Musquin pulls over

Brownstone322 4/29/2017 10:01pm
4/29/2017 10:01pm
bents wrote:
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone...
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone is focusing on the KTM side of things, but what if Tomac loses by the amount of points that he would have gained by getting past Grant?
Precisely. What was Grant/Kawasaki doing?
RbR
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RbR 4/29/2017 10:30pm
4/29/2017 10:30pm
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at winning the championship for KTM, then Ryan would have let Marvin by.
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 10:36pm
4/29/2017 10:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 10:36pm
RbR wrote:
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at...
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at winning the championship for KTM, then Ryan would have let Marvin by.
Right. It's not complicated. People just cannot digest that, as if it's amateurs at the local fairgrounds. It's just embarrassing to read the crap all over this board.
tlw109
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tlw109 4/29/2017 10:37pm
4/29/2017 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 10:38pm
RbR wrote:
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at...
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at winning the championship for KTM, then Ryan would have let Marvin by.
Exactly. Why are people shocked by this? I was wondering why Marvin waited till the last lap to let him by. KTM would have looked like idiots if Dungey would have ended up losing the title by 2 points at Vegas.

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Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/29/2017 10:43pm
4/29/2017 10:43pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 10:46pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension. F1 executes team orders all the...
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension.

F1 executes team orders all the time (all ... the ... time ...), but once Renault had a driver crash intentionally to bring out a full-course caution that would benefit the other team car, and the team manager (the notorious Flavio Briatore) was summarily banned from the sport. See the difference? Nobody said anything about running into shit.

ANY competently run team is gonna let Dungey through in that situation. ANY. Have you ever watched racing before?

aren't team tactics of any kind against AMA rules?
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 10:52pm
4/29/2017 10:52pm
Katoomey wrote:
aren't team tactics of any kind against AMA rules?
I'm not sure, to be honest, but that's all the more reason to be coy about the whole thing -- they're impossible to prove as long as no one admits to it. In the Renault F1 case, the offending driver (Bruno Senna, if I recall) later got disgruntled with the team and ratted them out.
Mr.Fuller87
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Mr.Fuller87 4/29/2017 10:54pm
4/29/2017 10:54pm
They are a team. If he did it to let Ryan get ahead by just a few points that's team work.
Zundapp125
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Zundapp125 4/30/2017 9:59am
4/30/2017 9:59am
Moiseev had a team-mate take out Falta. Falta is the true '74 World Champ. Not at all the same as Musquin pulling over or possible retaliation by KTM in Vegas as noted above, but history does show that Moiseev was on a KTM as well :-)
OW38B
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OW38B 4/30/2017 10:03am
4/30/2017 10:03am
Brownstone322 wrote:
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension. F1 executes team orders all the...
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension.

F1 executes team orders all the time (all ... the ... time ...), but once Renault had a driver crash intentionally to bring out a full-course caution that would benefit the other team car, and the team manager (the notorious Flavio Briatore) was summarily banned from the sport. See the difference? Nobody said anything about running into shit.

ANY competently run team is gonna let Dungey through in that situation. ANY. Have you ever watched racing before?

Katoomey wrote:
aren't team tactics of any kind against AMA rules?
AMA Rulebook:
Appendix A:

General Offenses and Penalties
A2.2
c. Abetting or knowingly engaging in any race in which the result is “fixed” or prearranged.
mxwells216 4/30/2017 10:04am
4/30/2017 10:04am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2017 10:08am
Tomac wins Las Vegas and Dungey finishes 5th or worse Tomac wins the championship. It's not entirely over....
JSmith
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JSmith 4/30/2017 10:06am
4/30/2017 10:06am
I don't understand why some people are angry that Marvin pulled over. Would you not do the same thing for your good buddy and teammate if you were in Marvin's situation? I most definitely would.
JSmith
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JSmith 4/30/2017 10:10am
4/30/2017 10:10am
RbR wrote:
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at...
Of course Marvin let Ryan by, duh. KTM spends $millions annually to win championships. If the situation were reversed and Marvin had the best shot at winning the championship for KTM, then Ryan would have let Marvin by.
Brownstone322 wrote:
Right. It's not complicated. People just cannot digest that, as if it's amateurs at the local fairgrounds. It's just embarrassing to read the crap all over...
Right. It's not complicated. People just cannot digest that, as if it's amateurs at the local fairgrounds. It's just embarrassing to read the crap all over this board.
Absolutely.
Hut
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Hut 4/30/2017 10:18am
4/30/2017 10:18am
Brownstone322 wrote:
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension. F1 executes team orders all the...
That's just a stupid question. The rules don't allow that, and it entails a real risk of disqualification, even suspension.

F1 executes team orders all the time (all ... the ... time ...), but once Renault had a driver crash intentionally to bring out a full-course caution that would benefit the other team car, and the team manager (the notorious Flavio Briatore) was summarily banned from the sport. See the difference? Nobody said anything about running into shit.

ANY competently run team is gonna let Dungey through in that situation. ANY. Have you ever watched racing before?

Katoomey wrote:
aren't team tactics of any kind against AMA rules?
OW38B wrote:
AMA Rulebook:
Appendix A:

General Offenses and Penalties
A2.2
c. Abetting or knowingly engaging in any race in which the result is “fixed” or prearranged.
More embarrassing how many people thinking rigging the outcome of a national race is acceptable because of corporate ownership.
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Rdubs19 4/30/2017 10:32am
4/30/2017 10:32am
JSmith wrote:
I don't understand why some people are angry that Marvin pulled over. Would you not do the same thing for your good buddy and teammate if...
I don't understand why some people are angry that Marvin pulled over. Would you not do the same thing for your good buddy and teammate if you were in Marvin's situation? I most definitely would.
No. Not in a million years. If we're talking about going from 5th to 6th place as the championship contender and teammate comes through the pack, sure thing, I wouldn't put up a big fight. That situation is understandable and I personally see no problem with it. But this wasn't 5th to 6th or 8th to 9th. This was for the win, on the last lap. It wasn't so much that Marvin gave up a spot to help a friend, it's that he lost on purpose. If you are fighting for any other position, it doesn't matter nearly as much because you've already lost anyway. But Marvin gave up a win, on the last lap. Huge difference.
Brownstone322 4/30/2017 12:15pm
4/30/2017 12:15pm
Rdubs19 wrote:
No. Not in a million years. If we're talking about going from 5th to 6th place as the championship contender and teammate comes through the pack...
No. Not in a million years. If we're talking about going from 5th to 6th place as the championship contender and teammate comes through the pack, sure thing, I wouldn't put up a big fight. That situation is understandable and I personally see no problem with it. But this wasn't 5th to 6th or 8th to 9th. This was for the win, on the last lap. It wasn't so much that Marvin gave up a spot to help a friend, it's that he lost on purpose. If you are fighting for any other position, it doesn't matter nearly as much because you've already lost anyway. But Marvin gave up a win, on the last lap. Huge difference.
You'd do what your team told you to. That factory seat is coveted, and there's always someone else fast they can put in it.
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Motoxdoc 4/30/2017 12:37pm
4/30/2017 12:37pm
bents wrote:
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone...
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone is focusing on the KTM side of things, but what if Tomac loses by the amount of points that he would have gained by getting past Grant?
Brownstone322 wrote:
Precisely. What was Grant/Kawasaki doing?
I saw it differently. What I saw was JG33 letting up and ET3 NOT being able to pass him. In fact, I would venture to say that Eli crashed BECAUSE JG33 was checking up and Eli followed him too closely through a rutted corner, made a mistake and cased the double part of a triple. JG was doing it like you're supposed to....not making it look obvious. I believe Eli's brain went into panic mode after the crash and it effected his drive through the pack. That wasn't the type of track where the harder you try, the faster you go. I also believe Eli's race AFTER his crash decreased his title chances more than the crash itself. All just my opinions!
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LoudLove 4/30/2017 12:37pm
4/30/2017 12:37pm
Hut wrote:
More embarrassing how many people thinking rigging the outcome of a national race is acceptable because of corporate ownership.
Or maybe, just maybe, Marvin acted on his own accord. Perhaps loyalty and friendship, not corporate espionage, caused the untimely bobble in the turn. We may never know, but the benevolent approach may help those struggling with the situation accept the end result. Because the end result is not going to change.
Hut
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Hut 4/30/2017 12:42pm
4/30/2017 12:42pm
Hut wrote:
More embarrassing how many people thinking rigging the outcome of a national race is acceptable because of corporate ownership.
LoudLove wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, Marvin acted on his own accord. Perhaps loyalty and friendship, not corporate espionage, caused the untimely bobble in the turn. We may...
Or maybe, just maybe, Marvin acted on his own accord. Perhaps loyalty and friendship, not corporate espionage, caused the untimely bobble in the turn. We may never know, but the benevolent approach may help those struggling with the situation accept the end result. Because the end result is not going to change.
I meant exactly what I said. I just hit quote on the wrong post.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/30/2017 12:50pm
4/30/2017 12:50pm
OW38B wrote:
AMA Rulebook:
Appendix A:

General Offenses and Penalties
A2.2
c. Abetting or knowingly engaging in any race in which the result is “fixed” or prearranged.
ok, so how can it be fixed or prearranged when the outcome of the race and rider positions are not known until the race actually happens?
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Zundapp125 4/30/2017 2:49pm
4/30/2017 2:49pm
LoudLove wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, Marvin acted on his own accord. Perhaps loyalty and friendship, not corporate espionage, caused the untimely bobble in the turn. We may...
Or maybe, just maybe, Marvin acted on his own accord. Perhaps loyalty and friendship, not corporate espionage, caused the untimely bobble in the turn. We may never know, but the benevolent approach may help those struggling with the situation accept the end result. Because the end result is not going to change.
If you were to believe DeCoster - it sounds like possibly Marvin did act on his own.

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RG1 4/30/2017 3:00pm
4/30/2017 3:00pm
OW38B wrote:
AMA Rulebook:
Appendix A:

General Offenses and Penalties
A2.2
c. Abetting or knowingly engaging in any race in which the result is “fixed” or prearranged.
That does not mean the same thing as what Musquin did
harescrambled 4/30/2017 3:20pm
4/30/2017 3:20pm
Revelations#21 wrote:
Im a life long mx rider and fan. What Marvin did disappointed me so bad for the sport I love. Its like a boxer taking the...
Im a life long mx rider and fan.
What Marvin did disappointed me so bad for the sport I love. Its like a boxer taking the fall when the FIX is in. If this is going to turn into a "tag team" sport then whats the end gonna be.
What if Kawasaki tells Grant to take out Dungey so Tomac can win?
Seriously Im sad. Didn't want my favorite sport to go political.
it's obvious you're new here...in order for Grant to take Dungey out, Grant would have to catch Dungey. How many times has that happened in Grant's entire career? Zero I believe
harescrambled 4/30/2017 3:21pm
4/30/2017 3:21pm
bents wrote:
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone...
Grant should have pulled over for Tomac as soon as he came up to him, even remotely. I thought that was poor race team management. Everyone is focusing on the KTM side of things, but what if Tomac loses by the amount of points that he would have gained by getting past Grant?
That would have been what, 1 point? Grant has to worry about his own paycheck, and it's not his fault ET3 rode like crap in NJ
F150Motocrosser 4/30/2017 7:57pm
4/30/2017 7:57pm
new Main Event Moto podcast is up... opens with Marv's podium speech followed by the Billy Madison "what you have just said, is one of the most..." Laughing classic
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Yamaknockers 4/30/2017 8:07pm
4/30/2017 8:07pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
You'd do what your team told you to. That factory seat is coveted, and there's always someone else fast they can put in it.
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what they think is right, so they do what they're told.
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bents 4/30/2017 8:15pm
4/30/2017 8:15pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
You'd do what your team told you to. That factory seat is coveted, and there's always someone else fast they can put in it.
Yamaknockers wrote:
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what...
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what they think is right, so they do what they're told.
You would huh? Give up one of 12 full factory rides worth millions of dollars, when you are out of the championship, and your teammate and team benefits from you taking a direction from your employer, who just signed you to an additional 2 year multi million dollar contract? Well congrats, you are officially better in every way than every professional, amateur, and weekend warrior who races pretty much anywhere on mother earth.
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Liquidmx 4/30/2017 8:17pm
4/30/2017 8:17pm
Marvin clearly took a long look at Frankie not once but twice on that last lap as if he was asking, "what should I do?" In my opinion Marvin pulled over on his own without specific orders to do so. Now that doesn't mean that in team meetings throughout the season they didn't discuss potential scenarios but Roger has been at this game for decades and is too smart to risk giving explicit orders to take a dive. IMHO not team orders but rather team "suggestions". Also Ryan needs to flat out beat Tomac next week to stop all this chatter. Big Tomac fan but he simply blew it.... Maybe!
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disbanded 4/30/2017 8:23pm
4/30/2017 8:23pm
Yamaknockers wrote:
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what...
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what they think is right, so they do what they're told.
You would have to actually get on a team first to tell them to fuck off. And that would be an impossibility.
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agn5009 4/30/2017 8:25pm
4/30/2017 8:25pm
JSmith wrote:
I don't understand why some people are angry that Marvin pulled over. Would you not do the same thing for your good buddy and teammate if...
I don't understand why some people are angry that Marvin pulled over. Would you not do the same thing for your good buddy and teammate if you were in Marvin's situation? I most definitely would.
Rdubs19 wrote:
No. Not in a million years. If we're talking about going from 5th to 6th place as the championship contender and teammate comes through the pack...
No. Not in a million years. If we're talking about going from 5th to 6th place as the championship contender and teammate comes through the pack, sure thing, I wouldn't put up a big fight. That situation is understandable and I personally see no problem with it. But this wasn't 5th to 6th or 8th to 9th. This was for the win, on the last lap. It wasn't so much that Marvin gave up a spot to help a friend, it's that he lost on purpose. If you are fighting for any other position, it doesn't matter nearly as much because you've already lost anyway. But Marvin gave up a win, on the last lap. Huge difference.
That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. It's so stupid that any response would have to be equally stupid.

Also, you're a shitty friend. I wouldn't even hesitate to do it for a friend. I know for a fact all of my friends would do the exact same thing. Me and my best friend were having this exact argument. Toward the end I asked him, if he and I were in Marvin and Ryan's position, would he have pulled over for me? He couldn't deny it. He said "absolutely." Case closed, end of conversation.
Yamaknockers
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Yamaknockers 4/30/2017 8:26pm
4/30/2017 8:26pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
You'd do what your team told you to. That factory seat is coveted, and there's always someone else fast they can put in it.
Yamaknockers wrote:
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what...
I would tell the team to fuck off, but I understand there's plenty of yes men out there who can't think for themselves and do what they think is right, so they do what they're told.
bents wrote:
You would huh? Give up one of 12 full factory rides worth millions of dollars, when you are out of the championship, and your teammate and...
You would huh? Give up one of 12 full factory rides worth millions of dollars, when you are out of the championship, and your teammate and team benefits from you taking a direction from your employer, who just signed you to an additional 2 year multi million dollar contract? Well congrats, you are officially better in every way than every professional, amateur, and weekend warrior who races pretty much anywhere on mother earth.
Yes I would. KTM wouldn't fire him over it. He can get a ride anywhere. Never said I was better than anyone. I do what I think is right, which seems to be a lost concept.

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