James Stewart vs everyone else. Just the facts man.

Gooose
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1/19/2017 12:26am
Your facts are factually different from my facts...There for they become your opinion and fact of the matter is, I for a fact don't like your opinion.
sende
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1/19/2017 12:30am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2017 8:12am
MX Guy wrote:
Dude. Let it go.
jeffro503 wrote:
There is only so many times i can hear it before i have to say something. That is why i posted the pictures...they do the speaking...
There is only so many times i can hear it before i have to say something. That is why i posted the pictures...they do the speaking for me.
How's that working out for you? 20+ posts later... Grinning
Barrzy256
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1/19/2017 12:30am
It's not just about the stats....James' raw speed, was the greatest we've ever seen. Fact
Helder
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1/19/2017 12:44am
Barrzy256 wrote:
It's not just about the stats....James' raw speed, was the greatest we've ever seen. Fact
And what evidence do you have to back up "fact" a fact is something known to be proven with evidence.

And then for this there would need to be a comparison a la what Jeffro has done to prove his fact.

I'm neither here nor there on the subject but i would like to see the reasoning?

The Shop

TXDirt
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1/19/2017 12:57am
Could someone make a chart that weights MX wins/championships over SX wins/championships. Maybe 60/40 or 75/25

I would also like to see a chart that just shows SX rankings. Then a chart that shows MX rankings. We could then take a riders combined ranking and devide by two and see where they stack up. Doing it this way will better tell the story of "overal" best. This would probably move someone like McGrath down a spot or two and move RV up, which would be more accurate.

Hopefully someone gets what I'm saying.

Going by the eye test:

RC
RV
JS
Mc
RJ
ATKpilot99
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1/19/2017 4:41am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Here's a very basic use of data instead of using pictures that aren't uniform in what they contain..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/01/18/170056/s1200_WIN_PER.jpg[/img]
Here's a very basic use of data instead of using pictures that aren't uniform in what they contain.....



McGrath has 222 250/450 SX/MX starts then add to that his 125 national MX starts.
magoo1982
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1/19/2017 4:53am
From what his fans on here say, he leads the stats on crash n burns leading to a lot of concussions .. Is that the goal of a smart champion racer ???
1/19/2017 5:43am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2017 5:45am
If someone posted a thread about Magoo Chandler, Jeffro and his brethren would be in there talking about how amazing he was, even thought the stats do not indicate it. Don't even deny it for a second.

Take the guy directly above this post for a perfect example. Too easy. Look at his post, and look at his username.
APLMAN99
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1/19/2017 6:29am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
McGrath has 222 250/450 SX/MX starts then add to that his 125 national MX starts.
Shoot, you're right! Must have somehow not pasted MC's races to excel and still had Roczen's up.

Here's the corrected percentages. Stewart moves up to 2nd........





mx836
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1/19/2017 6:37am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2017 6:39am
Adam43 wrote:
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine. You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable. You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is...
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine.

You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable.

You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is second highest all-time for wins, above everyone save Carmichael by a significant margin.

He is one of just two riders to record a perfect season.

These are also facts.
Why would someone want to post that to prove their biased OPINION? Apparenly Jeffro feels that if somebody disagrees, they are just another fanboy. Opinions are like assholes.
rcm406
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1/19/2017 6:42am
IMO, stats doesn't tell the whole story. I look at the races where all the top guys start together and see who passes who. How many times has RC, RV, CR, RD put a straight up pass on James? I can count on 1 hand between all 4! It would take 10 hands to count the number of times James has put a pass on them!Woohoo Unfortunately, James never learned how to manage most of the series that he completed.
Park Boys
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1/19/2017 6:42am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2017 7:39am
jeffro503 wrote:
That's an old stat Alp! It's been floating around for like 3 years. You need to come up with a current stat to prove your point...
That's an old stat Alp! It's been floating around for like 3 years. You need to come up with a current stat to prove your point. I don't need to.....you're the one who is calling bullshit here.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's through the end of last season, 2016 Pretty accurate for most on the list I did add a few others to the chart, just to...
That's through the end of last season, 2016 Pretty accurate for most on the list

I did add a few others to the chart, just to see where they fell some surprised me!

These are also through the 2016 season, so they are "out of date" by 2 races for the guys who rode those......





Your stats are flawed and incorrect, MC entered 175 250SX races alone. Where you came up with 133 is beyond me. Also Roczen has more wins and less races completed. RC entred 242 races in his career and these are just off the top of my head. Horrible list of misinformation. Also your including regional races entred on a national list but did not include the race wins? I posted shit on here years ago that was accurate so stuff like this did not happen. I included podiums as well.
mx836
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1/19/2017 6:43am
jeffro503 wrote:
His speed still only landed him behind RC....multiple years. RC not only matched James , but beat him for every championship they ever raced against each...
His speed still only landed him behind RC....multiple years. RC not only matched James , but beat him for every championship they ever raced against each other.

RV and RD could almost say the same.

Why don't they get mentioned in your eyes of how they changed the sport? Just asking.
Because they didn't change the sport.
Moto520
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1/19/2017 6:46am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2017 7:01am
Adam43 wrote:
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine. You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable. You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is...
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine.

You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable.

You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is second highest all-time for wins, above everyone save Carmichael by a significant margin.

He is one of just two riders to record a perfect season.

These are also facts.
mx836 wrote:
Why would someone want to post that to prove their biased OPINION? Apparenly Jeffro feels that if somebody disagrees, they are just another fanboy. Opinions are...
Why would someone want to post that to prove their biased OPINION? Apparenly Jeffro feels that if somebody disagrees, they are just another fanboy. Opinions are like assholes.
Bud...I kind of got into it a bit last night trying to explain that we aren't saying that Stewart is the best ever....just one of the all time greats. I was kind of aggressive with my language due to what I felt was a condescending tone coming from the other opinion on this subject......most of the posts got removed (which I completely understand.....the site has rules).

AGAIN.....we aren't saying Stewart is the best ever.....just one of the all time greats. I would say top three but that is open to opinion.

It's frustrating to try and get involved with the threads......especially from a phone

Although I do understand some of Jeffro's point. I think he is looking at championships over race wins. With those statistics....you can see that Stewart should get surpassed in 450 championships (i'm throwing this in so I don't get freaking roasted).
mx836
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1/19/2017 6:49am
[i]" just the fastest to get around a motocross... track"[/i]- in the era of James Stewart's motocross prime, that would be Ricky Carmicheal. Don't understand how...
" just the fastest to get around a motocross... track"- in the era of James Stewart's motocross prime, that would be Ricky Carmicheal.

Don't understand how you guys can claim he's the fastest in MX. He clearly wasn't. Bubba scrub an all, Ricky dealt
it to him. UNDEFEATED career, UNSURPASSED WINS THREE perfect seasons! Two every moto and the last with every overall. I don't care who called him what... WE saw it. But hey.. it's your lie, you tell it Wink

And up above Kong even gives James credit for Ricky being the GOAT! haha That's gold.
I don't see anybody posting these things you speak. Nobody has said James is the best ever. One of, certainly, but he's no RC. I see all the haters posting about vital members saying James is the best ever, will win races, etc. I don't see that anywhere, and I don't think anybody believes it.
TXDirt
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1/19/2017 6:49am
One 18 minute race against 22 riders should not count the same as Two 30 minute motos against 80 riders. This is why you should weight the motocross wins more. Or you should count each moto as a win. Then see how they stack up. Because the supercross series is longer then MX series, there is not a huge disparity in amount of chances to win, so you can count a moto as a win. This will tell I'm sure a much more accurate story on who stacks up.
mx836
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1/19/2017 6:54am
Moto520 wrote:
Bud...I kind of got into it a bit last night trying to explain that we aren't saying that Stewart is the best ever....just one of the...
Bud...I kind of got into it a bit last night trying to explain that we aren't saying that Stewart is the best ever....just one of the all time greats. I was kind of aggressive with my language due to what I felt was a condescending tone coming from the other opinion on this subject......most of the posts got removed (which I completely understand.....the site has rules).

AGAIN.....we aren't saying Stewart is the best ever.....just one of the all time greats. I would say top three but that is open to opinion.

It's frustrating to try and get involved with the threads......especially from a phone

Although I do understand some of Jeffro's point. I think he is looking at championships over race wins. With those statistics....you can see that Stewart should get surpassed in 450 championships (i'm throwing this in so I don't get freaking roasted).
Nothing worth getting worked up over. These guys are trolling because they have a psychological or emotional issue with another man who races dirt bikes that they don't know. I just appreciate the entertainment he's given. Anybody wants to start talking shit on another one of the greats, we can be fanboys of that rider instead.
APLMAN99
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1/19/2017 6:56am
Park Boys wrote:
Your stats are flawed and incorrect, MC entered 175 250SX races alone. Where you came up with 133 is beyond me. Also Roczen has more wins...
Your stats are flawed and incorrect, MC entered 175 250SX races alone. Where you came up with 133 is beyond me. Also Roczen has more wins and less races completed. RC entred 242 races in his career and these are just off the top of my head. Horrible list of misinformation. Also your including regional races entred on a national list but did not include the race wins? I posted shit on here years ago that was accurate so stuff like this did not happen. I included podiums as well.
I corrected the MC stat. I must have been more tired last night than I thought!

Just rechecked the RC starts, it's accurate. Same with the Roczen wins, through the end of 2016. If you need to add 2 starts and 2 wins for him, go ahead.

Yes regional events are in there. That's their whole body of work on the Vault site, all the AMA races entered.
1/19/2017 7:00am
If you guys took all this energy that you are burning here and applied yourselves to something besides moto history you could probabaly solve world hunger.
1/19/2017 7:03am
magoo1982 wrote:
From what his fans on here say, he leads the stats on crash n burns leading to a lot of concussions .. Is that the goal...
From what his fans on here say, he leads the stats on crash n burns leading to a lot of concussions .. Is that the goal of a smart champion racer ???
The guy you used for your screen name has him beat, ironically.
kaptkaos
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1/19/2017 7:08am
Adam43 wrote:
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine. You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable. You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is...
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine.

You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable.

You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is second highest all-time for wins, above everyone save Carmichael by a significant margin.

He is one of just two riders to record a perfect season.

These are also facts.
All the above plus:

He has such a mass following of fans and fanatics for whatever reason, it doesnt matter what the reasons whether it wins or skill on the bike or off track antics, HE HAS THE FANS AND THE HYPE. You cant buy that, you cant deny that. He earned it somehow, someway. When the Stewarts are on the track, its always entertaining. They are either winning, moving up through pack doing some crazy ass riding, or they are wiping out big time in spectacular fashion. Off the track they always provide entertainment, whether its controversy, style, mystery or whatever. Besides all this they have a compelling story, being the only black riders to come up from being poor and reaching the top of the sport. Whoever cant root for this family doesnt know anything about grassroots motocross. They are good people and just like you and I they are not perfect and dont pretend to be.

All I know is that I enjoy MX/SX 100% more with the Stewarts than without it. I know that when they are there, I will be entertained, or I will be passionately upset bc James pulled off or wrecked. I guess they get me emotionally invested whereas no other rider does.

Yeah I love a great race, this past weekend was awesome, but do you think I really care if MCalrath or Hill won the 250 main? I could care less, it was just a great race but I was invested. Same thing with KRoc and Dungey, I am a big fan of both of them, I am a huge Honda Fanboy. I like that KRoc is controversial, but I really dont care about him, he is German he isnt our homegrown product, he isnt James. So yeah I loved the race last weekend, those guys put on a clinic and thank God they did, bc I would still rather watch James come out with a crappy start and cut through the field doing Quads and sick wheel taps and maybe having an epic wipeout or maybe winning. I was also a Bob Hannah fanboy, so there are a lot of similarities.

People love James because no one can do what he does on a bike, he has the best bike skills ever and he took the most risks and rode on the ragged edge 100% and he suffered the price.
APLMAN99
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1/19/2017 7:09am
If you guys took all this energy that you are burning here and applied yourselves to something besides moto history you could probabaly solve world hunger.
I produce food.........
Park Boys
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1/19/2017 7:31am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I corrected the MC stat. I must have been more tired last night than I thought! Just rechecked the RC starts, it's accurate. Same with the...
I corrected the MC stat. I must have been more tired last night than I thought!

Just rechecked the RC starts, it's accurate. Same with the Roczen wins, through the end of 2016. If you need to add 2 starts and 2 wins for him, go ahead.

Yes regional events are in there. That's their whole body of work on the Vault site, all the AMA races entered.
Yes but regional races dont count for national wins... half the competition. So why did you add the regional races entered and not give them credit for the wins? You have RC at 150, what about his 12 125 ESX wins which on your list would give him 162. Same with MC,RV,RD and Roczen. Also you said Roczen had 25 wins coming into the year, he had 26 and now has 28. If your copying MX BOBs list he also has many errors.
Park Boys
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1/19/2017 7:37am
Here are some Bubba stats/info I find crazy.

From his first 250 SX race in 2005 till Seattle 2009 every SX race he did not crash in he won.
A2 2014 was the first time in their 10 years of racing each other that Reed passed Bubba straight up and won without Bubba crashing.

Also Bubba has done the dumbest thing in the history of the sport and that was sit out the 09 450 MX title after having a perfect season and was the fastest MX rider in the world at the time.
matze
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1/19/2017 7:43am
Park Boys wrote:
Here are some Bubba stats/info I find crazy. From his first 250 SX race in 2005 till Seattle 2009 every SX race he did not crash...
Here are some Bubba stats/info I find crazy.

From his first 250 SX race in 2005 till Seattle 2009 every SX race he did not crash in he won.
A2 2014 was the first time in their 10 years of racing each other that Reed passed Bubba straight up and won without Bubba crashing.

Also Bubba has done the dumbest thing in the history of the sport and that was sit out the 09 450 MX title after having a perfect season and was the fastest MX rider in the world at the time.
these are interesting stats!
MX-LIFE.
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1/19/2017 7:45am
Lmao lol how about this James is still on everybody's mind! Still winning!
gsxrcr28
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1/19/2017 7:46am
Park Boys wrote:
Here are some Bubba stats/info I find crazy. From his first 250 SX race in 2005 till Seattle 2009 every SX race he did not crash...
Here are some Bubba stats/info I find crazy.

From his first 250 SX race in 2005 till Seattle 2009 every SX race he did not crash in he won.
A2 2014 was the first time in their 10 years of racing each other that Reed passed Bubba straight up and won without Bubba crashing.

Also Bubba has done the dumbest thing in the history of the sport and that was sit out the 09 450 MX title after having a perfect season and was the fastest MX rider in the world at the time.
One I always found surprising, and I think you posted it a couple years ago (my apologies if it was someone else).
Was out of 32 Supercross races that RC, Bubba and Reed raced against each other Bubba won 16, RC 8 and Reed 4, I'm not sure who won the other 4, or even if it's accurate. If it is, it's surprising.
brimx153
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1/19/2017 7:47am
The one thing that pisses me off , is when the fanboys say he was always fastest on the track . Its such bull . RC handed him his ass 95% of the time outdoors .because he (RC) was faster!!. same in SX .RC was able to match and go faster than JS7 alot more than people remember . there was always this thing that the only way RC could win is if JS fell . There were plenty of time s when RC was straight up faster INDOORS . and sometimes way faster outdoor s
Park Boys
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1/19/2017 7:48am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
One I always found surprising, and I think you posted it a couple years ago (my apologies if it was someone else). Was out of 32...
One I always found surprising, and I think you posted it a couple years ago (my apologies if it was someone else).
Was out of 32 Supercross races that RC, Bubba and Reed raced against each other Bubba won 16, RC 8 and Reed 4, I'm not sure who won the other 4, or even if it's accurate. If it is, it's surprising.
That was me and KW was the only rider to beat all of them at a race and it was the first time they all lined up against each other at A1 2005.
APLMAN99
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1/19/2017 7:49am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I corrected the MC stat. I must have been more tired last night than I thought! Just rechecked the RC starts, it's accurate. Same with the...
I corrected the MC stat. I must have been more tired last night than I thought!

Just rechecked the RC starts, it's accurate. Same with the Roczen wins, through the end of 2016. If you need to add 2 starts and 2 wins for him, go ahead.

Yes regional events are in there. That's their whole body of work on the Vault site, all the AMA races entered.
Park Boys wrote:
Yes but regional races dont count for national wins... half the competition. So why did you add the regional races entered and not give them credit...
Yes but regional races dont count for national wins... half the competition. So why did you add the regional races entered and not give them credit for the wins? You have RC at 150, what about his 12 125 ESX wins which on your list would give him 162. Same with MC,RV,RD and Roczen. Also you said Roczen had 25 wins coming into the year, he had 26 and now has 28. If your copying MX BOBs list he also has many errors.
I did use MX Bob's list and again was tired enough last night that I mistook the 125/250 heading as SX. You are correct, it doesn't include those wins. I doubt that it'll change the overall theme of Stewart being right near the top in win percentage, but I may just go and play around with the numbers some more if I have time later today.

The reason I'd be inclined to include everything is to keep from cherry picking and taking out races where someone didn't race a second moto, crashed early in a SX, etc.

Post a reply to: James Stewart vs everyone else. Just the facts man.

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