Musquin made a "Mistake"... Unbelievable

FastEddy
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FastEddy 4/29/2017 7:10pm
4/29/2017 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 7:24pm
I believe it was obviously team orders.

I clearly understand that there's a lot of money at stake there for the KTM crew..
Championship bonuses,OEM stats,making history,legendary stuff,accomplishment,rider legacy etc...
And in all reality,I cant blame them for wanting to secure the points lead when the opportunity arouse.
I believe they'd be foolish not to take advantage of it.


But on the flip side...it happening on live TV on a major network in a series that was tight sucks for the fans and maybe the sport in general. But we'll live.


stackman17
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stackman17 4/29/2017 7:13pm
4/29/2017 7:13pm
I thought it was great that Marvin passed Dungey. Here is why, he became a rabbit for Dungey to chase to insure that he is going forward as fast as possible to prevent a repeat of last week. Dungey was provided an assist in that he was chasing and knew the pace stayed intense rather than settling into a poor pace.

As far as Marvin moving over, they are both employees of KTM. KTM is in the sport to win championships and insure that they are in the best possible position to do so.
seth505
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seth505 4/29/2017 7:14pm
4/29/2017 7:14pm
mxlegend99 wrote:
Im not a Tomac fan. I was hoping Roczen would win this series and Reed is my favorite rider. Im pissed off that KTM manipulate the...
Im not a Tomac fan. I was hoping Roczen would win this series and Reed is my favorite rider.

Im pissed off that KTM manipulate the result, ruining what slim chance Tomac had at winning next week and everyone is congratulating Dungey already for literally having it handed to him.

I dont like cheating. This is worse than Reed making it hard for Dungey to get by. Reed was slammed by everyone for that. The only consistency on here is people want riders to pull over for Dungey.

seth505 wrote:
I'm reading this as you don't like Dungey. Answer this, did KTM actually ruin Tomacs chance or did he?
mxlegend99 wrote:
Tomac threw away a bunch of points. No doubt. But that doesnt change the fact they manipulated the results also. But I see no one gives...
Tomac threw away a bunch of points. No doubt.

But that doesnt change the fact they manipulated the results also. But I see no one gives a shit about cheating here so there's no point discussing it.

It just seems inconsistent for people to bag on Reed and lose respect for him for not letting Dungey by and potentially robbing fans of a battle. But for those same people to be happy Musquin pulls over and lets Dungey win, robbing fans for both this weekend and next.

The only consistency is people wanting Dungey to be let by. I think it's shit. I also think it was unnecessary as Dungey would have had enpugh points anyway.
If you think that team orders of any kind are lame then that's fine but don't call it cheating when it isn't. Reed was a lap down, not the same situation at all.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 4/29/2017 7:15pm
4/29/2017 7:15pm


Oops

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cmarona463
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cmarona463 4/29/2017 7:25pm
4/29/2017 7:25pm
My whole problem with it is the denying. If a team wants its rider to move over for its other rider, whatever. If a rider wants to move over to help another rider on his own, whatever. I think it's pretty crappy, but that's on them. But if you're gonna do that, own up to it. Say you moved to help your teammate. Don't say you "made a mistake" while trying to hide your smirk and when it was blatantly obvious. Your basically telling the fans of the sport that they're too stupid to know the truth.
NeKawBoy
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NeKawBoy 4/29/2017 7:25pm
4/29/2017 7:25pm
FastEddy wrote:
I believe it was obviously team orders. I clearly understand that there's a lot of money at stake there for the KTM crew.. Championship bonuses,OEM stats,making...
I believe it was obviously team orders.

I clearly understand that there's a lot of money at stake there for the KTM crew..
Championship bonuses,OEM stats,making history,legendary stuff,accomplishment,rider legacy etc...
And in all reality,I cant blame them for wanting to secure the points lead when the opportunity arouse.
I believe they'd be foolish not to take advantage of it.


But on the flip side...it happening on live TV on a major network in a series that was tight sucks for the fans and maybe the sport in general. But we'll live.


I do not believe there were team orders. If there was Marvin would never have passed for the lead. Also, Marvin has had plenty of opportunities to mess with Tomac and he continued to race him clean. There are plenty of riders on the KTM/Husky payroll that had countless opportunities to mess with Tomac and there have been zero racing incidents.

What I do believe is Marvin saw Tomacs position on the last lap and decided on his own to "make a mistake" and give Ryan 3 more points. If you want to fault Marvin for what he did that's your prerogative but, to say KTM was behind it is erroneous. There were countless previous opportunities that would have been much easier to hide. In the end Tomac choked in the lead all by himself...and he showed the racing world just how much pressure there is in a series of this caliber.

I tip my cap to Eli, Ryan and Marvin for their clean racing in a very memorable series...i think we'll be on the edge of our seat all summer as all 3 trade victory after victory.
F.B
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F.B 4/29/2017 7:26pm
4/29/2017 7:26pm
You would think they are smart enough to agree on a pitboard code before the race, but no...
Motocross83 4/29/2017 7:27pm
4/29/2017 7:27pm
This happens in every Motorsport, every year, with any top performing rider/driver that has teammates. To look elsewhere for a different perspective for a moment: It likely won't be necessary for a big noticeable move by Bobryshev to make things easier on Gajser in MXGPs. But at some critical crunch point, hell even long before that - he'll make damn sure he doesn't get too much in the way, that he doesn't fight Tim quite so hard, that he gives him that little extra room off the gate etc etc. The same is true of Coldenhoff and Tony. Or going back to SX in any era; Ferry and Stewart, McGrath and Henry, Carmicheal and Fonseca, Villopoto and Weimer etc. In other words it goes on ALL the time, usually quite subtly throughout the latter stages of any season, as well as blatantly if things are tight. The only time it doesn't is when teammates actively hate each other. To expect anything else is utterly unrealistic.
FastEddy
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FastEddy 4/29/2017 7:34pm
4/29/2017 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 7:47pm
NeKawBoy wrote:
I do not believe there were team orders. If there was Marvin would never have passed for the lead. Also, Marvin has had plenty of opportunities...
I do not believe there were team orders. If there was Marvin would never have passed for the lead. Also, Marvin has had plenty of opportunities to mess with Tomac and he continued to race him clean. There are plenty of riders on the KTM/Husky payroll that had countless opportunities to mess with Tomac and there have been zero racing incidents.

What I do believe is Marvin saw Tomacs position on the last lap and decided on his own to "make a mistake" and give Ryan 3 more points. If you want to fault Marvin for what he did that's your prerogative but, to say KTM was behind it is erroneous. There were countless previous opportunities that would have been much easier to hide. In the end Tomac choked in the lead all by himself...and he showed the racing world just how much pressure there is in a series of this caliber.

I tip my cap to Eli, Ryan and Marvin for their clean racing in a very memorable series...i think we'll be on the edge of our seat all summer as all 3 trade victory after victory.
"What I do believe is Marvin saw Tomacs position on the last lap and decided on his own to "make a mistake" and give Ryan 3 more points."

That's an interesting way to look at it.
But the reason I don't look at it like that is because ,why would Marvin give up a race win bonus and a win in general without being compensated for it from the team?
Is he that nice of a guy (maybe lol)? Smile
I think its more believable to me that with team orders,he'd be compensated in a generous way by the Team/OEM for letting Ryan by,when he clearly could've won.

As for him jumping to the lead and setting a pace - that could've helped Ryan...who knows,had Marv had to block for him or get the lappers out of the way(blue flags well out before Dung got to them) - so there was no mishap with Dungey and a lapper...The possibilities are endless in this sport.
Marv could've even struck an agreement with the team before hand on being compensated had he clearly had the lead and Dungey was in second. I could go on & on...but I'm sure you get the point.

imoto31
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imoto31 4/29/2017 7:34pm
4/29/2017 7:34pm
i'm going to get blasted by the tomac fan boys but grant was going to do the same thing for eli... he was looking back and checking up the whole time tomac was behind him and he still couldn't get by!!! team orders?
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wfo4ever 4/29/2017 7:37pm
4/29/2017 7:37pm
Dungey said it best "It's just a dirt bike race". I think Dungey was not telling the truth on that statement. Team Orders suck for the racing fans and the sport.
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 7:40pm
4/29/2017 7:40pm
mc795 wrote:
*Cough Cough* Team orders.
And this is s'posed to be insightful?
THEOUTSIDER
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THEOUTSIDER 4/29/2017 7:41pm
4/29/2017 7:41pm
By passing Ryan Marvin was actually helping him. More like a "Come on follow me bro (the rabbit) and quit thinkin so much, and here's a few lines too." Then yes, he let him by. I would do the same for my team. But I would expect the team to pay me my win bonus.
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jreed530 4/29/2017 7:44pm
4/29/2017 7:44pm


Honda11
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Honda11 4/29/2017 7:58pm
4/29/2017 7:58pm
moto282 wrote:
Lost a lot of respect for KTM factory racing for that move. Let the guys race. MX is not a team sport. That was embarrassing.
Except for the fact that it is a team sport, since they are both on the same team. Its still better for their team to win a championship than to have kawi win the championship.
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:05pm
4/29/2017 8:05pm
moto282 wrote:
Lost a lot of respect for KTM factory racing for that move. Let the guys race. MX is not a team sport. That was embarrassing.
Honda11 wrote:
Except for the fact that it is a team sport, since they are both on the same team. Its still better for their team to win...
Except for the fact that it is a team sport, since they are both on the same team. Its still better for their team to win a championship than to have kawi win the championship.
Correct. The Red Bull + KTM *team*, foremost, has responsibilities to the sponsor and manufacturer. This is an investment, and winning the championship is priority. That move was an easy and obvious call.

It is positively amazing how naive some people here are.
Funyun
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Funyun 4/29/2017 8:10pm
4/29/2017 8:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 8:12pm
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the situation? Why doesn't the team just come out and say we told him to do that and we are going to compensate him for doing so.

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mx_563
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mx_563 4/29/2017 8:13pm
4/29/2017 8:13pm
Donny O'Slow O'Hara wrote:
:whistle: :P [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191498/s1200_let_ryan_bye_1.jpg[/img]
Whistling Tongue



heh heh!!! That was good. ^^^^^

I bet there's potential for more memes. Marvin is the worst actor. Reminds me of the 85' Rodil cup. His "cross rutting" a single rut in a flat turn needs work.

Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:20pm
4/29/2017 8:20pm
Funyun wrote:
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the...
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the situation? Why doesn't the team just come out and say we told him to do that and we are going to compensate him for doing so.
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't.

They've been doing this in F1 forever: "fading brakes," "missing a shift," "skipping a gear," whatever. No one can ever disprove any of this, and it's the way a sophisticated operation conducts itself. All the other teams know it, but they might well end up in the same situation in two weeks' time, so they move on. It's in everyone's interest.

Welcome to the real world.
Cokeham23
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Cokeham23 4/29/2017 8:24pm
4/29/2017 8:24pm
cmarona463 wrote:
My whole problem with it is the denying. If a team wants its rider to move over for its other rider, whatever. If a rider wants...
My whole problem with it is the denying. If a team wants its rider to move over for its other rider, whatever. If a rider wants to move over to help another rider on his own, whatever. I think it's pretty crappy, but that's on them. But if you're gonna do that, own up to it. Say you moved to help your teammate. Don't say you "made a mistake" while trying to hide your smirk and when it was blatantly obvious. Your basically telling the fans of the sport that they're too stupid to know the truth.

Totally agree. I think if Marvin would've said something like 'Ryan was close to me, he's in the championship, and with him being my teammate I let him by so he can have a little more cushion heading into Vegas' instead of the "mistake" excuse, it would've been understandable.
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Drtbykr 4/29/2017 8:36pm
4/29/2017 8:36pm
Nothing personal, just business.
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kaptkaos 4/29/2017 8:38pm
4/29/2017 8:38pm
stackman17 wrote:
I thought it was great that Marvin passed Dungey. Here is why, he became a rabbit for Dungey to chase to insure that he is going...
I thought it was great that Marvin passed Dungey. Here is why, he became a rabbit for Dungey to chase to insure that he is going forward as fast as possible to prevent a repeat of last week. Dungey was provided an assist in that he was chasing and knew the pace stayed intense rather than settling into a poor pace.

As far as Marvin moving over, they are both employees of KTM. KTM is in the sport to win championships and insure that they are in the best possible position to do so.
I wish Vital had a 'LIKE" button. Good Post!
mxjon454
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mxjon454 4/29/2017 8:44pm
4/29/2017 8:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 8:44pm



For anyone that doesnt think that musquin let him by. No other reason for frankie to put ryan on the pitboard on the last lap.
Funyun
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Funyun 4/29/2017 8:44pm
4/29/2017 8:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 8:47pm
Funyun wrote:
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the...
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the situation? Why doesn't the team just come out and say we told him to do that and we are going to compensate him for doing so.
Brownstone322 wrote:
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't. They've been...
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't.

They've been doing this in F1 forever: "fading brakes," "missing a shift," "skipping a gear," whatever. No one can ever disprove any of this, and it's the way a sophisticated operation conducts itself. All the other teams know it, but they might well end up in the same situation in two weeks' time, so they move on. It's in everyone's interest.

Welcome to the real world.
I'm confused mx is a team sport why wouldn't they? It's not cheating and someone said it's well within the rules letting people intentionally pass you so I must be missing something here. I don't recall other team sports where "teams" have to lie and play tricks to help out "teammates". I mean when someone passes a ball to someone in basketball do they say they made a mistake giving them the ball? "Team sport" must mean someone different in Motorsports I guess.
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:45pm
4/29/2017 8:45pm
stackman17 wrote:
I thought it was great that Marvin passed Dungey. Here is why, he became a rabbit for Dungey to chase to insure that he is going...
I thought it was great that Marvin passed Dungey. Here is why, he became a rabbit for Dungey to chase to insure that he is going forward as fast as possible to prevent a repeat of last week. Dungey was provided an assist in that he was chasing and knew the pace stayed intense rather than settling into a poor pace.

As far as Marvin moving over, they are both employees of KTM. KTM is in the sport to win championships and insure that they are in the best possible position to do so.
kaptkaos wrote:
I wish Vital had a 'LIKE" button. Good Post!
I thought he made good points too, but I'm not sure if placing Musquin out front as a rabbit would have been more effective than to leave him in second as a blocker protecting Dungey's rear.

"Blocker" tactics are more common. A "rabbit" is usually employed in long-distrance endurance racing (Le Mans, Spa, Daytona, Sebring) to force an unrealistically fast pace in an attempt to lure competing teams to chase and prematurely wear out their gear. Somewhere along the way, of course, the rabbit mysteriously retires early.

But it worked out for KTM. Well played.

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Acidreamer 4/29/2017 8:47pm
4/29/2017 8:47pm
mxlegend99 wrote:
Wow. I cant believe so many people are happy with riders manipulating the results. I thought more people would have issue with cheating to gain an...
Wow. I cant believe so many people are happy with riders manipulating the results.

I thought more people would have issue with cheating to gain an advantage in the series. Its funny that this is acceptable. But a lapped rider not making it easier for a guy to pass is somehow the worst possible thing imaginable.

I guess the consistency is that everyone is happy so long as Dungey gets let by.
RG1 wrote:
It's not cheating!! It's a team sport as well as an individual one.
It kindof is cheating the title contention. Ryan didnt earn the win. He was given it.
Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:52pm
4/29/2017 8:52pm
Funyun wrote:
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the...
Clearly mx is a team sport where we should expect lame stuff like this to happen. Why make yourself look like an ass lying about the situation? Why doesn't the team just come out and say we told him to do that and we are going to compensate him for doing so.
Brownstone322 wrote:
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't. They've been...
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't.

They've been doing this in F1 forever: "fading brakes," "missing a shift," "skipping a gear," whatever. No one can ever disprove any of this, and it's the way a sophisticated operation conducts itself. All the other teams know it, but they might well end up in the same situation in two weeks' time, so they move on. It's in everyone's interest.

Welcome to the real world.
Funyun wrote:
I'm confused mx is a team sport why wouldn't they? It's not cheating and someone said it's well within the rules letting people intentionally pass you...
I'm confused mx is a team sport why wouldn't they? It's not cheating and someone said it's well within the rules letting people intentionally pass you so I must be missing something here. I don't recall other team sports where "teams" have to lie and play tricks to help out "teammates". I mean when someone passes a ball to someone in basketball do they say they made a mistake giving them the ball? "Team sport" must mean someone different in Motorsports I guess.
Why wouldn't they what? Why wouldn't they admit it? Because they're stakeholders in the sport -- the enterprise -- and there's NO UPSIDE to openly acknowledging that they are, in effect, manipulating the outcome. Some people aren't gonna like it, and they're gonna make silly arguments about the "integrity of the sport" as if gamblers in Atlantic City are pulling the strings. Hence a well-timed bit of cross-rutting.

Why on earth *would* they admit it? As much as I don't care for Supercross, it's not a jerkwater outfit.
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ledger 4/29/2017 8:59pm
4/29/2017 8:59pm
Drtbykr wrote:
Nothing personal, just business.
^^ What he said.
Funyun
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Funyun 4/29/2017 9:01pm
4/29/2017 9:01pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't. They've been...
No. These aren't backyard yahoos -- they're professional racing teams operating at a high level. They're not gonna admit to shit, and they shouldn't.

They've been doing this in F1 forever: "fading brakes," "missing a shift," "skipping a gear," whatever. No one can ever disprove any of this, and it's the way a sophisticated operation conducts itself. All the other teams know it, but they might well end up in the same situation in two weeks' time, so they move on. It's in everyone's interest.

Welcome to the real world.
Funyun wrote:
I'm confused mx is a team sport why wouldn't they? It's not cheating and someone said it's well within the rules letting people intentionally pass you...
I'm confused mx is a team sport why wouldn't they? It's not cheating and someone said it's well within the rules letting people intentionally pass you so I must be missing something here. I don't recall other team sports where "teams" have to lie and play tricks to help out "teammates". I mean when someone passes a ball to someone in basketball do they say they made a mistake giving them the ball? "Team sport" must mean someone different in Motorsports I guess.
Brownstone322 wrote:
Why wouldn't they what? Why wouldn't they admit it? Because they're stakeholders in the sport -- the enterprise -- and there's NO UPSIDE to openly acknowledging...
Why wouldn't they what? Why wouldn't they admit it? Because they're stakeholders in the sport -- the enterprise -- and there's NO UPSIDE to openly acknowledging that they are, in effect, manipulating the outcome. Some people aren't gonna like it, and they're gonna make silly arguments about the "integrity of the sport" as if gamblers in Atlantic City are pulling the strings. Hence a well-timed bit of cross-rutting.

Why on earth *would* they admit it? As much as I don't care for Supercross, it's not a jerkwater outfit.
So it's not really team sport now I understand the reason for hiding things.

Post a reply to: Musquin made a "Mistake"... Unbelievable