How to Handle C-baggers

billyp330
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414
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Dorset, OH US
9/11/2017 8:46am
billyp330 wrote:
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos...
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos to keep from pointing out but if he cant qualify for LL's in C class then he definitely doesn't belong in B class
c0ncEpT wrote:
Who said he's never made it?
if he made it he would not be allowed to even try again in C class. That's an AMA rule. Make it to LL's in any class (I believe excluding 50s) and you can have to qualify in B class
downard254
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4070
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Location
Bremen, OH US
9/11/2017 8:50am
I'm aging myself here, but when I started racing in the early 80's at age 15, novice was novice. It seemed back then that we all wanted to move up to the next class, that was the goal. Now a days, it seems like everyone just wants the trophy or a win. I get it, a win is a win, except to say you won the C class is, well, less impressive than winning B or A for that matter.
Funny story, one of my racing buddies I first started riding with said a friend of theirs started racing in the 70's and when he first signed up, he signed up for A cause, well, that's the first letter in the alphabet. Story goes that by the time he figured out the way it was supposed to work, he was already running well in the A class and stayed there. May be a little puffing up of the story, or the guy was a natural talent, or both, but if it's true, it makes me chuckle when I hear it.
9/11/2017 9:25am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2017 9:25am
Most sand bagger c guys near me would get Top 3 b class. I mean the ones that moved up this year from sand bagging C are top 3 in B
ducknuts
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Location
Mount Morris, MI US
9/11/2017 9:34am
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

lol I know who you're talking about. I'd have to imagine he'll be forced to bump up next season, as I'm sure he's gonna be too fast.

The Shop

TSCHAM101
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1064
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Location
Norco, CA US
9/11/2017 10:00am
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

billyp330 wrote:
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos...
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos to keep from pointing out but if he cant qualify for LL's in C class then he definitely doesn't belong in B class
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us unless you ride support in a vet club.. i just turned 25, i own my own home, have a career. The C-class talent is full of kids trying to slam each other in hopes of making it pro, which some might, but get out of the C class.

I like the TLD family, but lets be real. Max lee is not a C - class rider. Thats the kind of talent i would have to line up with on a C class race, and if i race D i look like the sand bagger because i hit all the jumps and i can run expert with the OTHG and Old timers.. There is not a place for people like me, and most of the people on this forum.

there should be a hobbyist class,for people that have a full time job, home and a family class. i cant afford to be slammed by a 16yr old kid, which happens a lot down here.
imoto34
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3780
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Location
TN US
9/11/2017 10:11am
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

ducknuts wrote:
lol I know who you're talking about. I'd have to imagine he'll be forced to bump up next season, as I'm sure he's gonna be too...
lol I know who you're talking about. I'd have to imagine he'll be forced to bump up next season, as I'm sure he's gonna be too fast.
If he has made it to LL once, it can't ride C class again. Just as if a 65 rider raced LL and then didn't ride for 5 years, he still could not go to LL in C class.
billyp330
Posts
414
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Location
Dorset, OH US
9/11/2017 10:20am
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

billyp330 wrote:
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos...
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos to keep from pointing out but if he cant qualify for LL's in C class then he definitely doesn't belong in B class
TSCHAM101 wrote:
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us...
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us unless you ride support in a vet club.. i just turned 25, i own my own home, have a career. The C-class talent is full of kids trying to slam each other in hopes of making it pro, which some might, but get out of the C class.

I like the TLD family, but lets be real. Max lee is not a C - class rider. Thats the kind of talent i would have to line up with on a C class race, and if i race D i look like the sand bagger because i hit all the jumps and i can run expert with the OTHG and Old timers.. There is not a place for people like me, and most of the people on this forum.

there should be a hobbyist class,for people that have a full time job, home and a family class. i cant afford to be slammed by a 16yr old kid, which happens a lot down here.
I see what your saying here as I am also a part time racer/rider whom is 24, just bought my own house (with tons a land to build my own track soon!!!), has a career and also have a wife and two kids. Since you live in so-cal and I live in Ohio its two completely different worlds with racing lol I didn't realize talents like Max Lee race C class out there, that is a bit ridiculous. Don't you guys have classes like Extra Bike, Two-Stroke, etc that you could race as just a hobbyist??? We have a lot of problems filling gates out here so i race C mostly bc its the only class with more then 10 ppl in it as those "hobbyist" classes as well as the B and A classes norm have less then 5. Also like stated before with my skill level i feel i belong in C class (Iv nvr been a top 15 C rider at any major AM race iv tried). Good luck racing in So-Cal!! haha
JWACK
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2561
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Location
NM US
9/11/2017 10:35am
Top 3 at the series end forced up one class at the end of the year. Add sportsman class in between c and b class. Then line sportsman up with b class to learn the new speed without having to actually race them for the win.
Alex.434
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Warner Springs, CA US
9/11/2017 11:11am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2017 11:37am
Agreed @TSCHAM101

FWIW try being 38! I'd like to bring my money and my bike to some local races out here in Socal but don't even bother because it's a joke. I've watched 'normal Am races' at Pala and Milestone and the C-class kids are whipping and scrubbing every jump with both feet on the pegs railing turns. Yeah no. You are pretty much relegated to the Old Guy Clubs which are fun and all but not the same overall feed/vibe/gates/etc.

The culture in MX is so odd. I come from roadracing first and you jump up as quick as you can. Very few people sandbag overall as it's looked upon very poorly and rules are in place to automatically bump you up. If anything we have to put rules in place to KEEP people from bumping up too early!

However in MX it's the opposite and it's encouraged. I remember sitting with (Big Shot Executive) and asking about his (Top Am Son) at Loretta's. He said he's doing well and in B. I was so confused, why is he in B? I thought he was a top kid and going pro? He's got an (OEM DEAL) and a (Major Gear Brand Deal) etc so why is he in the Intermediate class? Mr (Big Shot Moto Executive) said 'oh B is faster and better than A'. That kid is now on a (FACTORY) team.

Until the sport as a whole addresses the issue, it ain't going away. The promoters need to stop allowing it and the national organizers need to crack down on it. In this day and age of internet and information, there is no excuse for 'not knowing' someones level. If you see someone pulling shenanigans, like throwing results to stay down a class, fudging paperwork, acting like an idiot, you need to call it out as Race Directors/Promotors. I've seen roadracing directors (on both coasts) tell guys flat out 'we've warned you about your BS, you've used up your strikes, don't ever come back and btw, I'm emailing every other race director in the country so you are banned from all orgs'.

Maybe because there are just so many children in motocross racing compared to roadracing.

In the workplace ranting without solutions is frowned upon so fine, here's how I'd do it with my own Chicken Licks Raceway.

Jonny New Racer - Enter C class. If you finishing within Top 3 in any C class championship you are automatically moved up to B for the following year. Same with B class championships, finish in the Top 3 and you are automatically moved up to A for the following year.

If you move up from 50's to 65's after placing Top 3 in class championship, you are allowed to stay within the same
class for the following year. Same with 65's to Minis/Superminis and then up to Big Bikes (250F's). However once you reach 250F's no more. Going from 250F's to 450F's doesn't allow you to 'stay down in that class'. That only applies to the younger kids on the small bikes.

You may petition to move up early if your laptimes are within scope of the next class up's top half and your riding is deemed safe (like you aren't just Sketchy Jonny) by race director. Meaning if it's mid-season and I'm in C, and my laptimes would have me in the top half of B consistently (like 10th out of 20) then I could petition to move up early with race direction.

If you are B fast guy in Podunk Ohio and go to Loretta's (or big Am race in Texas, or Cali, etc) and get waxed. Too bad, go home and practice more and pull out the old stopwatch and practice practice. If you are that far off you aren't getting scouted by Mitch Payton anyway.


Whew. Nice rant! haha.. okay back to work.
c0ncEpT
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Harrison Twp., MI US
9/11/2017 11:17am
ducknuts wrote:
lol I know who you're talking about. I'd have to imagine he'll be forced to bump up next season, as I'm sure he's gonna be too...
lol I know who you're talking about. I'd have to imagine he'll be forced to bump up next season, as I'm sure he's gonna be too fast.
Kid is fast as hell. Not knocking him at all. He's gonna kill it in B-class. Which is the class he belongs in.
9/11/2017 11:28am
How to ACTUALLY handle c-baggers: Rally up all the C class riders saturday night and riot at the C- baggers trailer/RV with torches and pitchforks.
9/11/2017 12:05pm
You have to make noise with your local promotor to try and create an advancement system. Yeah, it's hard and it means you may need to get a few riders to roll up their sleeves and help monitor points, but it can payoff. To the people that do sandbag, you will never get better/faster riding with people you are faster than.
Bultaco
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Planet, VT US
9/11/2017 12:29pm
Get rid of the "a", "b", "c" class designations. Organize it nationally and call it Beginner, Intermediate, Expert. When the braggers have to say "I won my trophy in the Beginner class", it won't sound so good. Their own ego will move them up, just so they don't have to say "Beginner".

GangGreen
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473
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Mechanicsburg, PA US
9/11/2017 12:38pm
You have to make noise with your local promotor to try and create an advancement system. Yeah, it's hard and it means you may need to...
You have to make noise with your local promotor to try and create an advancement system. Yeah, it's hard and it means you may need to get a few riders to roll up their sleeves and help monitor points, but it can payoff. To the people that do sandbag, you will never get better/faster riding with people you are faster than.
"........make noise with your local promotor to try and create an advancement system. "
That's not going to work. The rider's who are racing in the Lynette Long National cannot move up a class at a local race or risk forfeiting their C Class eligibility once they qualified at the Area or Regional LL Qualifier.

It needs to be resolved at a higher level...... C Class, No National Championship and No Mfg. Contingency.

Instead of doing nothing, MX Sports should fix this AND proactively investigate what 4 stroke displacement works with the 125cc and 250cc National Motocross Class structure. That "Double-Displacement Rule" is severely outdated, and it's a "supplemental rule" only kept in Pro Racing.
rongi#401
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southern, CA US
9/11/2017 1:22pm
i got booted out of C right before the regional in 07. pissed me offAngry
mx12boy
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Reno, NV US
Fantasy
9/11/2017 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/11/2017 2:35pm
Back in 81 or 82 I was racing the Prairie City GP. It was a Disrict 36 race and I signed up to race the B class. I finished 3rd in my class and got a nasty letter from Disrict 36 saying I did not have enough points to move up from C to B class. They sent me my C card and told me not to do that again. So much for trying to move up on my own.
bvm111
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10081
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Las Vegas, NV US
9/11/2017 8:49pm
I am planning on racing for the first time in 18 years in a few weeks! I used to be a solid intermediate and could play with the local pros for a few laps back then. I am considering running 40+ novice but can't seem to bring myself to do it even though I will totally get smoked in the Intermediate class. I would rather get last in the Intermediate class than even mid pack Novice class... maybe it's a generational thing?
oldblood
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Placerville, CA US
9/11/2017 9:14pm
The same guy has won the 50+novice class the past 4 years at the hangtown amatuer days, what a joke.
BigRed
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Prior Lake, MN US
9/11/2017 9:44pm
Ride with faster people to get faster...... simple as that! Who cares about the sandbaggers they are only hurting themselves
9/11/2017 10:31pm
BigRed wrote:
Ride with faster people to get faster...... simple as that! Who cares about the sandbaggers they are only hurting themselves
^^^^
9/11/2017 11:11pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

If he has been to Lorretta's, then he is not eligible for the C class, period.
9/11/2017 11:22pm
The youth C Class is an animal all its own. U talked with DC on our show and he is actively looking at ways to fix the, dns-dnf 2nd motos guy.
The big problem here is with our life long C class Vet riders. They don't hit AMA races, so they never get RPV points. So they just keep riding C. So we end up with 20 Vet C, 4 Vet B and 2 Vet A riders. I'm going to talk with all of our race promoters this month and see if they would do an RPV style system to fix this and spread out the riders. My take a year or two, but worth it.
Pirate421
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1826
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7/26/2015
Location
MA US
9/12/2017 2:40am
I can't wait until next year I turn 30 so I can make a run at 30b. in NE you need so many points to move up to B. Last time I raced I rode 250 and 450c. We had a staggered start with the b class, b left about 15-20 seconds before c gate dropped and the kid who won C finished 4th in the b class after a 20 sec deficit! I'm not racing much this year because of work and family but everytime I go ride I ride in A/B practice where I can hold my own but because of the pointing up rule I won't be getting any top 3s anytime soon! I believe the vet classes let you self promote so that's my year to get back into racing. I feel more comfortable riding with B class for obvious safety reasons, for sure faster, but 100x less sketchy. Wish more promoters ran +25 classes, sometimes I think I accidentally signed up for youth with all the Y's on the number plates passing me.
cvm
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Monrovia, MD US
9/12/2017 2:49am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2017 2:54am
c0ncEpT wrote:
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class. There are the C riders that...
There are really fast C riders that are at the top of the class but not quite ready for B-class.

There are the C riders that are just in C-class to chase a championship at Lorettas and other national caliber races. These guys can win a local B-class race by 15 seconds on any given day.

Its the 2nd group of guys that people complain about. The rules are set up for these guy to stay in C-class as well.

We have a kid in D14 that is stupid fast and goes to Lorettas every year in C-Class. He will show up to local races and start the 1st moto, DNF, and then DNS the 2nd moto and go home just to lower his rider score so he doesn't point out of C-class to make another run at Lorettas the next year.

billyp330 wrote:
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos...
the fact that he nvr actually made it to lorettas proves he belongs in C class IMO. I don't agree with purposely DNF and DNSing motos to keep from pointing out but if he cant qualify for LL's in C class then he definitely doesn't belong in B class
TSCHAM101 wrote:
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us...
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us unless you ride support in a vet club.. i just turned 25, i own my own home, have a career. The C-class talent is full of kids trying to slam each other in hopes of making it pro, which some might, but get out of the C class.

I like the TLD family, but lets be real. Max lee is not a C - class rider. Thats the kind of talent i would have to line up with on a C class race, and if i race D i look like the sand bagger because i hit all the jumps and i can run expert with the OTHG and Old timers.. There is not a place for people like me, and most of the people on this forum.

there should be a hobbyist class,for people that have a full time job, home and a family class. i cant afford to be slammed by a 16yr old kid, which happens a lot down here.
Some may say the hobbyist class is called vintage, or post vintage if you want some technology & susp travel.

And I'm 100% w/ you & your mort. I wanna get up on Mon. & go to work, & not be forced to do a triple that 18 yr old experts are doin on 450's.

Yes I'm older than dirt. Retired 250A in 1986. Now its called a mid life crisis by the yahoos.
I just wanna get my rox off Smile
9/12/2017 1:54pm
TSCHAM101 wrote:
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us...
the problem with not making it to lorettas is all the same guys do the same shit.. So-cal racing is a joke for most of us unless you ride support in a vet club.. i just turned 25, i own my own home, have a career. The C-class talent is full of kids trying to slam each other in hopes of making it pro, which some might, but get out of the C class.

I like the TLD family, but lets be real. Max lee is not a C - class rider. Thats the kind of talent i would have to line up with on a C class race, and if i race D i look like the sand bagger because i hit all the jumps and i can run expert with the OTHG and Old timers.. There is not a place for people like me, and most of the people on this forum.

there should be a hobbyist class,for people that have a full time job, home and a family class. i cant afford to be slammed by a 16yr old kid, which happens a lot down here.
bama205
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1519
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Location
Williamson County, TN US
9/12/2017 7:19pm
Maybe you're slower than you think.
wfo4ever
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789
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8/3/2014
Location
NC US
9/12/2017 7:53pm
Always sign up for A class and your C class problem is solved.
9/12/2017 8:19pm
bvm111 wrote:
I am planning on racing for the first time in 18 years in a few weeks! I used to be a solid intermediate and could play...
I am planning on racing for the first time in 18 years in a few weeks! I used to be a solid intermediate and could play with the local pros for a few laps back then. I am considering running 40+ novice but can't seem to bring myself to do it even though I will totally get smoked in the Intermediate class. I would rather get last in the Intermediate class than even mid pack Novice class... maybe it's a generational thing?
Maybe it works differently in the states than it does up here in Canada, but usually it seems you can race a class up in the vet classes than you would against the kids. C class (junior) up here is generally pretty fast at the front, but Vet Junior usually isn't. You would think the racing should be more fun and safer in the vet class, but recently I have run into problems with egos or other issues in vet. I think the thing to do is, if you ever run into someone that is trying to sandbag in any class, show your disrespect to them on the track. Also, if anyone is riding like a dick in Vet classes, we are old enough to take it to the pits or the parking lot without someone crying about it, right? (I know those last two sound a bit hypocritical and contradictory, but take them in a vacuum with a grain of salt.)
9/13/2017 11:34am
Here in Northeast Texas, we have a lot of VERY fast Vet riders. The top guys in Vet A and B can run with the kids.
OR Racer46
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1361
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Eagle Point, OR US
9/13/2017 12:08pm
I guess we could always sign up for the woman's class If anyone says anything just tell them you are starting your process .

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