What do you do in this situation...

Dtat720
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A week ago Sunday my brother was rear ended by a drunk driver while riding a harley. Hes in bad shape, facial reconstruction started last saturday. Broken neck, broken back, shattered tibia, every rib broken, brain bled for 5 days.... pretty certain hes paralyzed from the waist down. Bit his tongue off, not sure if the reatatchment is going to take. Most of his teeth were in his sinuses and lungs. Part of his jaw was wedged in his throat.

The driver was insured. Or so we thought.... turns out SHE, was using fake id. She is an illegal from Mexico. Been deported 8 times... she is currently in jail for aggrevated assualt on my brother and dui homicide for the girl on the back of the bike. As soon as the hospital got wind she was an illegal, they have been hounding my mom to sign consent to treat forms and put financial responsibility on her. His bill is already over one million for the past 8 days of care. They are wanting to stop care and release him unless she signs.... how is that right...
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Roach
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1/31/2017 9:29am
Get the local news station to come out and talk to you all about this situation. Hope it gets picked up by mainstream media. I'm very sorry for the situation you and your family are going through! I hope your brother pulls through!
JW381
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1/31/2017 9:30am
Dtat720 wrote:
A week ago Sunday my brother was rear ended by a drunk driver while riding a harley. Hes in bad shape, facial reconstruction started last saturday...
A week ago Sunday my brother was rear ended by a drunk driver while riding a harley. Hes in bad shape, facial reconstruction started last saturday. Broken neck, broken back, shattered tibia, every rib broken, brain bled for 5 days.... pretty certain hes paralyzed from the waist down. Bit his tongue off, not sure if the reatatchment is going to take. Most of his teeth were in his sinuses and lungs. Part of his jaw was wedged in his throat.

The driver was insured. Or so we thought.... turns out SHE, was using fake id. She is an illegal from Mexico. Been deported 8 times... she is currently in jail for aggrevated assualt on my brother and dui homicide for the girl on the back of the bike. As soon as the hospital got wind she was an illegal, they have been hounding my mom to sign consent to treat forms and put financial responsibility on her. His bill is already over one million for the past 8 days of care. They are wanting to stop care and release him unless she signs.... how is that right...
That doesn't make sense to me. If the hospital releases her, is she not then the responsibility of the police department? Do you have a lawyer?

Also, very sorry about your brother. That's truly awful.
cjmx
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Fantasy
1/31/2017 9:32am
sorry to hear about your brother and the girl on the back of the bike. This sounds awful. Does your brother have health insurance?

I wouldn't sign anything without consulting a lawyer first.
Dtat720
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1/31/2017 9:41am
The driver is in jail. Has been since released from the hospital. No bail. My brother and I are out of state, I am in Mississippi my brother is in Atlanta and my younger brother who this happened to is in Ft Worth Texas. Our mom is there with him. We got her in touch with an attorney this morning and paid the retainer. Its a hot mess.... If you are in the DFW area, this was the wreck that shut down the I-35 for 5 hours a week ago.

The Shop

JW381
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1/31/2017 9:43am
So you're talking about the girl on the back of his bike?
Dtat720
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1/31/2017 9:44am
What we are baffled by is the condition my brother is in and the hospital saying no care unless we sign responsibility for payment. My brother is a ranch manager, no healthcare. Insured under the ranch insurance for auto, not motorcycle. So they are saying they wont pay either. They are wanting to send him out the door with a trach and feed tube in not knowing if hes paralyzed or not.
Dtat720
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1/31/2017 9:45am
JW381 wrote:
So you're talking about the girl on the back of his bike?
No, the driver.
Skidaddle
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1/31/2017 9:57am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2017 10:00am
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then set you on the sidewalk.

AND that is an insurance that particular hospital will accept.

If its not life threatening, they don't have to treat you at all if that ER doesn't take your insurance. For example, a broken leg, they can deny you totally.

A compound, they would probably patch the hole and bleeding and send you off.

I got that right from the Hospital when our insurances changed and the local USUAL places stopped taking our plans. So calling around, I learned how the ER system works and what they are and arent required to do.

The lady basically said, "If you have a life threatening injury like a gunshot, you're better off going to the ER at XXXXXX. We may or may not take you, but it would be just to stablize you, nothing more. We won't accept your insurance anymore"

And you wouldn't have this problem in say Canada. Here it is all about money, who they can bill, and ZERO about healthcare. Zero.
GuyB
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1/31/2017 10:05am
JW381 wrote:
So you're talking about the girl on the back of his bike?
He's talking about the hospital wanting his mom to sign the financial responsibility papers.
Dtat720
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1/31/2017 10:10am
Skidaddle wrote:
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then...
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then set you on the sidewalk.

AND that is an insurance that particular hospital will accept.

If its not life threatening, they don't have to treat you at all if that ER doesn't take your insurance. For example, a broken leg, they can deny you totally.

A compound, they would probably patch the hole and bleeding and send you off.

I got that right from the Hospital when our insurances changed and the local USUAL places stopped taking our plans. So calling around, I learned how the ER system works and what they are and arent required to do.

The lady basically said, "If you have a life threatening injury like a gunshot, you're better off going to the ER at XXXXXX. We may or may not take you, but it would be just to stablize you, nothing more. We won't accept your insurance anymore"

And you wouldn't have this problem in say Canada. Here it is all about money, who they can bill, and ZERO about healthcare. Zero.
I understand that aspect, our issue is, he isnt stable. Our mom has been in healthcare for 30+ years both on the floor and in admin. Knowing he isnt stable and knowing they have to continue treatment, that is the issue. What they are doing is holding his treatment over her head to sign the consent and responsibility forms. Knowing he isnt stable enough to discharge. The extent of damage to his back and neck havent been looked at yet, nobody knows if he will be paralyzed or not. They just know they are both broken.

Its almost like extortion to an extent... trying to play our moms emotions to get her to sign even though they are still obligated to treat.
XXVoid MainXX
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1/31/2017 10:12am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2017 10:12am
Wow. SO sorry to hear this. I don't really have any ideas but I sure hope things work out for you and your family! Sad
-MAVERICK-
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1/31/2017 10:17am
Insurance or not from the illegal can you not go after her or her family for everything they have?

What about the insurance from the passenger?

Not sure how things work down in the USA but about a month or so before my accident a guy we know was paralyzed riding his dirt bike on private property and for some reason it's his car insurance that paid out his settlement. How that works I have no idea.

I know this is a totally different case but something needs to happen. Your brother can't just be left hang to dry.

Look to see if there's any special program from the state he had his accident that pays out insurance to uninsured drivers. There's a program in my province like that. Let say for example a 14 year old kid steals a car and gets into an accident and suffers a tragic accident that program will pay out insurance benefits to that kid. The shitty part about that program is that it is funded by the taxes we pay. Kid steals a car, is totally irresponsible, gets seriously hurt and needs care/benefits for life. Yeah that's fair for us tax payers...not. Does that kid deserve those benefits after being an idiot? Absolutely not but that's life.

Look into that. Perhaps there's a similar program.

Definitely get in touch with a lawyer.

bsm121
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1/31/2017 10:36am
They should sell off all the working organs in the drunk drivers body to pay for the care your brother needs.

Horrible story.
TXDirt
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1/31/2017 10:39am
If you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, or even potentially a million plus, you could always sign it for now and then file bankruptcy later. Medical debt is considered an unsecured debt and does not have priority in bankruptcy proceedings, so it gets wiped out.

Obviously not saying this is a good path, just an option.

Sorry your family is going through this.
Kenny Lingus
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1/31/2017 11:14am
Very tough situation for you guys. Only advice I can give is to NOT sign anything that makes you responsible for ANY bills. They just can't wheel him out to the curb either. He would have to be released into someone else's care. They may not have to perform any care that is deemed non-life threatening but will still have to care for him. It sickens me that you have to get a lawyer.

For profit health care is b.s.!
akillerwombat
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1/31/2017 11:30am
Damn dude – horrible news. Like everyone is saying don't sign anything until you can talk to a lawyer (of which I am sure their are one's you can talk to for free).

Pretty shitty health system we've got around here – hopefully you guys find a smooth way through all of it.
Dtat720
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1/31/2017 11:43am
We started the application for the texas victims of crime fund. It maxes out at 125k though. His bill is already over 1mil.... mom is with an attorney now working on the next step. Hopefully something will happen and he can continue to get the care he needs right now. Shits just crazy...
BSFL
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1/31/2017 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2017 12:22pm
Damn dude that's crazy. Very sorry to hear. Not many options that I know of in this situation, but TXDirt is right about the bankruptcy route. Worst comes to worst that's what I'd do. Shit what else can you do. My dad has worked in the auto collision industry for 35+ years and see's this shit happen all the time. Really sad man and I wish your family the best.
bugnboo
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1/31/2017 12:57pm
Skidaddle wrote:
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then...
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then set you on the sidewalk.

AND that is an insurance that particular hospital will accept.

If its not life threatening, they don't have to treat you at all if that ER doesn't take your insurance. For example, a broken leg, they can deny you totally.

A compound, they would probably patch the hole and bleeding and send you off.

I got that right from the Hospital when our insurances changed and the local USUAL places stopped taking our plans. So calling around, I learned how the ER system works and what they are and arent required to do.

The lady basically said, "If you have a life threatening injury like a gunshot, you're better off going to the ER at XXXXXX. We may or may not take you, but it would be just to stablize you, nothing more. We won't accept your insurance anymore"

And you wouldn't have this problem in say Canada. Here it is all about money, who they can bill, and ZERO about healthcare. Zero.
That's a totally flawed system,human life means shit!$$$$$ rule
Skidaddle
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1/31/2017 1:15pm
Skidaddle wrote:
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then...
Tough deal. Unless he has insurance, they only have to treat you enough to where you aren't going to die and are stabilized. They can then set you on the sidewalk.

AND that is an insurance that particular hospital will accept.

If its not life threatening, they don't have to treat you at all if that ER doesn't take your insurance. For example, a broken leg, they can deny you totally.

A compound, they would probably patch the hole and bleeding and send you off.

I got that right from the Hospital when our insurances changed and the local USUAL places stopped taking our plans. So calling around, I learned how the ER system works and what they are and arent required to do.

The lady basically said, "If you have a life threatening injury like a gunshot, you're better off going to the ER at XXXXXX. We may or may not take you, but it would be just to stablize you, nothing more. We won't accept your insurance anymore"

And you wouldn't have this problem in say Canada. Here it is all about money, who they can bill, and ZERO about healthcare. Zero.
bugnboo wrote:
That's a totally flawed system,human life means shit!$$$$$ rule
It always has been. Lots of Americans go broke and bankrupt.
The kicker is insurance is insurance not healthcare. They CAN and routinely deny claims to avoid paying.
They look for a way out. That is the adjusters job. To find a reason to deny payment.

Without insurance or someone paying, all they have to do is get him stable.
Once that happens, they can roll you out the door if you are an adult. I made 100s of calls to different hospitals billing and ER departments to learn what to do when we lost our long time insurance.

Our main hospital said in an Emergency to go 2 other places if not life threatening because they will take you.

My main said they flat-out do not take our insurance anymore and Can and probably would tell us they cant take you.
Unless of course it is life threatening which is the law.



Its a shit system.
peelout
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1/31/2017 1:35pm
damn dude... this thread made me sick to my stomach.

my girlfriend had a massive stroke on the 21st of December, she's out of the hospital and in rehab but we still haven't received the medical bills and i'm wondering wtf is going to happen.

best of luck to your brother and your family in dealing with this.
kzizok
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1/31/2017 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2017 2:28pm
First of all I am so sorry for what has happened.

Next, they can't legally withhold treatment, nor can they discharge/transfer him, unless it is to another facility that has the same level, or better care, and has agreed to take him. Stable can mean different things. Stable like, "we are sending you home because you no longer need medical care" is different than stable, "but only with certain levels of medical care, stable". That may be what they are talking about, as that is common where stabilized patients are considered for long term, inpatient rehab. They get appropriate care with additional care geared for the long term. Tell your mom to ask for clarification, in regards to if they are talking about that or to an LTACH (long term acute care hospital). I only have the info you've posted so its worth looking into.

There are patients that have never have/had any pay source, ever, and are in all the time, in all levels of care.

Im not sure what they have asked her to sign but consent to treat, is usually just that. If the person is not able to make decisions regarding their care, they need the closest relative/spouse to OK medical treatment. They have probably said they need it to treat him medically and sometimes that can be misconstrued as a financial document. If she doesnt sign it, then his medical care team will make decisions on his behalf. At that point, they would take familial wishes into consideration but are not obligated to and treatment would be defined as they see fit.

However, Im not sure what all they are asking for her to sign and am in no way telling you guys what to do but trying to shed a little light on the situation.

Hope Ive helped and truly am so sorry for what everyone in this thread has had happen including Peelout and his GF. Life can be tough and health issues can be devastating.
JW381
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1/31/2017 2:34pm
peelout wrote:
damn dude... this thread made me sick to my stomach. my girlfriend had a massive stroke on the 21st of December, she's out of the hospital...
damn dude... this thread made me sick to my stomach.

my girlfriend had a massive stroke on the 21st of December, she's out of the hospital and in rehab but we still haven't received the medical bills and i'm wondering wtf is going to happen.

best of luck to your brother and your family in dealing with this.
I had my appendix out around the same time. I'm insured, but my share of the bill is still far more than I can afford. So I feel for you, the OP, and all the others that get fucked by our completely flawed system. Very sad and unfortunate.

OP, sorry about the confusion earlier, keep us updated and I hope for the best
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
1/31/2017 6:55pm
Sorry for what's happened, hoping for as full of a recovery as possible for your brother. Hopefully 100%!

The immigration status of the person who hit him isn't really an issue, other than it could make it hard to track them down later of course. There are a lot more people driving around without insurance then there should be, no matter of their citizenship status.

The hard part is going to be that the hospital can't just "assign" the cost of care over to the third party (except for worker's comp, I think) so they are going to want someone to be responsible for the dollars somehow. There are a couple of angles to think about, but the most important advice is certainly to get a decent lawyer, especially if his life is still in danger.

If your mom does sign the responsibility form, and she has assets, in theory they could put liens on them. As someone said, the next step could be bankruptcy of some kind, which isn't ideal but may actually be the least hurtful thing in the end.

Whether the person who hit him is an illegal alien or not, even getting a judgement against them means that you are still likely to not get a whole lot out of them because they will probably just going to declare bankruptcy themselves, and that won't likely be a debt you can collect.

I would think that a lawyer threatening them (hospital) with damages due to your brother not being "stabilized" would be a tact to take in the semi-short term. If they were to kick your brother to the curb and he were to not survive, it's likely that they'd be paying a lot more than they are going to truly spend on care (which is a lot less than the $1M+ they are currently telling you). Once he is stabilized, then it's a different story obviously.

Not going to turn this into a political thing out of respect for your family, but I do have to say that times like this make me wish for universal healthcare for all of our citizens, even if it does piss off a few people. It gets real when someone we love needs lifesaving care.
TXDirt
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1/31/2017 7:18pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Sorry for what's happened, hoping for as full of a recovery as possible for your brother. Hopefully 100%! The immigration status of the person who hit...
Sorry for what's happened, hoping for as full of a recovery as possible for your brother. Hopefully 100%!

The immigration status of the person who hit him isn't really an issue, other than it could make it hard to track them down later of course. There are a lot more people driving around without insurance then there should be, no matter of their citizenship status.

The hard part is going to be that the hospital can't just "assign" the cost of care over to the third party (except for worker's comp, I think) so they are going to want someone to be responsible for the dollars somehow. There are a couple of angles to think about, but the most important advice is certainly to get a decent lawyer, especially if his life is still in danger.

If your mom does sign the responsibility form, and she has assets, in theory they could put liens on them. As someone said, the next step could be bankruptcy of some kind, which isn't ideal but may actually be the least hurtful thing in the end.

Whether the person who hit him is an illegal alien or not, even getting a judgement against them means that you are still likely to not get a whole lot out of them because they will probably just going to declare bankruptcy themselves, and that won't likely be a debt you can collect.

I would think that a lawyer threatening them (hospital) with damages due to your brother not being "stabilized" would be a tact to take in the semi-short term. If they were to kick your brother to the curb and he were to not survive, it's likely that they'd be paying a lot more than they are going to truly spend on care (which is a lot less than the $1M+ they are currently telling you). Once he is stabilized, then it's a different story obviously.

Not going to turn this into a political thing out of respect for your family, but I do have to say that times like this make me wish for universal healthcare for all of our citizens, even if it does piss off a few people. It gets real when someone we love needs lifesaving care.
Agree with what you said. We had good friends go through a costly medical situation. They knew they would eventually file bankruptcy. From when they got first bill to when they filed bankruptcy was over a year. During that time they "cleaned up" their assets so to speak. Basically anything that could get a lien on it they sheltered it somehow. The house for example was put in their parents name. It took time to do all this but once they did bankruptcy they really didn't lose much.
Hut
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1/31/2017 7:31pm
I have no advice I just wish to say that I am very sorry to hear what your family is going through. Prayers for your Brother and the poor girl that was with him.
tunedlength
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1/31/2017 9:09pm
My mother passed away last year due to complications from Alzheimer's.
Two things that stand out from that five year adventure.
1. Enjoy every moment with your loved ones because things can change quickly.
2, Do not sign anything that makes you the responsible financial party for an adult.


Sunhouse
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2/1/2017 7:35am
This is truly bizzarre. I wish I could help you out, I used to work as a lawyer in criminal law and immigration, and now I am a lawyer within insurance. But I have no understanding of US health and insurance legislation. And after reading your terrible story I want nothing to do with it either, I am sorry to say. It is beyond comprehension to me how this is possible in the Western world in 2017.
I wish you all the best, and when in doubt of your rights or how to deal with this, don't ask for advice from anyone without a law degree. Let a professional deal with it, do not listen to advice from people without a degree - no exceptions! Don't go off and do things because someone thought it was a good idea, or if they were questioning your lawyers ways of handling the case.
Get a lawyer and don't involve others - period!

Best wishes
motoman617
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2/1/2017 9:24am
First off your brother is in my prayers. Hope he makes a full recovery.

Next I know you want what is best for your brother but do not let your Mom get pressured into signing anything. Talk to that attorney first. If she has to do it to get your brother taken care of do like others have suggested and work the system to your advantage. Sad it has to come to that but you have to look after your own.

The whole medical profession is so messed up. I just had a kidney stone removed on Jan 6. Minor procedure. I have insurance through work. So far my share has been over $6,000. I will meet my out of pocket for the year with one minor deal. Both the hospital and Doctor called me the day before the procedure and wanted their money upfront before the surgery. I will be the rest of this year trying to pay everything and the sad part is I still have the hurting that they said was from the kidney stone. Getting sick sucks. You not only have to worry about your health but if you are going to be able to pay for it. Not right for honest hard working people.

I cannot imagine the bills with a major incident like this. The girl that hit your brother probably didn't pay a dime for her treatment.

Best of luck and keep us posted on his progress.
JW381
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2/1/2017 10:11am
motoman617 wrote:
First off your brother is in my prayers. Hope he makes a full recovery. Next I know you want what is best for your brother but...
First off your brother is in my prayers. Hope he makes a full recovery.

Next I know you want what is best for your brother but do not let your Mom get pressured into signing anything. Talk to that attorney first. If she has to do it to get your brother taken care of do like others have suggested and work the system to your advantage. Sad it has to come to that but you have to look after your own.

The whole medical profession is so messed up. I just had a kidney stone removed on Jan 6. Minor procedure. I have insurance through work. So far my share has been over $6,000. I will meet my out of pocket for the year with one minor deal. Both the hospital and Doctor called me the day before the procedure and wanted their money upfront before the surgery. I will be the rest of this year trying to pay everything and the sad part is I still have the hurting that they said was from the kidney stone. Getting sick sucks. You not only have to worry about your health but if you are going to be able to pay for it. Not right for honest hard working people.

I cannot imagine the bills with a major incident like this. The girl that hit your brother probably didn't pay a dime for her treatment.

Best of luck and keep us posted on his progress.
Sounds similar to what I went thru in early December. Can't believe thry asked for their money up front. It seems as though the health care system is getting worse.

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