who do you think is the most complete MX rider in the world right now?

Jrewing
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Jrewing 2/6/2018 1:18pm
2/6/2018 1:18pm
Mx 222
SX ?? Atm
Brownstone322 2/6/2018 1:21pm
2/6/2018 1:21pm
I agree with all that, but you never know who's showing what -- or who's testing what -- on those preseason races. Anyway, Anstie looked good, and he was great at the MXoN.
philG
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philG 2/6/2018 1:44pm
2/6/2018 1:44pm
BobbyM wrote:
Dick Mann is still alive. Nobody mentioned can top him
Truth right there.

Where do you think the likes of Dick Mann and his era would have been with the media of today... i know they made good money back then, but outside of the sport , how well known were they?
mark_swart
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mark_swart 2/6/2018 1:45pm
2/6/2018 1:45pm
Supercross is a sub-discipline of motocross, and a hugely important one. So I think it's a silly question to try and isolate this question to OUTDOOR motocross only. Can we not handle the truth?
Which IMO puts Roczen, followed by Musquin, as the best out there overall. Why not Tomac? He never won a GP on foreign soil. Why not 222 or Herlings? Never raced a SX (although I'm relatively sure that Herlings would be on the podium in 4-6 races max.)

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Lucifa.
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Lucifa. 2/6/2018 1:57pm
2/6/2018 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 1:58pm
What are you talking about "Can we not handle the truth?" The OP states in his title MX which is what were discussing.

If you wish to create a new thread about SX, feel free Sir.

EDIT: Replying to the guy above.
starchild
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starchild 2/6/2018 2:14pm
2/6/2018 2:14pm
Herlings

may104
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may104 2/6/2018 2:19pm
2/6/2018 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 2:30pm
mark_swart wrote:
Supercross is a sub-discipline of motocross, and a hugely important one. So I think it's a silly question to try and isolate this question to OUTDOOR...
Supercross is a sub-discipline of motocross, and a hugely important one. So I think it's a silly question to try and isolate this question to OUTDOOR motocross only. Can we not handle the truth?
Which IMO puts Roczen, followed by Musquin, as the best out there overall. Why not Tomac? He never won a GP on foreign soil. Why not 222 or Herlings? Never raced a SX (although I'm relatively sure that Herlings would be on the podium in 4-6 races max.)
It was hard to figure out the best way to ask this question, with most of the European riders never racing Supercross it was much easier it exclude how they preform in SX but rather what they can do outdoors. There are some guys that are blistering fast with great results ,which makes it tough to identify who is the fastest, but there are only a few that are extremely intelligent racers, along with being fast, consistent, and who can preform on any track anywhere in the world. AC can ride anything very well ( I am sure he would have been amazing at Supercross if that was a path he decided to take). Carmichael was definitely a rider who could ride anything but he has been 10 years removed from the sport. If you did put Dungey into the equation he is right up there. Without him racing SX this year and what has gone on it really shows how crazy his say podium streak was. Very intelligent and methodical racer, but Cairoli still would take him down at the end of the day. I don't watch as many interviews with AC as RD, but Cairoli rarely complains about anything. He is tough as nails and I would say he loves racing more than any other racer. Those points right there add to his value of a complete MX racer
agn5009
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agn5009 2/6/2018 2:25pm
2/6/2018 2:25pm
Well I misread as well. Just motocross I'm gonna say Herlings. Herlings could go anywhere and win. AC is another good answer but I think starting this year it's going to be all about Herlings if he can stay healthy.
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drt410 2/6/2018 2:28pm
2/6/2018 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 2:29pm
Cairoli undeniable fact. Period. For MX. He asked MX, Cairoli. />

Now if Roczen can get back to where he was last year even hovering -near pre injury form, he was the fastest man on the planet at that point in time and he may be again, we dont know yet, but this is hypothetical. He laid the Herlings smack down in MX for an entire season beating dungey by like 1:00 in I thought what 2 races early? He did that Herlings race for a whole season then came into SX said he was gonna win, won, won again, then crashed out. The milisecond before he hits that landing face first he is the FMOTP, one milisecond later hes not. He may be again though. Roczen last year blows Andersons doors off, he may again soon or one day we dont know.
may104
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may104 2/6/2018 2:29pm
2/6/2018 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 2:32pm
doesn't it annoy you all when guys complain so much in America? "Man, that track was brutal tonight". Or," its the bike , settings were off, just couldn't get in the groove". Cairoli after a race he did good at but you knew the course was tough or just wasn't good at all: " yah, ya know, it was tough ya, but, I had real good time, I gave it my all, glad we made it through, looking forward to next one ". - In Italian English. I understand you don't want to be fake and just say nice shit all the time, but I genuinely think it doesn't phase him at all and still enjoys the race even if it doesn't go his way that day or the track wasn't up to standards, etc.
decano51
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decano51 2/6/2018 2:39pm
2/6/2018 2:39pm
To me.. the most complete racer at the moment, give or take would be Josh Grant. showing he can run up front. get results, experiance and really ticks all the box's on a type of racer you would want on your team. may not be the complete fastest racer on the track. but has it all.

On a side note.. Dungey was a great racer. no doubt... but he had stayed on the same bike for a long time.. just like AC222, RV2 and so on..and that the difference between the champions we have seen and people like JS7,RC4 and CR22 is being able to swap brands of bikes, have complete change and still win.
agn5009
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agn5009 2/6/2018 2:43pm
2/6/2018 2:43pm
drt410 wrote:
Cairoli undeniable fact. Period. For MX. He asked MX, Cairoli. /> Now if Roczen can get back to where he was last year even hovering -near...
Cairoli undeniable fact. Period. For MX. He asked MX, Cairoli. />

Now if Roczen can get back to where he was last year even hovering -near pre injury form, he was the fastest man on the planet at that point in time and he may be again, we dont know yet, but this is hypothetical. He laid the Herlings smack down in MX for an entire season beating dungey by like 1:00 in I thought what 2 races early? He did that Herlings race for a whole season then came into SX said he was gonna win, won, won again, then crashed out. The milisecond before he hits that landing face first he is the FMOTP, one milisecond later hes not. He may be again though. Roczen last year blows Andersons doors off, he may again soon or one day we dont know.
Roczen dominated A1 last year. That's it. He won San Diego by like 2 seconds over Dungey. He yard sailed round 3 while behind Dungey. I don't understand why people say he "dominated" sx. He "dominated" one round.
KennyT
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KennyT 2/6/2018 2:45pm
2/6/2018 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 2:46pm
At this moment I would have to go with AC or Herlings with Musquin really close. In a couple of months I’m thinking Roczen hands down. He’s improving weekly and when he is back up to full strength he is the man

Tomac cannot make my top 5....not enough going on upstairs. The top American on my list would be Anderson
Frank
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Frank 2/6/2018 3:33pm
2/6/2018 3:33pm
Antonio Cairoli. Humble, respectful, consistent and the fastest man in the world on all types of motocross tracks not just sand.
NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 2/6/2018 3:41pm
2/6/2018 3:41pm
RACERX69 wrote:
^^NorCal50+^^ for the win. Even though RD 5 is officially retired, he's still relevant. Nobody comes close. While JH and AC are outdoor moto gods, they're...
^^NorCal50+^^ for the win. Even though RD 5 is officially retired, he's still relevant.
Nobody comes close. While JH and AC are outdoor moto gods, they're not even a pimple on Ryan's azz when it comes to SX.
Until JH or AC can ride SX at Ryan's level, they're not as "complete".
Squirrelings wrote:
If Dungey is relevant then so is RC. End of discussion then. Wink
It's not all-time. In this case Dungey could step on the track right now (with preparation) and win championships if he had to, he just retired. RC I am not so sure. It's highly unlikely RC could win a pro race but who knows?
mark_swart
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mark_swart 2/6/2018 7:15pm
2/6/2018 7:15pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 7:18pm
may104 wrote:
It was hard to figure out the best way to ask this question, with most of the European riders never racing Supercross it was much easier...
It was hard to figure out the best way to ask this question, with most of the European riders never racing Supercross it was much easier it exclude how they preform in SX but rather what they can do outdoors. There are some guys that are blistering fast with great results ,which makes it tough to identify who is the fastest, but there are only a few that are extremely intelligent racers, along with being fast, consistent, and who can preform on any track anywhere in the world. AC can ride anything very well ( I am sure he would have been amazing at Supercross if that was a path he decided to take). Carmichael was definitely a rider who could ride anything but he has been 10 years removed from the sport. If you did put Dungey into the equation he is right up there. Without him racing SX this year and what has gone on it really shows how crazy his say podium streak was. Very intelligent and methodical racer, but Cairoli still would take him down at the end of the day. I don't watch as many interviews with AC as RD, but Cairoli rarely complains about anything. He is tough as nails and I would say he loves racing more than any other racer. Those points right there add to his value of a complete MX racer
Don't get me wrong, AC is incredible. And what impresses me the most about him now is that he came back after a few off years at a relatively old age and still managed to dominate. Nobody has really done that on this side of the pond. Reed and Stewart had some good rides in their 30s, but nothing like what AC did last year.

But at the same time... what has AC done on the US circuit? It's hard to say that someone is the best at a season, when they haven't even done complete seasons in both major series? I realize that Roczen and Musquin have only done MX2, so they have some gaps in their portfolios as well. Herlings came here and won, but would he sustain that all season? Tomac won the USGP in 16, but I wouldn't expect him to go to Europe and run away like that. I think I'd still have to give the nod to Kenny for most versatile overall.

It's an interesting question, especially when you limit it to active riders. I wish that one season we could have a MXdN where all of the top 450 guys are healthy and get to race so that we can answer this question, at least for a year!
agn5009
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agn5009 2/6/2018 8:08pm
2/6/2018 8:08pm
may104 wrote:
It was hard to figure out the best way to ask this question, with most of the European riders never racing Supercross it was much easier...
It was hard to figure out the best way to ask this question, with most of the European riders never racing Supercross it was much easier it exclude how they preform in SX but rather what they can do outdoors. There are some guys that are blistering fast with great results ,which makes it tough to identify who is the fastest, but there are only a few that are extremely intelligent racers, along with being fast, consistent, and who can preform on any track anywhere in the world. AC can ride anything very well ( I am sure he would have been amazing at Supercross if that was a path he decided to take). Carmichael was definitely a rider who could ride anything but he has been 10 years removed from the sport. If you did put Dungey into the equation he is right up there. Without him racing SX this year and what has gone on it really shows how crazy his say podium streak was. Very intelligent and methodical racer, but Cairoli still would take him down at the end of the day. I don't watch as many interviews with AC as RD, but Cairoli rarely complains about anything. He is tough as nails and I would say he loves racing more than any other racer. Those points right there add to his value of a complete MX racer
mark_swart wrote:
Don't get me wrong, AC is incredible. And what impresses me the most about him now is that he came back after a few off years...
Don't get me wrong, AC is incredible. And what impresses me the most about him now is that he came back after a few off years at a relatively old age and still managed to dominate. Nobody has really done that on this side of the pond. Reed and Stewart had some good rides in their 30s, but nothing like what AC did last year.

But at the same time... what has AC done on the US circuit? It's hard to say that someone is the best at a season, when they haven't even done complete seasons in both major series? I realize that Roczen and Musquin have only done MX2, so they have some gaps in their portfolios as well. Herlings came here and won, but would he sustain that all season? Tomac won the USGP in 16, but I wouldn't expect him to go to Europe and run away like that. I think I'd still have to give the nod to Kenny for most versatile overall.

It's an interesting question, especially when you limit it to active riders. I wish that one season we could have a MXdN where all of the top 450 guys are healthy and get to race so that we can answer this question, at least for a year!
That would be unreal. 6 AMA tracks and 6 MXGP tracks. Battle it out for the title of best in the world.

My money would be on Herlings.
bents
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bents 2/6/2018 8:33pm
2/6/2018 8:33pm
Frank wrote:
Antonio Cairoli. Humble, respectful, consistent and the fastest man in the world on all types of motocross tracks not just sand.
This

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Katoomey
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Katoomey 2/6/2018 10:28pm
2/6/2018 10:28pm
have to agree with everyone else. AC222. I just watched the Italian MX round 1. He's an alien.
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hamncheeze 2/6/2018 10:33pm
2/6/2018 10:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2018 10:36pm
For just motocross. On any given day it could be: Cairoli, Herlings, Gajser, Febvre, Tomac, Roczen, Musquin, Anderson or Baggett. Too bad we never get to see them all on the gate together.

But if we did see them all race a series of 6 MXGP and 6 USA Nats I think AC222 would win the title.
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Bearuno 2/6/2018 11:25pm
2/6/2018 11:25pm
BobbyM wrote:
Dick Mann is still alive. Nobody mentioned can top him
philG wrote:
Truth right there. Where do you think the likes of Dick Mann and his era would have been with the media of today... i know they...
Truth right there.

Where do you think the likes of Dick Mann and his era would have been with the media of today... i know they made good money back then, but outside of the sport , how well known were they?
Don't forget your compatriot, Jeff Smith philG. World MX Champion, ISDT / ISDE Gold Medal winner, main development rider for Can Am ( not forgetting his contributions to Greeves(?) and BSA).

Hell, then you get into the likes of Sammy Miller. I doubt many here would know of him, but his biography / record of racing success and Motorcycle Development is absolutely stunning. People here Need to read his biography / autobiographies. But, they won't.

As for the modern day Motocross Rider - Antonio Cairoli.

I think Herlings will be a hell of a threat this year, and difficult to beat if he doesn't axe himself, but I really hope for a 10th World Championship for AC - besides Real Roads Riders, AC is the closest to my being a 'fanboi' for any rider, I'd ever get.
redrider400
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redrider400 2/6/2018 11:30pm
2/6/2018 11:30pm
I would still say Jeffrey Herrings, or a couple other European riders. They are better than us right now.
aees
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aees 2/7/2018 1:52am
2/7/2018 1:52am
Put one rider up that can compete on the below with AC222:

1. Sand: Top 2 in the world with Herlings (maybe number 1 based on last years riding and times from Italy this weekend)
2. Hard packed: Top 5 in the world (Roczen, Tomac, Herlings, Gajser and maybe Tornus)
3. Soft hard packed: Top 5 (same as above)
4. Starts: 1 in the world (no one is really as consistent in holeshots and top 1-3 starts)
5. Experience: 1 in the world (Chad Reed, but he does not ride outdoors and does not have MX speed close to 222)
6. Stability: 1 in the world (same level as Dungey)

So i think it is hard to argue against 222. I dont see anyone else coming close to this level on the above points.

Park Boys
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Park Boys 2/7/2018 3:24am
2/7/2018 3:24am
Took you guys long enough to jump on the 222 train. It's over filling right now! Depends on if Roczen returns to 16 MX form or not. Without SX injuries Kennys outdoor stats would be even better. ATM 222 until proven otherwise, although ET3 might say the guy has only beaten me in a Moto which would bring Herlings into it. Then Roczen could say you two look a hell of a lot better when I'm not on the track. An endless cycle!
Crush
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Crush 2/7/2018 3:28am
2/7/2018 3:28am
MX, right now. AC.

2016 Kenny was pretty unbelievable though, I think he'd have handled anyone at the time and many in history, and he wasn't too shabby at SX either.
aees
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aees 2/7/2018 4:29am
2/7/2018 4:29am
Park Boys wrote:
Took you guys long enough to jump on the 222 train. It's over filling right now! Depends on if Roczen returns to 16 MX form or...
Took you guys long enough to jump on the 222 train. It's over filling right now! Depends on if Roczen returns to 16 MX form or not. Without SX injuries Kennys outdoor stats would be even better. ATM 222 until proven otherwise, although ET3 might say the guy has only beaten me in a Moto which would bring Herlings into it. Then Roczen could say you two look a hell of a lot better when I'm not on the track. An endless cycle!
No matter how you put it, Roczen has nothing for neither 222 or Herlings in the sand. I mean nothing as in several seconds per lap.

On every line i mentioned, Kenny is at the most on pair with 222. Stability and starts however Cairoli is better, as well as in the sand.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 2/7/2018 5:03am
2/7/2018 5:03am
Let’s revisit this after MXoN
OT
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OT 2/7/2018 5:23am
2/7/2018 5:23am
AC222 no question
UpTiTe 2/7/2018 6:33am
2/7/2018 6:33am
Antonio Cairolli
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WCRider 2/7/2018 10:13am
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Zacho.

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