport :D
Most Stupid? It's up there (probably top 5), but there's a lot of stupid crap spewed on here daily. This is legit top 5 2018 material though.
Andy_Greenney 4/14/2018 1:06am
4/14/2018 1:06am
Soooo, lets start a riders union so we can get away with cheating?.... I can think of better reasons to form a union
lumpy790
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lumpy790 4/14/2018 7:03am
4/14/2018 7:03am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 7:04am
I think it would bennifit riders voice to be heard about the tracks. Righ after RV broke his leg on a jump the riders had been complaining about there was some top riders talking about making the union and word is after a few phone calls from above that was squashed.
151
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151 4/14/2018 8:38am
4/14/2018 8:38am
It isn't exactly a union, but the history of "Pro Bull Riders" (PBR) is pretty interesting and has significant parallels to MX and SX.

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Bry145
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Bry145 4/14/2018 10:07am
4/14/2018 10:07am
A union would benefit the athletes and potentially harm the sanctioning bodies and promoters. That's why it will never happen. It doesn't fit the plan.

The athletes are in a sense just dancing bears designed to bring in spectators and sell goods. The athletes should have more of a say and receive a bigger piece of the pie. But the pie is only so big and the promoters want a nice big slice to increase wealth. That's the way big business operates.

Also, I believe the promoters in MX/SX are privately owned and profits are not disclosed. Hmmm.....






MaxPower
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MaxPower 4/14/2018 11:12am
4/14/2018 11:12am
Andy_Greenney wrote:
Soooo, lets start a riders union so we can get away with cheating?.... I can think of better reasons to form a union
Have a Union so the riders have representation and are treated fairly on all levels. Cheaters are penalized.
BikerScars
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BikerScars 4/14/2018 2:45pm
4/14/2018 2:45pm
If you think what Broc took was a "drug" you are clueless.
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C_Class_Hero 4/14/2018 5:03pm
4/14/2018 5:03pm
hamncheeze wrote:
OOORRRR....did the riders ruin their careers by choosing to dope. Plenty of guys are tested as much or more and are not testing positive. Good luck...
OOORRRR....did the riders ruin their careers by choosing to dope. Plenty of guys are tested as much or more and are not testing positive.

Good luck with the riders union. Listen to old interviews with guys like Reed and Windham, they are savvy enough to know the industry is far too self-involved to ever work together. If they can't even band together to get Feld to address safety issues good luck banding together to get rid of drug testing.

If we want to consider motocross and SX athletic endeavours, and I most people love to tout how these guys are some of the greatest athletes in the world, then we need to accept that there must be drug testing. End of story.
Can we all agree to lay off on the repeated use of the word "doping" to describe Tickle's situation. Not singling you out hazncheeze, but it's just one example of the multiple times I've seen it thrown around since yesterday afternoon. I'm not taking any side on the suspension itself, but what Broc is alleged to have done does not begin to encroach on the realm of actual doping.
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mxb2 4/14/2018 5:08pm
4/14/2018 5:08pm
BikerScars wrote:
If you think what Broc took was a "drug" you are clueless.
And you are clueless if you think he didnt know what he was taking.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/14/2018 5:11pm
4/14/2018 5:11pm
logan_140 wrote:
Ricky and reed had talked about a riders union awhile back... is it time for one? Possibly career #3 ruined due to the fim and wada..
I am not quite sure how a union helps the situation when a rider is caught with a positive banned substance test, it sure as hell isnt FIM's fault he did, and not as though he has been unfairly dealt with?
St Ann More 4/14/2018 5:24pm
4/14/2018 5:24pm
MR. X wrote:
The guys using the drugs ruined their own career
logan_140 wrote:
But are they drugs that will help them win a moto or a main? Brock tickle is a 8th-5th place guy on an average night..
It doesn't matter! It's performance enhancing! It's likely taking away points and cash from riders racing clean!
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kkawboy14 4/14/2018 6:36pm
4/14/2018 6:36pm
The riders pay for the testing, they just don’t realize it!
Sonny
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Sonny 4/14/2018 6:42pm
4/14/2018 6:42pm
GuyB wrote:
How would a rider's union make a bit of difference here?
There's not a part of SX/MX that riders couldn't benefit from. Regulations, representtation, group healthcare....its all possible. Having a union gives a voice.
If you are not at the table, you're probably on the menu
feelit2morrow 4/14/2018 7:02pm
4/14/2018 7:02pm
MR. X wrote:
The guys using the drugs ruined their own career
logan_140 wrote:
But are they drugs that will help them win a moto or a main? Brock tickle is a 8th-5th place guy on an average night..
Maybe without drugs he would only be a 10-12 place guy.
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bsharkey 4/14/2018 7:11pm
4/14/2018 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 7:12pm
In the big scheme of things look what these guys get paid compared to basketball baseball and football it's an absolute joke. You might as well be drug testing your local high school baseball team cuz that's about the equivalent of what they're doing. A few guys are making money and the rest are barely keeping their head above the water it just seems totally Overkill to me
hillbilly
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hillbilly 4/14/2018 7:26pm
4/14/2018 7:26pm
I'd rather see a "confederacy" formed
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