MXoN Drama - A possible fix?

agn5009
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8/3/2017 2:48pm
early wrote:
Not a good move. Make it the first weekend in september. Adjust the gp schedule to fit.
philG wrote:
No.
Why the hell should they adjust the GP schedule to fit the AMA? So affect the series that the majority of the riders ride in? Change everything they're accustomed to do because 1 rider is whining enough about the schedule? Man.... unbelievable.

Phil, I didn't mean to quote your "No" response.
agn5009
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8/3/2017 2:55pm
RG1 wrote:
The worst thing about Matthes keeping going on about this is that he doesn't even have his facts straight. He says in the article that the...
The worst thing about Matthes keeping going on about this is that he doesn't even have his facts straight. He says in the article that the race keeps getting pushed further back in the schedule by Youthstream, when that simply isn't true, and he knows it isn't true, because many people have bought it to his attention. He can say that in the 90's it was mid September, but when YS inherited this race in '04 it was in the late September slot it holds now, and it hasn't changed since. When he, JT$ and Top Jimmy were discussing this on the Pulp show this week, they didn't even know when the GP's ended. They were saying that they finished in the first week of September, and that they were wasting a month before MXdN. In actual fact, the MXGP series finishes on Sept 17th in France. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you're going to keep going on about what needs to happen to fix this race (after going last year and seeing an event where anyone of 3 teams could've won with 3 laps to go, I left feeling pretty confident that this race didn't need fixing, but anyway), at least know your facts.

The fact that he refused to acknowledge the timing of the Monster Cup as moronic and a key problem in all this still blows my mind also
lostboy819 wrote:
Well one thing you can say about Matthes is that he never lets facts get in the way of his opinion, kind of like word nerd...
Well one thing you can say about Matthes is that he never lets facts get in the way of his opinion, kind of like word nerd who makes up his own facts. Blush Pinch
This is why I don't follow or listen to Matthes. He twists and distorts everything to fit his own agenda. He has no middle ground, everything he says is 100% right all the time.
500guy
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8/3/2017 3:07pm
agn5009 wrote:
This is why I don't follow or listen to Matthes. He twists and distorts everything to fit his own agenda. He has no middle ground, everything...
This is why I don't follow or listen to Matthes. He twists and distorts everything to fit his own agenda. He has no middle ground, everything he says is 100% right all the time.
No, He say's what He believes and if He didn't people would be all over him like they do Geoff for being a sell out.

Your just ticked because you don't like the message.
kkawboy14
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8/3/2017 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2017 3:18pm
Simple fix, all the euros come over and qualify for one of the nationals. Then have a race within a race!

The Nationals guys can't complain because they had to qualify for the race, the Euros can't complain because they had to qualify........anyone with a license could come qualify anyway so nobody could really complain.

The Shop

philG
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8/3/2017 3:28pm
early wrote:
Not a good move. Make it the first weekend in september. Adjust the gp schedule to fit.
philG wrote:
No.
This is one reason why I think a shared break in the schedule makes sense. It's a compromise and neither side has to admit defeat and...
This is one reason why I think a shared break in the schedule makes sense. It's a compromise and neither side has to admit defeat and change their schedule just to accommodate the other.
Your schedule is fucked with because of foitball... so we have to change our schedule to fit in with a sport nobody here cares about.... now you have NBC Gold wtf does it mstter.
Yep
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8/3/2017 3:31pm
If a nation doesn't send it's 3 best riders it should not host a MXoN in the future?
TDeath21
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8/3/2017 3:52pm
How about the US series does this:

Keep SX the same. Maybe throw in one more off week. But I think it's fine. Once SX concludes, take a longer break between SX and MX. At least three weeks.

What does this do?

1. Pushes the conclusion of the season closer to the MXoN, allowing US based riders to still be in MX mode when the MXoN rolls around.
2. Allows more time for MX testing, decreasing those all too common injuries while MX testing during SX season.
3. Allows the riders a sort of "halftime" break in the middle of the season to rest and recover, again decreasing injuries and allowing a healthier field to enter MX. How often do we see riders miss the first few races due to an injury in SX?
4. Allows for US riders to race a GP to get into MX mode if they'd like. Long shot I know. But remember those Glen Helen USGPs were the only week off between MX and SX. Which is a main reason US rider turnout was low.
5. Allows for the US fan base to get more involved in the GP MX scene. Many GP fans follow the AMA series closely, but the opposite isn't true as often. A month off between MX and SX may give US fans a reason to start watching more GP races. Especially if number 4 becomes true.

I know this has its own problems. For instance, Red Bud always being on 4th of July weekend now becomes one of the first rounds of the series. Other tracks may have to accommodate their own schedule if they want to keep the AMA National there. But overall, I think this would be a great solution for everyone.

Thoughts?
8/3/2017 3:58pm
philG wrote:
Your schedule is fucked with because of foitball... so we have to change our schedule to fit in with a sport nobody here cares about.... now...
Your schedule is fucked with because of foitball... so we have to change our schedule to fit in with a sport nobody here cares about.... now you have NBC Gold wtf does it mstter.
You seem rather upset. Are you saying that the FIM shouldn't have to change one single thing about their schedule and the U.S. team should just have to deal with it?

I am not saying the FIM has to move the race up in September simply to accommodate the Americans, either. That's why I think a mid-season break is fair to both sides. I just want one race per year where the best American riders go head-to-head with the best from around the world.
kkawboy14
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8/3/2017 3:59pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Simple fix, all the euros come over and qualify for one of the nationals. Then have a race within a race! The Nationals guys can't complain...
Simple fix, all the euros come over and qualify for one of the nationals. Then have a race within a race!

The Nationals guys can't complain because they had to qualify for the race, the Euros can't complain because they had to qualify........anyone with a license could come qualify anyway so nobody could really complain.
What this guy said is easier!
early
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8/3/2017 4:18pm
TDeath21 wrote:
How about the US series does this: Keep SX the same. Maybe throw in one more off week. But I think it's fine. Once SX concludes...
How about the US series does this:

Keep SX the same. Maybe throw in one more off week. But I think it's fine. Once SX concludes, take a longer break between SX and MX. At least three weeks.

What does this do?

1. Pushes the conclusion of the season closer to the MXoN, allowing US based riders to still be in MX mode when the MXoN rolls around.
2. Allows more time for MX testing, decreasing those all too common injuries while MX testing during SX season.
3. Allows the riders a sort of "halftime" break in the middle of the season to rest and recover, again decreasing injuries and allowing a healthier field to enter MX. How often do we see riders miss the first few races due to an injury in SX?
4. Allows for US riders to race a GP to get into MX mode if they'd like. Long shot I know. But remember those Glen Helen USGPs were the only week off between MX and SX. Which is a main reason US rider turnout was low.
5. Allows for the US fan base to get more involved in the GP MX scene. Many GP fans follow the AMA series closely, but the opposite isn't true as often. A month off between MX and SX may give US fans a reason to start watching more GP races. Especially if number 4 becomes true.

I know this has its own problems. For instance, Red Bud always being on 4th of July weekend now becomes one of the first rounds of the series. Other tracks may have to accommodate their own schedule if they want to keep the AMA National there. But overall, I think this would be a great solution for everyone.

Thoughts?
A month without races between SX and MX doesnt mean a month break for the riders. As Matthes stated with SX starting in the beginning of January teams basically need to have their parts ordered by October, that timeline doesnt change no matter when the outdoors end.
DonM
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Fantasy
8/3/2017 6:12pm
philG wrote:
No.
This is one reason why I think a shared break in the schedule makes sense. It's a compromise and neither side has to admit defeat and...
This is one reason why I think a shared break in the schedule makes sense. It's a compromise and neither side has to admit defeat and change their schedule just to accommodate the other.
philG wrote:
Your schedule is fucked with because of foitball... so we have to change our schedule to fit in with a sport nobody here cares about.... now...
Your schedule is fucked with because of foitball... so we have to change our schedule to fit in with a sport nobody here cares about.... now you have NBC Gold wtf does it mstter.
If you want to see the best American riders at the MXDN then the schedule needs to be changed...it's really pretty simple...or you can just be stubborn and bitch about about the US riders, the US schedule and other US sports that you don't care about...as it is right now because of the schedule there are many (not all) US riders that will not attend because they are paid to win in the US at the races that they are contracted to race.
Don't get me wrong I love the MXDN and hate to see it come to this and hate to see the sponsors and manufacturers be put into a position where they have to choose but that is where we are at.
SCR
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8/3/2017 7:55pm
Make the MEC first race of supercross series and get rid of one of the Anaheim races. Then there is no races from Sept to jan. MEC could be like DAYTONA for nascar. Series starts with biggest race of the year. That would leave from may thru the end of the end of the year for real motocross races.
vandy509
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8/4/2017 11:11am
I'll throw my two cents into the ring - this goes along with what ayearinmx had to say earlier in the thread, and something I don't see mentioned anywhere in here. The US outdoor series use to run longer into September, usually ending the weekend after Labor Day. Now, the series ends the weekend before Labor Day - that's the major cause of the large gap between the end of our series and the MXoN. Take a look at this:



So, since 2012 the date for the MXoN hasn't really changed - it's been the last weekend in September. The real change has come from the US outdoor schedule, which now ends 2 weeks earlier than it used to.


GangGreen
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8/4/2017 11:56am
TXDirt wrote:
If you are in the middle of a championship hunt are you going to risk injury by racing the MXDN in the middle of your season...
If you are in the middle of a championship hunt are you going to risk injury by racing the MXDN in the middle of your season?

I'm going to say no.


Mit12
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8/4/2017 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2017 12:13pm
Until the MXoN means anything to the teams and manufactures we will have this problem. If it is not in the riders contract to attend they can say no. As much as I would like Tomac, Anderson and Osborne to represent the USA I don't see it happening until it is mandatory.
8/4/2017 12:28pm
Mit12 wrote:
Until the MXoN means anything to the teams and manufactures we will have this problem. If it is not in the riders contract to attend they...
Until the MXoN means anything to the teams and manufactures we will have this problem. If it is not in the riders contract to attend they can say no. As much as I would like Tomac, Anderson and Osborne to represent the USA I don't see it happening until it is mandatory.
"Until it is mandatory." You're making it sound as though the teams can dictate that to the riders. When Tomac's Honda contract ran out, he had lotsa leverage, and he had more than one team interested. They're not gonna dictate much of anything to him. I'm actually surprised he's obligated (via Monster) to run in the USGP.

As if the American HRC team was gonna tell Roczen that it was mandatory that he ride in the MXoN ... for Germany.
500guy
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8/4/2017 3:47pm
Mit12 wrote:
Until the MXoN means anything to the teams and manufactures we will have this problem. If it is not in the riders contract to attend they...
Until the MXoN means anything to the teams and manufactures we will have this problem. If it is not in the riders contract to attend they can say no. As much as I would like Tomac, Anderson and Osborne to represent the USA I don't see it happening until it is mandatory.
"Until it is mandatory." You're making it sound as though the teams can dictate that to the riders. When Tomac's Honda contract ran out, he had...
"Until it is mandatory." You're making it sound as though the teams can dictate that to the riders. When Tomac's Honda contract ran out, he had lotsa leverage, and he had more than one team interested. They're not gonna dictate much of anything to him. I'm actually surprised he's obligated (via Monster) to run in the USGP.

As if the American HRC team was gonna tell Roczen that it was mandatory that he ride in the MXoN ... for Germany.
The contracts are very specific about what they expect as far as what races.

if it was in the Contract and they all signed it , there would be no issue. but like stated they don't really care.
wreckitrandy
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8/4/2017 8:21pm
SCR wrote:
Make the MEC first race of supercross series and get rid of one of the Anaheim races. Then there is no races from Sept to jan...
Make the MEC first race of supercross series and get rid of one of the Anaheim races. Then there is no races from Sept to jan. MEC could be like DAYTONA for nascar. Series starts with biggest race of the year. That would leave from may thru the end of the end of the year for real motocross races.
I like this ^^ idea. What's more likely to happen though is 4 or 5 more stoopie crosses get added to the already too long series and probably even less interest in the desNations by our guys.
jamma10
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8/7/2017 6:51am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 7:12am
Why does the MXGP series have such a long breaks during the months of June and July?

A San Marino GP was scheduled for the 9th of July this summer but it got cancelled. Typically there are two or three GPs a month.

The problem for Youthstreams is that the schedule changes quite a bit year after year and new venues are coming and going all the time. Organising 17/18/19/20 GPs around the world must be quite dificult a logistically, especially when some of them rely on speculative government funding or dodgy promoters that sometimes withdraw at late notice. MXSports have long and established relationships with most of the tracks on the Outdoor schedule, they have less races and a more compact timeframe of four months to work to.

That said I definitely agree they need to schedule the MXdN for early/mid September.
ayearinmx
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8/7/2017 7:36am
Argentina and Mexico are close to each other???!?!?!?

Seriously, armchair logistics are great on paper..... but in the real world, things aren't quite so easy.

Bikes need to be shipped, visas need to be arranged... there is a reason Russia has a break before and after.

There is also the Junior World Championship which isn't included in your list, but is still run by Youthstream. And then, just as importantly..... you have the British, French, Belgian, German, Dutch, Italian national championships which all need to fit into the calendar and can't be all run on top of each other on the same weekend.
8/7/2017 7:37am
SCR wrote:
Make the MEC first race of supercross series and get rid of one of the Anaheim races. Then there is no races from Sept to jan...
Make the MEC first race of supercross series and get rid of one of the Anaheim races. Then there is no races from Sept to jan. MEC could be like DAYTONA for nascar. Series starts with biggest race of the year. That would leave from may thru the end of the end of the year for real motocross races.
Hm? So what your saying is no testing for supercross?

Makes since to me!

8/7/2017 7:41am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Simple fix, all the euros come over and qualify for one of the nationals. Then have a race within a race! The Nationals guys can't complain...
Simple fix, all the euros come over and qualify for one of the nationals. Then have a race within a race!

The Nationals guys can't complain because they had to qualify for the race, the Euros can't complain because they had to qualify........anyone with a license could come qualify anyway so nobody could really complain.
This is exactly what a lot of pro's have been saying for a very long time!

Would be a very simple and much easier race to make and we would get to see the races a lot of us would want to see. It could be a big deal with big prize money for this one event. A championship within a championship.
8/7/2017 7:42am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 7:44am
agn5009 wrote:
Such bull shit. They've had the MXDN around the same time for the last 15 years. I'm tired of people making these stupid excuses. The majority...
Such bull shit. They've had the MXDN around the same time for the last 15 years. I'm tired of people making these stupid excuses. The majority of US riders would LOVE to have the opportunity to race for their nation. It's Tomac who doesn't want to and it's placing the rest of the riders into his bull shit bracket.

I'm tired of everyone acting like there's a problem with the MXDN. The majority of the rest of the world's best race it with pride. It's a very small percentage who don't want to race it.
Coming from the guy on the couch~!
early
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8/7/2017 7:53am
ayearinmx wrote:
Argentina and Mexico are close to each other???!?!?!? Seriously, armchair logistics are great on paper..... but in the real world, things aren't quite so easy. Bikes...
Argentina and Mexico are close to each other???!?!?!?

Seriously, armchair logistics are great on paper..... but in the real world, things aren't quite so easy.

Bikes need to be shipped, visas need to be arranged... there is a reason Russia has a break before and after.

There is also the Junior World Championship which isn't included in your list, but is still run by Youthstream. And then, just as importantly..... you have the British, French, Belgian, German, Dutch, Italian national championships which all need to fit into the calendar and can't be all run on top of each other on the same weekend.
"And then, just as importantly..... you have the British, French, Belgian, German, Dutch, Italian national championships which all need to fit into the calendar and can't be all run on top of each other on the same weekend."

Sorry but this doesnt make any sense to me. Luongos vision of his series is that it becomes similar to motogp. Very professional with the teams running the show for the riders, he is squeezing out privateers for this reason. Im not going to argue that strategy. The idea that MXGP riders NEED to go ride national series is bullshit imo. Thise national series should be a stepping stone to the EMX series then the mxgp series not designated practice days for the best in the world. You dont see Marc Marquez running the CEV series on his off weekends.
TDeath21
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8/7/2017 7:57am
ayearinmx wrote:
Argentina and Mexico are close to each other???!?!?!? Seriously, armchair logistics are great on paper..... but in the real world, things aren't quite so easy. Bikes...
Argentina and Mexico are close to each other???!?!?!?

Seriously, armchair logistics are great on paper..... but in the real world, things aren't quite so easy.

Bikes need to be shipped, visas need to be arranged... there is a reason Russia has a break before and after.

There is also the Junior World Championship which isn't included in your list, but is still run by Youthstream. And then, just as importantly..... you have the British, French, Belgian, German, Dutch, Italian national championships which all need to fit into the calendar and can't be all run on top of each other on the same weekend.
In the grand scheme of things, yes. They're both in the same time zone and they're both fly away races. The time zone is a big part of it. Traveling north and south is much easier than east to west. Having an extra week off between those two would complicate travel I'd think. Do they come home during that time or stay over in the Americas?
8/7/2017 9:14am
End the GP season a week or two earlier. End the AMA nationals a week or two later. Both parts make minor changes to their schedules rather than one side making a major change. Everyone is happy. How hard can it be?
ayearinmx
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8/7/2017 9:27am
TDeath21 wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, yes. They're both in the same time zone and they're both fly away races. The time zone is a big...
In the grand scheme of things, yes. They're both in the same time zone and they're both fly away races. The time zone is a big part of it. Traveling north and south is much easier than east to west. Having an extra week off between those two would complicate travel I'd think. Do they come home during that time or stay over in the Americas?
ok, so you have obviously never had to fly from Bariloche to Leon.... there aren't any direct flights, in fact, i don't think even think you can do it in 1-stop. It's usually Bariloche-Buenos Aires-USA-Leon.... and there is usually complications getting out of Bariloche because it's a small airport. Plus you have the extra PITA due to landing in the US. You are talking about over 24hrs of travelling, which certainly is not a walk in the park

either way, it's not "easy" as you suggest.... and the fact that they did them back to back in 2016 and then put a week in between in 2017 tells me that the people making the schedule know what they are talking about

and it's why in 2018 the preliminary schedule has the USA and Mexico back to back, and not Argentina/Mexico
8/7/2017 9:48am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 12:18pm
Why does Redbull or Rockstar not take advantage of Monster's USGP/Cup events interfering and push for their riders to attend? It makes Rockstar look pro-USA, and if they do well, it makes them look awesome. #RockstarEnergy #Redbull etc. etc.
struth
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8/7/2017 12:42pm
Or just have bigger break between end of AMA sx n start of AMA mx season.

Give the teams so more time to test for outdoors...
early
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8/7/2017 12:57pm
struth wrote:
Or just have bigger break between end of AMA sx n start of AMA mx season.

Give the teams so more time to test for outdoors...
The teams asked for a longer break in the fall, not a longer break between SX and MX because the teams and the riders can actually take time off then without another series looming in a few weeks. What is so hard about that to understand?

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