PED Allegations

mark911
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12/11/2017 12:52pm


brettmx
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12/11/2017 6:46pm
DC wrote:
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here... To go back and suggest...
Gang, I went back and read this whole thread again too, and I want to make a couple of points here...

To go back and suggest that Ricky Carmichael won because he started working with Aldon is missing a few points. RC was a dominant amateur for 10 years before and the best 125cc rider EVER before Johnny O'Mara introduced him to Aldon Baker. (And then James Stewart became an even faster 125 rider.) Then he got serious about training. Like Tom Brady, he watched everything he put in his body, every meal, every beverage... He once told me he couldn't wait to retire because "I've been on a diet for a decade!"

In 2007, when he was on a partial schedule and only riding half the races, he managed to win two SX main events against Stewart and Reed and Windham, and all six outdoor nationals he entered, and then the Motocross of Nations.

In 2011, well off his diet, he went and dominated Loretta Lynn's in the Vet class.

And even now, ten years after he retired, he can hop on a bike and flat-out fly. If he went back into training, I don't doubt he could battle for podiums and maybe even wins again.

My point is this: Carmichael wasn't just an animal with training, he was a remarkably talented athlete with an incredible ability to ride a motorcycle. Discrediting him here a dozen years after he quit is ridiculous. The man could ride a motorcycle, way back when as a kid, and right now still. If you don't believe that, go back and watch all those dominant 125cc wins from '97 to '99 when he was heavy. He could beat anyone but McGrath and he knew he had to get in better shape to beat Jeremy, which he finally did in 2000-2001. Then he worked his ass off for six more years and kept winning. His career was a masterpiece, not a science experiment.

Respect.

DC
Racer X

Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
APLMAN99
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12/11/2017 7:18pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Maybe Matthes could get a list of all the riders who are able to use illegal drugs by having a TUE?
Robgvx wrote:
I'm told there are some in GPs who have a 'folder full' of TUE's.
MXMattii wrote:
Saw it myself Sick
Really? Are you saying that you accessed medical records without a vital need?

That'd actually be a pretty big violation here and you might even be subject to criminal charges.......
12/11/2017 7:24pm
Interesting how this was moved with the amount of trash still up on the moto forum.

The Shop

Forty
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12/11/2017 7:28pm
I posted on page 1 that this wouldn’t last long. Went 27 pages. I’m clueless.
Uncle Tony
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12/11/2017 8:26pm
brettmx wrote:
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very...
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
There's rumors of 50plus guys doing viagra before motos, but hey what do I know, I'm just an old vet racer
brettmx
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12/11/2017 8:36pm
brettmx wrote:
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very...
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
Uncle Tony wrote:
There's rumors of 50plus guys doing viagra before motos, but hey what do I know, I'm just an old vet racer
I think they've mistaken PED- for Penis Enhancing Drug. Although it's a vasodilator so I wonder what that might do for performance outside the intended use. They may be on to something there.
kzizok
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12/11/2017 9:33pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2017 9:33pm
brettmx wrote:
I think they've mistaken PED- for Penis Enhancing Drug. Although it's a vasodilator so I wonder what that might do for performance outside the intended use...
I think they've mistaken PED- for Penis Enhancing Drug. Although it's a vasodilator so I wonder what that might do for performance outside the intended use. They may be on to something there.
Treating erectile dysfunction wasnt it’s intended use. It was to treat high blood pressure (pulmonary, etc.) and/or provide better blood flow. They noticed a consistent side effect that soon changed the focus.

They are, however, also used today for better flow etc., even in neonates that need help right after birth.
twotwosix
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12/12/2017 10:37am
brettmx wrote:
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very...
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
I think you are 110% wrong.
KennyT
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12/12/2017 11:24am
brettmx wrote:
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very...
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
Uncle Tony wrote:
There's rumors of 50plus guys doing viagra before motos, but hey what do I know, I'm just an old vet racer
I tried it once....until it hit the kill switch mid air
brettmx
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12/12/2017 12:12pm
brettmx wrote:
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very...
Yeah, it's all about the diet. Uh huh. Maybe these guys are genetic freaks, I don't know. But I can tell you it is very very hard to train at the levels that you need to train at to get the aerobic capacity and strength necessary to hold onto a mx bike for 35+minutes in the heat-never slowing, without breaking your body down where recovery becomes impossible. There is too much money at stake for there not to be "doping" going on. Shit, 60 year olds are getting popped for "doping" in local bicycle races and they're only looking to win a chain or water bottle. So I'm finding it pretty unrealistic that there isn't a fair amount of PED use in motocross, both amateur and professional.
twotwosix wrote:
I think you are 110% wrong.
Yeah, probably you're right about them genetic freaks. If you actually believe there isn't PED use among the top riders you're living in complete and utter denial.
KO93
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12/13/2017 10:56am Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 11:15am
Most of professional athletes are doping to some extent. And MX/SX is no exception.
If done correctly and on professional program analysis will be clean.
Why Armstrong was not cought for so long?
Just watch the movie "Icarus" on Netflix. It explains many things regarding professional doping.
SidewayzMike
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12/13/2017 12:15pm
I will be honest, I’m glad this thread was shot down, even tho it’s a serious matter I never intended for my views to be transferred...
I will be honest, I’m glad this thread was shot down, even tho it’s a serious matter I never intended for my views to be transferred here where guyb is also not worried about how many views this kind of thread gets, he to is part of the media that is controlled. For me, I can now focus on getting a timeline together, and everything ready. I said two years ago I would do this, I would bring awareness to the problems and put pressure on the sport to create a fair working environment that the athletes can be apart of off the track. This is what Alessi’s do, we are here for this sport and it’s racers. I want people to remember how much time I have in this, believe me when I say I know every aspect of every detail that goes on behind the curtains. I have nothing to gain, I know the politics and I know my position. The people that know me will never have a bad thing to say about me because I’m a good person, and the people that don’t know me and have something to say just have a personal motiv to undermine the knowledge I have about the industry that I literally broke my back and feet for. I wont let it go on unheard, until I have put enough pressure on the people to support what I’m saying, which is a plea for everyone who spends those long days at the track in hopes to further reach pro status, I will continue to voice what’s right and what’s wrong. Even if my past has put me in question, my mouth is still a free mouth, not a paid one like you all know and hear right now. That is it.
colonel wrote:
Seems like you have a stutter reading this once again. Stop repeating your self and put you money where your mouth it. But 1st go back...
Seems like you have a stutter reading this once again. Stop repeating your self and put you money where your mouth it. But 1st go back like 26 pages and realise that in your timeline you need to remove Aldon having anything to do with Armstrong, remove he ran away when Armstrong got in trouble, remove he came to mx due to that.

Tha was sort of your opening argument which couldnt be any further from the truth and note you clearly weren't at that meeting and the laser pointer was yours, not an ex chicks.

Good luck this isnt Operation Puerto or Oil for drugs.

as a former racer from Southern Ca I grew to be not a very big fan of anything Alessi. But something about 801's argument that i must agree with. the PED argument has always been so political, it goes from zero to a hundred overnight. People are left with the belief that its not happening, that it has rarely happened and someone who does it will always get caught. People are discounting J' alessi because he didn't go out and just give a paragraph with names and times and places. hes true the media is very controlled, every industry has dark secrets that they go thru lengths to cover up, just ask hollywood and the casting couch. I have spoken what I personally know about PED's in motoX. and let me tell you. My post were removed from racerX, and I was banned. To this day i am banned from racerX, my threads never lasted on ANY forum or thread . Its obviously a touchy subject. I like vital too much, so i'll keep my mouth shut. but must say, Jeff is right on that. Dont discount what he says, he was balls deep right in the middle of the shady side of MX and for many years. these riders are paying a lot of money for trainers and coaches. If coach says take this, you wont fade after 15 laps,,,, chances are If i'm a competetive person making a lot of money to not fade after 15 laps...
Hammer 663s
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12/13/2017 1:26pm
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/sport/chris-froome-drugs-test-tour-de-fra… I'm sure no one is surprised.

According to the article, 1/3 of Team Sky's riders have asthma and allergies. Can you imagine that most are on inhalers or orals to help them "cope" with the problems? This sport is embarrassingly dirty. So why would we be shocked that it's in moto too? If it is at any serious level, it will come out. As others have said, there is a huge game of cat and mouse between the athletes/trainers and the testers.

Hammer 663s
cbuehler767
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12/17/2017 12:27pm
snape99 wrote:
Tren always works well, Track snacks always appreciate a shredded vet in moto pants, strutting around the pits Wink
I hope you're joking since its awful for your cardio
cbuehler767
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12/17/2017 12:37pm
brettmx wrote:
I'm guessing there are quite a few Vet guys using testosterone, err I mean Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Trenbolone isn't something you should be messing around with...
I'm guessing there are quite a few Vet guys using testosterone, err I mean Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Trenbolone isn't something you should be messing around with. If you've got the money Humane Growth Hormone HGH micro-dosing, not like bodybuilder amounts, is the fountain of youth. EPO can be risky (and it's expensive) but having more red blood cells floating around is an instant boost to your endurance. Testosterone is enough for muscle development and strength improvements for most riders.

Oh, and it's already been mentioned factory riders aren't paying trainers bags full of money to watch them do cardio, lift weights, and ride around a track all day. They pay them to make sure they don't get caught using performance enhancing drugs.
colonel wrote:
EPO is $200 a box of epprex 6 pre-filled syringes. So not really expensive. Also not that dangerous at all, despite the stories going around, most...
EPO is $200 a box of epprex 6 pre-filled syringes. So not really expensive.
Also not that dangerous at all, despite the stories going around, most of them are actually untrue and unfounded.
HGH is fairly cheap but you need a fair amount to get the process started and that where it becomes alittle costly.
You don't need to micro dose HGH. Infact no one does.
HA!! Hgh is anything but cheap. Maybe some generic Chinese garbage that's got who knows what inside the vials. But pharma hgh is around $700 a kit.
cbuehler767
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12/17/2017 12:41pm
Steiny wrote:
He probably means microdosing test. Microdose is the new trendy word in athletics and most dont have any idea what it means. I'm not a regular...
He probably means microdosing test. Microdose is the new trendy word in athletics and most dont have any idea what it means.

I'm not a regular poster and I have zero cred here, so take this how you will. PEDs 100% exist in motocross, I personally taught two factory rider how to do it before personal trainers were a big deal, and I know for a fact some modern riders are doing it. Dropping names? Nope, but I will tell you this, every factory level rider with a decent paycheck that has been injured in the last probably 20 years has filled their bodies with HGH to heal faster and stronger, ALL OF THEM.

In reality, peds are good for the sport, riders would be out longer with injuries, and most people have no idea how much their bodies breakdown from all the travel and training they do.


Genetics dont lie, how do you turn soft clumsy kids into world class athletes?


Hgh is great for healing injuries its also great for causing carpal tunnel syndrome like affects. Wonderful for motocross riders for their hands to go numb and not be able to hold onto the bars after 2 laps
cbuehler767
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12/17/2017 3:00pm
wasummer46 wrote:
I understand him calling out JA801. But why throw jabs at Tomac? I of all people wanted him to represent USA, but grouping him into this...
I understand him calling out JA801. But why throw jabs at Tomac? I of all people wanted him to represent USA, but grouping him into this shit storm isn't needed.
Lucifa. wrote:
Because no one gives a fuck what that idiot Denny Stephenson says. How ironic, a Vital MX idiot calling out Vital MX idiots.
jdj727 wrote:
You must not really know who Denny is.. Stephenson was a beast on 125’s back in the day and would hand MC, Fro, and those guys...
You must not really know who Denny is.. Stephenson was a beast on 125’s back in the day and would hand MC, Fro, and those guys there asses.. He being sarcastic yes but Coming from me I lined up on the same gate as Stanton all the way to Bubba and back in the day guys partied more then training when RC in 2001 showed up at A1 you couldn’t even recognize him.. yes the fat kid was insanely in shape, proceeded to hand MC a ass beating.. I don’t have any evidence but if you don’t think PED’s helped then your blind.. I’m pretty sure from 2000 and on PEDs took a bigger roll in supercross riders...
Yup before 2001 RC sucked. That's all the evidence I need
MXMattii
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12/17/2017 3:05pm
Robgvx wrote:
I'm told there are some in GPs who have a 'folder full' of TUE's.
MXMattii wrote:
Saw it myself Sick
APLMAN99 wrote:
Really? Are you saying that you accessed medical records without a vital need? That'd actually be a pretty big violation here and you might even be...
Really? Are you saying that you accessed medical records without a vital need?

That'd actually be a pretty big violation here and you might even be subject to criminal charges.......
When a rider walks together with his chaperon, to the control with something like this in his hand. You don't need to be the brightest light in the room to know what is in it. Also at smaller races were riders need to represent them self at certain place, and it comes in with such map under the arm, again you don't need to be the brightest light... And at some local races those rooms and toilets, who get used to collect samples are shared with the first response united and press people.

Not that long ago there was also a piece in a famous french motormagazine. A journalist helped with the organization from the GP and sat in the place, also used to collect samples and wrote about a rider who came in with a folder full op TUE's. It is not about seeing the real medical records, it's about seeing the maps were the TUE's are in.

Colonel said: Good luck this isnt Operation Puerto or Oil for drugs.
What would you say, if I told you that a sports journalist from the Belgium Television station (Sporza) lost his press pass at the GP's, because he came to do some digging about operation Puerto. Nothing came out of it, because only the UCI started a investigation. Sports such as F1 (FIA), Tennis, Soccer, Track and Field didn't started or started a very small investigation without any results. And Eufemiano Fuentes still doens't talk about his former clients. So we will never know why FIM/YS went gaga back then.
gerg
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12/17/2017 4:09pm
A few years ago in a Vital forum, a member that I considered an insider (I could have been completely wrong) predicted that one particular rider's...
A few years ago in a Vital forum, a member that I considered an insider (I could have been completely wrong) predicted that one particular rider's performance would drop significantly X number of weeks before the MXDN (because MXDN tested for PEDs). This "older' rider was charging hard both motos through the first several outdoors. Then, true to the Vital member's prediction, results dropped noticeably X weeks before the MXDN. Even though no names were mentioned, the changes in results were obvious for only one rider. Anybody else remember this? I'm trying to find the exact thread. Maybe all coincidence, but a really accurate prediction nonetheless. I suspect this same rider (still active) was referenced in JA's original posts/link.

One can only assume this is about Chad Reed.....are we completely counting out the crash at Millville for altering his performance the rest of the season?
And if referring to 2011 he won the first MXDN moto...yeah huge drop in performance.

snape99
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12/17/2017 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2017 7:11pm
snape99 wrote:
Tren always works well, Track snacks always appreciate a shredded vet in moto pants, strutting around the pits Wink
I hope you're joking since its awful for your cardio
Lol. Makes you look good in the pits. Not so much out on track Wink
APLMAN99
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12/18/2017 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 12/18/2017 2:42pm
MXMattii wrote:
Saw it myself Sick
APLMAN99 wrote:
Really? Are you saying that you accessed medical records without a vital need? That'd actually be a pretty big violation here and you might even be...
Really? Are you saying that you accessed medical records without a vital need?

That'd actually be a pretty big violation here and you might even be subject to criminal charges.......
MXMattii wrote:
When a rider walks together with his chaperon, to the control with something like this [img]https://hwimages2.beslist.net/beslist-images/361/F300/000/009/890/9890677.jpg[/img] in his hand. You don't need to be the brightest...
When a rider walks together with his chaperon, to the control with something like this in his hand. You don't need to be the brightest light in the room to know what is in it. Also at smaller races were riders need to represent them self at certain place, and it comes in with such map under the arm, again you don't need to be the brightest light... And at some local races those rooms and toilets, who get used to collect samples are shared with the first response united and press people.

Not that long ago there was also a piece in a famous french motormagazine. A journalist helped with the organization from the GP and sat in the place, also used to collect samples and wrote about a rider who came in with a folder full op TUE's. It is not about seeing the real medical records, it's about seeing the maps were the TUE's are in.

Colonel said: Good luck this isnt Operation Puerto or Oil for drugs.
What would you say, if I told you that a sports journalist from the Belgium Television station (Sporza) lost his press pass at the GP's, because he came to do some digging about operation Puerto. Nothing came out of it, because only the UCI started a investigation. Sports such as F1 (FIA), Tennis, Soccer, Track and Field didn't started or started a very small investigation without any results. And Eufemiano Fuentes still doens't talk about his former clients. So we will never know why FIM/YS went gaga back then.
That's bizarre. Players in stick and ball sports don't carry TUEs around with them. The testing isn't done on site, there's zero reason for the person collecting the sample to even know that an athlete even has a TUE. Technically the NFL calls it something different than a TUE, Ithink, but same concept....

I can't imagine any reason why an athlete would need to carry any paperwork to give a sample, as the results that come back later would be checked against active TUEs on file at either WADA or their national anti-doping organization, or perhaps the sanctioning body.

Samples are sealed, and sent to a testing lab.

Smells like bullshit........
kzizok
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12/27/2017 7:35pm
^^^^For the hundredth time, Jeff isn’t being attacked for what is going on. People aren’t saying that PED use is not going on. It happens and people agree that it happens. Jeff is catching flack for naming names with nothing better than unfounded accusations.
Mr.E
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12/27/2017 9:04pm
I only got through page six of this before I posted so if that was stated 99 times in the next 20 pages then I apologize for missing it.
Seriously though, I get that. And as others have said, that wasn't very tactful on Jeff's part to say the least.
The problem still exists though.
1/22/2018 7:25pm
I have doctors names, and I have riders ready to talk about it. All I need is to get the people, the riders and the parents...
I have doctors names, and I have riders ready to talk about it. All I need is to get the people, the riders and the parents to get on board and watch what we fix, who’s gonna have to leave and also why some left early before they got busted. This is happening, everyone knows about it and they are scared to talk, scared to lose the opportunity to make a grand every weekend. I’m not in that position. I’m looking at the effort I’m putting in helping kids get ready to enter an industry that should be much better then it is right now, I didn’t start this talk to make a post, I started this to find a solution, no matter how hard I get pressured I won’t back off on this problem because it envolves kids. They need to be protected.
Jeff is 100% correct.
CR250Rider
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2/11/2018 3:30pm
Best topics are usually in the dungeon
GuyB
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7/13/2018 8:27am
CR250Rider wrote:
Best topics are usually in the dungeon
Yeah, no.

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