The 2018 450 Shootout is LIVE!

Dinosaur Media wrote:

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his...

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his 350 pounds? I think he has a vested interest in keefer whick is sad. I dobt know how a shootout could be done any better than this...especially when lap times are involved. To me that means the most...sometimes you feel awesome on a bike but yoyr laptimes may not agree...so the bike that has on average the lowest time across all riders should be a no brainer...if out and out performance is the number one consideration...

Dinosaur Media wrote:

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his...

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his 350 pounds? I think he has a vested interest in keefer whick is sad. I dobt know how a shootout could be done any better than this...especially when lap times are involved. To me that means the most...sometimes you feel awesome on a bike but yoyr laptimes may not agree...so the bike that has on average the lowest time across all riders should be a no brainer...if out and out performance is the number one consideration...

TeamGreen wrote:

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track...

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track and...in some cases...in development.

Sometimes I think people fly by the fact that these bikes were ridden am/pm at 3 different locations & all ride days were a coupl'a days apart. The spread of the rider's "skill sets" was very broad, too. All these things combine to give us ample opportunity to get to know the different bikes and the settings we may want to try on them.

I went out of my way to spend plenty of time on the "all new" bikes (YZF & RMZ), right off the bat...during our 1st day...aka "Photo Day". Even had to get the tools out and adjust things myself...which really helps you get to know the bike(s).

In the end, different folks test and report on things in different ways...all of which gives the reader and the buyer a diverse set of opinions.

That's a Good Thing.

TeamGreen wrote:

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track...

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track and...in some cases...in development.

Sometimes I think people fly by the fact that these bikes were ridden am/pm at 3 different locations & all ride days were a coupl'a days apart. The spread of the rider's "skill sets" was very broad, too. All these things combine to give us ample opportunity to get to know the different bikes and the settings we may want to try on them.

I went out of my way to spend plenty of time on the "all new" bikes (YZF & RMZ), right off the bat...during our 1st day...aka "Photo Day". Even had to get the tools out and adjust things myself...which really helps you get to know the bike(s).

In the end, different folks test and report on things in different ways...all of which gives the reader and the buyer a diverse set of opinions.

That's a Good Thing.

Dinosaur Media wrote:

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his...

Why does Matthes even weigh (get it?) on shootouts? When was the last time he even rode? And what bike would be set up for his 350 pounds? I think he has a vested interest in keefer whick is sad. I dobt know how a shootout could be done any better than this...especially when lap times are involved. To me that means the most...sometimes you feel awesome on a bike but yoyr laptimes may not agree...so the bike that has on average the lowest time across all riders should be a no brainer...if out and out performance is the number one consideration...

TeamGreen wrote:

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track...

Steve still knows what's goin' on out on the track and in the pits...he knows all the people that work on these bikes at the track and...in some cases...in development.

Sometimes I think people fly by the fact that these bikes were ridden am/pm at 3 different locations & all ride days were a coupl'a days apart. The spread of the rider's "skill sets" was very broad, too. All these things combine to give us ample opportunity to get to know the different bikes and the settings we may want to try on them.

I went out of my way to spend plenty of time on the "all new" bikes (YZF & RMZ), right off the bat...during our 1st day...aka "Photo Day". Even had to get the tools out and adjust things myself...which really helps you get to know the bike(s).

In the end, different folks test and report on things in different ways...all of which gives the reader and the buyer a diverse set of opinions.

That's a Good Thing.

Dinosaur Media wrote:

I hear you there. I would prefer to hear from someone like you who has actually rode it rather than someone reporting on what an insider...

I hear you there. I would prefer to hear from someone like you who has actually rode it rather than someone reporting on what an insider said. I like Keefer and Matthes but I prefer the Vital method. That being said I am in interested to see Keefers format this year and who his band if testers are. It would be awesome if Matthes joined...even if he snapped the linkages off of all the bikes...

drt410 wrote:

One of the important parts of the shootout is how they laid out some of the easy fixes that will make each bike much better than...

One of the important parts of the shootout is how they laid out some of the easy fixes that will make each bike much better than they come from the factory.

One example is that the yamaha needs to go up a tooth in the rear and with some new bars its on par with the shootout winners. The kawi doesnt top the list on anything but is an extremely well rounded bike which may suit a lot of riders better.

I think the suzuki would benefit a lot from getting the suspension done, a pipe, and a few light weight parts. They also said the engine has tons of engine braking making it feel heavier than it is as already the heaviest bike. The honda isnt much lighter but the centralized mass makes it feel lighter than it really is. A flywheel may change this bike completely.

If you are a suzuki guy and love the turning ability a few aftermarket parts will make this bike very competitive. It seems other manufacturors have caught up with the chassis and turning so they are really running out of time, but if you love suzukis this bike is still very capable especially with a few mods. They really need to add electric start before they get lost in the dust, but that adds even more weight.

I wonder if they would entertain going back to a steel frame since they have nothing to lose at this point to separate them from other japanese manufacturors. I know this would put them at square one and get rid of the "suzuki feel" but they have nothing to lose...except tons of customers and every shootout. An electric start steel frame japanese mx bike would be a cool way to separate them. Honda has the downdraft, yamaha the reverse cylinder...etc.

We have to remember these are stock bikes and most people dont keep their bikes stock. I think its important to note that a couple of these bikes will be so much better with a couple easy mods. Finally someone was asking why electric start has such a high value. As a casual rider its not as important but during a race having electric start can be the difference between losing 3 spots and 15 on a stall or crash.

aeffertz wrote:

A lot of you seem to misinterpret in the results. It isn't: 1st: Worlds Greatest Bike 6th: Pile of Shit All these bikes are good. It's...

A lot of you seem to misinterpret in the results. It isn't:

1st: Worlds Greatest Bike
6th: Pile of Shit

All these bikes are good. It's more like:

1st: Best bike collectively
6th: Not quite as good as 1st place

On top of that, you guys saying these guys are biased need to look in the mirror. Your logic that a certain bike needs to finish ahead of another bike because you say so is the definition of a bias. Until you thoroughly test each 2018 model bike yourself, hold your judgment, opinion and your name calling. Jackasses

Sixeightone wrote:

The only one worth reading is ML's write up. It is by far the most detailed explaining the most minute changes between the models. Brian Davis's...

The only one worth reading is ML's write up. It is by far the most detailed explaining the most minute changes between the models. Brian Davis's review putting husky 6th I had to laugh at, that guy can go pound sand. I hope vital doesn't use him next year, he is an absolute JACKASS. There is no way the Husky is the worst bike. Super pumped to see the Honda do well. But with out a doubt the Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawi all still feel like 2007 models to me... Nice work ML512!!!!

ML512 wrote:

Myself and Brian spoke about the husky decision at length. I understand why he chose it and we talked about the best case scenario, if the...

Myself and Brian spoke about the husky decision at length. I understand why he chose it and we talked about the best case scenario, if the problems he had were fixed, where would it have finished? He said no matter what he preferred the feel of the chassis and engine characteristics of the KTM. So the Husky under best circumstances would've got Fourth on his list as the KTm had third. That wouldn't have changed the final result, it still would finish third overall as two other riders placed in fourth.

While I thank you for your acknowledgment of my work, calling a friend of mine and absolute jackass based off a bike review is ridiculous.

Sixeightone wrote:

- I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I work at a dealer and I see biased opinions effect the image of what motorcycle a customer...

- I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I work at a dealer and I see biased opinions effect the image of what motorcycle a customer will purchase all the time. And those are always whackers. He states that he hates "ANY" air fork, so right off the bat he is creating an opinion. His current bike is a 2016 CRF450, which might I add came with a lower pressure air fork? Is that the pot calling the kettle black?

- I did not read one word after I read his review of the husky. He writes many positive things that he likes about the bike, but places it in sixth place. To me, I see a biased opinion because he rides a Honda and doesn't like air forks. I think when you are writing a review for a motorcycle, on what most would consider the most viewed forum in the motocross industry you need to have a more open mind.

- I see that the husky scored the most first place awards also so for him to put it last.. Come on, it's clear as day he has something against the husky. He placed the KTM third, because it wasn't a Honda. I mean ML512 reviews are always the most unbiased best reviews I read. His information is always good you can almost count on it. For ML512 to even let that review be read on vital is heartbreaking. I hope he is never used on a vital review again.

- I'd also like to see how each of the bikes would fair on the east coast with some real dirt. I wonder what our guys would say with nice chocolate cake loam and deep ruts. It's kind of a bummer that all the test riding gets done on the West Coast.

drt410 wrote:

One of the important parts of the shootout is how they laid out some of the easy fixes that will make each bike much better than...

One of the important parts of the shootout is how they laid out some of the easy fixes that will make each bike much better than they come from the factory.

One example is that the yamaha needs to go up a tooth in the rear and with some new bars its on par with the shootout winners. The kawi doesnt top the list on anything but is an extremely well rounded bike which may suit a lot of riders better.

I think the suzuki would benefit a lot from getting the suspension done, a pipe, and a few light weight parts. They also said the engine has tons of engine braking making it feel heavier than it is as already the heaviest bike. The honda isnt much lighter but the centralized mass makes it feel lighter than it really is. A flywheel may change this bike completely.

If you are a suzuki guy and love the turning ability a few aftermarket parts will make this bike very competitive. It seems other manufacturors have caught up with the chassis and turning so they are really running out of time, but if you love suzukis this bike is still very capable especially with a few mods. They really need to add electric start before they get lost in the dust, but that adds even more weight.

I wonder if they would entertain going back to a steel frame since they have nothing to lose at this point to separate them from other japanese manufacturors. I know this would put them at square one and get rid of the "suzuki feel" but they have nothing to lose...except tons of customers and every shootout. An electric start steel frame japanese mx bike would be a cool way to separate them. Honda has the downdraft, yamaha the reverse cylinder...etc.

We have to remember these are stock bikes and most people dont keep their bikes stock. I think its important to note that a couple of these bikes will be so much better with a couple easy mods. Finally someone was asking why electric start has such a high value. As a casual rider its not as important but during a race having electric start can be the difference between losing 3 spots and 15 on a stall or crash.

kiwifan wrote:

yes, and the better bikes will be even better with a couple of mods as well....

MX690 wrote:

Waiting to see Keefer's shootout, then I'll compare the two shootouts, hopefully there is some consistency.

Johnny89superbike wrote:

All l can say is "l'm disapointed that Suz can change so much and not make a better bike, should have just rereleased the 2011 bike...

All l can say is "l'm disapointed that Suz can change so much and not make a better bike, should have just rereleased the 2011 bike and killed the others on price".

drt410 wrote:

Yea Im just saying if you like a certain brand they give good insights into what mods they need to get them up to par. They...

Yea Im just saying if you like a certain brand they give good insights into what mods they need to get them up to par. They also have a good mix of faster and slower riders to give a good all around review. The dude who bought a honda after reading the shootout I hope that wasn't the only reason, although it is a great bike. All of the bikes are so good these days it really is just pick a color. Yes some weight a lot more and others less but they are all miles better than a few years ago and those bikes were great at the time as well and would still be competitive today.

miketherider wrote:

ML512 did a really great job describing his pros and cons to each bike, especially the cons with suspension setup and what the "feeling" is. I...

ML512 did a really great job describing his pros and cons to each bike, especially the cons with suspension setup and what the "feeling" is. I also enjoy how each review touched on where the bikes did best/struggled in certain track conditions. Living somewhere where 90% of the tracks are the same (sandy, rough, not as technical), I have more confidence in buying something that will work in those conditions. As much as I hate to admit it, my days on the 250 2t may be limited having read the review on that Husky...

Who would have thought writers would praise an air-fork in 2018? And, WP of all of them?

The most glaring thing sticking out to me is that in 2018 we have a nearly 15 pound difference still between the lightest and heaviest bike. And, how the Suzuki is the heaviest despite no battery/e-start.

Sixeightone wrote:

The only one worth reading is ML's write up. It is by far the most detailed explaining the most minute changes between the models. Brian Davis's...

The only one worth reading is ML's write up. It is by far the most detailed explaining the most minute changes between the models. Brian Davis's review putting husky 6th I had to laugh at, that guy can go pound sand. I hope vital doesn't use him next year, he is an absolute JACKASS. There is no way the Husky is the worst bike. Super pumped to see the Honda do well. But with out a doubt the Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawi all still feel like 2007 models to me... Nice work ML512!!!!

Langhammx wrote:

As a friend of Brian's, I feel the need to defend him. Why is he a JACKASS ? I'm pretty sure he's allowed to give his...

As a friend of Brian's, I feel the need to defend him. Why is he a JACKASS ? I'm pretty sure he's allowed to give his opinion and I'm not sure how well you ride, but he goes pretty good and his opinion is valid. Not everyone is going to rank the bikes the same, that's kind of why they use a variety of riders, both age and ability. I've never been part of a shootout, but know many of the riders that do. It's not an easy thing to do, IMO. Especially when the keyboard warriors, like yourself, go on their rants about their opinions... Think twice before posting, it'll save you from being a "JACKASS" !!