How Strong the Factory Bikes 250F

HuskyTamir
Edited Date/Time 2/2/2017 7:06am
Hello Guys
a wierd questing , i own an Husqvarna fc 250 2016 with FMF Full System New Sx Style
its feel pretty amazing and strong

i saw the Husqvarna in 2016 have the most HP in 250 class
like 4-6 more then the others

now the guys on the Supercross
like Savatgy , Forkner , plessinger those guys
like their bike has motor change? or its like pretty much stock engine , jsut diffrent forks and stuff like this
and like zach osborne or Mdavalos have stronger bike?

and if they change things like what exactly?

much ty
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thatswhathappens 2/2/2017 6:59am
2/2/2017 6:59am
I can't believe my brain actually registered that misspelling of "against."
Loose
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Loose 2/2/2017 7:04am
2/2/2017 7:04am
It's the rider dude
HuskyTamir 2/2/2017 7:05am
2/2/2017 7:05am
Loose wrote:
It's the rider dude
no doubt i know its always was the rider
just want to know about the engine part
xnationalwrench 2/2/2017 7:06am
2/2/2017 7:06am
Look at the video of Mitch Payton and building his engines (Pro Circuit) comparing a stock engine to any factory prepared engine is like comparing a street car engine to a F-1 engine.

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hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/2/2017 7:06am
2/2/2017 7:06am
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified.

And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not sure how big they can go for best performance with the stroke limits of the design but 280 to 300 cc would be easy.

When was the last protest ? When was the last teardown?

It may be different for sx but outdoors they impound the top bikes a few minutes then the mechanics come get .

No factory is gonna protest if they all do it,that unwritten rule. No privateer will either and get blackballed.

ML512
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ML512 2/2/2017 7:15am
2/2/2017 7:15am
hillbilly wrote:
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified. And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not...
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified.

And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not sure how big they can go for best performance with the stroke limits of the design but 280 to 300 cc would be easy.

When was the last protest ? When was the last teardown?

It may be different for sx but outdoors they impound the top bikes a few minutes then the mechanics come get .

No factory is gonna protest if they all do it,that unwritten rule. No privateer will either and get blackballed.

They tear down a few a season at random. I've seen Geico and PC both get torn down within the last two seasons right after a race.
mward94
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mward94 2/2/2017 7:26am
2/2/2017 7:26am
hillbilly wrote:
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified. And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not...
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified.

And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not sure how big they can go for best performance with the stroke limits of the design but 280 to 300 cc would be easy.

When was the last protest ? When was the last teardown?

It may be different for sx but outdoors they impound the top bikes a few minutes then the mechanics come get .

No factory is gonna protest if they all do it,that unwritten rule. No privateer will either and get blackballed.

You're crazy if you think the factory teams are running big bores.
sam hain
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sam hain 2/2/2017 7:32am
2/2/2017 7:32am
I'd guess factory 250f's pushing in the neighborhood of 55hp, problem with them is torque I'd imagine. That peak HP is probably near wide open too, I'm sure it depends on the track/mapping too. IDK I'm just spit ballin'
hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/2/2017 7:34am
2/2/2017 7:34am
hillbilly wrote:
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified. And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not...
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified.

And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not sure how big they can go for best performance with the stroke limits of the design but 280 to 300 cc would be easy.

When was the last protest ? When was the last teardown?

It may be different for sx but outdoors they impound the top bikes a few minutes then the mechanics come get .

No factory is gonna protest if they all do it,that unwritten rule. No privateer will either and get blackballed.

ML512 wrote:
They tear down a few a season at random. I've seen Geico and PC both get torn down within the last two seasons right after a...
They tear down a few a season at random. I've seen Geico and PC both get torn down within the last two seasons right after a race.
How about outdoors ML ?

Outdoors was where I had a conversation with somebody ,that somebody is a somebody I wouldn't doubt. And that somebody said they are big.

Indoors the 250 with its oversquare design is ripe for all the mods like lightweight parts and grinding or adding material for optimum volumetric efficiency ,,keeping the displacement legal.
c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 2/2/2017 7:37am
2/2/2017 7:37am
IMO all the factory 250F's are very strong and probably all with in 1-2 of each other. The KTM/Huskys might peak a few HP higher than the rest but as far as broad usable power goes if you over laid the dyno graphs from all of them I'd bet they are very close.
Mr.Reliable
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Mr.Reliable 2/2/2017 7:41am
2/2/2017 7:41am
hillbilly wrote:
How about outdoors ML ? Outdoors was where I had a conversation with somebody ,that somebody is a somebody I wouldn't doubt. And that somebody said...
How about outdoors ML ?

Outdoors was where I had a conversation with somebody ,that somebody is a somebody I wouldn't doubt. And that somebody said they are big.

Indoors the 250 with its oversquare design is ripe for all the mods like lightweight parts and grinding or adding material for optimum volumetric efficiency ,,keeping the displacement legal.
Jesus dude. Yes everyone are running big bores. Big black cloud of conspiracy over the sport. You're definitely on to something with your heard from a guy, from a guy, from a guy source.

Buuut, one guy can't pop a few unsubscribed meds and get away with it.
SMH
Mm471
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Mm471 2/2/2017 7:45am
2/2/2017 7:45am
Weren't the Yamalube bikes rumored to be the top dogs with their straight intake motors?
Dinosaur Media 2/2/2017 8:09am
2/2/2017 8:09am
mward94 wrote:
You're crazy if you think the factory teams are running big bores.
MCR? I'd give them a look see...
mx216
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mx216 2/2/2017 9:10am
2/2/2017 9:10am
TLD had a few engines checked over the last couple years too.
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 2/2/2017 9:19am
2/2/2017 9:19am
Its pretty well agreed that factor 250s are as powerful as stock 450s. Those teams hand pick the best parts from the manufacturer that they arent allowed to modify. And after that they have engineers and machinists making everything in all those motors smoother and lighter.
HenryA
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HenryA 2/2/2017 9:29am
2/2/2017 9:29am
hillbilly wrote:
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified. And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not...
Those engines are trickest of the trick,like $50,000 trick. Everything that spins is modified.

And, I don't believe for a minute that they are 250cc.. not sure how big they can go for best performance with the stroke limits of the design but 280 to 300 cc would be easy.

When was the last protest ? When was the last teardown?

It may be different for sx but outdoors they impound the top bikes a few minutes then the mechanics come get .

No factory is gonna protest if they all do it,that unwritten rule. No privateer will either and get blackballed.

The last protest was that time someone brought a YZ144 to Daytona. Grinning
Joko
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Joko 2/2/2017 9:33am
2/2/2017 9:33am Edited Date/Time 2/2/2017 9:39am
I'd think the KTM 250sxf's would respond well to a larger bore/stroke displacement, since their valves are a bit larger than others.

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tyler durden 2/2/2017 9:06pm
2/2/2017 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2017 9:06pm
mward94 wrote:
You're crazy if you think the factory teams are running big bores.
Dinosaur Media wrote:
MCR? I'd give them a look see...
this. their starting records defy statistical probabilities. except not now that honda is more involved. go figure.......
mingham97
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mingham97 2/3/2017 12:24am
2/3/2017 12:24am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2017 12:29am
Acidreamer wrote:
Its pretty well agreed that factor 250s are as powerful as stock 450s. Those teams hand pick the best parts from the manufacturer that they arent...
Its pretty well agreed that factor 250s are as powerful as stock 450s. Those teams hand pick the best parts from the manufacturer that they arent allowed to modify. And after that they have engineers and machinists making everything in all those motors smoother and lighter.
Mitch Payton said in Science of Supercross that his engines pump out 10-15% more power then a stock engine. I think people forget that these engines are not 7 litre chevy engines. There isn't a whole heap of room to shed weight in these things. I think that the whole factory engine thing is exhadurated. At the end of the day, we are shown that a consistent finish is what gets a championship. These guys aren't gonna shave everything and compromise reliability for 2 hp.

Further more, Mitch likes his race engines to last 5 hours. An engine that lasts 5 hours at race pace is not as highly strung as you think when compared to say a nitro funny car
Aus_Rider_22 2/3/2017 1:03am
2/3/2017 1:03am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2017 1:06am
mingham97 wrote:
Mitch Payton said in Science of Supercross that his engines pump out 10-15% more power then a stock engine. I think people forget that these engines...
Mitch Payton said in Science of Supercross that his engines pump out 10-15% more power then a stock engine. I think people forget that these engines are not 7 litre chevy engines. There isn't a whole heap of room to shed weight in these things. I think that the whole factory engine thing is exhadurated. At the end of the day, we are shown that a consistent finish is what gets a championship. These guys aren't gonna shave everything and compromise reliability for 2 hp.

Further more, Mitch likes his race engines to last 5 hours. An engine that lasts 5 hours at race pace is not as highly strung as you think when compared to say a nitro funny car
Payton must be lying.

My 16 YZ250F was 36.23hp stock
Same dyno with mods 41.10hp

mods were; cylinder head porting, cylinder machining, GET RX1 ECU, Rocket race spec system, dyno tuning (total:$3320 w/ labour)

That's 13.5% increase in HP with stock everything internally other than above mentioned.

Factory 250F's would be 50hp+ IMO with all the R&D and parts availability! The KTM's are 40+ stock!

edit; yes I realise outright HP isn't everything, the spread and placement of power is important, especially in SX.
Just think Mitch was talking down the power his PC 250f's are putting out.
dirtaddict 2/3/2017 2:01am
2/3/2017 2:01am
They would be well over 50 HP I have 16 fc 250 with 4.1 fmf , bumped comp and port work , on race fuel it was tested and showed 49 plus , I ride it on pump fuel so I'm guessing it would be 1 or 2 down on that but essentially it goes like a stock 250 2 stroke with a softer hit .
ab
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ab 2/3/2017 6:27am
2/3/2017 6:27am
I remember when Forkner was still an amateur and he was racing the mini o's here in Florida. The dude was lined up with all 450 A riders and he ripped a massive hole shot on a 250f. -So those bike have to be putting down a bottom end power equal to a stock 450
Kx125rider 2/3/2017 6:51am
2/3/2017 6:51am
Those motors are nowhere near stock if thats what you're asking.
mingham97
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mingham97 2/3/2017 7:08am
2/3/2017 7:08am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2017 7:12am
mingham97 wrote:
Mitch Payton said in Science of Supercross that his engines pump out 10-15% more power then a stock engine. I think people forget that these engines...
Mitch Payton said in Science of Supercross that his engines pump out 10-15% more power then a stock engine. I think people forget that these engines are not 7 litre chevy engines. There isn't a whole heap of room to shed weight in these things. I think that the whole factory engine thing is exhadurated. At the end of the day, we are shown that a consistent finish is what gets a championship. These guys aren't gonna shave everything and compromise reliability for 2 hp.

Further more, Mitch likes his race engines to last 5 hours. An engine that lasts 5 hours at race pace is not as highly strung as you think when compared to say a nitro funny car
Aus_Rider_22 wrote:
Payton must be lying. My 16 YZ250F was 36.23hp stock Same dyno with mods 41.10hp mods were; cylinder head porting, cylinder machining, GET RX1 ECU, Rocket...
Payton must be lying.

My 16 YZ250F was 36.23hp stock
Same dyno with mods 41.10hp

mods were; cylinder head porting, cylinder machining, GET RX1 ECU, Rocket race spec system, dyno tuning (total:$3320 w/ labour)

That's 13.5% increase in HP with stock everything internally other than above mentioned.

Factory 250F's would be 50hp+ IMO with all the R&D and parts availability! The KTM's are 40+ stock!

edit; yes I realise outright HP isn't everything, the spread and placement of power is important, especially in SX.
Just think Mitch was talking down the power his PC 250f's are putting out.
Yeah spread of power and amount of torque would come before peak hp imo. Peak hp would still be massively important. One other thing to think about. I don't know what your speed is and I have no idea how you ride your motorcycle, but would you trust your bike to be ridden in a supercross by Justin Hill for 5 hours swith race fuel and 100% know that it won't drop a valve or wear enough to lose that 14% hp? I'm not trying to knock your bike I'd love to ride a 250f that modded but you get me!
I know that some of these teams would prefer a 90% rider (dungey) and finish all the races. Exact same thing with the bike.
HuskyTamir 2/4/2017 2:59am
2/4/2017 2:59am
dirtaddict wrote:
They would be well over 50 HP I have 16 fc 250 with 4.1 fmf , bumped comp and port work , on race fuel it...
They would be well over 50 HP I have 16 fc 250 with 4.1 fmf , bumped comp and port work , on race fuel it was tested and showed 49 plus , I ride it on pump fuel so I'm guessing it would be 1 or 2 down on that but essentially it goes like a stock 250 2 stroke with a softer hit .
i sended you a pm please respond sir
hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/4/2017 7:37am
2/4/2017 7:37am
hillbilly wrote:
How about outdoors ML ? Outdoors was where I had a conversation with somebody ,that somebody is a somebody I wouldn't doubt. And that somebody said...
How about outdoors ML ?

Outdoors was where I had a conversation with somebody ,that somebody is a somebody I wouldn't doubt. And that somebody said they are big.

Indoors the 250 with its oversquare design is ripe for all the mods like lightweight parts and grinding or adding material for optimum volumetric efficiency ,,keeping the displacement legal.
Mr.Reliable wrote:
Jesus dude. Yes everyone are running big bores. Big black cloud of conspiracy over the sport. You're definitely on to something with your heard from a...
Jesus dude. Yes everyone are running big bores. Big black cloud of conspiracy over the sport. You're definitely on to something with your heard from a guy, from a guy, from a guy source.

Buuut, one guy can't pop a few unsubscribed meds and get away with it.
SMH
It is not just "some guy" . It is a person way up there in the sport that I've known for nearly 2 decades.

I didn't ask if they were big, we were standing at impound after 2nd motos and I asked him about teardown and who in the AMA crowd that was there had the knowledge to look for trickery.

He got a laugh and started talking, I just listened.

bdub
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bdub 2/4/2017 7:52am
2/4/2017 7:52am
I would imagine with all of the factory teams, its creating more "usable" power instead of peak hp that they are all after. There is a great article in Cycle World about the new Indian flat track machine that goes into how they designed a motor that will work best around a circle track, moto has to be very similar.

Link to said article
http://www.cycleworld.com/indian-motorcycle-ftr750-dirt-track-race-engi…
davbrucas
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davbrucas 2/5/2017 10:53pm
2/5/2017 10:53pm
Joko wrote:
I'd think the KTM 250sxf's would respond well to a larger bore/stroke displacement, since their valves are a bit larger than others.
Yup...my 16 270sxf makes 53hp. We are adding the GET tuning and 2nd injector mod now. Tuner thinks he can get 1-2hp more at peak. Torque is around 26lb-ft now.

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