PED Allegations

Premix
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12/9/2017 8:06am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 8:07am
So I think Jeff’s allegations need to be supported with some actual facts otherwise he’s just bringing a knife to a gun fight. I’m curious as to what each rider is actually tested for and the actual process/stipulations for each. I mean I would think instead of doing randomized testing, that we should be testing every rider, since it’s a “professional” sport after all. Does the 722 get tested as much as the 3 and 94? Would the 94 have to submit a TUE for any pain killers he’s on? Why was Davi Millsaps so dominant in 2013 and has been a ghost ever since and fired from Kawi?

Want to open a bigger can of worms, start testing at the major amateur nationals......

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
12/9/2017 8:09am
DC wrote:
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here... To go back and suggest...
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here...

To go back and suggest that Ricky Carmichael won because he started working with Aldon is missing a few points. RC was a dominant amateur for 10 years before and the best 125cc rider EVER before Johnny O'Mara introduced him to Aldon Baker. (And then James Stewart became an even faster 125 rider.) Then he got serious about training. Like Tom Brady, he watched everything he put in his body, every meal, every beverage... He once told me he couldn't wait to retire because "I've been on a diet for a decade!"

In 2007, when he was on a partial schedule and only riding half the races, he managed to win two SX main events against Stewart and Reed and Windham, and all six outdoor nationals he entered, and then the Motocross of Nations.

In 2011, well off his diet, he went and dominated Loretta Lynn's in the Vet class.

And even now, ten years after he retired, he can hop on a bike and flat-out fly. If he went back into training, I don't doubt he could battle for podiums and maybe even wins again.

My point is this: Carmichael wasn't just an animal with training, he was a remarkably talented athlete with an incredible ability to ride a motorcycle. Discrediting him here a dozen years after he quit is ridiculous. The man could ride a motorcycle, way back when as a kid, and right now still. If you don't believe that, go back and watch all those dominant 125cc wins from '97 to '99 when he was heavy. He could beat anyone but McGrath and he knew he had to get in better shape to beat Jeremy, which he finally did in 2000-2001. Then he worked his ass off for six more years and kept winning. His career was a masterpiece, not a science experiment.

Respect.

DC
Racer X

Well said DC.
12/9/2017 8:20am
DC wrote:
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here... To go back and suggest...
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here...

To go back and suggest that Ricky Carmichael won because he started working with Aldon is missing a few points. RC was a dominant amateur for 10 years before and the best 125cc rider EVER before Johnny O'Mara introduced him to Aldon Baker. (And then James Stewart became an even faster 125 rider.) Then he got serious about training. Like Tom Brady, he watched everything he put in his body, every meal, every beverage... He once told me he couldn't wait to retire because "I've been on a diet for a decade!"

In 2007, when he was on a partial schedule and only riding half the races, he managed to win two SX main events against Stewart and Reed and Windham, and all six outdoor nationals he entered, and then the Motocross of Nations.

In 2011, well off his diet, he went and dominated Loretta Lynn's in the Vet class.

And even now, ten years after he retired, he can hop on a bike and flat-out fly. If he went back into training, I don't doubt he could battle for podiums and maybe even wins again.

My point is this: Carmichael wasn't just an animal with training, he was a remarkably talented athlete with an incredible ability to ride a motorcycle. Discrediting him here a dozen years after he quit is ridiculous. The man could ride a motorcycle, way back when as a kid, and right now still. If you don't believe that, go back and watch all those dominant 125cc wins from '97 to '99 when he was heavy. He could beat anyone but McGrath and he knew he had to get in better shape to beat Jeremy, which he finally did in 2000-2001. Then he worked his ass off for six more years and kept winning. His career was a masterpiece, not a science experiment.

Respect.

DC
Racer X

All of above is correct, the most talented riders (RC/JS/RV) were all the most talented riders, maybe some of them took PED's to assist? who knows?

I think Jeff's point is to put an end to PED's in the sport to protect the kids from drug use as the long term effects of these drugs are unknown also some kids don't know what they have signed up for as a full time job.
Jaze
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12/9/2017 8:24am
MX-LIFE. wrote:
All this bashing on Jeff I find interesting,I'm not a fan and I don't know the guy but to all those bashing this guy take a...
All this bashing on Jeff I find interesting,I'm not a fan and I don't know the guy but to all those bashing this guy take a minute and think about this,his brother Mike, weather you like him or not has been a top 12 FACTORY rider in this sport for at least the past 10 plus years ,so I'm sure that Jeff has been previlidged to see and hear about a lot of inside industry bs and if guys are taking PEDs ! He is more previlidged then most of us on this post about what goes on behind closed doors in this sport then say then some guy in Mi that rides on the wknd ! I'm just saying ppl doing all the bashing for Jeff talking about this issue take a minute and be open minded about this and the fact that most of these racers probably use the same doctor's just like same is the same trainers! Jeff mentioned a team manager was fired? Why? Why was Davi Millsaps fired from Kawasaki what did they find in his team truck locker? Who was the team manager then??
agn5009 wrote:
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount...
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount of information he has produced has been quickly discredited.

Again, as many have said here, no one doubts PED usage in mx. It's the fact that Jeff comes on here and throws out baseless information and acts like he's going to be the savior or mx. It ain't gonna happen.
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was...
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was the Kawasaki team manager at the team??
So thats why Millsaps got fired. I didn´t know that.
Is that rumor or very true?

The Shop

aroark247
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12/9/2017 8:25am
PEDS in a PEZ dispenser
vikingBoy
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12/9/2017 8:32am
Well said DC.

I’m not taking anything away from RC, he has always been the fastest kid I’ve ever seen, PED’s or not.

BUT, I have heard the rumors of Top riders using PED’s and have to believe the hype. Never have we seen the domination in our sport, whether it’s SX/MX, since the incarnation of MC/RC.

Anybody remember RC’s first season on 250’s in SX. The guy would damn near crash his brains out every race, let alone have the speed to beat MC. Then miraculously mid season, he did a complete 180. Didn’t crash and then proceeded to beat MC on multiple occasions. Maybe his sprocket bolts weren’t tight enough??? Idk, but it was a bit fishy. And then RC went on to dominate for the rest of his career. Then started the domination sequence!!! Seems like ever since then, there has been a star that dominates to some degree in this sport. Looking back to the prior years of MC and RC, it was usually a tossup between the top 5 guys to whom was going to win. The Bailey, Johnson era. The Ward, Stanton, Bradshaw era. and so one.

If anyone has seen the “Icaras” documentary, then you know how easy it is to pass these drug tests. So even if there is wada testing at the races, that frankly doesn’t mean shit...
DC
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12/9/2017 8:40am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 8:43am
DrinkMoreWater, I see your point, and I know Jeff means well in his concern for the kids he's training, but to go after past athletes and trainers and team managers with your suspicions and accusations is tantamount to character assassination. Jeff said no one is doing anything about it and that's just flat wrong. But I am not around the kids he trains or anyone else trains on an hourly, daily basis, and I have no ability to monitor what a trainer tells a kid, right or wrong. That's up to parents and trainers.

But when they line up in Monster Energy AMA Supercross or Lucas Oil Pro Motocross, WADA and USADA are there to do the monitoring, policing and ultimately penalizing if an athlete fails. That's what happened--that's what changed--after the meeting in Washougal that Jeff was referring to, and it wasn't his dad who brought the whole thing up, it was Ziggy from Factory Connection. In fact, I think his dad actually heard it wrong and that's why four days later he said MX Sports "is drug ring" and confused a conversation to police for PEDs with, well, I'm not really sure.

And Jeff's description of the meeting is plain wrong because, again, he wasn't there.

DC
MX Sports

12/9/2017 9:17am
vikingBoy wrote:
Well said DC. I’m not taking anything away from RC, he has always been the fastest kid I’ve ever seen, PED’s or not. BUT, I have...
Well said DC.

I’m not taking anything away from RC, he has always been the fastest kid I’ve ever seen, PED’s or not.

BUT, I have heard the rumors of Top riders using PED’s and have to believe the hype. Never have we seen the domination in our sport, whether it’s SX/MX, since the incarnation of MC/RC.

Anybody remember RC’s first season on 250’s in SX. The guy would damn near crash his brains out every race, let alone have the speed to beat MC. Then miraculously mid season, he did a complete 180. Didn’t crash and then proceeded to beat MC on multiple occasions. Maybe his sprocket bolts weren’t tight enough??? Idk, but it was a bit fishy. And then RC went on to dominate for the rest of his career. Then started the domination sequence!!! Seems like ever since then, there has been a star that dominates to some degree in this sport. Looking back to the prior years of MC and RC, it was usually a tossup between the top 5 guys to whom was going to win. The Bailey, Johnson era. The Ward, Stanton, Bradshaw era. and so one.

If anyone has seen the “Icaras” documentary, then you know how easy it is to pass these drug tests. So even if there is wada testing at the races, that frankly doesn’t mean shit...
I'm not sure how old you are "VikingBoy", but I saw a "Hefty" RC crash his brains out at the bottom of a down hill at Millville MN and he picked it up and won by a mile, several years later at the same track, in the mud, I saw him lap the entire field, of the most gifted Motocross riders in the world. What I'm saying is RC is the Michael Jordan of our sport, so let's just enjoy it. Use your Tin Foil hat to make decorations for your Christmas tree!
coolhand
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12/9/2017 9:17am
DC,

Thank you for the responses, the rest of you need to " Disbelieve the Hype "....


Oscar Mike MFers
DC
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12/9/2017 9:20am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 9:33am
VikingBoy wrote: So even if there is wada testing at the races, that frankly doesn’t mean shit...

James Stewart and Cade Clason and the Moss brothers would all disagree.

It took two years on the 250 for RC to catch Jeremy, not all-the-sudden, just as it took Tom Brady two years to become the starter for the Patriots, and two years for Jordan to find his shot for the Bulls... And Jeremy was only racing SX at the time, so he wasn't training year-round the way Carmichael was.

RC laid the groundwork for how to go all-in on training. McGrath was so good that he could dominate without training. Once Ricky surpassed Jeremy in January 2001, he never won another race -- he was past having the drive to train like Ricky was, his own career already a masterpiece.

The USADA and WADA testing is working. All six OEMs told us at our meeting in mid-November that they want it to continue. They have a lot invested in these riders and they want testing to ensure no one is cheating, and if they are, they want them caught. We all do.

DC
Racer X
Kenny Lingus
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12/9/2017 9:21am
I think the most shocking thing in all of this is that parents would pay Jeff Alessi to train their kids.
12/9/2017 9:31am
I think the most shocking thing in all of this is that parents would pay Jeff Alessi to train their kids.
Why not? He's good at it.
Squitlege
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12/9/2017 9:33am
I think the most shocking thing in all of this is that parents would pay Jeff Alessi to train their kids.
Bingo!
DC
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12/9/2017 9:34am
I have heard from folks that Jeff is a good teacher as well.

DC
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agn5009
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12/9/2017 9:42am
MX-LIFE. wrote:
All this bashing on Jeff I find interesting,I'm not a fan and I don't know the guy but to all those bashing this guy take a...
All this bashing on Jeff I find interesting,I'm not a fan and I don't know the guy but to all those bashing this guy take a minute and think about this,his brother Mike, weather you like him or not has been a top 12 FACTORY rider in this sport for at least the past 10 plus years ,so I'm sure that Jeff has been previlidged to see and hear about a lot of inside industry bs and if guys are taking PEDs ! He is more previlidged then most of us on this post about what goes on behind closed doors in this sport then say then some guy in Mi that rides on the wknd ! I'm just saying ppl doing all the bashing for Jeff talking about this issue take a minute and be open minded about this and the fact that most of these racers probably use the same doctor's just like same is the same trainers! Jeff mentioned a team manager was fired? Why? Why was Davi Millsaps fired from Kawasaki what did they find in his team truck locker? Who was the team manager then??
agn5009 wrote:
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount...
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount of information he has produced has been quickly discredited.

Again, as many have said here, no one doubts PED usage in mx. It's the fact that Jeff comes on here and throws out baseless information and acts like he's going to be the savior or mx. It ain't gonna happen.
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was...
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was the Kawasaki team manager at the team??
I don't know. Jeff never said anything about Davi. He's throwing DC, Aldon and RV under the bus. Like I said, we all know PEDs are in the sport. You're not getting arguments about that yet you're still trying. David may have had PEDs in his locker. I don't know. It's totally irrelevant. Everything Jeff has said thus far has been discredited. Without any proof there's nothing to even argue about.
90smoto
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12/9/2017 9:56am
If memory serves me correct the Davi and locker discussion was talked about on Pulp on serval different occasions. One converastion I remember someone saying that whatever was found in Davis locker was not PED related, but rather a drug that he would of needed a prescription for.
kzizok
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12/9/2017 10:06am
Toradol
Kenny Lingus
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12/9/2017 10:14am
I think the most shocking thing in all of this is that parents would pay Jeff Alessi to train their kids.
UpTiTe wrote:
Why not? He's good at it.
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example. Now those kids he was teaching are caught up in all this. It seems like he was implying that one or more of his students is/was/asked to be on some sort of PED. I could be misunderstanding it all. He didn't really present a thought out reasonable argument. Just for the fact you could get caught up in one of his shitstorms (which no denying happens regularly) is enough to keep me away.
kongols
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12/9/2017 10:15am
tasco wrote:
I've always found it odd that Malcolm Stewart quit racing outdoors around the same time as the Stewart's iv nurse rumors started.
Actually he got a heat stroke and was in a very bad shape for month and month after. Remember Josh Lichtle? He had a very similar deal.
MxKing809
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Fantasy
12/9/2017 10:22am
agn5009 wrote:
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount...
Everyone is bashing Jeff because he's supposedly got all this information proving there is this big drug ring in mx sports. ALL of the limited amount of information he has produced has been quickly discredited.

Again, as many have said here, no one doubts PED usage in mx. It's the fact that Jeff comes on here and throws out baseless information and acts like he's going to be the savior or mx. It ain't gonna happen.
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was...
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was the Kawasaki team manager at the team??
Jaze wrote:
So thats why Millsaps got fired. I didn´t know that.
Is that rumor or very true?
For the Millspas stuff..... this is what I have:

He had prescription grade anti-inflammatory medication in a syringe and vile in the truck, with no prescription. It was on Kawasaki company property, which is a breach of contract/boarder line illegal.

If he was a champ and winning races / wasn’t a pain in the ass to deal with (i.e. lying about weight during suspension)... they probably would have looked past it or given him a warning.
davistld01
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12/9/2017 10:22am
90smoto wrote:
If memory serves me correct the Davi and locker discussion was talked about on Pulp on serval different occasions. One converastion I remember someone saying that...
If memory serves me correct the Davi and locker discussion was talked about on Pulp on serval different occasions. One converastion I remember someone saying that whatever was found in Davis locker was not PED related, but rather a drug that he would of needed a prescription for.
I remember that too...and it was super, duper, hushed up. Some say it was an anti-inflammatory drug, I even heard it might have been some kind of opiate painkiller or something. I don't know...but it never made it out into the "public knowledge" area either.

This is a tiny sport, and it's also very "closed". If you think any team managers or members of a riders entourage is going to drop their riders in the grease, you're crazy. And, it's very doubtful that any managers would do it to a rider from a competitors team out of the fear of being under the microscope themselves if the tables got turned. The chance of any real solid evidence of pro riders doping coming out is poor at the very least.
kkawboy14
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12/9/2017 10:34am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 10:47am
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was...
Why did Davi Millsaps get fired from Kawasaki and what was the drugs that they found in his team truck locker? Was it PEDs? Who was the Kawasaki team manager at the team??
Jaze wrote:
So thats why Millsaps got fired. I didn´t know that.
Is that rumor or very true?
MxKing809 wrote:
For the Millspas stuff..... this is what I have: He had prescription grade anti-inflammatory medication in a syringe and vile in the truck, with no prescription...
For the Millspas stuff..... this is what I have:

He had prescription grade anti-inflammatory medication in a syringe and vile in the truck, with no prescription. It was on Kawasaki company property, which is a breach of contract/boarder line illegal.

If he was a champ and winning races / wasn’t a pain in the ass to deal with (i.e. lying about weight during suspension)... they probably would have looked past it or given him a warning.
Well there’s one name for the cheater list that didn’t get caught?

Like I said before everyone uses some sort of PED it’s just that many performance enhancers aren’t illegal.
The funny thing is many PEDS are legal if you get a TUE! (Sit around and think about that for awhile)

Does anyone know how many riders have a TUE?

Getting a Doctor to say you need something is about as hard as getting a handicap sticker for your car!
12/9/2017 11:04am
I think the most shocking thing in all of this is that parents would pay Jeff Alessi to train their kids.
UpTiTe wrote:
Why not? He's good at it.
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example...
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example. Now those kids he was teaching are caught up in all this. It seems like he was implying that one or more of his students is/was/asked to be on some sort of PED. I could be misunderstanding it all. He didn't really present a thought out reasonable argument. Just for the fact you could get caught up in one of his shitstorms (which no denying happens regularly) is enough to keep me away.
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it.

His online Persona is a lot different than real life
SoCalMX70
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12/9/2017 11:09am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 11:13am
vikingBoy wrote:
Well said DC. I’m not taking anything away from RC, he has always been the fastest kid I’ve ever seen, PED’s or not. BUT, I have...
Well said DC.

I’m not taking anything away from RC, he has always been the fastest kid I’ve ever seen, PED’s or not.

BUT, I have heard the rumors of Top riders using PED’s and have to believe the hype. Never have we seen the domination in our sport, whether it’s SX/MX, since the incarnation of MC/RC.

Anybody remember RC’s first season on 250’s in SX. The guy would damn near crash his brains out every race, let alone have the speed to beat MC. Then miraculously mid season, he did a complete 180. Didn’t crash and then proceeded to beat MC on multiple occasions. Maybe his sprocket bolts weren’t tight enough??? Idk, but it was a bit fishy. And then RC went on to dominate for the rest of his career. Then started the domination sequence!!! Seems like ever since then, there has been a star that dominates to some degree in this sport. Looking back to the prior years of MC and RC, it was usually a tossup between the top 5 guys to whom was going to win. The Bailey, Johnson era. The Ward, Stanton, Bradshaw era. and so one.

If anyone has seen the “Icaras” documentary, then you know how easy it is to pass these drug tests. So even if there is wada testing at the races, that frankly doesn’t mean shit...
RC never had even a sniff of winning in his first 250 season ('99) and won only at Daytona in 2000.

Edit: oops missed DC's reply
kkawboy14
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12/9/2017 11:11am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2017 11:12am
UpTiTe wrote:
Why not? He's good at it.
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example...
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example. Now those kids he was teaching are caught up in all this. It seems like he was implying that one or more of his students is/was/asked to be on some sort of PED. I could be misunderstanding it all. He didn't really present a thought out reasonable argument. Just for the fact you could get caught up in one of his shitstorms (which no denying happens regularly) is enough to keep me away.
UpTiTe wrote:
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it. His online Persona is a...
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it.

His online Persona is a lot different than real life
Every Pro knows about this thread already!

Some are shaking their heads and some are saying yep he’s right!
MX-LIFE.
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12/9/2017 11:18am
90smoto wrote:
If memory serves me correct the Davi and locker discussion was talked about on Pulp on serval different occasions. One converastion I remember someone saying that...
If memory serves me correct the Davi and locker discussion was talked about on Pulp on serval different occasions. One converastion I remember someone saying that whatever was found in Davis locker was not PED related, but rather a drug that he would of needed a prescription for.
davistld01 wrote:
I remember that too...and it was super, duper, hushed up. Some say it was an anti-inflammatory drug, I even heard it might have been some kind...
I remember that too...and it was super, duper, hushed up. Some say it was an anti-inflammatory drug, I even heard it might have been some kind of opiate painkiller or something. I don't know...but it never made it out into the "public knowledge" area either.

This is a tiny sport, and it's also very "closed". If you think any team managers or members of a riders entourage is going to drop their riders in the grease, you're crazy. And, it's very doubtful that any managers would do it to a rider from a competitors team out of the fear of being under the microscope themselves if the tables got turned. The chance of any real solid evidence of pro riders doping coming out is poor at the very least.
Yeah that was very interesting with the Davi Millsaps situation hey DC since you seem to be in the know of what Jeff is talking about can you shed some light on the Davi Millsaps situation?? I m a Davi fan but like James who was blasted why no info on Davi Millsaps? A syringe..??
MX-LIFE.
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12/9/2017 11:21am
Who was the team manager at that time?
-MAVERICK-
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12/9/2017 11:22am
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example...
He might very well be a good teacher. It's of my opinion that he is a bit unhinged. Just look at this thread as an example. Now those kids he was teaching are caught up in all this. It seems like he was implying that one or more of his students is/was/asked to be on some sort of PED. I could be misunderstanding it all. He didn't really present a thought out reasonable argument. Just for the fact you could get caught up in one of his shitstorms (which no denying happens regularly) is enough to keep me away.
UpTiTe wrote:
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it. His online Persona is a...
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it.

His online Persona is a lot different than real life
kkawboy14 wrote:
Every Pro knows about this thread already!

Some are shaking their heads and some are saying yep he’s right!
No one reads Vital. Didn't you know that?
kkawboy14
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12/9/2017 11:25am
UpTiTe wrote:
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it. His online Persona is a...
I'm willing to bet that not one of them even really know aboit this thread, let alone caught up in it.

His online Persona is a lot different than real life
kkawboy14 wrote:
Every Pro knows about this thread already!

Some are shaking their heads and some are saying yep he’s right!
-MAVERICK- wrote:
No one reads Vital. Didn't you know that?
Oh yeah I forgot!

Just doing my part in trying to get this little gem to 30 pages Smile
ML512
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12/9/2017 11:27am
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Who was the team manager at that time?
Dan Fahie.

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