Attention 15+ KX450F owners

RJMX834
Posts
378
Joined
1/17/2014
Location
Marietta, OH, USA
7/11/2017 6:33pm
JRT812 wrote:
I read on here A kits are nice and the traxx shock really tracks while riding on any condition track. Good luck with the upgrades and...
I read on here A kits are nice and the traxx shock really tracks while riding on any condition track.

Good luck with the upgrades and have only used local people in the past.
Id love an A kit, but that's out of my price range. But I do understand, get what you pay for. But for all the riding I do and at my speed, a revalve should be efficient enough.
Fog 25
Posts
181
Joined
6/25/2016
Location
Castaic, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/11/2017 6:35pm
RJMX834 wrote:
Sending my suspension tomorrow out to FC for a service and a revalve. (have a fork seal pouring at 16.5 hrs) not particularly happy about that...
Sending my suspension tomorrow out to FC for a service and a revalve. (have a fork seal pouring at 16.5 hrs) not particularly happy about that but thrilled with the rest of the bike. My question is what are you guys doing and how did you like the results? Sticking with the air forks and revalving or doing the spring conversion? I don't hate the air forks but I'm still looking for a more planted, plush feel. I'm a mid pack B rider, 6'2 165-170 lbs. Any opinions are welcomed, thanks!

My 16 suspension done by Noleen set up for a fat old guy works fantastic. One thing I would do is run some skins to save the seals. They help prevent pits in the tubes, money well spent.
RJMX834
Posts
378
Joined
1/17/2014
Location
Marietta, OH, USA
7/11/2017 6:37pm
NJKawi913 wrote:
-I had RG3 do my suspension on my 15. We set it up the equal pressure in the inner chamber and balance, then 0 the outer...
-I had RG3 do my suspension on my 15. We set it up the equal pressure in the inner chamber and balance, then 0 the outer chamber. This makes it as close to a spring fork feel in my opinion. Also filled the forks with nitrogen to eliiminate pressure changed throughout the tempreautres.

- I am also 6'3" 190lbs, a lot of other taller guys complain it want to push through the corner and is hard to get into ruts. I dropped the forks down 1-2cm and this made a worlds differnce for conrnering.

- outside of that i have a yoshi slip-on cause the stock exahust sounds horendous, gripper seat cover, arc levers, and some other comfort item. all in all these bikes are very good in my opnion, you just need to get out there and test out what works best for your style (which should be done with any new bike anyway). Don't be afraid to try out some different setting, rather than spending big bucks on trick parts.


I do like the nitrogen idea. after talking to A couple places today along with everyones recommendations here I'm gonna stick with air. I'm not much for trick parts either. If I do, they serve a purpose. Rad hose kit, eliminate the Y coupler. TM chain guide kit, stock ones junk. Pro taper 90 degree levers, so I don't keep buying levers. DID chain with aftermarket sprockets. So yeah, most my stuff has a purpose also haha.
Justin345
Posts
643
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Southern MD, MD, USA
7/11/2017 7:21pm
Scoop up a used A kit for $2,500, be unbelievably happy with the bike and how ridiculously good the suspension is. Then in a few years, sell it for $2,500 when you get a new bike. You'll be out the cost of a revalve, same as if you get your stock stuff revalved. If you can swing the cost, it's 100% worth it to buy a used set of kit suspension. I just sold my 2015 KX450F and Showa spring kit suspension and thebike was essentially cheating. There's a set in bazaar right now for $2,500 I believe.

The Shop

Manco
Posts
318
Joined
6/19/2014
Location
Denver, CO, USA
7/11/2017 9:17pm
Manco wrote:
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike...
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike then what was sold in late 1980s. Its totally backwards though. Mid 90s was the peak of MX technology. Everything since has been a downhill slide into recreation grade motorcycles with issues no one wants to deal with. No wonder off road motorcycling is a dying sport.
Cygnus wrote:
Davey Newell?
Nah. But I'll tell him the story of this thread the next time I see him.



Sargent Rock
Posts
302
Joined
4/6/2012
Location
Liberty Lake, WA, USA
7/11/2017 9:49pm
I personally didn't have a lot of luck with my 15 ' , I poured a ton of money into triple clamps , Factory connection, shock link. FMF exhaust . The motor was fantastic and the power band . Damn forks with triple air adjustments, pain in ass. Notice they are being killed off.
Titan1
Posts
9417
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
7/11/2017 10:14pm
I personally didn't have a lot of luck with my 15 ' , I poured a ton of money into triple clamps , Factory connection, shock...
I personally didn't have a lot of luck with my 15 ' , I poured a ton of money into triple clamps , Factory connection, shock link. FMF exhaust . The motor was fantastic and the power band . Damn forks with triple air adjustments, pain in ass. Notice they are being killed off.
Bro...the air replaces the spring. Figure out what pressure (spring rate) works for your weight (and there is one pressure setting that works for your weight) and run it. Changing the air pressures all the time makes as much sense as changing spring rates all the time (makes no sense at all).
SVT-Cobra
Posts
132
Joined
3/25/2016
Location
USA
7/11/2017 10:30pm
Hated the air forks at first, went to the RT spring conversion and had some long drawn it issues for about 8 months, decided I was going to switch back. I have been jiving with the air forks ever since the switch back. I have no clue what's changed.
7/12/2017 2:47am
Manco wrote:
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike...
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike then what was sold in late 1980s. Its totally backwards though. Mid 90s was the peak of MX technology. Everything since has been a downhill slide into recreation grade motorcycles with issues no one wants to deal with. No wonder off road motorcycling is a dying sport.
kkawboy14 wrote:
I rode a kx500 6 months ago, that thing was a boat anchor compared to my kx450
Manco wrote:
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie. 2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet...
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie.

2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet weight

1987 KX500 = 220lbs dry + fuel + add ons = 230-240lbs proven weight wet for the past 30 years.

Welp that settles it. The KX450 would would definitely have more boat holding power over a KX500. May as well bring up the fact that in a HP contest the KX450 also looses. How sad. Good thing for Kawi sales the AMA was bribed into banning big bore two strokes from racing, pro riders are paid to ride what they ride and magazines are paid to write favorable reviews of modern MX boat anchors.




blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a current kx 450 !!. and given the choice all pros would race a kx 500 over a current 450 ? put thier paycheck on the line with lap times and see how much pre mix gets used . zero.
RJMX834
Posts
378
Joined
1/17/2014
Location
Marietta, OH, USA
7/12/2017 5:02am
SVT-Cobra wrote:
Hated the air forks at first, went to the RT spring conversion and had some long drawn it issues for about 8 months, decided I was...
Hated the air forks at first, went to the RT spring conversion and had some long drawn it issues for about 8 months, decided I was going to switch back. I have been jiving with the air forks ever since the switch back. I have no clue what's changed.
interesting. seems as if almost non of you are running the springs. sounds like I'll stick with air and revalve
m1ke2001
Posts
101
Joined
3/24/2017
Location
Odenton, MD, USA
7/12/2017 6:37am
Manco wrote:
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike...
Modern KX450s are alright. A KX500 will walk all over a KX450 though. You'd think 30 years of technological advancement would lead to a better bike then what was sold in late 1980s. Its totally backwards though. Mid 90s was the peak of MX technology. Everything since has been a downhill slide into recreation grade motorcycles with issues no one wants to deal with. No wonder off road motorcycling is a dying sport.
I dont think thats true..
Manco
Posts
318
Joined
6/19/2014
Location
Denver, CO, USA
7/12/2017 6:38am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2017 7:16am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I rode a kx500 6 months ago, that thing was a boat anchor compared to my kx450
Manco wrote:
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie. 2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet...
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie.

2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet weight

1987 KX500 = 220lbs dry + fuel + add ons = 230-240lbs proven weight wet for the past 30 years.

Welp that settles it. The KX450 would would definitely have more boat holding power over a KX500. May as well bring up the fact that in a HP contest the KX450 also looses. How sad. Good thing for Kawi sales the AMA was bribed into banning big bore two strokes from racing, pro riders are paid to ride what they ride and magazines are paid to write favorable reviews of modern MX boat anchors.




dirtaddict wrote:
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a...
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a current kx 450 !!. and given the choice all pros would race a kx 500 over a current 450 ? put thier paycheck on the line with lap times and see how much pre mix gets used . zero.
Nope. There is nothing wrong with KX500 suspension in the same way there is nothing wrong with OP's KX450 suspension. Doesn't matter which suspension is in question both need to be set up for a rider to function properly for them.

As to whether or not pro riders would ride a 2t 500 against a 4t 450 in a fair and level playing field with either bike being being built to modern spec of course they would choose the 2t over the 4t because the 2t would be an advantage in HP and weight. Your example is nothing like that though. Your example is would a pro rider choose 30 year old bike vs a new bike. No doubt they would choose the newer bike in that case as its a silly comparison. If your example included the hypothetical what if Japan and the AMA didn't force big bore 2ts out of production and out of racing and instead continued to evolve, develop and sell them its pretty obvious no pro rider in their right mind would choose a 4t as they would be at a disadvantage. The only reason 4t bikes currently dominate racing is because they are allowed to based on AMA rules and because Japan wants it that way because selling 4t bikes and parts is more profitable for the corporations.

Would also like to point out thinking that a 500cc 2t is only capable of 5hp more then a 450 4t is flat out ludicrous. Such a statement betrays a lack of understanding in not only engine tuning but basic engine design as well. Do the research and you'll understand soon enough cc for cc 2t is capable of creating more HP then a couple percentage points over a 4t every time.
7/12/2017 9:28am
Definitely get the SKF glide kit, or at minimum just the piston seals. The stock configuration has too much stiction, which will hurt your front end traction. The glide kit makes a significant difference. I'm surprised Showa hasn't yet adopted SKF's glide kit into their OEM configuration.

A lot of times guys make changes and swear by them without ever doing a side by side comparison, or a long time goes by where they can't precisely remember how it used to handle. I have a buddy who has a stock 15' and i've ridden mine and his back to back and the changes I've made are so much better.
yz133rider
Posts
5029
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
7/12/2017 9:32am
Justin345 wrote:
Scoop up a used A kit for $2,500, be unbelievably happy with the bike and how ridiculously good the suspension is. Then in a few years...
Scoop up a used A kit for $2,500, be unbelievably happy with the bike and how ridiculously good the suspension is. Then in a few years, sell it for $2,500 when you get a new bike. You'll be out the cost of a revalve, same as if you get your stock stuff revalved. If you can swing the cost, it's 100% worth it to buy a used set of kit suspension. I just sold my 2015 KX450F and Showa spring kit suspension and thebike was essentially cheating. There's a set in bazaar right now for $2,500 I believe.
The way you described it makes me regret giving up on the kx450. I revalved the stock stuff, and had a spring conversion. Still hated the handling and felt like a tank lol.
dmm698
Posts
955
Joined
6/24/2015
Location
USA
7/12/2017 11:46am
yz133rider wrote:
The way you described it makes me regret giving up on the kx450. I revalved the stock stuff, and had a spring conversion. Still hated the...
The way you described it makes me regret giving up on the kx450. I revalved the stock stuff, and had a spring conversion. Still hated the handling and felt like a tank lol.
Hes not kidding. I put a second hand set of 49mm a kit spring forks and the a kit shock on my 16 kx450. I had the stock shock revalved and still wasnt happy. Used set of A kit, which PC then set up for me, and the bike is unreal matched with the 21.5mm offset clamps.
mx317
Posts
5332
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
7/12/2017 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2017 1:01pm
Manco wrote:
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie. 2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet...
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie.

2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet weight

1987 KX500 = 220lbs dry + fuel + add ons = 230-240lbs proven weight wet for the past 30 years.

Welp that settles it. The KX450 would would definitely have more boat holding power over a KX500. May as well bring up the fact that in a HP contest the KX450 also looses. How sad. Good thing for Kawi sales the AMA was bribed into banning big bore two strokes from racing, pro riders are paid to ride what they ride and magazines are paid to write favorable reviews of modern MX boat anchors.




Your weights are way off. A Dirt Rider test shows the KX500 to have a weight of 234 lbs with all fluids and a dry tank. MXA weighed all the 2017 450 bikes and the KX450 weighs 231 with a dry tank. The KTM was 222 weighed the same way. These weights are real life weights, not "claimed" weights.
7/12/2017 2:58pm
Manco wrote:
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie. 2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet...
That is because you are biased and desperate to hide from the truth. Too bad for you specifications can't lie.

2015 KX450f = 247lbs claimed wet weight

1987 KX500 = 220lbs dry + fuel + add ons = 230-240lbs proven weight wet for the past 30 years.

Welp that settles it. The KX450 would would definitely have more boat holding power over a KX500. May as well bring up the fact that in a HP contest the KX450 also looses. How sad. Good thing for Kawi sales the AMA was bribed into banning big bore two strokes from racing, pro riders are paid to ride what they ride and magazines are paid to write favorable reviews of modern MX boat anchors.




dirtaddict wrote:
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a...
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a current kx 450 !!. and given the choice all pros would race a kx 500 over a current 450 ? put thier paycheck on the line with lap times and see how much pre mix gets used . zero.
Manco wrote:
Nope. There is nothing wrong with KX500 suspension in the same way there is nothing wrong with OP's KX450 suspension. Doesn't matter which suspension is in...
Nope. There is nothing wrong with KX500 suspension in the same way there is nothing wrong with OP's KX450 suspension. Doesn't matter which suspension is in question both need to be set up for a rider to function properly for them.

As to whether or not pro riders would ride a 2t 500 against a 4t 450 in a fair and level playing field with either bike being being built to modern spec of course they would choose the 2t over the 4t because the 2t would be an advantage in HP and weight. Your example is nothing like that though. Your example is would a pro rider choose 30 year old bike vs a new bike. No doubt they would choose the newer bike in that case as its a silly comparison. If your example included the hypothetical what if Japan and the AMA didn't force big bore 2ts out of production and out of racing and instead continued to evolve, develop and sell them its pretty obvious no pro rider in their right mind would choose a 4t as they would be at a disadvantage. The only reason 4t bikes currently dominate racing is because they are allowed to based on AMA rules and because Japan wants it that way because selling 4t bikes and parts is more profitable for the corporations.

Would also like to point out thinking that a 500cc 2t is only capable of 5hp more then a 450 4t is flat out ludicrous. Such a statement betrays a lack of understanding in not only engine tuning but basic engine design as well. Do the research and you'll understand soon enough cc for cc 2t is capable of creating more HP then a couple percentage points over a 4t every time.
Ok so hypothetically we had 15 years of development into a 500 2 stroke , in a modern chassis with perhaps efi , traction control i still say 450s would be the bike of choice because they are simply easier to ride and that equates to faster lap times . yes you could get 70 or more hp out of a 500 but thats getting beyond the realm of what humans can use on a motocross track.the fact is a 250 f is faster then a 500 2 stroke on todays tracks and the current crop of lights riders would lap the riders from 500 gps back in the day . ALL of them !
akmx17
Posts
2706
Joined
3/5/2007
Location
Palmer, AK, USA
7/12/2017 3:25pm
Any opinions are welcome? Ok, then... Bro, ya gotta make sure your sprocket bolts are torqued to spec. You don't want to be causing chaos and...
Any opinions are welcome? Ok, then...

Bro, ya gotta make sure your sprocket bolts are torqued to spec. You don't want to be causing chaos and carnage out there on the track.
Everyone trying to be peelout now?
Jbulz
Posts
871
Joined
3/29/2016
Location
Ithaca, NY, USA
7/12/2017 4:15pm
dirtaddict wrote:
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a...
blinded by nostalgia . so 27 pounds and 5 hp makes a poorly suspended , bad braking high inertia vibrating pile of shit better than a current kx 450 !!. and given the choice all pros would race a kx 500 over a current 450 ? put thier paycheck on the line with lap times and see how much pre mix gets used . zero.
Manco wrote:
Nope. There is nothing wrong with KX500 suspension in the same way there is nothing wrong with OP's KX450 suspension. Doesn't matter which suspension is in...
Nope. There is nothing wrong with KX500 suspension in the same way there is nothing wrong with OP's KX450 suspension. Doesn't matter which suspension is in question both need to be set up for a rider to function properly for them.

As to whether or not pro riders would ride a 2t 500 against a 4t 450 in a fair and level playing field with either bike being being built to modern spec of course they would choose the 2t over the 4t because the 2t would be an advantage in HP and weight. Your example is nothing like that though. Your example is would a pro rider choose 30 year old bike vs a new bike. No doubt they would choose the newer bike in that case as its a silly comparison. If your example included the hypothetical what if Japan and the AMA didn't force big bore 2ts out of production and out of racing and instead continued to evolve, develop and sell them its pretty obvious no pro rider in their right mind would choose a 4t as they would be at a disadvantage. The only reason 4t bikes currently dominate racing is because they are allowed to based on AMA rules and because Japan wants it that way because selling 4t bikes and parts is more profitable for the corporations.

Would also like to point out thinking that a 500cc 2t is only capable of 5hp more then a 450 4t is flat out ludicrous. Such a statement betrays a lack of understanding in not only engine tuning but basic engine design as well. Do the research and you'll understand soon enough cc for cc 2t is capable of creating more HP then a couple percentage points over a 4t every time.
dirtaddict wrote:
Ok so hypothetically we had 15 years of development into a 500 2 stroke , in a modern chassis with perhaps efi , traction control i...
Ok so hypothetically we had 15 years of development into a 500 2 stroke , in a modern chassis with perhaps efi , traction control i still say 450s would be the bike of choice because they are simply easier to ride and that equates to faster lap times . yes you could get 70 or more hp out of a 500 but thats getting beyond the realm of what humans can use on a motocross track.the fact is a 250 f is faster then a 500 2 stroke on todays tracks and the current crop of lights riders would lap the riders from 500 gps back in the day . ALL of them !
Yup. Flatter torque curve means the bike is easier to ride. And the longer time between torque pulses means traction is better.

I'm a big 2 stroke fan, but 500s died for a reason.
Manco
Posts
318
Joined
6/19/2014
Location
Denver, CO, USA
7/13/2017 8:21am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2017 9:32am
2ts didn't die. Japan just stopped making them with the exception of the YZ. Look at the European market. Its full of 2ts.

Saying 2ts lack traction is silly considering a majority of trials bikes are 2t. Arguably 4ts do offer an easier ride with the smoother torque response for recreational riders. The traction control issue on 2ts isn't an issue though for riders who develop clutch control skills including understanding that the clutch is for more then taking off and shifting gears. 500s went out of production because the average rider does not have the inclination or motivation to practice and learn to ride bikes that powerful. This is also why auto clutches and flywheel weights are popular these days. The average rider needs all the help they can get gaining traction because they barely have the skills and physical strength to handle anything beyond 25hp.

If anything 500s died because older generations like the Baby Boomers are the biggest market slice of dirt bike buyers these days. Of course that generation wants to make up excuses as to why 500s went out of production and be sure everyone else is on board with the idea. They are the riders who decided they were too weak and unskilled to handle big bore 2ts let alone spend the time to actually understand how to tune a 2t to desired spec.

This brings up the elephant in the room that no one seems to want to talk about concerning 2ts and that is engine tuning. There is this myth that 2ts can only produce tractionless higher rpm screaming HP. This simply isn't true. 2ts can be tuned for smooth power most anywhere in the rpm spectrum. Its true historically a majority of 2ts were tuned too peaky straight from the factory. That doesn't mean they can't be tuned for lower rpm HP/torque. There are plenty of 2ts that have been produced with power curves similar to 4ts including a majority of modern 2t enduros. Here is a dyno chart showing a YZ250 compared to 4ts. Note there isn't any glaring differences between the engines.



The example that a modernized KX500 would get lapped by a 250f on a track that favors the 250f means that a 250f is a faster bike is silly. Take those two bikes and put them on a track that favors the KX500 and the 250f would eat the KX500s dust all day long. The same could be said of comparing modern 250f and 450f. Just because a track can favor the 250f doesn't mean the 250f is a faster bike, its just being favored due to track design.

How a good chunk of the motorcycle community can think 2ts aren't the faster form of MX bike is great indication just how well marketing and flat out lies coming from the motorcycle industry sways not only opinions but reality for some people. The AMA banned most 2ts and crippled the few 2ts still allowed to race because 2ts are flat out faster then 4ts. 2ts had to be gotten rid of and pushed out of the public eye so 4ts could be sold. If 2ts were actually slower then the motorcycle industry would have no qualms about allowing 2t and 4t compete on a straight cc to cc basis. If they did this however 4ts would lose almost every time on the professional level simply because power to weight ratio plus clutch control with a 2t has considerable potential to beat out 4t when the same engine cc are allowed to compete against each other. There are numerous instances over the past 20 years of pros not wanting to give up 2t bikes and/or asking for 2ts to be allowed back into completion on a cc for cc basis. That alone is a good indicator of just how much potential there is for 2ts to win in modern completions if they hadn't been crippled by the AMA.

But go ahead. Post more opinions contrary to fact. Its what consumers have been trained to except. Its what the corporations want. Its what the AMA demands. I'll even help you out by leaving this video here. Its the typical video demonstrating just how poorly suspended, horrible handling and overpowered KX500s are. Its a wonder Sean even made it around the track on the pile of crap. Good thing for him no 250fs were racing this heat r-right guys?



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